Dental Floss May Have No Medical Benefits, Says AP Report

Joe_NoOne quotes a report from Gizmodo: Flossing may not yield the protective benefits we've been told to expect. Since 1979, the federal government in the U.S. has recommended daily flossing, but by law these dietary guidelines, which are updated every five years, have to be supported by scientific evidence. Surprisingly -- and without any notice -- the federal government dropped flossing from its dietary guidelines this year, telling the Associated Press that "the government acknowledged the effectiveness of flossing had never been researched, as required." AP national writer Jeff Donn reports: "The two leading professional groups -- the American Dental Association and the American Academy of Periodontology, for specialists in gum disease and implants -- cited other studies as proof of their claims that flossing prevents buildup of gunk known as plaque, early gum inflammation called gingivitis, and tooth decay. However, most of these studies used outdated methods or tested few people. Some lasted only two weeks, far too brief for a cavity or dental disease to develop. One tested 25 people after only a single use of floss. Such research, like the reviewed studies, focused on warning signs like bleeding and inflammation, barely dealing with gum disease or cavities. Wayne Aldredge, president of the periodontists' group, acknowledged the weak scientific evidence and the brief duration of many studies...Still, he urges his patients to floss to help avoid gum disease. 'It's like building a house and not painting two sides of it,' he said. 'Ultimately those two sides are going to rot away quicker.'"

The house analogy sucks

[fustakrakich]

Mine has aluminum siding.

Re:The house analogy sucks

[I'm New Around Here]

So do some of my teeth.

Re:

[lucm]

yes the analogy sucks and is wrong.

building a house and not painting two sides of it

Warren Buffet made his initial investment in Capital Cities (now ABC) in part because only the front of the head office had been painted, not the back (he likes cheapskates).

Re:

[Grishnakh]

It depends on what your siding is made of. If it's unpainted wood, you're going to have serious problems before long (unless it's certain woods that actually work unpainted as siding, I think cedar is one).

Commercial buildings are usually not made with wood framing and wood siding, unless they're small; usually they're made of things like concrete, brick, etc. Painting concrete is a purely cosmetic step.

Re:

[Grishnakh]

WTF are you talking about? Unpainted concrete is indeed one of the ugliest things on earth, but there's all kinds of rather amazing concrete finishes available on the market now. They can make a boring concrete garage floor look like flagstone now. They're even making concrete countertops, some of which look like real stone. Of course, really nice concrete finishes aren't cheap, but if you're building some big-ass expensive commercial building, it's probably worth it.

Re:

[lucm]

Of course, really nice concrete finishes aren't cheap, but if you're building some big-ass expensive commercial building, it's probably worth it.

unless you want to attract shrewd investors like Warren Buffer. Or unless your business model is to cut costs to deliver rock-bottom prices.

Floss

[31415926535897]

I have lots of experience over the years, (with me), and I've done it every way.

Floss. That's all there is to it. You will have trouble with your gums and with cavities if you don't.

You don't have to floss every day. Once a week is enough. Your dentist won't even be able to tell the difference.

Re:Floss

[Anonymous Coward]

Pretty much this, though I now floss every day. (And I live somewhere where it's not usual.)
In fact, I'd recommend flossing only over brushing only.

I've had a lot of gum and tooth issues at once, and it always was between the teeth. Turns out, the gaps between my teeth got bigger and I had a lot of shit getting stuck there. Now that Ifloss, I haven't had any new issues, but there's some permanent damage.

Anyway, when I remove something that was stuck between my teeth I instantly feel much better.

Re:

[lucm]

Anyway, when I remove something that was stuck between my teeth I instantly feel much better.

Use condoms even for oral sex, that should solve your problem.

Re:

[AmiMoJo]

I have similar issues and found that the best combination was a Panasonic water jet thing and mouthwash.

