Closest Asteroid Yet Flies Past Earth 476
lmcl writes "New Scientist reports that an asteroid about the size of a small house passed just 88,000 kilometres from the Earth by on Saturday 27 September - the closest approach of a natural object ever recorded. Geostationary communication satellites circle the Earth 42,000km from the planet's centre. The asteroid, designated 2003 SQ222, came from inside the Earth's orbit and so was only spotted after it had whizzed by."
That Explains It. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:That Explains It. (Score:4, Informative)
Two reasons for suspecting they originated on Mars:
Martian meteorites come in a range of ages - some as young as a billion years old. By comparison, most meteorites hang out around the 4.6 billion years old mark - the point when small planetary bodies were forming in the Solar System.
For rocks to be much younger than 4.6 billion they have to come from a body that was evolving - that was hot, partially molten and volcanically active. Such a body would have to be big - a planet. Mars is the most obvious candidate, it shows clear signs of tectonism until relatively recently - new rock was being formed on Mars within the last billion years.
The second reason for suspecting these are Martian rocks is so clever it borders on magical. Some meteorites have been analysed in the lab. They contain vesicles - tiny bubbles of gas trapped in the molten rock. When the rock cooled and froze, the gas was trapped.
When these bubbles are cracked open, the gas inside can be analysed. The ratios of the inert gases (gases such as neon, argon and krypton) precisely match the ratios in the Martian atmosphere measured by American and Soviet probes.
I've no idea if the Egyptian dog-killer has been analysed though.
Best wishes,
Mike.
Re:That Explains It. (Score:3, Funny)
Re:That Explains It. (Score:4, Interesting)
I mean, there's little point in observing if we don't really notice most of them, or if there's nothing effective we could do even if we do notice an incoming bogey.
IMHO it would be much better to do a few things:
- Establish stronger presence on orbit, so orbital telescopes and later on defence mechanisms become cheaper. Then establish presence on moon for same reasons.
- Get probes to land on existing asteroids, to get great scientific data but also developing ways to intercepting asteroids.
- Later on get a potentially self sustaining colony either to Moon or more likely to Mars ("don't carry all eggs in one basket").
Re:That Explains It. (Score:2)
Re:That Explains It. (Score:3, Funny)
that's two in a few days (Score:2)
shotgun effect. (two in a few days) (Score:5, Interesting)
I would also note that the Indian event also appears to have consisted of at least two pieces (one of which is said to have done minor damage in a different village). I'm guessing that there are more pieces out there (smaller, perhaps, but out there).
Re:that's two in a few days (Score:5, Informative)
We're entering a phase where our system is moving back into the galatic disk in our solar system. In fact, we're closer to the middle of the galactic disk now than we have been for about 70 million years.
Think of it this way - as we whip around in the arms of the milky way, we also move up and down in them. I wonder if an attempt at ascii art would help explain...
------+++------ - Milky Way
^- Us
We accually move back and forth from the top of the dash to the bottom of the dash. Comprende? So we're now moving into the more dense part of the disk, so we'll see more asteroids. Coincedence that the last time we were here the dinosaurs mysteriously vanished? I think not.
Now, one the size of a small house could do some decent damage. Assume that a small house is about 15 meters in diameter. An asteroid about 100 meters in diameter hit siberia in 1908 [uga.edu] and flattened 2000 Square Miles of forest. These things aint big, but they do good damage.
Re:that's two in a few days (Score:2)
Re:that's two in a few days (Score:3, Informative)
BRITISH SCIENTIST PUTS ODDS FOR APOCALYPSE AT 50-50 [sentry.net]
"Humans may have come close to extinction about 70,000 years ago... The study suggests that at one point there may have been only 2,000 individuals alive as our species teetered on the brink."
Try to imagine 1000 volcanoes erupting in the same place at the same time. [worldonline.co.uk]
"The predicted effects of a Yellowstone eruption are the immediate devastation of North America followed by several years of freezing weather for the whole world."
