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Medicine

65% of Cancers Caused by Bad Luck, Not Genetics or Environment 180

BarbaraHudson writes The Wall Street Journal and the CBC are reporting that about two-thirds of cancers are caused by random chance. From the WSJ: "The researchers, from the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine in Baltimore, analyzed published scientific papers to identify the number of stem cells, and the rate of stem-cell division, among 31 tissue types, though not for breast and prostate tissue, which they excluded from the analysis. Then they compared the total number of lifetime stem-cell divisions in each tissue against a person's lifetime risk of developing cancer in that tissue in the U.S." The correlation between these parameters suggests that two-thirds of the difference in cancer risk among various tissue types can be blamed on random, or 'stochastic,' mutations in DNA occurring during stem-cell division, and only one-third on hereditary or environmental factors like smoking, the researchers conclude. 'Thus, the stochastic effects of DNA replication appear to be the major contributor to cancer in humans.'" The CBC reports: "The researchers said on Thursday random DNA mutations accumulating in various parts of the body during ordinary cell division are the prime culprits behind many cancer types. They looked at 31 cancer types and found that 22 of them, including leukemia and pancreatic, bone, testicular, ovarian and brain cancer, could be explained largely by these random mutations — essentially biological bad luck. The other nine types, including colorectal cancer, skin cancer known as basal cell carcinoma and smoking-related lung cancer, were more heavily influenced by heredity and environmental factors like risky behavior or exposure to carcinogens. Overall, they attributed 65 percent of cancer incidence to random mutations in genes that can drive cancer growth."
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65% of Cancers Caused by Bad Luck, Not Genetics or Environment

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  • IMPOSSIBLE. (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Capitalist theory requires that everyone is a rational, voluntary actor. The idea that hundreds of millions of people will suffer due to random bad luck renders the whole philosophy inadequate to apply to reality, requiring some sort of mixed economy with bailouts every three decades or so to be workable.

    When I was young, I said to my (Russian) uncle, "Didn't communism fail?" He replied, "Yes, communism failed once, and nobody forgets. Capitalism fails every few years, but people quickly forget. We take fro

    • by sjames ( 1099 )

      Based on the mod, looks like someone got butthurt.

  • actual paper (Score:5, Informative)

    by kharchenko ( 303729 ) on Thursday January 01, 2015 @09:25PM (#48714103)

    Here's a link [sciencemag.org] to the actual paper, and a pretty nice editorial [sciencemag.org] from Science (as opposed to CBC).

  • by Anonymous Coward

    Who'd have thought that random mutation which turned us from a bunch of slime in a puddle to a race capable of space travel could have a downside!
    The human body is a VHS tape being copied over and over and over again. Eventually you get replication errors, one of which could end up being cancerous. It's the price we pay for substantially increasing our lifespan in an extremely short period of time.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      Some animals are much better at suppressing cancer than others. Humans rank as one of the best at this, but other animals do even better.

      This is why rats are poor models for cancer in humans. They have few of our defenses and are severely prone to cancer.

      • It should be noted that the rats used in cancer research were BRED to be especially susceptible to cancer. Because it's a royal pain to raise 1000 rats, of whom only three get the cancer you want to study....
  • by m00sh ( 2538182 ) on Thursday January 01, 2015 @09:37PM (#48714141)
    The summary says,

    The correlation between these parameters suggests that two-thirds of the difference in cancer risk among various tissue types can be blamed on random, or 'stochastic,' mutations in DNA occurring during stem-cell division, and only one-third on hereditary or environmental factors like smoking, the researchers conclude.

    The article says,

    By “chance” Tomasetti meant the roll of the dice that each cell division represents, leaving aside the influence of deleterious genes or environmental factors such as smoking or exposure to radiation.

    The summary says 1/3 has smoking and environmental effects, while the article says the 1/3 doesn't have smoking and environmental effects.

    Lately, slashdot summaries have gotten worse and worse and completely change what is being claimed.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      Yeah, after reading the stupid and misleading summary I couldn't help but think of all the cancer villages within heavy polluted areas over in China.

      What is it random that they're ALL getting cancer?

    • by pepty ( 1976012 )
      The article says:

      Thus, Tomasetti and Vogelstein reasoned, the tissues that host the greatest number of stem cell divisions are those most vulnerable to cancer. When Tomasetti crunched the numbers and compared them with actual cancer statistics, he concluded that this theory explained two-thirds of all cancers.

      • The article says:

        Thus, Tomasetti and Vogelstein reasoned, ...