The water jet thing is like flossing but uses water to get in where it's hard to get string. There are various brands, including the original "Waterpik", but the batteries on the Waterpik die after a year and are non-replaceable. Panasonic do one with an internal battery and one that takes AAs, guess which one I went for.

The Panasonic product like is called "Doltz" in Japan, but presumably they didn't use

Re:

[ChrisMaple]

Waterpik has plugin models.

Generally, you want a model with a low pulse rate, like waterpik provides. A high pulse rate isn't much different from continuous flow; your mouth fills with water much more quickly without cleaning more effectively.

Re:

[AmiMoJo]

The Panasonic one has a low and high speed switch. I prefer wireless I think. Either way, it seems more effective than flossing. The amount of debris it dislodges is quite surprising.

Re: Floss

[Defakto]

This isn't necessarily true. I had a similar conversation with my dentist. He had one client who was a religious floss we and brusher, they have terrible teeth. Multiple root canals, at least 12 fillings. Then there's me. I rarely floss unless I can tell something is stuck, then I do to get it out. The strength of your teeth is mainly genetic and environment. Sadly my son has his mother's teeth and already has problems.

Re:

[NotAPK]

It's a big read [jdentaled.org] but Africa has always had lower rates of caries than other developing nations. However, as my link outlines, this varies regionally within Africa.

The currently accepted wisdom is that Africans have a better genetic predisposition to tooth decay. Locals can grow up on a diet of wild meat and grains, never brush in their life, and have rather stunningly perfect teeth. Here is an article on the genetics of teeth [dentalheroes.com].

This link is not about teeth, but there is a lot about diet that we don't understan [sciencenordic.com]

Re:

[NormalVisual]

This is a common misconception, the "strength" of your teeth has almost nothing to do with your genetics and the environment.

I'm not sure exactly why, whether it's because of a high pH or whatever (never checked it), but I'll turn 50 next year, and I've only gotten one very small cavity in my early 30's that my dentist said didn't really need to be filled but would be good to have taken care of. Otherwise, I seem to have Teeth of Steel (tm). What makes it more interesting is that my dad has had four r

Re:

[sexconker]

And let me guess, your dick is 7" long.

Re:

[bluefoxlucid]

Why not 9? Then you'd have a nine inch nail.

Re:

[NormalVisual]

Beats me, I never measured. My eyesight numbers were from the twice-yearly eye exams and retinal photographs I had to have done in the late 90's/early 00's when I worked for a company that made laser markers/engravers. They could measure down to 20/10 and I could still see the letters clearly, so I don't know exactly how sharp my vision was then.

Re:Floss

[jomama717]

I don't care if there is no evidence of medical benefit, or correlation with cavities/gum disease - those things are intangible. Flossing teeth after just 2-3 days of NOT flossing produces so much gross tangible stuff from between the teeth I still feel a lot better after doing it, no matter what.

I'm going to guess there is no evidence of medical benefit to applying deodorant every day, but FFS please do.

Re:

[KozmoStevnNaut]

> I'm going to guess there is no evidence of medical benefit to applying deodorant every day, but FFS please do

Actually - please FFS don't. Instead eat fruit and veggies as prime nutrient sources, and use a mild soap (and 3 out of 4 days just rinse the less hairy bits). Wear (thin! high thread count!) wool inner layers when possible. Once dermal fauna adjusts, and once the last of the junk food has finished sweating out, most people don't actually smell bad at all - most people have a very very mild scent. But drink cola, eat burgers chips and put butter and cheese on everything, and scrub till skin squeaks so that dermal fauna restart from almost nothing every day, and most people smell pretty atrocious.

There's caveats - some swarthier persons have a stronger scent in particular. Sandalwood goes a long way, but a rinse before and after work seems to work well.

[Citation Needed]

Re:

[MrKaos]

I have lots of experience over the years, (with me), and I've done it every way.

Floss. That's all there is to it. You will have trouble with your gums and with cavities if you don't.

And your breath will be more pleasant. There is nothing worse than talking to someone who's breath makes you want to vomit.

