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Space

NASA To Shoot Comet With Copper Projectile 123

Posted by timothy from the cupid-should-be-so-equipped dept.
Max Entropy writes: "I can't make this up, guys. NASA plans to shoot a comet with a copper missile according to this article from Reuters' Chilean bureau. It says: 'In January 2004, a rocket would launch from Cape Canaveral, Florida, a spacecraft that would orbit the sun. In July 2005 the spacecraft would separate from a battery-powered, copper projectile that would collide with the comet 24 hours later at a velocity of 6 miles (10 km) per second....It would produce a crater the width of a football field and up to 100 feet (30 meters) deep.' They say that using copper will help get more accurate readings."
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NASA To Shoot Comet With Copper Projectile More

NASA To Shoot Comet With Copper Projectile

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  • Re:What?! (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    But there's no excuse for this kind of brute force Rambo method of information gathering...

    The simple fact that the universe works in such a violent manner, I think, supports this effort. Tests like these go a long way toward, not only learning about things that we know we don't know, but they help enforce the understandings that we think we know. Like it or not, if we are to survive well into the distant future, man must continue learn all we can. If we stop doing that, we become the worse virus the planet Earth has ever known.

  • The project also aims to see if scientists can alter the orbit of a comet to protect the Earth from falling matter. The impact would alter the comet's orbit by a ``just barely measurable'' 62 to 620 miles (100 to 1,000 km), A'Hearn said.
    Something tells me the 0 digits in "100 to 1,000 km" weren't supposed to be regarded as significant digits. Amazingly, the conversion to miles seems to have increased the accuracy of the estimate.

    Actually, what should a reporter write in cases like this one?
    --

  • On the other hand its nice to see nasa planning a mission where they _deliberatly_ crash probes as opposed to what usually happens..
    I hope they don't have another units error and end up *missing* the comet they intended to hit...
  • you are not trolling aren't you?

    The data gathered should be quite rich. you'll learn how the crater is formed and it's characteristics, the physical trajectery change after the impact, but most important IMHO, is how the comet is made of, and from that you can gather how the comet is formed. and after analyzing those you might have some good idea on solar system's history.

    The solar system is not belong to us human only, it is part of the universe, how can you claim the solar system to be "owned" by a single life specie that only exist on 3rd rock from the sun? and We human were known to destroy the nature resource quite freely without any other consideration for the rest of the life forms on this little rock anyway. :)

    Of course there's more expensive way of doing things, but at this age and time, COST is substantial, if not a deciding matter. I believe the predecessor of Deep Impact is Deep Space 4, which vist the same comet in the same frame of time, is canned because high project cost and high complexities(not sure which is more deciding though).
  • You shoot 10 men and you're a murderer.
    You shoot 1000000 men and you're a god.
    You shoot 1 comet and you get an article on slashdot.
  • What's next, making a chemical analysis of Martian rock composition from debris thrown up by a nuclear strike on its surface?

    Dude, that would be awesome! Remember: blowing shit up is fun!

  • And scissors. Eunuchs will be saved, don't you know.

    --
  • Are they doing their calculations in miles, kilometres, or both?

    --
  • I don't remember if this sort of thing is in 2001, but they land on Halleys in 2061, and then use some of the water vapor Halleys loses as fuel.

    --
  • Don't you just love the way NASA claims it alters the comet's orbit just barely measurable

    I feel really safe now.

  • NASA has been quite publically planning Deep Impact [umd.edu] for years. It's purpose is to reveal the presumably pristine, primordial layers of stuff underneath the heavily weathered top layers of the comet.

    Comets get heavily damaged from outgassing every time they pass close to the sun, so it isn't like NASA's perpetrating some sort of crime here.

  • Rubbish. Comet Tempel is just a freaking overgrown snowball. Deep Impact is no more an act of violence than is a geologist breaking a rock open with a hammer.

  • Not a corrected link, but another boring goatsex troll. When will these puppies get tired of this?
  • Let's just hope they don't knock the comet into
    a collission c(o)urse with our favorite planet.

  • ... It would produce a crater the width of a football field and up to 100 feet (30 meters) deep.' They say that using copper will help get more accurate readings."

