Taking Showers Can Be Harmful To Your Health 431
TheClockworkSoul writes "According to both the BBC and NewScientist, showering may be bad for your health. Apparently, dirty shower heads can be an ideal breeding ground for Mycobacterium avium, a bug responsible for a type of pulmonary disease more prevalent than tuberculosis in developed countries, cases of which have risen in parallel with the rise in showering. Tests revealed nearly a third of devices harbor significant levels of the critter."
does CLR kill it? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:does CLR kill it? (Score:4, Interesting)
tinfoil hat warning: this is just a new conspiracy from bathtub makers and water suppliers to make us take immersion baths.
Re:does CLR kill it? (Score:5, Funny)
Jerry: Hey, you're not giving it to me, man. What's wrong?
Kramer: I just took a bath, Jerry. A bath?
Jerry: No good?
Kramer: It's disgusting. I'm sitting there in a tepid pool of my own filth.
All kinds of microscopic parasites and organisms having sex all around me.
http://www.seinfeldscripts.com/TheShowerhead.htm [seinfeldscripts.com]
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
On the other hand, it kinda defeats the purpose of taking a shower to use a dirty shower head. Except if you take someone else there with you.
Re:does CLR kill it? (Score:5, Informative)
In any case, a simple change of habit to simply turn the water on and wait outside of the shower stall for 60 seconds.
Simple Enough Solution (Score:5, Funny)
This problem of the dirty shower head is easily solved by my approach. Instead of hooking up to a city water tap, I just had a giant tank of bactine installed that I use instead. Best part: no soap required, just a wire brush and a brillo pad and you're in and out as fast as you can say, Where'd all my skin go?
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:does CLR kill it? (Score:5, Funny)
What I've done to protect myself against this terrifying bacteria is to actively encourage the growth of black mold in my shower, which suppresses bacteria growth.
This has a lot of benefits:
1. Chinks in the grout between tiles are filled automagically with an attractive black growth.
2. I never have to clean hard-to-reach areas, since this is where the mold grows best.
3. My shower is now cute and cuddly due to the "furry" coating on exposed surfaces. It's like a panda bear, except without the bamboo and pointy teeth!
Re: (Score:2)
You must be single. Back in the day I had to choose between my friends in the shower or my ability to keep getting laid. It wasn't a hard decision ;)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
You must be single. Back in the day I had to choose between my friends in the shower or my ability to keep getting laid. It wasn't a hard decision ;)
...the mistake here is not having your girlfriend be one of the "friends in the shower". If you find one that's into "group activities" you won't have this issue.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:does CLR kill it? (Score:5, Funny)
Back in the day I had to choose between my friends in the shower or my ability to keep getting laid. It wasn't a hard decision ;)
So, enough suspense already! Which one did you pick?
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
He's posting on Slashdot. Is it really a mystery?
Re:does CLR kill it? (Score:5, Funny)
I think it's obvious; he's on slashdot, after all.
Re:does CLR kill it? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:does CLR kill it? (Score:5, Insightful)
And when you DO unscrew the shower head you will find......
NOTHING!
Because this story is largely BULL. You can stick a swab just about anywhere and find SOMETHING to sensationalize.
But having done more than my share of plumbing I can tell you shower heads are as clean on the inside the day you replace them as they were the day you installed them.
You might find calcium deposits. But then thats also in your tap where you get water to drink or cook.
Could you possibly find some bacteria? Probably, especially if you live where water is not chlorinated.
But is there enough to make you sick?
Well lets think about that for a second: If this bacteria could be washed out of the shower head onto you, then simply running the shower for a minute before you step in would solve the problem.
And, don't we all do this anyway?
Tempest. Teapot.
Re:does CLR kill it? (Score:5, Funny)
No doubt. Forget how dirty the shower head is. Try swabbing a human. Yucky people.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:does CLR kill it? (Score:5, Funny)
Or is that the Army approach?