You don't have to floss every day. Once a week is enough. Your dentist won't even be able to tell the difference.

Thank you. I always wondered if flossing once a week was enough, but I see I am not the only one - plus the gum massage feels pretty good. Most of all be true to your teeth and they won't be false to you :)

How to floss regularly

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Floss
2. Smell used floss
3. Be totally grossed out.
4. Floss forever.

Story is a beat up. They didn't say it makes no difference. They just said the research supporting it was old and had poor methodology, possibly because "Big Floss" didn't think "floss research" was worth throwing money at and people have been doing it anyway because it's common sense.

So another clickbait headline which will have AP's media customers rubbing their hands with glee, but misleading and many people will take away the wrong conclusion.

Re:

[The-Ixian]

absolutely this.

There is one spot in the upper left quadrant where I can taste/smell the bacteria pocket getting disturbed if I haven't flossed for a week or more. This is despite twice a day thorough brushing.

I can also tell that my gums are healthier when I am in the flossing habit.

Re:

[dj245]

1. Floss 2. Smell used floss 3. Be totally grossed out. 4. Floss forever. Story is a beat up. They didn't say it makes no difference. They just said the research supporting it was old and had poor methodology, possibly because "Big Floss" didn't think "floss research" was worth throwing money at and people have been doing it anyway because it's common sense. So another clickbait headline which will have AP's media customers rubbing their hands with glee, but misleading and many people will take away the wrong conclusion.

There's a legitimate medical question here. The existing studies are not great and some have conflicting results. I agree that flossing has many benefits (odor being a huge one) but the floss manufacturers make various claims as to the medical benefit which aren't backed up. Yet. Given proper study, medical benefits will probably be shown. There are many different floss materials, different coatings, etc. There are even non-floss floss-type products, like the awful flossing sticks. Some may work bet

Re:

[phantomfive]

You don't have to floss every day. Once a week is enough. Your dentist won't even be able to tell the difference.

That's a really great idea, thanks. (great because for me, it's achievable).

Floss? Better -> interdental brush

[hcs_$reboot]

Floss is part of the past. Go for interdental brush [rdhmag.com].

Re:Floss? Better - interdental brush

[ChrisMaple]

Interesting citation. I find them difficult to use, and a short brush lifespan adds some expense.

Re:

[NormalVisual]

You don't have to floss every day. Once a week is enough. Your dentist won't even be able to tell the difference.

Well, kinda. You have to floss frequently enough such that the plaque that remains after brushing doesn't have enough time to become calculus, because neither brushing or flossing will get that off. Some people can get away with once per week, and others will have to do it more frequently. Plaque can also give you bad breath, so while it might not be strictly necessary to floss often, your

Re:

[pr100]

And there we have it - a double blind clinical trial with a statistically significant result.

Re:

[AmiMoJo]

In some countries restaurants provide toothpicks, and it's socially acceptable to use them in public. Combined with mouthwash I don't think flossing is necessary, and in fact it's probably somewhat inferior to mouthwash in terms of getting in all the nooks and crannies.

Also, charcoal toothpaste is amazing.

Re:

[Big Hairy Ian]

I have lots of experience over the years, (with me), and I've done it every way.

Floss. That's all there is to it. You will have trouble with your gums and with cavities if you don't.

You don't have to floss every day. Once a week is enough. Your dentist won't even be able to tell the difference.

Hardly a clinical trial

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

Whether or not one gets cavities depends heavily upon diet. Cavities are caused by excess carbohydrates, starches and other simple sugars left behind in the mouth after meals. Normally, the populations of bacteria in the mouth are not concentrated enough in any one spot for a long enough period of time to produce enough acid on a regular basis to cause decay of tooth enamel. However, consumption of carbohydrates and the formation of sticky plaques on the teeth provides the perfect growth medium for these ba

Genetics

[stabiesoft]

I had my first cavity around 45, and have only 2 and I'm close to 60. My mother had no cavities until her late 50's. You can have hard teeth (less cavities more gum problems) or soft teeth(more cavities less gum issues). Flossing is great for gum issues. They blew it on this one, having gum problems is very bad for health. Flossing is a no brainer.

