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Space

ISS Oxygen Generator Fails for Good 397

Posted by Zonk from the totally-not-worried-at-all-nope-uh-uh dept.
billyj4 writes "A balky Russian oxygen generator broke down on the International Space Station, but its two-man crew has a reserve air supply that would last about five months, NASA officials said Friday. The station's primary generator, which has been operating in an on-again, off-again fashion for months, stopped working last week and the station's crew has not been able to fix it. Mission managers say the unit has failed for good. Consequently, Russian cosmonaut Sergei Krikalev and U.S. astronaut John Phillips will be relying on reserves until replacement parts arrive at the station in late August."
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ISS Oxygen Generator Fails for Good More

ISS Oxygen Generator Fails for Good

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  • balky? (Score:5, Funny)

    by utexaspunk ( 527541 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @11:16AM (#12555547)
    A balky Russian oxygen generator broke down

    I thought Balky was from Meepos?

    riiiidiculus!

  • Mmm, air (Score:5, Funny)

    by StratoChief66 ( 841584 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @11:17AM (#12555558) Homepage
    Sure NASA says the parts are coming, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

    Oh No He Didn't!
    Oh Yes He Did!

    Ha ha ha, but seriously, I hope they don't die.
    • It's unfortunate that they forgot the six packs of Perriair for this exact situation.

    • Re:Mmm, air (Score:4, Funny)

      by Fallingcow ( 213461 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @12:17PM (#12556345) Homepage
      Well, look on the bright side:

      ISS Oxygen Generator Fails for Good

      At least it didn't fail for evil.

    • Re:Mmm, air (Score:5, Funny)

      by Waffle Iron ( 339739 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @12:30PM (#12556479)
      Sure NASA says the parts are coming, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

      I found the tracking number, and it looks like you're right:

      NASA Express Package Tracking Results

      383456875421256 Qty 1 Korelev Vital Oxygen Generator Model 340
      383456875423858 Qty 12 Korelev 1 Month Supply Oxygen for Model 340

      2003-11-13 14:32 Kiev, RU Package Pickup
      2003-11-14 05:44 Moscow, RU Arrived Distribution Center
      2003-11-14 18:32 Moscow, RU Departed Distribution Center
      2003-11-15 05:44 Newark, NJ Arrived US Customs
      2003-11-18 02:14 Newark, NJ Cleared US Customs
      2003-11-20 22:33 Miami, FL Arrived Distribution Center
      2003-11-21 04:18 Miami, FL Departed Distribution Center
      2003-11-21 15:22 Cp. Cvl FL Arrived Space Port
      2003-11-21 15:22 Cp. Cvl FL Arrived Space Port
      2003-12-19 18:32 Cp. Cvl FL Out on Spaceplane for Delivery
      2004-02-22 02:19 Cp. Cvl FL Out on Spaceplane for Delivery
      2004-07-18 11:48 Cp. Cvl FL Out on Spaceplane for Delivery
      2004-10-22 09:18 Cp. Cvl FL Out on Spaceplane for Delivery
      2005-01-11 14:16 Cp. Cvl FL Out on Spaceplane for Delivery
      2005-05-13 11:38 Cp. Cvl FL Out on Spaceplane for Delivery

      Current estimated delivery date: 2005-08-03 by 4:30 pm

  • typical (Score:4, Funny)

    by maharg ( 182366 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @11:17AM (#12555560) Homepage Journal
    .. I guess they ran out of duct tape
    • Probably, because if I was up there and had some duct tape I know i would sneak up on the other astronaut in his sleep and double my oxygen reserve by taping his mouth and nose shut.

      But seriously, I hope they don't die.

  • Actually shows the IIS is some use (Score:3, Funny)

    by hey ( 83763 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @11:18AM (#12555580) Journal
    Its a good place to try out tech that might be
    used in a more exciting mision.
    • I still wouldn't touch IIS with a 10-foot pole. TinyHTTPd all the way!!

    • Re:Actually shows the IIS is some use (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Rei ( 128717 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @11:59AM (#12556140) Homepage
      Apart from your amusing typo, that is a very good point. I'll never get the people who are insistant that everything is "good to go" for a year long mission to Mars when things break left and right just here in orbit. And it's not just ISS - Mir broke all of the time, and if we had used Skylab enough, even more things would have likely broken more than they already did.

