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Mars Space

Mars Rover Opportunity Still Stuck In a Dune 192

Posted by Zonk from the lonely-little-guy dept.
Maddog Batty writes "The mars rover Opportunity, which has been stuck in a sand dune since the end of April, is still going nowhere after wheel spinning attempts were made to free the probe. It did manage to move a very short distance as can be seen in the difference between these two images. Before this attempt the NASA JPL team were playing in their own sandpit trying to replicate the conditions on Mars. (older coverage)"
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Mars Rover Opportunity Still Stuck In a Dune More

Mars Rover Opportunity Still Stuck In a Dune

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  • Late breaking news (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    The rover is still stuck.

    Wait, I'm getting a newsflash right now... The rover is still stuck.

    Oh, wait, here's another update... The rover is still stuck.

    More on this as it develops.
  • There has to be a joke about 4WD enthusiasts, a couple of 12 packs, and an alliance between the Monster truck association and NASA.

  • Well... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Fifty Points ( 878668 ) on Sunday May 15, 2005 @01:38PM (#12536643)
    Millions of dollars launched into space, only to get stuck in a Martian sand dune.
    • This is why we should send people to Mars. While more expensive and potentially dangerous, we won't have to deal with bonehead stuff like this.

      Instead of wasting a month because their toy truck got stuck in the sand, a person could just keep walking. If their big rover gets stuck, then use cables and a pully like the owner of a Jeep Wrangler would do. Or maybe cary a set of planks around with them to place under the tires.

      A person could also simply dig a hole with a shovel instead of the neat little tr

      • Re:Well... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by jfengel ( 409917 ) on Sunday May 15, 2005 @02:29PM (#12536919) Homepage Journal
        Alternatively, we can send up another rover. It's way cheaper than getting a human being all the way to Mars alive. And we don't have to worry about bringing it back.

        So yeah, when you say that "the 2 things holding us back are price and safety," those aren't two little things. They're the whole ball game. For the price of sending a human to Mars we could send scores, perhaps hundreds, of rovers, with zero risk to human life. No, we don't learn as much, but it means that when we do finally send humans they go fully prepared.
      • and here's my best argument

        100X more efficiently?

        How much mass, do we have to get into orbit, to get a man to mars and back...

        how much mass, do we have to get into orbit, to drop a rover on the surface of mars one-way?

        add that to your efficiency calculations, and get back to me...

        • add that to your efficiency calculations, and get back to me...

          I concede that the cost of sending people to Mars and keeping them alive is high. And we're still a little "fuzzy" on how to do it. But.

          1) How much time went into designing the rover and what-not.

          2) How much info have we gained over MONTHS of use?

          3) How much can saidd rover actually accomplish.

          4) How many different rovers will we send to accomplish what a person (or team) can do in one shot.

          5) A person can do a lot more a lot quicker t

          • I've read that Spirit and Opportunity combined cost around 800 million dollars. A manned mars mission might cost a trillion dollars.

            In my book, that's about 2000 times the cost of one probe, not 100 times the cost.

            And, frankly, if a mars shot was anything like the moon shots, it would just be a vanity mission. The people wouldn't add a damn thing.

      • You haven't convinced me (Score:3, Interesting)

        by hey! ( 33014 )
        This is why we should send people to Mars. While more expensive and potentially dangerous, we won't have to deal with bonehead stuff like this.

        Sorry, you haven't convinced me.

        The rovers, IIRC, have exceeded their planned mission length. The original mission was justified on a 90 sol duration basis, although more was hoped for. Opportunity got stuck on sol 446. Your hypothetical astronauts wouldn't have been able to deal with this "boneheaded stuff" because they'd have been on a very expensive return tri
        • "A later manned mission will be both safer, cheaper, and better focused scientifically on things humans can uniquely do."

          Precisely. What would have happened to the people, if their Mars rover they were in, became trapped in sand 3km away from their base? would they be able to walk back? Is there quick-sand on Mars? Would retractable skis on the rover get them out of this mess?

      • Re:Well... (Score:4, Interesting)

        by flyingsquid ( 813711 ) on Sunday May 15, 2005 @02:52PM (#12537090)
        Human beings can do 100x more than a rover can and more efficiently. They can also easily handle unexpected events (such as this) a lot easier since they're not limited to 4 wheels and a camera.