Re:does CLR kill it? (Score:4, Interesting)
Since the water that goes through that tube is clean, and the tube was (probably) clean when you got it, what exactly is this mold eating?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:does CLR kill it? (Score:4, Funny)
Friends don't let friends use the CLR, excessive usage can leave you infected with Mono!
Sensationalism (Score:5, Informative)
Taking showers 'can make you ill'
Showering may be bad for your health, say US scientists
OMG! OMG! Wait, the article goes on to say:
"These bacteria [â¦] rarely cause disease in healthy people. Further work will need to look at whether finding these organisms is associated with any increased risk of infection."
Thanks, BBC.
Re:Sensationalism (Score:5, Funny)
As the wonderful Daily Mash [thedailymash.co.uk] points out;
"Nevertheless it is better to carry the heady stench of the Gaul than expose yourself to the sort of tiny risks that generate gigantic headlines."
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Sensationalism (Score:4, Informative)
and the article glosses over that MOST water supplies in the USA are so heavily chlorinated, that the chance of this happening are nearly ZERO.
So if you have well water, you're hosed.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Sensationalism (Score:5, Informative)
and the article glosses over that MOST water supplies in the USA are so heavily chlorinated, that the chance of this happening are nearly ZERO.
Au contraire. Truth is not arrived at by listening to the voices in your head,* but by rigorous scientific study. For example, let's have a look at Chlorine Susceptibility of Mycobacterium avium [nih.gov] and Effect of Growth in Biofilms on Chlorine Susceptibility of Mycobacterium avium and Mycobacterium intracellulare [asm.org], two entirely independent studies.
It would appear that those published, peer-reviewed studies disagree with you. In particular, a quote from the former:
. . . M. avium has been isolated from a variety of sources, including municipal drinking water systems . . .
Whether M. avium is worth any worry is up for debate. Whether it exists in our water supplies is not. It probably isn't a great cause for concern, although it's nice to know that it's being looked into with more thoroughness than someone waving vaguely and going "naaaaah".
* Which I assume also whisper to you that the best way to denote emphasis is by capitalizing words in their entirety. They're wrong about that, too.
Re:Sensationalism (Score:5, Informative)
Uh no. Chlorine is not as effective on that bacteria, and actually that's why it and not other bacteria that tends to be there :).
See: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/15/health/15shower.html [nytimes.com]
"M. avium tends to be a particular problem in municipal water supplies, Dr. Pace said. The reason is that cities treat their water with chlorine, a poison that kills most bacteria but gives avium a selective advantage."
Re:Sensationalism (Score:5, Insightful)
I seriously don't think there's any amount of filth and nasty that can ever approach my keyboard... except maybe my mouse.
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I like taking showers. I find them Both Relaxing and Invigorating.
Study funded by? (Score:2)
Who would have guessed? (Score:5, Funny)
I guess a couple of co-workers are actually just taking good care of their health. I'm pretty sure one of them doesn't come anywhere near this bacterium more than twice a year.
Re:Who would have guessed? (Score:5, Funny)
And if the bacterium accidentally finds itself on the aforementioned co-workers' skin, they wouldn't be able to establish a beachhead against the aggressive pre-existing community already there.
We're all microbiomes; some of us are just more... lush.
Secretly, some geeks knew... (Score:3, Funny)
Secretly, some geeks knew this all along, hiding from the masses the real reasons they didn't shower. Now their cover is blown!
oh great (Score:4, Funny)
Gentlemen, start your start-ups (Score:3, Insightful)
Creation of showerhead disinfection industry in 3...2...1...
Re:Gentlemen, start your start-ups (Score:5, Funny)
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The telcos are way ahead in this field, they've had telephone sanitisers for years.
Note to self: Better get started on that B Ark... So when's the giant space goat coming to eat us again?
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Creation of showerhead disinfection industry in 3...2...1...
Umm, it's called Clorox.
Re:Gentlemen, start your start-ups (Score:4, Funny)
spray alcohol through the nozzels after every shower
Forget after, how about during?
Ahh sweet vindication (Score:5, Funny)
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A new study today found that eating two large bags of Doritos a day increases the profits of Frito-Lay.
hmmm (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:hmmm (Score:5, Informative)
That doesn't kill germs. It just helps remove them from your skin.