Re:that's two in a few days (Score:4, Interesting)
It's also pretty clear that whatever happened in Tunguska Siberia wasn't an asteroid and consensus was that it was most likely a small comet. There's no "big hole in the ground" and no debris (other than some microparticles in the trees which may be related), thus no "big rock." There was a shockwave from the object vaporizing completely in the atmosphere, but no actual impact.It's true that what it was isn't certain (and likely never will be) and some still hold out for an asteroid, but they're in the distinct minority. For the asteroid hypothesis to prevail someone has to show how a really big rock can just go "poof" when we know that littler ones don't ( such as the one that just struck in India).
http://www.galisteo.com/tunguska/docs/tmpt.html
You'll find a true asteroid/meteor crater clearly
displayed in Arizona. That's what getting hit by a rock looks like. Over 30 million tons of meteoric debris has been collected from around the crater.It was a fairly small rock too, as space rocks go.
http://www.barringercrater.com/
You'll find a rather less clearly displayed impact crater in the Yucatan.
http://www.azstarnet.com/clips/signs_of_life_da
The author of the article was a "science editor," not a scientist.It clearly shows, as do the works of most science editors who are trained in journalism, not science, little, if any, actual understanding about the science she is writing about.
KFG
Re:that's two in a few days (Score:3, Informative)
A Russian scientist did, however, reproduce a blast pattern identical to the one on the ground by building a scale model of the terrain and sliding a small explosive down a wire. Detonating at different heights/speeds/angles made several different patterns, among them the same "butterfly".
Until someone can generate/model the
Re:that's two in a few days (Score:3, Informative)
As I stated its unlikely we will ever know. We do not know because it left behind no debris from which to determine its composition and created no crater. This alone is puzzling.
Another "airblast impact" is known that destroyed several hundred square miles of forest in Brazil in 1930 but seems to have left a crater and debris, althoug
EH? - Where'd you get your information from??? (Score:5, Informative)
However, the sun is presently located about 50 light-years above the central plane of the galaxy and is currently moving away from the plane of the Milky Way at 7km a second. It is estimated that it will take 14 million years for the gravitational pull of the Galaxy to stop our outward motion and begin to bring us back in.
Unless the Solar system is about to dissipate 7km/second worth of velocity and do an about face and the travel at 100 times the speed of light back to the plane, we won't be back there any time soon.
I think what you were trying to describe is the Earth's path through the Solar system. We will be passing back through the path of the ecliptic which is in effect the 'plane' of the Solar system where the majority of small hard rock type objects reside.
This is, of course, at the system level of motion rather than the galactic level.
We are here:-
Approx 28,000ly from galaxy centre on the 'Orion' arm.
Approx 50ly from mean plane of galaxy
Approx speed relative to galaxy centre: 200km a second.
Possibly related (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Possibly related (Score:3, Insightful)
*twitch* (Score:3, Funny)
I think I speak for all of us when I say:
Gah.
Really? (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Yes (Score:3, Insightful)
Why wait? You already know you're going to die within the next 100 years. That's not too long for a rabid orgy, is it? Are you saying that you can't take more than 80 years of rabid orgy? 70, even? Pathetic.
Re:Yes (Score:3, Funny)
What about Museums? (Score:5, Funny)
I like to think that they'll figure a few dinosaurs did survive and lived in grand buildings as the rulers of all mankind.
Re:What about Museums? (Score:3, Funny)
I, for one, welcome our new Dinosaur overlords.
We definitely could, given enough warning (Score:2)
Re:We definitely could, given enough warning (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:We definitely could, given enough warning (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, a large scale ocean impact is MORE devastating than a land impact. With a land impact you punch a big hole in the ground and throw a bunch of dust into the air. With an ocean strike you get the same, with the added bonus of a steam explosion as the water in the impact area instantly converts to its gaseous form. Remember, steam expands. As it expands up and out from the impact point, it displaces the atmosphere creating a second shockwave capable of devastating regions thousands of miles from the strike zone.
Best impact point: South Pole. Glacial melting may be an issue, but that'll give us time to evacuate and minimize casualties.
Worst impact point: In the ocean just off the coast of any continent. The ocean is shallow enough to allow the meteorite to strike the ground and simulate a ground impact, but deep enough to allow a massive steam explosion.
Mostly it's not about means to stop... (Score:2)
Re:Mostly it's not about means to stop... (Score:5, Interesting)
And if you miss, just launch another one. A well designed interceptor should be able to intercept an asteroid one week before armageddon, in just six hours.