        Would a human really make things that much easier? I imagine humans would use some sort of wheeled rover to get around on Mars... and that could get stuck in a dune as well. I've been stuck in sand and mud a couple of times, and getting out can be a major ordeal, even without the constraints of a heavy space suit and limited oxygen.

        The other thing to keep in mind is that Homo sapiens is a "mature technology"; we haven't undergone any large changes in 100,000 years except for the software upgrades. Robots are a technology that is in their infancy, and in the next 10-20 years will make major advances in their capabilities. Which makes it all the more remarkable when you consider that robots are currently ahead of humans in many departments. Maybe humans really can do "100x more than a rover, and more efficiently", but robots can travel to Mars and explore it for under a billion dollars, and do that now, and humans can't.

      • Human beings can do 100x more than a rover can and more efficiently. They can also easily handle unexpected events (such as this) a lot easier since they're not limited to 4 wheels and a camera.

        Don't know about anyone else here, but I hate when I get stuck in a sand dune. It's damn embarrassing, if nothing else.

      • Swiss Army Rover (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Tablizer ( 95088 )
        This is why we should send people to Mars.

        1. People can can stuck also in various ways.
        2. A slightly more expensive rover could also have a shovel arm. Even a juiced up Swiss Army Rover is far less costly than a human mission.
        3. A lost rover is far less of a problem than a lost astronaut.
        4. These rovers have already "finished" their designed mission. This is all bonus time. Humans have to go home when their water and food runs out.
      • Ehm? I don't exactly see your point. What we've learned on mars is from instruments that are attached to the rover. A human alone doesn't accomplish very much science, and still requires the application of instruments. I can't see what kind of science you're looking for that would require the use of a human that may require that much mobility. We want to know the chemical composition? The rover is more than enough. All other things are mostly chemical makeup, and no matter how many humans you send at it, it

  • Comment removed (Score:3, Funny)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Sunday May 15, 2005 @01:39PM (#12536645)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • But wouldn't that mean it had to dig it's self into something to be stuck.. like wet mud..?

    What is it stuck on?

    • Re:stuck,, (Score:5, Interesting)

      by bigjnsa500 ( 575392 ) <bigjnsa500@nOSpAM.yahoo.com> on Sunday May 15, 2005 @01:41PM (#12536670) Homepage Journal
      Maybe an underground water source? From those 2 pictures, the sand looks like wet beach sand.

      • Or maybe...... (Score:5, Interesting)

        by reality-bytes ( 119275 ) on Sunday May 15, 2005 @04:48PM (#12537739) Homepage
        Or maybe it is stuck in fine, granular and very dry sand which would perhaps be even worse than wet sand.

        Every time you try to move, the sand is quickly displaced so the vehicle stays put.

        Its a shame they can't use the trick from Ice cold in Alex [imdb.com] where they put it in reverse (lowest gear) and move it using the starting handle as not to displace the sand too quickly.

        Of course, this would rely on:

        A) Opportunity having a starting handle.
        B) A friendly passing Martian offering to wind it.

      • Re:stuck,, (Score:2, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        the sand is likely VERY fine sand, and fine sands have a tendency to behave much like fluids.
    • It's frequently easier to get out of wet sand than it is to get out of dry sand.

    • Re:stuck,, (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Sanfamite ( 884199 )
      If you have ever walked on a beach with fluffy, fine-grain sand, you would notice the inherent difficulty in traversing even the dry variety. Since the entire traction surface can be moved by the rover, it could easily end up accidentially digging itself into a small ditch, from which removal could be difficult. Given the rover's weight, wet sand would actually provide superior traction than dry sand due to the stronger cohesion (for lack of a better word) between the grains.

      Then again, we're geeks. Non

  • Well, it's not a pit (Score:5, Funny)

    by Council ( 514577 ) <rmunroe@gmaPARISil.com minus city> on Sunday May 15, 2005 @01:40PM (#12536664) Homepage
    At least it's doing better than Spirit, which last I heard was sliding inexorably into an ominious pit of sand, where it will be slowly digested over a thousand years.

  • Just a test (Score:5, Informative)

    by g00set ( 559637 ) on Sunday May 15, 2005 @01:44PM (#12536678)
    According to JPL's site [nasa.gov] the latest move was not an attempt to *free* the rover.