        The problem with sophistry is that Aristotle himself arrived at the following "facts" through strict reasoning (as opposed to, you know counting or measuring:

        (1) Women have fewer teeth than men
        (2) Men have a higher blood temperature than women
        (3) Men have fewer ribs than women
        (4) Eels don't reproduce, they are spontaneously generated from mud
        (5) The same for flies, lice, oysters, clams... all from inanimate matter. Ruined a lot of science for years.

        An empiricist, he was not. If I am to have an oncologist,

        • by pepty ( 1976012 )

          The problem with sophistry is that Aristotle himself arrived at the following "facts" through strict reasoning (as opposed to, you know counting or measuring:

          Second sentence:

          Tomasetti crunched the numbers and compared them with actual cancer statistics, he concluded that this theory explained two-thirds of all cancers.

          • Second sentence:

            Tomasetti crunched the numbers and compared them with actual cancer statistics, he concluded that this theory explained two-thirds of all cancers.

            That's correlation, not causation. It's bad science.

            • I would take his claim as a hypothesis that requires further experimentation, not as bad science.

              This is how science works. A scientist says, "I have a model that explains these phenomena in a way that agree with real-world data. It makes these predictions. Bring it." Then people collect data and do experiments to verify that the model and its predictions hold. Or, they discover discrepancies and refine that model.

              The author has a model. He feels pretty confident about it. Now the science begins.

            • He's got a model that explains cancer based on faulty cell division. It is causative. He's crunched the numbers and found that his model explains 65% of occurrences of cancer. His model might still be wrong, but a 'correlation is not causation' critique is not applicable here.
        • by SEE ( 7681 )

          The problem with sophistry is that Aristotle himself arrived at the following "facts" through strict reasoning (as opposed to, you know counting or measuring:

          (1) Women have fewer teeth than men

          That's a very common lie about Aristotle, but it's false. The exact quote from Aristotle (On the Parts of Animals: Book III) is:

          âMales have more teeth than females in the case of men, sheep, goats, and swine; in the case of other animals observations have not yet been made.â

          That is, Aristotle did not "reaso

          • That's a nice correction. But you know the meaning of 'lie' I hope.

            • by SEE ( 7681 )

              When people ignorantly repeat a lie, it doesn't cease being a lie; it merely absolves the repeaters of being liars.

    • I am not sure mutations should be tightly linked to cancer. Here's an alternative model: the same set of genes give rise with humans to about 250 different useful 'regimes', which we know as cell types, and which are just different rhythms of the network of genes switching each other on and off.
      If (some) cancers are just bad regimes of the same genes, then not a single mutation is needed. Then it's just another celltype that replicates too much.

      • Look for 'homeobox' and cancer. Of course homeobox expression can itself be influenced by mutations, but I never can tell whether the mutation hypothesis is some default assumption or whether they've got confirmation.

  • by Anonymous Coward

    You may not know all the variables, you may not understand all the variables, we may not for centuries - but in the grand scheme of things, this universe is most likely deterministic.

    Any 'scientist' that claims something is bad 'luck', and NOT environmental - is insane and/or completely lacking in a reasonable understanding of physics and mathematics.

    I imagine what they really mean is it's not 'environmental' in any way that we can control at our scale of being, with our current technology.

    • by Immerman ( 2627577 ) on Thursday January 01, 2015 @10:08PM (#48714241)

      As I recall a great deal of effort has been spent attempting to prove the existence of "hidden variables" in Quantum Mechanics, yet to date virtually all evidence suggests that they do not exist, and that quantum-level events are truly random. What makes you think that future discoveries will fundamentally change that? Do you just not like the idea that there might be some option for choice in your life?

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Kjella ( 173770 )

        I'm with Einstein on this one, "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Let's take your basic double slit [wikipedia.org] interference pattern. Either they have some hidden quantum state which means it's not really the exact same thing or the laws of nature are rewritten at a whim for each photon that's far more absurd. Particularly when we can observe the exact same phenomenon on a macro scale in ripple tanks, if we send waves of water against a slit the size of the wave length

        • It sounds like you are misunderstanding Quantum Mechanics - and that's okay. I believe even Feynman suggested there were at most a handful of people who *really* do. But I think I've got a more secure perch on the shoulder of this giant, so let's see if we can't improve your understanding a bit, shall we?

          > Particularly when we can observe the exact same phenomenon on a macro scale in ripple tanks

          Umm, no we can't actually. We can observe something *analogous* in ripple tanks, but a ripple tank will stil

          • by Kjella ( 173770 )

            We also have a very good understanding of what "wave-height" means, at least in applied terms: the wave-height at a given point is the probability of finding the particle-like manifestation of the quarticle there.