Re:Really? (Score:2)
Asteroid disposal, Guy Ritchie style (Score:5, Funny)
Sol: Would someone mind telling me, who are you?
Brick Top: And when you got your six pieces, you gotta get rid of them, because it's no good leaving it in deep space for your mum to discover, now is it? Then I hear the best thing to do is feed them to pigs. You got to starve the pigs for a few days, then the sight of a chopped-up asteroid will look like curry to a pisshead. You need at least sixteen hundred pigs to finish the job in one sitting, so be wary of any man who keeps a pig farm. They will go through an asteroid that weighs 10 tons in about eight minutes. That means that a single pig can consume two pounds of uncooked asteroid every minute. Hence the expression, 'as greedy as a pig.'
Re:Really? (Score:3, Funny)
This tends to make me distrust Hollywood as a source of physical phenomenon.
Maybe it's just me?
KFG
Re:Really? (Score:3, Insightful)
So imparting a delta-V of 2inches/second perpendicular to it's path would be enough to deflect the rock by more than the diameter of earth....
so 8 miles/hour would be enough to give us a 1,000,000 mile comfort zone in 14 years.... What more do you want? (Btw: if we were
Re:*twitch* (Score:3, Funny)
Feh.
Damn (Score:3, Funny)
She said... (Score:5, Funny)
But it was just an asteroid.
Big Deal (Score:2, Funny)
Thank god... (Score:5, Insightful)
Thank god it was spotted after the fact, or else we would have had another stupid media frenzy that would draw attention away from more important matters, like friggin this [google.com], this [bayarea.com], or this [google.com]. Media man, it's like a toy for an ADD child.
Red Dwarf like..... (Score:2)
That's Lister, not Lester. (Score:2)
closest asteroid ever? (Score:5, Funny)
I heard the record for the closest approach of an asteroid was already set billions of years ago. Apparantly everything died or some freak catastrophe like that. Doesn't that still hold the world record?
Re:closest asteroid ever? (Score:3, Interesting)
As far as I know, it's an asteroid until it hits atmosphere, a meteor until it hits the ground, and a meteorite after that.
In other words, there has *never* been an asteroid strike on earth.
</pedant>
(and I can just imagine a pair of dinosaurs arguing about what to call the really, really big rock in the sky. Be a great Far Side.
Re:closest asteroid ever? (Score:2)
Asteroids are "large" rocks in space, with a poor distinction on what's "large" and what's not. It's unclear whether or not an object is a meteoroid or an asteroid, and unclear as to whether an asteroid entering Earth's atmosphere would be a meteor (then again, we'd be screaming for help, so it wouldn't much matter).
Re:closest asteroid ever? (Score:5, Informative)
Size allowance for meteoroids vs. asteroids... (Score:5, Informative)
Astronomer to lab assistant: "Hmm; it's too close to call. Hand me those calipers, willya?" ;)
Re:closest asteroid ever? (Score:2)
homeless now (Score:3, Funny)
so... (Score:2, Funny)
Closest, hah! (Score:5, Informative)
Sheesh.
Re:Closest, hah! (Score:2, Funny)
Goddamn arachnids ... (Score:2)
Huh? (Score:2)
Earth in the past. WTF is up with headline?
Closest Asteroid Yet Flies Past Earth? (Score:5, Funny)
Er-Um-I don't think so. Plenty of Asteroids have struck the Earth, and those are the degenerate case of "closest".
Did you really mean "Closest Asteroid of Significant Size since Hollywood Made Some Movies Recently About Asteroids Hitting the Earth and Wiping Out Humanity Yet Flies Past Earth"?
Re:Closest Asteroid Yet Flies Past Earth? (Score:2)
Re:Closest Asteroid Yet Flies Past Earth? (Score:2)
The best we can say is that this is the closest "recorded" near-miss.
Re:Closest Asteroid Yet Flies Past Earth? (Score:2)
It's like the security goon that got up and said, (in front of senior management, no less) "We have never had an undetected break-in on our network."
The room sat in stunned silence for a moment... (Kinda like that AFLAC commercial with Yogi Berra. You've seen it if you watch baseball.)