      There's still an awful lot of learning going on. With such limited product runs and such extreme environments, even with rigorous testing problems occur. One of my favorite examples is the problem that they were having with unexpected torque being applied to the station. It took them a long time, but they eventually figured out that the problem was the Russian space suits. They vent gasses through a single vent; this creates a very tiny but extant net force. On most space missions, including those on Mir, it was unnoticable, but when working on ISS's most outward parts (at the time, over 70 meters long - it'll be more than 100 meters long when it's done), it became significant (Mir was only 13 meters long)

  • Time to go to Druidia (Score:5, Funny)

    by wiredog ( 43288 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @11:18AM (#12555587) Journal
    with Mega-Maid.

  • How did the Generator Fail? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ultimabaka ( 864222 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @11:19AM (#12555589)
    None of the articles mentioned seems to say, so I'm left to sit here and think "the machine just broke, not worth trying to fix?" That hardly seems right. And why can we not send up a replacement machine? We've got a few months to do it, and I hope we weren't stupid enough to only build one of them.
    • How did the Generator Fail? [...] I'm left to sit here and think "the machine just broke, not worth trying to fix?"

      They didn't say how the generator failed, but the article did state that they had attempted repair and failed. The [Astro|Cosmo]nauts and Ground control have come to the joint conclusion that "it's dead Jim!" and have decided that they just need a replacement. I can imagine that there are quite a few unfixable things that can happen to the unit. Without replacement parts, there's nothing tha

    • Re:How did the Generator Fail? (Score:5, Funny)

      by spookymonster ( 238226 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @11:43AM (#12555965)
      ... why can we not send up a replacement machine?

      The good news: it's still under warranty

      The bad news: the manufacturer won't send out a replacement until they've received the broken unit

      The really bad news: Sergei threw the crate out after they unpacked it, so they've go nothing to ship it in

      The really, really bad news: When they do finally find something to ship it in, they're just going to kick it out of an airlock with a note attached: "If found, please return to We Scrub Air, Inc. P.S., sorry for landing on your grandmother"

    • Re:How did the Generator Fail? (Score:5, Informative)

      by J05H ( 5625 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @11:44AM (#12555972)
      Elektron is a standard unit on Russian space stations, Mir and Salyuts (iirc) used them as well. They break all the time. Krikalev and the crew before his (Ciao and Sharipov) all have spent tons of time working on both the Elektrons onboard. One broke, they put in the other, it has broken again. It seems that they spend a lot of time stripping and repairing Elektron units.

      Definitely time for a new, more robust O2 generator. Not enough time in the interim to build a new style of generator, but there is a mid-term opportunity for one.

      The Russians will be sending either parts or a new unit with the next Progress supply craft.

      josh

    • None of the articles mentioned seems to say, so I'm left to sit here and think "the machine just broke, not worth trying to fix?" That hardly seems right.

      They've spent hundreds of man-hours over the last 6-8 months trying to fix it - but they've now run out of spares. (Slashdot is thin on space coverage other than blockbusters.)

      And why can we not send up a replacement machine?

      For two reasons: A) there isn't a replacement machine, the two on ISS (both broken) are modified MIR era spares. B) The tw

  • It shows how fragile our space program(s) are. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by blcamp ( 211756 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @11:20AM (#12555619) Homepage

    With the shuttle nearing obsolescence and this kind of substantial problem on the ISS, it shows just how fragile our space program(s) still are.

    We need better, sturdier-designed equipment if we are going to make a serious go at space exploration.

    Imagine if something like this happened on the way to Mars... Saturn... HD 2638 b...
    • Actually that's about the only point of the ISS that actually makes any sense. Actually running an oxygen generator for long periods to see if it actually works. That's actually necessary to test out for a Mars mission.

      In practice, for the ISS, the recalcitrant oxygen generator is mainly just a nuisance, at worst, because it operates atleast part of the time, it still cuts down on the amount of oxygen that needs shipping up from the ground and leaves room in the supply vessels for other equipment.

    • And first on the agenda will have to be sturdier people.

      We can't have any of these "I can't survive a decade in space because of muscular atrophy" problems we have now. They need to get on with building people that are at least as sturdy as our current equipment.