Besides the concern for pulmonary disease is that you inhale water droplets with these germs inside them. I highly doubt that you use soap + hot water + friction inside your lungs (but if you do, you're more of a man than I).
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I highly doubt that you use soap + hot water + friction inside your lungs (but if you do, you're more of a man than I).
Weed kills these bugs and prevents lung cancer. I read it on www.good-skunk-is-a-humanright.co.uk
Re:hmmm (Score:5, Insightful)
From the (somewhat incomplete) information in TFA, I think you're right that running the water before stepping in helps. Not sure about whether the fact you're taking a shower at the time matters, as the concern is inhaled bacteria.
It also seems that metal shower heads are not as bad as plastic.
Oh, and the bacteria in question are opportunistic - healthy people rarely get sick from them. So maybe it makes sense to give small children more baths than showers (which is what my family always did when I was growing up anyway); to consider taking baths when sick; and to consider what this implies for care of the elderly.
Other than that, this just seems a bit over-hyped. (Not seeing what the comparison to TB adds to the story beyond sensationalism, for example.)
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err, not always :
"Showers have also been identified as a route for spreading other infectious diseases, including a type of pneumonia called Legionnaires' disease and chest infections with a bacterium called Pseudomonas aeruginosa."
However the headline should be:
"Showering with dirty shower heads may be bad for your health."
Re: (Score:2)
Probably removing and dipping the shower head in some bleach every now and then will also help.
Oligodynamic effect (Score:5, Informative)
Flamebait? (Score:4, Funny)
If you think that the above is flamebait then you are a hippie who needs to take a shower. I am from Santa Cruz and may use the word hippie as much as I want because people all over the world automatically think I am one. I do exhibit many of the characteristics; I do, however, shower.
If you were offended by my frequent overuse of the word hippie, you'll hate these jokes even more:
Q: How do you hide money from a hippie?
A: Hide it under the soap.
Q: How do you know a hippie has been on your couch?
A: They're still there!
Now grow up, and allow your sense of humor to drop out of the cavity it's hiding in.
Re: (Score:2)
Nothing to see here, move along... (Score:5, Insightful)
Germs are EVERYWHERE. Hospitals do all kinds of disinfection that you wouldn't and couldn't do in your own home, and people still get staph infections.
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Germs are EVERYWHERE. Hospitals do all kinds of disinfection that you wouldn't and couldn't do in your own home, and people still get staph infections.
While true there are germs everywhere, this is actually a tad more than nothing. First, this isn't a generic brand germ, it's a pretty well-known lung pathogen (a weakling cousin of TB, actually). Second, it seems to like forming biofilms inside shower heads, so the water that comes out has two orders of magnitude more critters than your average point in "everywhere".
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Many hospital staph infections are due to the over-sanitation of surfaces. Bacteria will become largely immune to many disinfectants and become "super bugs"; additionally, it will latch onto the hosts due to it being a much more receptive surface than something which has been disinfected.
Re:Nothing to see here, move along... (Score:5, Informative)
Not true. You're thinking of antibiotic resistance. Disinfectants usually physically break apart the bacteria and the common methods of antibiotic resistance don't protect against this. The main cause of staph infections is by people not washing their hands.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes, but think of how terrible it will be if bacteria ever do develop resistance to those disinfectants.
Terrible, but unlikely. Disinfectants are very powerful substances and/or processes. It'd be a bit like you developing cellular immunity to being chopped apart with a chainsaw.
Re:Nothing to see here, move along... (Score:5, Informative)
Arguably people get staph infections in hospitals because hospitals put so much effort into sterilizing every little thing. It leaves the hardiest, and fastest spreading bacteria and viruses to fill the vacuum rather than the millions of common germs that our body knows how to deal with. They've done studies which show a less rigorous sterilization regiment can actually reduce the rate of infections but the whole 'germs are evil' mindset prevents hospitals from actually changing their behavior.