Re:near-miss? (Score:2)
The scores went: A, B, C, D, E, N, U
U stood for "unclassifiable", failed in other words
N stood for "near-miss". I remember the arguments over whether or not a "near-miss" was a hit, and therefore a pass.
The Sky Is Falling! (Score:3, Funny)
I am a research scientist in Nigeria. I have access to important information that will save the world, but need seed money to bring my theories to the scientific world.
Send me research money or the world will end! Do it quick so I can send up Bruce Willis in a shuttle to Save the Baby Seals and all the other earthlings. If you send me enough research money, I'll tell you how to mine killer asteroids for Ni, Fe, Pt, Pd and Dilithium.
Please keep our transactions confidential so we may share in this opportunity to save humanity and get rich.
Re:The Sky Is Falling! (Score:5, Funny)
Dear Sir,
I've seen that movie too.
Bruce Willis dies.
Here is $500 to make it happen.
Closest? (Score:2)
tag, if they weren't all dead.
When it rains. . . (Score:4, Interesting)
Link-O-Rama. .
About 4 or 5 years ago there was a bit of noise around the scientific community about a mysterious very big object being detected around the vicinity of Pluto's orbit. An object travelling on an eliptical orbit around the sun which had been predicted by numerous astronomers trying to explain anomolies in the orbits of the various planets in the solar system. As the object came to its closest point a few years back, a bunch of disinfo was thrown up to distract the public. --Calming bullshit reports on the various 'Learning Channels', plus a bunch of culty nonsense from the 'Planet X' contingent. All horseshit designed to keep the public quiet or confused while the global elite prepared for the approaching calamity, (and for which they seem to think the proper preparation includes building a one-world government, killing a ton of people, and managing the whole affair from underground. Or some Dr. Strangegloves nonsense to that effect. Either way, nonsense stories clouded the issue with almost perfect success. --Including the interestingly sudden reassurances (which I never heard when I was a kid), from governments and government owned media that, "No, No. Rocks are constantly falling into the atmosphere. This is all perfectly normal." --Well sure, stuff is always falling, but there are certain scales of averages which are being ignored here. .
Works like this. .
Basically, every 3600 years we go through a cloud of rocks, and every 360,000 years, that cluster is replenished thanks to said big object, (a ball of hydrogen which never got quite big enough to ignite, but which plays binary to the sun), which passes through the Kuiper belt and knocks new debris down to the Earth's orbital plane. The last year or so of comet stories and such were, I suspect, elements of the old cluster, and now we're beginning to see the first arrivals from the new one.
The pattern expected is that it will be like a rain shower. A few drops here and there as it begins. Then a short pause where everybody half-relaxes. Then the downpour.
Should be interesting, to say the least! --Espeically in conjunction with the dozen or so other massive things going on. So much to do, so little time!
Keep alert, folks! You don't get to experience stuff like this every lifetime!
-FL
Re:When it rains. . . (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, IIRC there's been some recent evidence that casts serious doubts on the validity of the theory, but can't seem to locate the link(s) at present. Google for more, of course.
Soko
Re:When it rains. . . (Score:2, Insightful)
Actually, IIRC there's been some recent evidence that casts serious doubts on the validity of the theory [. .
Well, the 'serious doubts' I've seen cast have all had the ear mark of the desperate. But you're right. The Nemesis Theory and similar have not been officially proven, nor will they be, (the halls of officialdom being what they are). The point of the matter, though, is that people have known thi
Obligatory Bad Astronomy link (Score:3, Informative)
Re:When it rains. . . (Score:5, Interesting)
25 years ago this theory may have been worth spending time on, but technology has done a pretty good job of ruling it out since then (nothing is impossible, but its presence is highly unlikely).
The theory that a brown dwarf or Uranus to Jupiterian-sized planet could be orbiting beyond Pluto in a slow or elliptical orbit invisible to ground based visible light scopes is believable, but astronomy has moved well beyond visible light. We've scanned the sky in X-Ray, infrared, radio, and gamma ray, and haven't found ANYTHING resembling another planet or nearby star. Planets, especially gas giants, tend to be noisy and easily visible by radio, and ALL planetary bodies have some kind of infrared signature. If there were anything out there of any appreciable size, we'd have seen some sign of it by now.