  • In related news... (Score:4, Funny)

    by elgatozorbas ( 783538 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @11:21AM (#12555624)
    ... the last food supplies only contained chili beans. Poor guys.
  • ...but I would be sleeping in my spacesuit!

  • No surprise (Score:2, Interesting)

    by houstonbofh ( 602064 )
    A friend of mine works at NASA JSC. He has been telling me design nightmares for years. Last week he was saying within a year it will probably be deorbited. Design by committee does not work for space exploration.

  • I'm not worried. (Score:3, Funny)

    by de_boer_man ( 459797 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @11:24AM (#12555674)
    If the reserve oxygen supply starts running low, I'm sure they'll send up the space cowboys. Those guys can do ANYTHING.
  • or is this just a "lowest price contractor-oh you wanted it to work" type of failure?

    All I know based on all the sci-fi horror flicks is Don't open the oxygen generator door.

  • ISS crew and solar emissions (Score:4, Interesting)

    by munehiro ( 63206 ) * on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @11:27AM (#12555740) Journal
    Slightly off topic, but since as I understand from this post there's someone up there, I'm asking myself about the possible problems the crew might have with the latest very strong solar emission. Sort of a billionth Xray machine exposure?

    • Re:ISS crew and solar emissions (Score:5, Informative)

      by whynotme ( 628513 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @12:36PM (#12556539)

      ISS orbits well within the region protected by the Earth's magnetic fields, so they won't have any problem. Geosynchronous satellites are going to be impacted pretty hard, but they're designed to withstand flares (although they may shut down temporarily).

      The crew of a lunar or interplanetary mission would want to take shelter, though -- most mission designs include some sheltered space for that purpose. The shielding usually consists of a water tank that surrounds most of the shielded volume -- water is an excellent material for the sort of ionized particles thrown off by the sun in these events.

  • What's next (Score:5, Funny)

    by MaGogue ( 859961 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @11:31AM (#12555776)
    First they ran out of supply line(2003), then they ran out of food(2004), and now they are running out of oxygen. What will the next thing be? Will they run out of orbit?
  • It's frequently pointed out how reliable Russian space gear is supposed to be. But it's important to remember that their gear usually got that way by lots and lots of trial and error. Fortunately the Soyuz lifeboat, should they need it, is tried and tested - I'm guessing that oxy generator isn't (yet).

  • on-again, off-again fashion (Score:3, Funny)

    by crucini ( 98210 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @11:33AM (#12555811)
    There's the problem. They should have operated it in an off-again, on-again fashion. Then when it finally got stuck it would be on.

    But was it a rectangular thing daubed with Rastafarian symbols [hack.org]?

  • What? (Score:2, Funny)

    by Gilmoure ( 18428 )
    Napa doesn't deliver?

  • morale (Score:4, Interesting)

    by OglinTatas ( 710589 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @11:35AM (#12555845)
    The oxygen will last for 5 months, but what about the booze? [linuxinsider.com]

    I imagine the morale of those aboard the station, and of those tapped to rotate onto the station is pretty low. The actual space station is a half assed effort at space colonization, and a money pit nobody wants. It was concieved in the Reagan era and in a spirit of Glasnost (or whatever the buzz word was at the time) as some kind of international gesture or that would herald in a great age of space exporation, or at least international cooperation. But there was no real goal or purpose in building it other than building it, and all the countries that began work lost interest in finishing it, but no one wants to be responsible for killing it off entirely. (I'm too lazy to look up references, but there are modules that were never completed, and perhaps were never even started)

    The loss of the use of NASA's shuttle was the biggest blow, since resupply by soyuz is barely adequate for the current crew, and there is no hope of actually putting a working crew up there without it. Expect the station to be abandoned by the time the shuttle is finally retired, that is, if the shuttle ever flies again.

    I suspect that the only way to get a permanent presence off planet is through private efforts--i.e. companies that hope to make a profit from space. If I weren't destined to die a virgin, [slashdot.org] I would like to honeymoon there. [spacefuture.com]

    • Re:morale (Score:4, Insightful)

      by gr8_phk ( 621180 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @11:47AM (#12555994)
      "I suspect that the only way to get a permanent presence off planet is through private efforts"

      More importantly, the only way to have a permanent presence off the planet is for it to be a self-sustaining presence. It needs to be on the moon (or any large solid body) so the inhabitants can expand their own space. Send construction workers, not scientists. Once there is enough there that people don't need to worry about things like food, water, air - then it could become a useful place to send people and do research.