Re:Nothing to see here, move along... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not because the hospitals are sterilizing. It's because people keep using antibiotics for things that are unnecessary that selects for antibiotic resistant bacteria such as MRSA. If and when vancomycin resistant Staph. becomes prevalent (I'm aware of 3 documented cases so far), we're in deep shit.
Re:Nothing to see here, move along... (Score:5, Informative)
If and when vancomycin resistant Staph. becomes prevalent (I'm aware of 3 documented cases so far), we're in deep shit.
Note quite. There is still Linezolid [wikipedia.org] and when that becomes less effective there are several other Oxazolidones [wikipedia.org] in the drug pipeline. Of course Linezolid is crazy expensive right now, being as it is under patent protection, but that is actually a good thing because it discourages frivolous uses such as anti-bacterial hand soap or animal feed. A few thousand dollars is worthwhile if it saves a life, but not for non-life threatening uses.
Re:Nothing to see here, move along... (Score:4, Interesting)
In fact, this showcases why it is that little R&D takes place for antibiotics - there isn't much money in them, and when you do come out with one you need to charge obscene rates to make a profit.
The fact is that 95% of people who get bacterial infections will do just fine with pennicilian. 95% of the rest will do just fine with one of a few other super-cheap antibiotics. The only people who need the really exotic stuff are people with really exotic problems. However, there aren't enough of them to pay for making new exotic stuff.
I think that antibiotics are one of those areas where the NIH should probably just contract the development of new classes of treatments. They could place an order for a new drug just like the Air Force places an order for a new plane. Sure, it would be pricey, but it is probably the only way it will happen. Actually - it probably shouldn't even be the NIH, but rather a coalition of first-world governments. The government might license it royalty free to anybody who paid in to the development, and to third world nations.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
"hospitals put so much effort into sterilizing every little thing."
Well if they stop doing that, how can they justify $50 bedpans, $50 toothbrushes, $50 puke buckets, and so forth? If it's just something you can pick up at the dollar store, then insurance companies will insist that is where the hospitals source them from.
It's far more profitable to go through the motions and appear to be safe, even though we're making humanity more fragile and the germs stronger in the process.
And another thing (related): w
Re:Nothing to see here, move along... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Nothing to see here, move along... (Score:4, Informative)
Arguably people get staph infections in hospitals because hospitals put so much effort into sterilizing every little thing. It leaves the hardiest, and fastest spreading bacteria and viruses to fill the vacuum rather than the millions of common germs that our body knows how to deal with.
Actually, "hardiest" and "fastest-spreading" are generally mutually opposed. Most mutations to develop antibiotic resistance are costly and inefficient compared to non-resistance. This is why these traits, which spontaneously appear in the population from time to time, do not become dominant without the use of antibiotics or other outside pressures to cull the herd in favor of resistance.
However, you are right in some contexts. Some genes for resistance to antibiotics also aid in resistance to certain disinfectants.
"Compounds such as household disinfectants and other antibacterial agents can also select for antibiotic resistance. Triclosan and pine oil, which are widely used in home cleaning products are able to select for multidrug-resistant mutants, either by mutation in the target genes or in the regulatory mar system, providing a pleiotropic resistance to disinfectants, multiple structurally unrelated antibiotics, organic solvents and oxidative stress agents. Constitutive expression of an MDR efflux pump which confers resistance to triclosan is also reported in P. aeruginosa. Given the increased use of these agents in households, one can imagine dramatic changes in the environmental flora that impact antibiotic resistance."
-- TM Barbosa, SB Levy. The impact of antibiotic use on resistance development and persistence. Drug Resist Update. 2000;3:303-11. [asu.edu]
Re:Nothing to see here, move along... (Score:5, Interesting)
"Hospitals do all kinds of disinfection that you wouldn't and couldn't do in your own home, and people still get staph infections."
They also ignore and omit proper precautions, even those as basic as a physician washing his hands between touching patients.
We lose more people to MRSA in the US than we do to murder and the WoT, but it doesn't make much news for some reason...
is it really a problem... (Score:2)
For geeks in general?