Re:

[Grishnakh]

Another factor is that different people are really, really different, and have very different bacteria in their bodies. This is now thought to be the reason some of us are fat and can't lose weight, and others are thin and have no trouble maintaining their weight with little to no exercise (the flora in the gut).

It's the same in the mouth: some people are highly susceptible to cavities, others just aren't, probably because of extremely different bacteria.

We really are not human, in the genetic sense: in re

Re:

[tsotha]

You don't floss to prevent cavities. That's why you brush. The flossing is keep your teeth from rotting below the gum line.

Re:

[rhazz]

Just to add to that: I'm 35, didn't floss at all till late 20's, drink 2 cokes a day or more, only brush my teeth at night. Never had a cavity. I do however have very thin enamel on the tops of my teeth, and it's unclear if that is due to grinding and/or the coke.

I suspect that there are many factors for teeth health, such as diet, hygiene, genes, etc, and certain things like flossing may help certain individuals more than others.

Re:

[JeffAtl]

Flossing has little to do with cavities; it is more about preventing gum disease.

Chronic gum disease leads to pockets at the base of your teeth where the gums have pulled away due to inflammation. Does your dentist take measurements? For a lot of patients that they view as a lost cause, the dentists don't even make a big deal about it. You can check this at home by flossing and seeing if your gums bleed.

Re:

[parkinglot777]

It's the opposite actually. If your teeth are spaced apart you need flossing less. This is why young children don't really need to floss their baby teeth.

Actually the size of the gap does not matter as long as no food can get stuck inside the gap. If food gets stuck in there for a while, it will cause problems to both your teeth and gum (and you will feel it). You could try to get the food out using any method and the method does not need to be flossing. Thus, size of gap between teeth is not the reason to need or not need to floss.

Also, your second sentence is a fallacy and does not support your reasoning because that is not the main or only reason they do

Re:

[budgenator]

It's not the cavities you really have to worry about, those are easy to fix, even interproximal (between teeth). What you have to worry about is the build up of bacterial biofilm called plaque, these bacteria release digestive enzymes that erode first the soft tissues of the gums and later the supporting bone. The body responds to the bacteria by the inflammation process. The inflamed tissue swells up and blood leaks more easily from the capillaries so your immune cells can get to the site of the infection,

Rotting Meat

[labnet]

Fine, don't floss:
but when you have a conversation with me, and you a piece of rotting meat stuck in your mouth for days on end, I'm taking 10 paces back.

Re:

[ADRA]

Yes, there's a good distinction between social etiquetteand a medical association telling us that its good to do so. The government also doesn't say to stand more than a foot or two from someone when you're talking to them, but that's also good etiquette.

Re:

[JeffAtl]

It is impossible for brushing to remove all of the food debris between the teeth. Try flossing after brushing and see if your gums bleed or if you have gunk on the floss.

Mental Breakdown

[dohzer]

Did they study what happens if you have a little bit of orange gunk stuck between your teeth and would have a breakdown if you couldn't use floss to remove it?

In other news...

[jmv]

Apparently there's no medial study that clearly demonstrates that jumping out the window is bad for your health.

Re:

[I'm New Around Here]

My friend Tommy and I studied that health condition when we were nine. The results were published for peer review on his headstone.

I say bullshit

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

I'm not sure that I can buy into the "flossing is useless" argument.

I know when I floss I get all sorts of little bits and pieces of food particles coming out, and having that stuff sitting up in your gums for days or weeks DOES contribute to things like gingivitis and other types of gum disease. And I know for a fact that when I started flossing regularly the condition of my gums improved significantly, and I have the dental records to prove it. Maybe I'm atypical in that regard, but I doubt it.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

They didn't say "flossing is useless". They said flossing hasn't been studied properly, so by law, they are not allowed to put it in the official guidelines.