    "Opportunity rotated its wheels on sol 463 for the first time since the rover dug itself into a sand dune more than two weeks earlier. The wheels made about two and a half rotations, as commanded, and the results were a good match for what was expected from tests on Earth. In the loose footing, the rover advanced 2.8 centimeters (1.1 inch) forward, 4.8 millimeters (0.19 inch) sideways and 4.6 millimeters (0.18 inch) downward. After further analysis of the results, the rover team will decide whether to repeat the same careful movement again on sol 465."
    • A little further down it says:

      "If these maneuvers aren't successful by sol 483, then the controllers will have to accept the disintegration risk, and they will go ahead and hit the hyperspace button."

    • With this glorious speed it'll advance almost 10 meters in 668 sols (one Martian year), not including any need to power down during the winter... I really hope they get it going again. As one with some experience with stuck IBM Deathstar harddrives, I know of all the desperation!

  • Relax, it's far from doomed (Score:5, Informative)

    by thompson42 ( 668043 ) on Sunday May 15, 2005 @01:45PM (#12536684)
    The rover managers have successfully tested methods for extracting Opportunity from the sand. Principal investigator Steve Squyres has said all along that it will be a slow process:

    http://athena.cornell.edu/news/mubss/ [cornell.edu]

  • JPL Status report (Score:4, Informative)

    by spworley ( 121031 ) on Sunday May 15, 2005 @01:46PM (#12536692)
    Opportunity didn't move for two weeks because JPL is being properly conservative and haven't tried until they understood the situation. The first small movement command was given on May 14, and Opportunity moved about the way they expected.

    http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/status_oppo rtunityAll.html#sol464 [nasa.gov]

  • If only Spirit could help (Score:5, Funny)

    by ravenspear ( 756059 ) on Sunday May 15, 2005 @01:48PM (#12536700)
    In other news, a team of NASA's best psychologists is scheduled to hold a meeting where they will determine how to best break the news to Spirit that her brother may be nearing the end of his life.

    Mission planners at NASA are concerned about the consequences this could have. While they still want Spirit to remain functional and capable of scientific discovery, they are aware of the moral issues involved and have decided against keeping the news from her, fearing a backlash from the MCLU (Mars Civil Liberties Union).

    NASA administrator Michael Griffin released a statement saying the team is carefully weighing the choices and will continue striving to preserve Spirit's technical functionality and psychological stability. Should Spirit become too depressed over the impending demise of her brother and refuse to cooperate, there is talk of calling in a special favor from a nearby resident to cheer her back up. Apparantly Spirit has recently become infatuated with a local hunk named Marvin.
    • In other news, a team of NASA's best psychologists is scheduled to hold a meeting where they will determine how to best break the news to Spirit that her brother may be nearing the end of his life.

      There's no mention of this on Spirit's livejournal [livejournal.com] --- but then, she never did get on terribly well with her sister (not brother, BTW). Opportunity [livejournal.com] seems to be mildly worried, but is in no way panicking yet...

  • Even geeks like to par-tay (Score:3, Funny)

    by coupland ( 160334 ) * <dchaseNO@SPAMhotmail.com> on Sunday May 15, 2005 @01:48PM (#12536703) Journal

    >Before this attempt the NASA JPL team were playing in their own sandpit trying to replicate the conditions on Mars.

    Okay, so I gather that the sand was to simulate martian soil conditions, and the radio-operated vehicle simulated the rover's movements. But what was the significance of the tanning lotion and beach umbrella? :P

  • Getting stuck (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Council ( 514577 ) <rmunroe@gmaPARISil.com minus city> on Sunday May 15, 2005 @01:48PM (#12536704) Homepage
    It always seemed to me that a good way to avoid getting robotic vehicles stuck would be to have thin, strong arms that go up and out, like cranes, and can simply extend down to lift the body of the robot out of whatever's sticking it. It's a bit of extra stuff, but it makes for an unstickable robot.

    I thought about this when I was considering how to make an autonomous RC car that could cross the country without interference. It has to be able to get out of a lot of different things.

    Anyone know of links to ways robots unstick themselves?

    • Re:Getting stuck (Score:3, Insightful)

      by pmazer ( 813537 )
      The problem is that every pound probably costs an extra $10 million.