            Quantum mechanics is absurdly weird in more ways I can count, but with regards to having a hidden state and determinism I think I was trying to arrive at the de Broglie-Bohm theory where the universe is in a particular quantum state and there is no more true randomness or free will than in classical physics.

    • The cell itself is an environment, and still far beyond our understanding. So yes, there's no way that we can control this with our current technology.
  • by manu0601 ( 2221348 ) on Thursday January 01, 2015 @09:57PM (#48714203)

    The headline is shocking when one consider the steep rise of cancer since 1945. If it was luck, then how it could change over time?

    But I think the paper could still be a valuable contribution, it is just that this summary ignores the difference between cancer initiation and cancer promotion. Many environmental factors favor existing tumors but do not create them. Hence initiation can be random, while promotion can be environment-induced.

    • by Immerman ( 2627577 ) on Thursday January 01, 2015 @10:13PM (#48714261)

      Indeed. I seem to recall reading something several years ago claiming that the average person develops cancer many times in their life - it's just that most of the time the tumor doesn't survive for long, or never grows beyond microscopic size. It's not the starting that's the problem, it's the conditions that allow it to grow and spread dangerously.

      • Yes, if you consider the conditions required to get a cancer, it seems to be really bad luck:

        • You need a mutation, this is the easy part
        • The mutation must be uncorrectable
        • The mutation must not cause the cell to die
        • The mutation must not cause the cell to express abnormal proteins on its surface that would make it a target for the immune system
        • The mutation must remove the limit on cell division
        • The mutation must unlock fast cell division
        • The mutation must cause the cell to send messages so that blood vessel
        • by stoploss ( 2842505 ) on Friday January 02, 2015 @08:02AM (#48715817)

          You seem to misunderstand: cancer requires more than a single mutation. At a bare minimum cancer needs a protooncogene mutation, and then typically also requires Knudson two-hit on at least one of the tumor suppressor genes. That, together, gets cancer started.

          The angiogenesis and metastasis mutations (among others) happen later due to natural selection. Cancer is just evolution.

          To restate: I have never heard of a single DNA point mutation from wild type that can cause cancer. Multiple mutations of specific types are required. The odds of this happening are increased because most adult cells are on "pause" in the cell cycle, so mutations can accumulate without causing immediate triggering of apoptosis.

      • I think you're talking about angiogenisis. http://www.ted.com/talks/willi... [ted.com]

        • That's only one of the contributing factors - yes, a cancer that never triggers angiogenesis is unlikely to become an issue, but that's only one of the factors that contributes to a cancer becoming life-threatening, and is not sufficient on it's own. It's probably not strictly necessary either - after all a cancer could form in tissue that's already rich in blood vessels.

    • by Anonymous Coward
      Improvement of the treatment of other conditions and improved healthcare will lead to increasing cancer. We will all die from something, and if you remove some of those possible causes of death, the incidence of other causes will increase, especially the ones that correlate with age/cumulative effects.
    • by x0ra ( 1249540 ) on Thursday January 01, 2015 @11:11PM (#48714413)
      The world population almost doubled since 1940 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population), not to mention our capacity to detect smaller and smaller tumors made the number explode. Before, people were dying, not they're dying from a diagnosed X or Y reasons. Not to mention our lifespan increased, which increased the likelihood of our body's to go AWOL.
    • Context matters (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Okian Warrior ( 537106 ) on Thursday January 01, 2015 @11:45PM (#48714523) Homepage Journal

      The headline is shocking when one consider the steep rise of cancer since 1945. If it was luck, then how it could change over time?

      You're forgetting the context in which the study was made.

      By assigning most cancer to random chance, they are laying the groundwork for the defense against future lawsuits for negligence and compensation against corporations. Companies will pour money into shouting these results as widely and loudly as possible, it will become a public meme, and the populist mantra will be "I got cancer, but it was just bad luck" for decades.

      This is similar to the recent history of the tobacco industry, it took over 50 years to sort that out and the damage hasn't yet settled.

      Expect this report to be wildly popular for the next few years.

      • by Anonymous Coward

        they are laying the groundwork for the defense against future lawsuits for negligence and compensation against corporations.

        This isn't laying any groundwork that isn't already there. Cancer is already known to have many possible sources, including many environmental sources, even if the environmental sources versus background rate wasn't quantified as well before. It was already quite difficult to take a specific example of cancer and point to a specific cause with certainty. This research doesn't change any of the previous research that certain things can quantitatively increase cancer rates. The burden on getting company's

    • by Njorthbiatr ( 3776975 ) on Friday January 02, 2015 @12:13AM (#48714629)

      The rise of cancer is related specifically to the rise of life expectancy.