If I don't floss

[Revek]

My gums will bleed while I brush after a few weeks. if I floss regularly they don't. Good enough for me.

Re:

[sexconker]

Wrong.
They're inflamed and mad at you.
Floss for a few days straight and they won't bleed anymore.

Evidence based medicine

[phantomfive]

Not everything we know comes from randomized, large-scale trials. There are other ways to gain knowledge. This link shows why randomized, large-scale trials are not always the best idea [bmj.com].

Re:

[jdavidb]

Wow, I wish someone had read this when I had two children age 2 and under and the government took all the infant cold and flu medication off the market because there was "no direct evidence" that the medicine helped children that young.

(I still think taking medicine away from babies is one of the most despicable things a person could ever do. How do they sleep at night? Probably better than all the parents with sick children who can barely breathe, I guess.)

Seems like it would be easy to study

[Webmoth]

Just have the study participants floss only half (the same half) of their mouth every day. Monitor their oral health for several years. If flossing makes a significant difference in dental decay, it should become obvious by the differing rate of decay of flossed and unflossed teeth.

It seems to me that this would be a reasonable approach to a study. Aside from flossing, the oral health of each subject should be the same on both sides of the mouth. That means you wouldn't have to account as much for variation

Denal Floss Tycoon

[Required Snark]

Lyrics by Frank Zappa [metrolyrics.com].

I might be movin' to Montana soon

Just to raise me up a crop of Dental Floss

Raisin' it up

Waxin' it down

In a little white box that

I can sell uptown

By myself I wouldn't

Have no boss,

But I'd be raisin' my lonely Dental Floss

Raisin' my lonely Dental Floss

Waxed or unwaxed??

[ve3oat]

I am sure that unwaxed floss is more effective at "cleaning" the surface of the teeth than waxed floss. Waxed floss glides effortlessly over the surface and there is little or no friction. Without friction, how can waxed floss scrape the surface of the tooth?? Any study on the effectiveness of flossing has to distinguish between the use of waxed and unwaxed floss. But try to find unwaxed floss when you need to buy some! Most drugstores sell only waxed floss or keep very little unwaxed floss in stock.

wrong headline

[prefec2]

So the true story is that the claim has not been prooven. This makes the claim not false, it makes it untested and unverified. As the claim still can be tested , it is not a believe. So the ball lies now in the corner of dental floss researchers to evaluate the effect in a real study.

FLOSS

[MancunianMaskMan]

Wot no gnu logo here? https://www.gnu.org/philosophy... [gnu.org]

Oh /. where art thou!

Always thought of flossing to be an American thing

[Deaddy]

Here in Germany flossing is quite uncommon and I know only few persons that even own floss. Dentists also never seem to mention it. However, I do not know how dental health here compares to the one in the US and assume that other factors play a much bigger role then.

Re:

[henni16]

Well, here's a German who flosses daily before going to bed.
Maybe it's because some of my teeth are very close together and there's no chance for a brush to get between them, but I can feel the difference before and after flossing so that l still feel a bit dirty if I just brush without flossing.

What I think makes a way bigger difference than flossing or not: using an electric toothbrush.

Re:

[ChrisMaple]

In some cases the rough spots that shred the floss will get worn off with repeated flossing. YMMV.

Re:

[budgenator]

My teeth are so close together I can't even floss properly - the floss thread disintegrates and gets stuck between my teeth. I use mouthwash instead, which probably does the same time of job even better.

That's an orthodontic problem; a Dentist that doesn't discuss solutions with you about this has a piss poor standard of care.

Re:

[Grishnakh]

Try the "Glide" floss. I have tight contacts too in places which will tear regular floss apart, but the Glide stuff works much better.

Parachutes, too.

[XNormal]

Not just floss. Parachutes, too, suffer from a serious shortage of controlled trials demonstrating their efficacy.

