Forensic Test Predicts Eye and Hair Color From DNA 73
An anonymous reader writes "A forensic test that has been developed to help police nab perpetrators of crimes can predict a suspect's eye color, hair color, and ethnic origin. The test's ability and the science behind it has been outlined in Forensic Science International: Genetics (abstract). Developed by Susan Walsh and other researchers from the Netherlands, Greece, and Poland, the test uses phenotypes from DNA to ... predict a suspect's appearance using 'low amounts of template DNA, as well as degraded DNA,' which means that the DNA does not need to be perfect in order for the system to read it."
Re:Abortions ahoy! (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, actually people may misuse this in a different way. Cosmetic abortions: aborting because the DNA in your baby seems to indicate it will grow up to be an ugly person.
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What, gingers make you feel inferior?
No he's worried about the ginger postman who waved to his wife the other day,
We swear your honor... (Score:5, Funny)
Later, in the jury room... DNA is always right.. GUILTY!!!
Re:We swear your honor... (Score:4, Interesting)
The OJ verdict disagrees with that line of thought
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If the glove doesn't fit you must acquit!
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OJ will get zero
'Cause he was a hero
Who carried a ball
In September through fall
Entertaining the twit
Who will vote to acquit!
- The Capitol Steps
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Interestingly enough, at the time his defense lawyers actually tried to make the claim that perhaps some of OJ's DNA could have wafted from the test tube with his blood into the other tube containing the crime evidence. I guess the public was so new to the idea of DNA that some thought it possible.
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There's not much "science" in forensic science. You'll be hard pressed to find a single peer reviewed study that shows finger prints to be a valid means of identification (at least of the sort used in forensics where only a few points need to line up).
Re:We swear your honor... (Score:4, Insightful)
You'll be hard pressed to find a single peer reviewed study that shows finger prints to be a valid means of identification
challenge accepted
http://lpr.oxfordjournals.org/content/7/2/87.short [oxfordjournals.org]
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You're right.
Not to mention that it is possible to wear fake fingertips that give you somebody else's fingerprints ...
Also a problem with degraded DNA: if you find some DNA at the crime scene that codes for a person with blue eyes, that doesn't mean the blue-eyed DNA is related to the suspect, just that somebody with blue eyes had been there some time in the past ...
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To be fair, hair clippings wouldn't provide DNA and it would become quite obvious that they were planted when every hair found at the crime scene was found to be snipped rather than pulled/fallen out.
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To be fair, hair clippings wouldn't provide DNA and it would become quite obvious that they were planted when every hair found at the crime scene was found to be snipped rather than pulled/fallen out.
You obviously haven't been to my hair salon!
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"Not to mention that it is possible to wear fake fingertips that give you somebody else's fingerprints ..."
This is why I also carry a vial of my ex's DNA when I'm doing crimes.
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So you walk around with a turkey baster filled with his semen, just waiting for the opportunity to use it?
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On the other hand, if said DNA comes from fresh blood at the crime scene, or semen, or skin flakes under the victim's nails, or [etc, etc, etc]. There are plenty of times when you can say, if not for certainty, then at least beyond a reasonable doubt, that the DNA came from the perpetrator (or at the very, very least, a witness).
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Except now they can use a fingerprint database search to build their list of likely suspects.
So what?
Prints found on the murder weapon point to the most likely suspects.
Why would you have them look elsewhere than at the most likely suspects?
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It does not show that no two people in the world have the same fingerprints
Would you require proof that there's no teapot orbiting the Earth before you'll accept that it's probably not there?
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Would you require proof that there's no teapot orbiting the Earth before you'll accept that it's probably not there?
If the Chinese have a manned space program, you can be sure there's a teapot orbiting the Earth.
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You'll be hard pressed to find a single peer reviewed study that shows finger prints to be a valid means of identification
challenge accepted
http://lpr.oxfordjournals.org/content/7/2/87.short [oxfordjournals.org]
Counter example: [pbs.org]
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So the question is, if the tests say he has blue eyes, but he actually has brown, can that be used as evidence in his defense?
Once you catch the suspect, you can run a full DNA match. This test will only tell you how does the suspect *probably* look like. It can probably miss those features that depend on multiple genes or perhaps are influenced by some other factors or conditions, but this is for manhunts, not for the court room.