  • The Mars Rover isn't really stuck in a dune... (Score:5, Funny)

    by consumer_whore ( 652448 ) on Sunday May 15, 2005 @01:52PM (#12536722)
    NASA is just practicing to be on http://www.carstuckgirls.com/ [carstuckgirls.com]

  • Vote. (Score:1)

    by mctk ( 840035 )
    Spirit or Opportunity?

  • I've skimmed TFA's, but... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by tunabomber ( 259585 ) on Sunday May 15, 2005 @01:52PM (#12536724) Homepage
    I still have this question: if they do manage to get it free, how long until it just gets stuck again?

    From the pictures it looks like Opportunity is entering a Martian dune sea, which will offer many more opportunities (npi) to get stuck once more. Do they have a plan to identify/avoid soft spots like this one in the future?

    • Re:I've skimmed TFA's, but... (Score:5, Informative)

      by MobyDisk ( 75490 ) on Sunday May 15, 2005 @02:23PM (#12536876) Homepage
      They have a plan.

      The rover got stuck because they are driving over a series of long ridges in the sand. These ridges are in rows that run mostly along one direction. The rover was originally expecting these ridges to be solid and it drove straight perpendicular across them. Unfortunately they are not as solid so it got stuck.

      Once they get the rover un-stuck, they will instruct it to move parallel to the ridges, and to weave in between them when possible to make forward progress. It will be slow, but it should minimize the chances of getting stuck again.

    • Re:I've skimmed TFA's, but... (Score:5, Informative)

      by ScottMaxwell ( 108831 ) on Sunday May 15, 2005 @06:16PM (#12538289) Homepage
      I still have this question: if they do manage to get it free, how long until it just gets stuck again?

      That's an excellent question, and the short answer is, we don't know. We crossed about 4km of this stuff uneventfully before we encountered the current dune (BTW, it's technically a ripple, not a dune), and we aren't completely sure what makes this one different from the rest.

      I've been a little out of the loop, since I switched back to Spirit a few weeks before the Ripple Event, but I followed some of the email traffic as best I could. Last I saw, the working hypothesis was something to this effect: this ripple just happened to be a little taller and steeper than normal, and we just happened to be gaining a little elevation anyway (so we were at a greater tilt than normal) when we came across it.

      I don't think there are yet any particular guidelines about avoiding them, but as you might expect, there's a team working on it.

      The two basic possible explanations seem to be geometry (which I touched on above) and material. Someone threw out the idea that we can tell "dangerous" ripples from the regular kind by their albedo -- possibly, hazardous (fluffy) ripples are made of lighter dust and are therefore brighter. But I don't know whether that idea gained any traction. To my eyes, the ripple we're on didn't look particularly brighter than many others we've crossed without incident, but I didn't do any systematic analysis, so I can't really say.

      My impression is that geometry is the leading candidate explanation, and if that proves to be the case, our guidelines will likely include evaluating every sol's traverse path for hazardous geometry. If we can't tell the rover how to avoid them itself, it might also mean no more autonav drives (where we let the rover find its own way), which would significantly slow our progress. But then, so would getting into another of these ripples.

      This is all still a work in progress, though. Just remember, this is why we call it "exploration"!

  • Hey everyone! Breaking news!! Nothing has changed!!! More at 11!!!!

  • Call AAA (Score:5, Funny)

    by www.sorehands.com ( 142825 ) on Sunday May 15, 2005 @01:53PM (#12536731) Homepage
    Nasa: Hello, my rover is stuck in a dune.

    AAA: Where is the dune?

    Nasa: On mars.

    AAA: What is the make and model of the vehicle?

    Nasa: It's a rover.

    AAA: What color?

    Nasa: Grey.

    AAA: What is the license plate?

    Nasa: It does not have a license plate.

    AAA: I'm sorry, if you don't have a license plate, we can't send out a tow truck. [click].
  • those robots should have legs not wheels.
    • Then it'd be like slipping into quicksand here on Earth! Perhaps it should take it's own carabena and attach it to a fixed point so it can tow itself out?!

  • Article Correction (Score:5, Informative)

    by Chokai ( 10224 ) on Sunday May 15, 2005 @01:58PM (#12536757)
    The drive that you are seeing in these images that supposedly did not get the rover out of the dune is in reality a short test drive performed on Sol 463. The response from the rover was roughly what was expected by the MER engineers as you can read on the JPL site. [nasa.gov]

    Considering that the wheels spun the equivalent of a 60 meter drive when they got stuck in the first place. (according to Dr. Albert Haldemann, Deputy Project Scientist for MER) they anticipate a fair amount of driving/spinning to get out. Also obviously if thier testing at JPL was wrong they did not want to worsen the situation to the point of no return on thier first try.