Smith, Gordon CS, and Jill P. Pell. "Parachute use to
prevent death and major trauma related to gravitational challenge:
systematic review of randomised controlled trials."
British Medical Journal 327.7429 (2003): 1459.

Article here. [wisc.edu]

Re:

[ChrisMaple]

Just use extrapolation / induction. Parachutes are not helpful for 10 foot jumps Parachutes are not helpful for 20 foot jumps. Therefor, parachutes are not helpful for jumps greater than 20 feet.

Seemed to work for me

[twosat]

I must say that since I started flossing regularly, I have not had any more big fillings done on my teeth. If you get cavities between your teeth the dentist can't drill a small hole into it from the side and is obliged to make a big filling from the tooth's top surface. I normally only floss every second day, or when I have eaten sugary foods. I think a lot of it could be genetic - people with widely-spaced teeth probably won't get much tooth decay between their teeth.

Flossing can be replaced

[swb]

I have always been a regular brusher but couldn't stand flossing so I didn't, and nearly every dentist I ever used nagged about it constantly.

Due to job changes and ambivalence and dislike of dental practice, I didn't go to the dentist for about 2 years. I had an old filling break, which basically forced me to go the dentist. I figured I probably had several cavities since I typically had at least one every dental visit, so I looked for a dentist who did sedation so I could get them all fixed at once in t

Technically

[jbmartin6]

They dropped the recommendation since the legal requirements for evidence were not met. That's not the same thing as stating flossing has no benefits. Although from some associated stories folks were saying modern toothbrushes were able to clean the same areas as flossing, which implies flossing may once have been useful but no longer useful. For myself, I will keep doing it due to the various bits of food that get stuck here and there. My toothbrush might get them, unless I am not as careful or not paying

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Floss Lobby

[DarthVain]

I suspect the gigantic floss lobby is behind all of this!

Seriously though, update your studies already. Lazy science. Likely the dental associations never bothered because they were never required to.

Also horrible analogy and pretty insulting from a medical point of view. Kinda like saying we have no proof, but think it helps anyway, here I'll site a poor analogy that makes no sense yet give you the impression that you should just take my word for it because I think it is common sense...

Don't need a professional...

[moeinvt]

... to tell me that leaving food to rot between my teeth in a bacteria-rich environment is a dumb idea.

My teeth are very crowded in places and even a thorough 2-minute brushing with an electric toothbrush and a rinse with mouthwash aren't enough to clean out the tight spaces. When my wisdom teeth were coming in, they hurt like hell, so I was avoiding regular flossing around them. Once I finally had them removed, I had a cavity in the spot where one of the wisdom teeth had pressed against the rear molar.

The same can be said for oxygen.

[GrumpySteen]

There's never been a true, randomized large-scale trial of people being deprived of oxygen. Maybe AP national writer Jeff Donn should try going against conventional wisdom and tie a plastic bags firmly in place over his head.

Or maybe... just maybe, the obvious benefits of scraping out the shit that's stuck between your teeth doesn't need to be proven by a large scale trial any more than the benefits of not suffocating.

I never floss...

[smithmc]

...and every six months when I go the dentist for a checkup and cleaning, they tell me "whatever you're doing, keep it up!". So I keep not flossing...

Re:

[AK Marc]

I hate the obvious false equivalencies popular lately,

Note, there is no "proof" that smoking causes cancer in humans. Human trials are unethical, so the proper studies haven't been done. The lack of a proof isn't a proof of the lack, though wording in articles like this seems to indicate people think that way.

Re:

[AK Marc]

So a study of one person, with a 0% confidence is sufficient, so long as the study of one is "reproducible conditions"? That seems pretty weak.

Re:

[I'm New Around Here]

So, you agree that rich white kids never commit crimes either, since their families buy their way out of trouble?