Not from where I sit (downwind).
Title is misleading... (Score:2)
I read this blog yesterday on physorg.com and I can tell you straight up that the title here on slashdot is very misleading.
It sounds a little too exaggerated.
Sounds like (Score:2)
Dear Slashdotters (Score:5, Insightful)
This article does NOT mean you have an excuse to cease bathing.
This article also does not provide justification for the cessation of: tooth brushing, hair cutting, shaving, fingernail clipping, or deodorant usage.
Regards,
Society
Re:Dear Slashdotters (Score:5, Funny)
In order for many slashdotters to cease bathing, they would first have to start bathing.
Sorry, I saw a nit and had to pick it! ;)
Suprisingly light on details for the BBC (Score:5, Insightful)
I have so many questions that this article doesn't answer.
1) Where was the sample taken? UK showers? World wide? Third world countries?
2) Is there an information on different kinds of shower heads? for example, is this more common on massaging heads, low flow/high pressure heads, etc?
3) Does hot water kill this bacteria? Is it more common for people who take colder showers than people who take hot ones?
4) I always start the shower first before getting under it, since it takes about 5+ seconds to warm up... any ideas if this affects infection? (Thats more of a study question than a question from the article).
5) Any real way to prevent the growth? Someone already asked if CLR kills it. If this is so common, mind telling me how I can help myself?
I've never read a BBC article that left me with more questions.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
This is why I only take baths (Score:2)
Are they extra healthy in France? (Score:2, Funny)
I just took a shower! (Score:2)
A possible solution (Score:2)
not to be stereotypical here but... (Score:3, Interesting)
Not to be stereotypical here but I don't shower regularly right now, on account of the whole "unemployed, no need to interact with people right now" part of my life.
After a couple "cycles" of only showering once every other/third day, my body acclimated to the different bathing. I found/find that my skin is, overall, much clearer (lifelong acme sufferer) as well as substantially less oily. I no longer feel like there's grease in my eyes by the time I go to bed, and my skin feels 'healthier'.
I wonder if routine shower cleaning would help fix the problem? I'd think that the chlorine in the water would help dissuade bacteria from growing. I wonder if that 1/3rd can be accounted for by low chlorine levels, or well water? We have non-chlorinated well water here, as do both my parents and grandmother, all in different parts of the country.
Re:not to be stereotypical here but... (Score:5, Funny)
(lifelong acme sufferer)
Ah, but how often do coyotes normally shower?
Re:not to be stereotypical here but... (Score:5, Funny)
Or suffer from the chronic purchasing of bogus, yet name-brand, gimmicks?
Stop making fun of Macs. That's mean!
Details? Who needs details? (Score:2, Informative)
Here's a copy of the abstract, for my fellow bio nerds:
The environments we humans encounter daily are sources of exposure to diverse microbial communities, some of potential concern to human health. In this study, we used culture-independent technology to investigate the microbial composition of biofilms inside showerheads as ecological assemblages in the human indoor environment. Showers are an important interface for human interaction with microbes through inhalation of aerosols, and showerhead waters have been implicated in disease. Although opportunistic pathogens commonly are cultured from shower facilities, there is little knowledge of either their prevalence or the nature of other microorganisms that may be delivered during shower usage. To determine the composition of showerhead biofilms and waters, we analyzed rRNA gene sequences from 45 showerhead sites around the United States. We find that variable and complex, but specific, microbial assemblages occur inside showerheads. Particularly striking was the finding that sequences representative of non-tuberculous mycobacteria (NTM) and other opportunistic human pathogens are enriched to high levels in many showerhead biofilms, >100-fold above background water contents. We conclude that showerheads may present a significant potential exposure to aerosolized microbes, including documented opportunistic pathogens. The health risk associated with showerhead microbiota needs investigation in persons with compromised immune or pulmonary systems.
CU Boulder (Score:5, Funny)
This is all based on a study out of CU Boulder. As a Denver resident, I can attest that the dirty hippies at CU Boulder are on a never-ending quest to justify their poor hygiene. Don't be fooled! Shower every day!