Re:When it rains. . . (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:omg (Score:5, Interesting)
makes for some intersting reading... the nemisis stuff is really an alteration of Velikovsky's ideas as far as I have seen.. ie someone discounts Velikovsky's idea of what happend in the past but presents an alternative with similar effects.
Some less extreme stuff is to check out belivers in catastrophic history/evolution etc... look into the mystery of the wooly mamoths (did you know the biggest source of ivory in history was from Mammoth tusks? ), the mystery of the Loese of Siberia and 'Muck' in Alaska... the lack of enough silt on the ocean floor, Niagra falls not being far enough back and other similar things, questions regarding the Ice Ages. The inability of dinosaurs to have existed based on current understanding of biology ( they existed but our understanding of biology says they are physcially impossible in size due to limitations of muscle mass efficiency etc, interesting reading )
All this stuff tends to get mixed up in debates about creation and punctuated equilibrium ( catastrophic history ). Regardless it clashes with most accepted mainstream science and as such is hard to find non-rabid discussions about some of the legitimate questions which have no answers in current theory.
Why wasn't I told this earlier???!!! (Score:2)
Just think of all the partying I could have done thinking the world was going to end.
Oh well, gotta go. Work starts at 8...
Hell. (Score:3, Funny)
Damn you random chance! I'll get you next time.
Quick comparison of areas (Score:2)
Translation: To a first approximation, we can have about 200 asteroids come this close or closer before one hits us - so it wasn't a particularly close call.
To a second approximation, it gets a bit more complicated. The Earth's gravity deflects asteroids towards the center of the Earth, and so an asteroid tha
Re:Quick comparison of areas (Score:5, Interesting)
Event not connected? (Score:2)
This is very interesting
- September 27 [google.com] - A meteor hits Eastern India, catching some homes on fire and injuring at least three people. This kind of thing doesn't happen very often.
- September 28 [google.com] - A post to rec.arts.sf.fandom reported a "rather impressive meteor" with "lots of bits breaking off".
- (the week before) October 1 [nasa.gov] - Astronomy Picture of t
Re:Event not connected? (Score:2)
Maybe the big one is bearing down on us even as we speak.
Re:Event not connected? (Score:3, Informative)
Much like the Cancer Hot Spots in the US.
Statistically if cancer is totally random you will have hotspots of cancer. And the quantity of so called hotspots matches what is to be expected.
Have you ever rolled doubles twice in a row in Monopoly?
Were you like, How can this not be related?
Justification (Score:2)
Let's just hope we have another decade or two to get ready before a big one is going to hit.
Near hit ? (Score:2)
How big? (Score:2)
Come on people, use the right units!
Small House? (Score:2)
Re:Small House? (Score:2)
2003 SQ222 details (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.birtwhi.demon.co.uk/Gallery2003SQ222.h
See the sky falling here (Score:2)
One asteroid the size of a couch DID NOT pass closely by, but entered the the atmosphere [nasa.gov]
Presence of Mind (Score:2)
Fortunately for us, scientists are more worried about negative press [slashdot.org] than they are by near miss killer asteroids. Not that they would want to raise awareness [slashdot.org] and get something done about them. I mean, don't want the world too worried about being wiped out. That's bad publicity.
a house? (Score:2)
Depends on what you mean by 'closest'... (Score:2, Interesting)
http://comets.amsmeteors.org/meteors/1972.html
This one missed terra firma by just 58 Km, close enough to create sonic booms, but not close enough to hit the earth.
Closest natural object? (Score:2)
This village [slashdot.org] replies: "Yeah, right."
Gabe Newell (Score:2)
Maxwell Smart: Missed it by *that* much... (Score:2)
Although this seems quite close by astronomical standards, it's still not really all that close - when you realize that Geosynchronous orbit is approximately three Earth Diameters out there, then it becomes clear that
Not closest - Grand Teton, 1972 (Score:5, Interesting)
Then there's this one [floridatoday.com], which is believed to be a meteor that was put into Earth orbit on the first pass, then re-entered 100 minutes later after orbiting the Earth once.