  • Maybe they should wait until night-time... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by mikael ( 484 ) on Sunday May 15, 2005 @02:03PM (#12536781)
    ... then the ground will be coldere and firmer.

  • Rancor (Score:2, Funny)

    by antiaktiv ( 848995 )
    Now taking bets at when a Rancor will devour it!
  • So, it keeps going and going and going until a human gives it the command to make a wrong turn. Maybe, we should upgrade the remaining rover with AI software that will analyze the travel objective and choose the best path to get there.
  • I mean in my home town if someone gets there car stuck in the snow the neighbors and friends will come out with shovels and the ole heeeeve-hooooe. But where are the locals of mars now, heh HEH?

    pifff Martian's who needs um.

  • here's how to get it out (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Put her in low gear. Don't accelerate hard. Just keep your foot off the gas. Let her ride slowly out of the rut. Once you've move a little bit, turn the wheel, gently, then keep moving a little. Eventually you get yourself out of the rut and back rollin' again.
  • You can see the head right in the center of this picture [nasa.gov], with the head facing up and eyes closed. This story about being "stuck" must be just a cover-up so no one is accused of being a hit-and-run driver.
  • is you just get stuck further off the road.

  • Crazy Conspiracy Guys thinks....... (Score:3, Funny)

    by kaz928 ( 884204 ) on Sunday May 15, 2005 @02:42PM (#12537024)
    Hey, long time reader first time poster, but NASA's 'recreation' of a sandpit sure makes it look simple to forge the mars surface eh? eh? see where i'm going with this?

  • Watch it spin... (Score:2, Informative)

    by MysterM ( 658952 )
    Movies at wohba.com... http://wohba.com/2005/05/diggin-out.html [wohba.com]

  • Here I am, a brain the size of a planet... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Greyfox ( 87712 ) on Sunday May 15, 2005 @02:57PM (#12537131) Homepage Journal
    And I'm stuck in this sand dune. (Spins wheels fruitlessly) and my solar collectors are getting dusty again. And I have this terrible pain down the diodes in my right side...
  • Someone buy NASA a copy of this [amazon.com] quick!
  • This little rover doesn't weigh more than some RC car. How come someone doesn't just pick it up and set it down somewhere more suitable?

    All this bothering with trying to get it out by remote control is useless. I mean, yeah, it'd be cool to say, "Yeah man, I got that rover out by remote control!" But seriously. Just pick it up and set it down somewhere else.

  • Uh-oh. Finster must be going crazy again. Somebody call the Rangers before it's too late. /geek
  • This is what still makes NASA great... the engineers' attitude. I (also an engineer) would shrug (or cry, or yell in anger) and assume I had lost it. NASA, meanwhile, says

    "The rover team spent more than a week designing and conducting tests under simulated Mars conditions on Earth before choosing the best way for Opportunity to drive out of the dune."

    The best way! Even assuming they have more than one way to free the rover, and never assuming failure. Hats off, wven if they do fail. These guys would make
  • Hundreds upon hundreds of millions of dollars, and they didn't splurge another few hundred bucks for Onstar? What was NASA thinking??

  • I know who this is a job for... (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Lassie! What, lassie? The opportunity mars rover got stuck in the sand? I'll go get the sherrif.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • A victim of its own success. Check those treads:
    Old and Busted [nasa.gov]
    The once new hotness [nasa.gov]

  • There's not much news from NASA... (Score:3, Funny)

    by mblase ( 200735 ) on Sunday May 15, 2005 @06:51PM (#12538645)
    ...but at least Opportunity herself is keeping in touch through her LiveJournal blog [livejournal.com].
  • In other news, Generalissimo Franco is still [nationmaster.com] dead.
  • How much did that thing cost? I got a Jeep Cherokee with 60000 miles on it (2000) for $8000 US. That thing isn't even designed to go a mile and it cost billions. Geez. Next time send a Jeep, or a Hummer, or something.

    Next mission to mars: deploying the tow-rovers, codenamed Redemption and Charity.

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