Get a grip. The known facts show that Clinton committed several actions that are covered by US laws. The fact that a political elite wasn't charged, doesn't mean she didn't do far more than a parking infraction.

By the way, what "treason" did Trump do? Since he isn't even in office, and hasn't transferred secrets to (or through negligence, allowed national secrets to be received by) foreign/enemy

Re:

[ChrisMaple]

The item in question is treason, not just crime. You're changing the subject and using that to pretend that Trump is as evil as Clinton.

Re:

[tsotha]

The cattle futures should have sent her to jail thirty years ago. If not the cattle futures, then the Rose Law documents. If not the Rose Law documents, then the Clinton Global Initiative pay-for-play.

Re:

[dwillden]

Director Comey lied and covered for her. Intent is NOT a requirement for failure to protect and mishandling of classified information. Failing to stop classified information from going out over her unclassified civilian internet server is a Felony. Being to stupid to realize that classified information does not go on an unclassified system is a felony, neither has any intent requirement. Both are 10 years per count. Comey stated flat out that there were over 100 emails that had information that was cla

Re:

[ChrisMaple]

Look at the reports more carefully. Hillary Clinton clearly violated the law intentionally multiple times, but the investigating agencies concluded (not their words) that the Clinton omerta would make prosecution unsuccessful.

Re:

[budgenator]

Wrong answer the laws regarding safeguarding classified information does not require intent to be in violation, only neglect. The FBIs finding that "nothing that meets requirements for prosecution" in the current political environment is more an incitement of ubiquitous corruption in the Obama administration than an exoneration of Clinton.

(p) Any person having access to and possession of classified information is responsible for protecting it from persons not authorized access to it, to include securing it

Re:

[GLMDesigns]

He did not call for foreign intervention. He trolled the media. It was an obvious troll. And you still fell for it. Listen to / read the statement. He wasn't calling for Russian involvement.

And, in case it matters I'm not a trump support. In fact I'm a #NeverTrump.

#NeverTrump. #NeverHillary Vote Third Party in 2016 and beyond.

Re:

[dwillden]

Mishandling Classified information most certainly is a crime. Espionage act, USC Title 18 para 739 (f). Nothing left or right wing about it. It's there in the code. Putting classified information on an unclassified network (civilian or government) is a crime. Sending that information via that unclassified network is a crime. I've had a clearance for over 20 years. I put classified information into an email not on the physically separate classified networks (which were not hacked) even once and I go t

Re:

[AK Marc]

The same scandals came out under Reagan, Bush, and other Republicans, and nobody from the right cared. But Hillary does it, and everyone loses their mind.

I put classified information into an email not on the physically separate classified networks (which were not hacked) even once and I go to jail,

I've known people to have done worse. They lost their clearance, sometimes their jobs, but never ended up in jail. I think your CO scared you a little too much. Though, those from military generally don't get it. They are more greatly punished under UCMJ than civilians under the USC.

Again, as I noted, you are confusing the "law" with the actual law

Re:

[dwillden]

It wasn't my CO instilling fear, it was on the job experience and expertese. I was an Army Counterintelligence Agent (MOS 97B then 35L). I investigated such crimes, yes people did get off with lesser punishment but they were brought up on the actual crimes with the potential penalties. Military Lawyers and Judges like plea deals just as much as civilian courts do. I'm not saying she needs to go to jail for 10 years x 100+ classified emails. But she should have been indicted. The crimes are real, and t

Re:

[budgenator]

No a UCMJ matter is something like storing a camo net on top of your shop that's is a classified container in violation of AR 380-5; much less than setting up an unauthorized email server and routinely transmitting classified information through it, both marked and unmarked.

Re:

[AK Marc]

The forms will always make it sound worse than it is. Yes, they use scare tactics. Have you ever seen anyone prosecuted for mishandling? No, or you'd have mentioned it as well. Like I said, scare tactics, but no prosecutions. Not unlike HIPAA. Lots of noise, not too many actual fines or actions.