-Peter
It's all covered with germs! (Score:2)
Germs! [youtube.com]
Sure cure... (Score:2)
Just remove the shower head, and let it dry. Then, into the pipe end pour some cherry kool-aid powder.
A Victory for Open Source! (Score:4, Funny)
I declare this a victory for Open Source. Now - on to making beards, sandals with black socks, and red suspenders fashionable again!
Chlorine shower vapors (Score:3, Interesting)
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Now what? (Score:5, Funny)
sponge baths, given by sexy barely legal nurses in underwear, now that's healthy, in more than one sense of the word.
Re:Now what? (Score:5, Funny)
sponges are also full of germs. better stick to a good hand-rubbing. ;-)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
If I took your advice, and my wife found out, my condition would be pretty far from "healthy"
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
In defense of the article, it's not imbibing these germs, it's inhaling them. The force of the water coming out spreads the bugs around getting them into the air which you breathe in. I'd wager, without bothering to look it up, that either HCl is not a plesent environment for these or they just can't attach to anything in the digestive system as opposed to the resporatory system.
Re: (Score:2)
What about communal push-button showers in the gym/swimming pool changing room, then?
Re: (Score:2)
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dont drop the soap.
Re: (Score:2)
I might consider an Immersion bath if the blasted tub wasn't so dang small I mean come on how the heck am I, at 6feet and 4 inches tall, supposed to get my body into a 5 foot tub.
Bend your legs. What you really meant to say "I mean come on how the heck am I, at 350 lbs of fat, supposed to get my body into a 2.5 foot wide tub"
Re:Bad water... (Score:4, Interesting)
Not true, this is an opportunistic bacteria that lives in stagnant water. It can find the stagnant water without being introduced through the water supply (through air or other contamination). Since a person with dirty hair is only inches away from the shower, it's not hard to see how it might get contaminated. In the same way it can get inside your lungs (aerosol), it can also get inside your shower head.
The shower head is sitting idle most of the day, and since the chlorine in the water quickly dissipates in air, the water left remaining when you turn the shower off is quite welcoming to the bug. Yeah, it gets hit with chlorinated water at least once a day (you do shower regularly, right?), but the amount of chlorine in the water at-delivery is way too little to kill entrenched bacteria (that happens at the treatment plant, with much higher concentrations of chlorine, and UV treatments). You might kill a small amount, but the strong survive.
This is a real problem - it's already known that sources of stagnant water can be breeding grounds for Legionnaire's Disease [psu.edu], so why not yet-another lung infection?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
If the shower is run once a day the residual chlorine would sterilize any colony before it could establish. If the shower isn't run once a day and properly drains the environment won't remain wet enough long enough for the colony to establish. The only time a colony could establish such that the residual wouldn't kill it is if the shower isn't used daily and doesn't drain properly. Even then I doubt it could effectively establish because the amount of food in the water for the bacteria is going to be near z
Re: (Score:2)
I know that in some places in the US, they've only recently gotten water chlorination systems hooked up to the mains. Additionally, a lot of places (largely rural ones) still utilize wells for their water, so there will be no chlorination. I'd not be surprised if as much as 1/3rd of the households out there are in remote/non-mains water.
Re: (Score:2)
Actually, even tho you were modded off-topic, you probably have something here...
Simply don't be the first to shower. Problem solved.
Also seems to me that the normal Run it till its hot drill would solve this issue, as any concentration is likely in the first 20 seconds.
Re: (Score:2)
Two words:
"Survivorship bias"
Can't you clean it once in awhile? (Score:3, Interesting)
The thing I'm wondering is, why would you *replace* the shower head, when most likely, can you deal with this problem as simply as soaking the shower head in a bleach-water solution once a month or something (might not even need to do it that often)?
While I generally agree with the point about immune systems, even a perfectly healthy person with a fine immune system could succumb if exposed to a sufficient concentration of these bacteria. Wouldn't an occasional cleaning of the shower head be more than enoug