      Live long enough and cancer will kill you; it's the primary obstacle in immortality.

      • by delt0r ( 999393 )
        Err aging is a fairly big one as well. Our bodies are simply not programmed to live forever. I however intend to live forever or die trying. This would require some pretty fantastic breakthroughs in the next few decades.
        • Many of the mechanisms that cause aging are anti-cancer, such as shortening telomeres. Disable telomerase (which lengthens telomeres) and you'd be immune to cancer but only live a decade. Permanently switch telomerase on and your cell lines could live forever but you'd have disabled an important anti-cancer function. Maybe if you turned up your killer T cell activity, but then those will make you age by inducing apoptosis in your tissues... and so you see, since cancer is malfunctioning pieces of you, th
          • by delt0r ( 999393 )
            I am currently working in biology and mutations and stuff in particular. I am quite aware of the challenges, hence the comment on "some pretty fantastic breakthroughs", the next few decades because i am not getting any younger :D.

            However from a purely information perspective, that is how good can we theoretically replicated cells etc, being effectively ageless is quite possible. Theoretically. (aka Shannon's information capacity of a noisy channel). But alas i doubt such deployments are going to be aroun
        • I think aging is a more easily solvable problem. 3D printed organs using your own DNA could replace sick ones. We can sequence out your DNA when you're young as a master copy and then constantly revert your body to it using viral vectors and introduction through stem cells.

          I'd imagine the only real problem we're going to have is with maintaining the brain.

          • by delt0r ( 999393 )
            Not really, since organ failure is not the problem, at least for healthy people (I am). It is *everything* just winding down. Tissues just lose there ability to regenerate. A good example is bone tissue, as we all probably know people that are shrinking with age once old enough.
    • by dbIII ( 701233 )

      If it was luck, then how it could change over time?

      Antibiotics for one thing.
      Less people have died from infection so something else has to make up that 100%.
      Hence a reduced proportion of deaths from TB etc and a higher preportion from cancer.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      The headline is shocking when one consider the steep rise of cancer since 1945. If it was luck, then how it could change over time?

      But I think the paper could still be a valuable contribution, it is just that this summary ignores the difference between cancer initiation and cancer promotion. Many environmental factors favor existing tumors but do not create them. Hence initiation can be random, while promotion can be environment-induced.

      The headline is highly misleading. It should read '65% of Cancers Types Caused by Bad Luck, Not Genetics or Environment'. This means the steep rise of cancer can be attributed to the 33% types that now take a larger share and depend on environmental or genetic factors. You need really careful with omitted words as people want to see and hear what they want and not what you want to converse. I guess a lot of don't regulate us, let's pollute and save money guys will soon join the bandwaggon.

      • The headline is highly misleading. It should read '65% of Cancers Types Caused by Bad Luck, Not Genetics or Environment'. This means the steep rise of cancer can be attributed to the 33% types that now take a larger share and depend on environmental or genetic factors. You need really careful with omitted words as people want to see and hear what they want and not what you want to converse. I guess a lot of don't regulate us, let's pollute and save money guys will soon join the bandwaggon.

        Indeed, let me rephrase. No wait, let me sum up.
        Remove the two largest types of cancer, breast and prostate, from the analysis. Then apply the remaining "types" of cancer, and state that 65% of those are not attributable to known factors. This is a "study" in hijinx that no one should read. People are pointing fingers at /. but it was initially picked up at WSJ - which should never be posting such muck.

        Instead of getting lost in the fear factor of this thing, look at it this way. Percentage of total re

    • by kinko ( 82040 )

      The headline is shocking when one consider the steep rise of cancer since 1945. If it was luck, then how it could change over time?

      we need to be careful that we are comparing apples with apples when comparing cancer rates between different countries or time periods. We have higher rates of people reaching their 70s and 80s now. And in addition to increased longevity, we also (in developed countries at least) have a higher proportion of our populations being older.

      This is why we use an "age standardised cancer incidence" rate, to account for differences in the population makeup.