      • Re:morale (Score:3, Insightful)

        by broter ( 72865 )
        Once there is enough there that people don't need to worry about things like food, water, air - then it could become a useful place to send people and do research.

        That points out the chicken and egg problem with space colonization. There's a lot of fundamental research that needs to be done in order to make permanent space habitation possible. The effects on physiology for extreme long term micro gravity (even lunar gravity might cause some surprises down the line), large scale construction with on site ma

        • Re:morale (Score:3, Insightful)

          by gr8_phk ( 621180 )
          "There's a lot of fundamental research that needs to be done in order to make permanent space habitation possible."

          You're one of those people in analysis paralysis. There are plenty of those around, what we need is people who like to take some risks and DO things. Structures? Go to the moon and start digging in the rock. Line it with some sort of air-tight "stuff". This way, they can always dig out new living quarters - and the more you work, the bigger your house! Plants that can provide food and reprodu

          • Re:morale (Score:3, Insightful)

            by broter ( 72865 )
            I take it from your replies that you're neither science nor engineering educated. Exactly what kind of air-tight "stuff" would you build your house out of? I'm sure we can come up with long lists of permanently secure materials after we look for it; but the point is we haven't ever built anything like it before and the first few attempts are likely to fail. As for plants in low-G, it might be obvious that all plants on earth have developed with gravity and tend to use it as reference to build the complex st

  • Space Station making nice passes right now. (Score:4, Informative)

    by lecithin ( 745575 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @11:35AM (#12555854)
    If you want to see the Space Station, it is making nice evening shows in the US right now. Just go to Heavens Above [heavens-above.com] through your city in and watch it pass over.

    It is as bright as the brightest star out there (Jupiter, yea not a star but you get it)

  • oxygen? (Score:3, Funny)

    by cashman73 ( 855518 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @11:40AM (#12555921) Journal
    All Your Oxygen, Are Belong To Us!



    Somebody Send Us Up The Parts!



  • Alternative Generator (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Gallenod ( 84385 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @11:40AM (#12555924)
    How many and what type of plants would it take to convert the carbon dioxide exhaled by the astronauts and convert it to enough oxygen for them to survive? Would they still need periodic deliveries of fresh oxygen or would the plants provide enough? Can they keep enough plants alive in space to do this?

    One of my favorite old science fiction films is Silent Running, with Bruce Dern. The premise was a little implausible, but the idea that we could be completely self-sufficient in space using biodomes (minus Pauly Shore) is still pretty cool.
    • Algae is the best oxygen generating plant, AFAIK. I know I read that most of the oxygen we breath is from Algae.

      Now which strain(s) of algae is another question.

      OK, just did some googling, and found this:

      "Diatoms, along with dinoflagellates, these microscopic single-celled algae produce most of the oxygen on this planet. Here is an electron micrograph of Biddulphia showing the porous nature of the silicious diatom skeleton, and it's use as diatomaceous earth in coating and trapping particles in filters.

  • What is an oxygen generator? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by MobyDisk ( 75490 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @11:43AM (#12555962) Homepage
    This may sound obvious, but what does an oxygen generator really do?

    What does it create oxygen from? If it takes it from compressed tanks, then it really isn't a generator at all. That would be like calling my gasoline tank a petroleum generator. Does it recycle oxgen from the air? Does it create it from some other source? We don't actually have a device to make O2 from CO2, do we?

  • The O2 generator must run Windows... (Score:5, Funny)

    by TripMaster Monkey ( 862126 ) * on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @11:48AM (#12556013)

    `_
    / \
    O O
    |||/
    |\/|
    \__/
    Hey there, partner! It looks like you're running out of oxygen!
    What would you like to do?
    • Sob helplessly
    • Regret your wasted life
    • Go into hysterics
    • End it all now
    • Kill all your fellow astronauts to conserve the remaining O2
    • Search for help on the Web

  • Entirely the wrong approach (Score:5, Interesting)

    by RealProgrammer ( 723725 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @11:50AM (#12556028) Homepage Journal

    Why don't they build a greenhouse up there?

    Actually, a biosphere seems like the next logical step for the space station.