Reminder (Score:3)
Let's keep in mind that such an asteroid striking the atmosphere would do very little damage other than a spectacular lightshow. This kind of thing happens all the time; don't let the recent media hype over the recent asteroid probabilities (which were all well under the background probability anyway!) lead you astray. Without comprehensive programs, it's inevitable that the geometry of orbital mechanics means we'll tend to find these near-misses after, not before they hit, anyway.
It's kind of strange to see the media labeling this as the nearest miss so far. When, uh, lots of asteroids, huge, big, medium-sized, small, and dust-sized have hit in the past.
Math (Score:3, Interesting)
I assume (based on this article [arizona.edu]) that we've been watching the skies for 100 years, and that this has been the closest pass in that time. That means that any give year we have a 1 in 25,000,000 chance of an impact.
Based on this simple history [whyfiles.org] it's apparent that there have been 2 impacts of similarly sized asteroids in the past 500 years. Either A) my impact probability is off by 5 orders of magnitude or B) this has been a quiet century for near-misses. That kind of statistical variation is unlikely, so what's wrong with my numbers?
Assuming that we've only been able to accurately record near-misses for 20 years drops my probability of impact to 1 in 5 million. Based on that answer there should have been 1/10000th of an impact in the past 500 years. My answer is still off by 4 orders of magnitude. Assuming independent asteroids of 1m volume I go down to 1 order of magnitude error.
I'm going to keep thinking about it, but I have to do a problem set now. I'm interested if anyone sees a flaw in my logic or math, or simply has comments.
Re:too many asteroids these days? (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm not sure if you're refering to this asteroid that went over India, but JIC.
Re:too many asteroids these days? (Score:3, Informative)
No.
KFG
Re:too many asteroids these days? (Score:5, Insightful)
The two objects had no relationship to each other. They were on totally dissimilar paths, made of different materials and of obvious divergent origin. In fact, only one of them was an asteroid.
An asteroid is orbital, just like a planet (asteroids are also called "minor planets"), and behaves like a planet. Once detected its behaviour is highly predictable.
The other was a meteor. Space junk. A rock. Very possibly a comet fragment but being hit by such a fragment means little about the odds of ever being hit by the comet it came from, which may well be tens of thousands of years away from coming anywhere near earth. There is a small army of astronomers, both professional and amatuer, watching for incoming comets because they're neat and get named after you if you see it first.
Tons of stuff falls on earth from space every day. It isn't indicitive of anything much other than there's lots of stuff out there and a lot of it hits us.
Some of the stuff that hits us is clearly related to other stuff that hits us.Meteor showers are such related stuff. Some of the stuff is entirely unrelated to all the other stuff.
These two things don't happen to have any relationship to each other, and thus have no joint relationship to some third object.
This is not to say that something big isn't on a collision course with earth at some future point. In fact such an event seems highly likely at some future time.
It just that these two unrelated events don't presage that.
Bummer, huh? You'll have to pay those credit card bills after all.
KFG
Re:too many asteroids these days? (Score:3, Insightful)
Or, it could be a black hole [xs4all.nl] on its way to the earth throwing kupiter belt objects and other assorted space goodies at us. Soon the black hole will be here and kill us all! The government paid you to be a disinformation agent! You can't fool the good citizens of slashdot. (Do I still have to pay my visa bill?)
Mr. Bush?? Is that you? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Threats to civilization (Score:2)
If this asteroid had hit the Earth, it would have done a great deal of damage and perhaps killed a great many people had it hit a densely populated area.
Actually, that's not true. It would have caused no damage as it would have burned up on entry into the atmosphere. Having said that, I do agree with your basic premise of funding programs to watch out for this sort of thing (when much larger asteroids are involved).
Many people may think it is a waste of money, but considering all of humanity is at
Re:Threats to civilization (Score:2)
Re:Threats to civilization (Score:2)
Re:wait, wait, wait (Score:2)
Now that I think of it I remember seeing some fairly spectacular meteors last Saturday night, all in the same general part of the sky -- perhaps they were bits of this thing.
Re:Standard measurement? (Score:2)
1 Small house
2 trucks
4 VW bugs
8 laser printers