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So the question is, if the tests say he has blue eyes, but he actually has brown, can that be used as evidence in his defense?
Once you catch the suspect, you can run a full DNA match. This test will only tell you how does the suspect *probably* look like. It can probably miss those features that depend on multiple genes or perhaps are influenced by some other factors or conditions, but this is for manhunts, not for the court room.
If you think it won't be used in the courtroom by overzealous prosecutors and police, with paid forensic 'scientists' to spout out 'scientific' reasons the results are right to confuse the jury, I have some prime tropical real estate for sail in Nova Scotia.
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Ahem: http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2011/04/18/1018707108 [pnas.org]. First result on Google. Short version: false positives at a .1% rate, false negatives at 7.5%, independent review caught every single one. I'd say that is reasonably accurate.
There is a ton of science in forensic science. Obviously, it is not 100% nor is it "hard" science where you can get 99.9995% confidence using a thousand or more trials for each match like you can in, say, physics. That is why you have a trial, and "beyond reasonable doubt"
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Yes, I think this would probably be impeachable in a trial if used as actual evidence. A prosecutor may well try to get it in, if they wanted to try and play to the CSI Effect, but I don't think it would stick.
However, if it is only used to locate a subject who can then be more completely tested and investigated, there is no need for this process to appear in trial.
Of course, it might enter the legal system if it is used as probable cause to get a warrant for a search or some other investigative purpose.
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The phrase "grisly science" have never had so many meanings
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The DNA doesn't lie! Sure it was degraded and we had to amplify and replicate degraded copies.. but it said the rapist would have brown hair and blue eyes.. and look.. does the suspect not have brown hair and blue eyes?
Later, in the jury room... DNA is always right.. GUILTY!!!
Worse, he resembles the CGI rendering. A lot of talented forensic artists will be seeking employment elsewhere in a few years.
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Or was it brown eyes and blue/orange hair?
Nope (Score:2)
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Is this a joke? Have you never seen the red/blonde haired blue/green/grey eyed people in northern South Asia? Or the blonde Aborigines? Or black people with blue eyes? The iconic ancient painting of (maybe) Tocharians with red hair and blue eyes? Sure, the diversity increases in (northern) Europe, but it assuredly exists elsewhere (the Nazis had problems explaining it).
Surely you have heard of recessive genes, and the decreasing chance of being Black or Asian and having blue eyes.
Without a blue eyed person in the family tree of BOTH parents your chance of having blue eyes is slim to none.
Try here for a simplistic (but still pretty good) explanation [thetech.org].
It turns out its not quite as simple as that because eye color is not controlled strictly by one gene, and there are more than one path to blue eyes [cosmosmagazine.com] (and all of them are recessive genes).
There are rare mutations that can sponta
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As you're indicating, they don't actually mean "ethnic origins".
Ethnicity means culture; it's non-biological and totally orthogonal to what they're talking about, but they don't want to use the discredited word "race".
A good excuse for police ethnic profiling (Score:2)
Police Commissioner: "Our officers are NOT stopping and checking people because of their ethnic background. Our officers stop and check based on the DNA of the people. It's all scientificously based."
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In other words, they now have another good reason to do something that they already had a good reason to do in the first place.
Hair coloring (Score:2)
I guess hair colouring and coloured contact lenses will be getting more popular for criminals ...
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That'll make it much more easy to detect aspiring criminals ...
Sure, because no non-criminal colours his hair ...
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If this is true, the people I know must make up one heck of a screwed up sample because it is not what I see when I look around those I interact with on a regular basis.
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the people I know must make up one heck of a screwed up sample
That by itself is probably true for 99% of people in the world. I don't currently know anyone who isn't caucasian.
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Yes, you caught us. I'm doing my part in trying to 'genocide' you. Due to hatred and jealousy, I married a blue eyed woman, and am thus doing my part in insuring that there are fewer blue eyed people in the next generation.
It runs in the family - my father was also led by hatred and jealousy to marry my green eyed mother. I wonder whether this means that I carry the hated genes myself... I better go and drown myself... in beer.
Ethnic Origin? (Score:1)
Predict? (Score:2)
Crown Fried Chciken (Score:1)
I doubt it! NPR's Radio Lab had spoke on this recently. The best science can do is predict probability. Likelihood your nose, iris, cheekbones will look like X rather than Y.