      I'm not sure if the age-adjusted rate is much difference be

    • by itzly ( 3699663 )
      Or in other words: causes of death that aren't related to bad luck have been dropping. Since the total death rate remains at 100%, bad luck related causes must be taking up the slack.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 01, 2015 @10:02PM (#48714221)

    Leave out the top two, by far the most common, and the remaining top two are still predominantly hereditary and or environmental.
    From: http://apps.nccd.cdc.gov/uscs/toptencancers.aspx

    Top 10 Cancer Sites: 2011, Male and Female, United States Rates per 100,000

    1. Prostate 128.3
    2. Female Breast 122.0
    3. Lung and Bronchus 61.0
    4. Colon and Rectum 39.9

    then a big drop in numbers before you see
    5. Corpus and Uterus, NOS 25.4 ...

    Me thinks somebody is playing funny buggers with the numbers to get some funding for their particular line of research, while undermining the preventative medicine message at the same time. Evil.

    • Re: (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Prostate cancer is just a disease because it only affects a lesser/non-protected class: MEN
      Breast cancer affects mostly a PROTECTED CLASS: WOMEN

      Pink Ribbons everywhere. Prostate cancer ribbons? Who the fsck know what color(s) they might be.

  • Tripe.. (Score:4, Informative)

    by Rigel47 ( 2991727 ) on Thursday January 01, 2015 @10:10PM (#48714247)
    Sure, anyone can get cancer no matter how healthily they live. But modern medicine is so absurdly and willfully blind to the role of nutrition that these conclusions can be largely dismissed by anyone who thinks for themselves.

    Oh, hey, trace arsenic [berkeley.edu] cuts breast cancer by FIFTY PERCENT.

    What's that? Lithium in drinking water [nih.gov] is also associated with a host of benefits? Say it ain't so..

    Gee, getting some sunshine / vitamin D [vitamindcouncil.org]can lower risk of pancreatic cancer??

    I could go on and on but what would be the point.. supplementation and the like is at best psuedo-science in the eyes of western medicine.. it's much more profitable to engage in "sick care" than to actually equip our bodies with the things it needs at some single percent of the cost.
  • to make this study possible. enough numbers over enough time, and we'll determine that life causes death.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 01, 2015 @11:00PM (#48714385)

    I must believe that when people get cancer, it is solely due to a personal failing, like smoking, poor diet, lack of exercise, drug use or obesity. Then I can blame them personally and feel good knowing that it can't happen to me because I don't commit any of those vices. Nor should society, aka me, have to pay for their cancer through higher insurance rates or government taxes because cancer patients are simply reaping what they have sown! The made the wrong heath choices, they should face the consequences.

  • We seem to have accelerated evolution. I suspect that species that have changed little over millions of years probably have little to no cancer risk.
  • by chromaexcursion ( 2047080 ) on Friday January 02, 2015 @01:51AM (#48714927)
    It's 2/3 of all types of cancer, are random. Not 2/3 of all cases of cancer (excluding the most common ones).
    bogus math. pointless conclusion.

    There are lies
    Damn lies
    Then there are statistics
    • by delt0r ( 999393 )
      The conclusion is not pointless. If you want to do proper risk analisis of something you need to know the facts. The base rate of cancer outside genetic and environmental effects is a pretty important data point.
  • Ban chance!

  • This is good news. Now we know the underlying cause for 65% of cancers, Big Pharma can start the necessary research on creating a drug to prevent Bad Luck.

    I'm sure any viable drug would be a best seller (for those lucky enough to be able to afford it).
  • by ledow ( 319597 ) on Friday January 02, 2015 @07:59AM (#48715805) Homepage

    Of course... if you read it at proper news outlets, they might be able to get a headline with some semblance of truth in it:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/heal... [bbc.co.uk]

    Most cancer TYPES 'just bad luck'

    Most TYPES of cancer can simply be put down to bad luck rather than risk factors such as smoking, a study suggests. 338

  • They essentially rediscovered evolution--how random mutations result in "luck" against survival in the current environment.
    The most telling point in the article was when they said the rate of colon cancer was 4 times the rate of small intestine cancer, and that exactly matches their differing rates of stem cell divisions overall. They did note that certain cancers such as lung cancer and skin cancer had environmental effects and that there were also general inheritance effects from your genes (who'da thunk
  • I would have liked to see the study also exclude smoking.

    If the number is as high as 65% including the smoking, I would think that after removing that it would be way higher - like on the order of 80% or more.

  • The tobacco companies made the point for decades that smoking does not cause cancer. As a simple sentence it is true. The proof is that not all smokers get cancer. The better truth is that some cancer in smokers is caused by smoking tobacco. The potential victims of destruction sort of know this by instinct and it is all too easy to think that I am a good person, people like me and god loves me so smoking can not give me cancer. That is a foolish view. but it is very hard to get thropugh that litt

Saliva causes cancer, but only if swallowed in small amounts over a long period of time. -- George Carlin

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