    Make the greenhouse a disk:

    • Spin it and make centifugal "gravity"
    • Keep it to the moon's 1/6 G
    • Put a convex mirror at the hub, reflecting some filtered sunlight to augment the artificial light.
    • Play some Yanni. Plants love Yanni :^}

    You'd have to be careful about mixing in animals, though. It'd be tragic if the animal population got out of hand [starfleetlibrary.com].

    A greenhouse would serve to keep the astronauts from getting too loopy, too. "Gardening", even hydroponically, would probably be a welcome change from the other crap they have to do all day.

    Speaking of crap, a garden might be a good way to recycle other human byproducts.

  • Hey Homer, I'm worried about the air supply. After this case, and the other case, there is only one case left!

  • Failure == Good? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Theovon ( 109752 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @11:54AM (#12556066)
    Wouldn't it be better to say that it fails for BAD?

  • Incidently, Space Sucks (Score:3, Insightful)

    by whimdot ( 591032 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @12:19PM (#12556360)
    If the ISS is a useful science tool and it is part of the long-term aim of landing a man on Mars, wouldn't it be more interesting to tell the astronauts that there was no replacement on the way and that they would have to solve the problem themselves? This is after all, the situation they would encounter following a similar failure on a Mars mission. This would be one way of finding out which systems on ISS are genuinely essential, and which could be stripped down and the parts re-used for maintaining life-support.

  • Does anyone have (Score:3, Funny)

    by T-Ranger ( 10520 ) <jeffw@cheMENCKENbucto.ns.ca minus author> on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @12:23PM (#12556403) Homepage
    The FedEx tracking number?

  • Hope they got the units right this time... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Ribald ( 140704 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @12:32PM (#12556498)
    A month down the road:

    "Hey, guys--bad news. Turns out we were using the consumption rates in gallons of oxygen per minute, when we thought we were using liters! Heh, sorry about that."

    "Guys? Hello?" ...

    --Ribald

  • This is what we get... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by suitepotato ( 863945 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @12:58PM (#12556887)
    ...for doing everything on the cheap, rushing through everything while taking forever to do it, and letting the public's whimisical and capricious nature guide our space program.

    We are not now, but someday will be at the point where if we don't get off the planet in a sustainable format, we won't be able to at all after that point due to lack of resources: technological, social, and energy. Imagine an Earth with a planetary population of fifteen billion, schismatic fighting over resources, and no cohesive will to even try to see common ground for the survival of the species.

    That day is coming and in that world, how do you expect to do the major housecat herding job it would be to get enough of the wealthiest and advanced nations on the same page for a space colonization effort?

    Instead we dilly-dally with the attitude that "it's only moon rocks and photo ops" and "we need to deal with problems right here". We won't have a right here to deal with if we don't make the human race an ongoing proposition. Top down forcing of changes in human behavior have never worked and all the fanatical self-righetousness of the environmental movement isn't catching on and won't ever.

    We don't change under pressure very well and need the breathing space and serenity to do it. Try kicking a cigarette habit while simultaneously remodelling your home, refinancing your mortgage, getting two vehicles fixed, having sick family in the hopsital, and having a full desk at work. Now try it when you have three months paid leave and no problems on your plate.

    So we need to get off Earth in a meaningful sustainable format right now, make sure that any event down below won't take out the species, and use what we find out there to better our lives, and we need to do it now.

    Instead, we're using Russian O2 generators with known issues, and doing things without much more advancement than what we used to go to the moon in 1969. It's 2005 and you'd figure a planet that can make civilian houses nearly air and energy tight could do as well with environmental support on an orbiting tin can.

  • 5 months? (Score:3, Funny)

    by earthbound kid ( 859282 ) on Tuesday May 17, 2005 @01:03PM (#12556953) Homepage
    One thing that always bugged me on Star Trek was that if any alien started draining the power supply, life support system would always be the first things to go. The ISS is a tin can compared to the Enterprise, yet they somehow manage to have a 5 month supply of air just floating around. Meanwhile, the Enterprise still has more than enough power to run phasers (which must use unbelievable amounts of power to disintegrate stuff), shields (which must use as much power to absorb that energy), impulse engines, warp drive, etc.

    I know, I know, "suspension of disbelief." It just seems like it would be more plausible if life support was always the LAST thing to start failing, instead of the first.

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