You are supporting my statements, not contradicting them.

Re:

[Firethorn]

Having had a clearance for just about as long, I worked in the compusec office, and thus was involved in just about every security incident. Even had a case where I wasn't allowed to see the classified information, just assisted in running the checklist.

I never saw anybody go to prison for it, but most cases were obviously not intentional, even if boneheaded.

Re:

[david_thornley]

That's intent to set up an off-site server. That was perfectly legal (the law was changed about a year after Clinton left the State Department). We know that she had such intent, and it doesn't matter. She did not intend classified material to be on her servers, and that's the intent we're concerned about. (Intent doesn't mean intent to do wrong, or intent to break a law. It means intent to do something, and is important when that something is illegal. Petraeus deliberately gave classified material t

Re:

[sexconker]

No, we get it. You feel marvelous after doing both.

Re:

[I'm New Around Here]

I think he means it is difficult because of the uneven surface.

Otherwise, he may have dentures, and also had his scrotum ripped off in a gruesome skateboarding accident (that also explains the 'has no teeth' part).

Re:Typical

[radio4fan]

British dental health is much better than in the US.

British Teeth Aren’t That Bad (American Teeth Are Far Worse) [fivethirtyeight.com]

Which countries' children have the worst teeth? [economist.com]

Re:Typical

[AmiMoJo]

Health wise we do better, but until fairly recently people tend not to worry too much about the cosmetic aspect so their teeth look bad.

I had a brace for some fairly serious overcrowding when I was a child, but once the problem was fixed they lost interest in neatening everything up. I'm kinda tempted to pay to get them fixed now that those invisible braces are available. It's not so much the looks as the getting food suck in them all the bloody time.

Also, I wish my wisdom teeth would stop trying to kill me. Intelligent design my arse.

Re:

[Immerman]

Hey, wisdom teeth are wonderful - you're just supposed to have had a few teeth fall out to make room for them before they arrive.

Re:

[mark_reh]

No, you're supposed to eat food that contains a lot of dirt and sand which will grind away at the other teeth, reducing them so there will be space for the wisdom teeth.

Re:

[Grishnakh]

Maybe that explains their funny accent.

Candidate found for Trump speechwriter

[itsdapead]

And oh you didn't establish using a table saw leads to the presence of sawdust even though it is obvious

NB: Whoosh? A few years ago I'd have assumed this post was a joke, but the way the world is today its hard to be sure, so just in case...

If you'd never seen a table saw before, you'd have no reason to know that it produced sawdust. Fortunately, you just have to saw some wood to see the sawdust spurting out and bingo, you have evidence. Better still, that's reproducible evidence.

Obvious things are only obvious because the evidence is there for the asking.

Unfortunately, you can't watch someone floss the

Re:

[JeffAtl]

Unfortunately, you can't watch someone floss their teeth and see the health benefits happening. You won't know for years

Sure you can. You can examine the gunk that removed by flossing even after brushing. Is having food debris in your mouth and promoting infections a good thing or a bad thing?

Even if a person wants to be obtuse about the above, it only takes a couple of weeks to see objective evidence i.e. gum bleeding reduced or stopped, reduced inflammation and reduction in pocket size.

Re:

[Grishnakh]

If that happens, can't you just take some extra courses, complete the certifications, and become a specialist yourself?

Re:

[JeffAtl]

Fail. The pockets deepen when flossing does not occur but improve when regular flossing is introduced.

To be clear, some pockets are already in such an infected state that flossing can't help and surgery is required.

Re:

[Grishnakh]

The question over mercury amalgam should be moot now. You say it has "poor bio-availability", but that's still non-zero, plus you even admit that the effect of other things on it (like fluoride ions, or perhaps other stuff you might put in your mouth like fruit juices or whatever) aren't completely understood.

So why put something bearing mercury in your mouth at all? 50 years ago, the answer was simple: the alternatives were having cavities, or getting expensive gold fillings. These days, we have resin f