    Funny, I claimed that blowing things up would obtain more accurate readings for my high school physics labs, but the teacher didn't give me extra credit. :(

  • I'm definatly with you on this one.

    This comet as been orbiting for millions of years, and just because NASA wants to blow it up, we're going to fuck with it. It would be like blowing up a historic building just to see whats inside. It's a loss.

    Don't ask me, it just feels wrong, but hey, I'm not the one doing it.



    We emerge from our mother's womb an unformatted diskette; our culture formats us.
  • Didn't Arthur C Clarke describe exactly the same experiment in 2001 (or is my memory horked)?

    not a bad prediction to make 30 odd years in advance.

    v
  • In planetary mechanics, timing is everything. The earlier you push, the less force you need.

    It betcha that if the same money were spent on a massive detection system and a puny deflection system versus the opposite case, the massive detection system would be x times more effective.

    where x is an impressively large number. And the system could be used for scientific purposes as well. Of course, that wouldn't give us an excuse to build Really Large Nukes, so there you go.
  • Now *this* would be ironic:

    1. Projectile smashes into comet
    2. Comet breaks into chunks with various new orbits
    3. One of the chunk's orbit allows it to smash into the earth 125 years later on its next orbit.

    Matter's revenge!!

    • call [umd.edu] for observation

    • notes on tempel1 here [cam.ac.uk] and here [amsmeteors.org]

    • Interesting [williams.edu] notes on deep impact

    • - Deep Impact FAQs [umd.edu]

    • - paranoia link [greatdreams.com] - suggests that the project's real, unpublished goal is to "miss" Tempel1 and intercept OX4, whose course with Earth in 2014, 2038, 2044 and 2046 is "possibly" an intercept.

  • She used to be a silicone woman. Sheesh...

  • Pilot (Score:1)

    by ferar ( 64373 )
    Yes, and NASA is recruiting Bruce Willys to fligth the ship, but he want to much money.
  • Does anybody else have a problem with NASA hitting a comment with a projectile? I do. Barely measureable propogates into trouble over time. Where once that comet may have missed the Earth by a small amount, it might now hit the Earth. The orbit could change drastically. I like this idea about as much as the idea some scientist had to creae a small black whole on Earth.
  • ...a perfectly good IDSL bridge [chq-online.net]? ;) Then again, being stuck here on an IDSL line myself I can understand the frustration. :)
  • Not entirely since we can calculate the position of our planet after 70 years (ever seen RedShift? Its the perfect program for things like that) and if this comet has a static trajectory this can be easily calculated. But then again; it heavily depends on the comet itself ;)
  • a bit of both, of course ;)
  • unfortunately, asteroid!=comet, so the damage done to a comet probably won't reflect what we could do to an asteroid (iceball vs. rock)
  • I would think they have little choice but to blast the offending comet out of the air, lest it turn the Earth into naught but red dust and zombie cannibals. - - - - - Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich... ...did I mention I'm an atheist?
  • I have to strongly agree with points a through c.

    This is just about the most important space mission we have ever done because it directly provides us knowledge to help us avoid our own armageddon.
  • I am sure the experiment is set up to determine the chemical make up of a comet and has nothing to do with bad science fiction movies.

    You shoot a high speed projectile at a comet, a chunk of the comet evaporates, looking at the spectrum one can figure out what the comet is made of.

    Also note that asteroids and comets are have very little in common.

  • It's nice to see that the United States is now pursuing its foreign policy in space - opting to start "shooting" objects first, and gathering data later.

    I know this is for scientific purposes, but doesn't the mere concept of the idea of "shooting" an object with a "projectile" carry the notion of violence with it?

    Why start exploring yet another new world the same way humans have done so in the past - through violence?
  • On further inspection, it's obvious that the writer of the article is the suspect:

    "U.S. scientists aim to blast a comet with a copper projectile to learn about the formation of the solar system as part of a $270 million project funded by NASA (news - web sites), the head of the project said on Tuesday.

    The project, called Deep Impact and which will cause an explosion capable of destroying a small town, would be the first space mission to probe inside a comet, whose primitive core could reveal clues about evolution of the solar system."

    It seems to me that language reveals the underlying psychology of how people envision a situation. For example, if I keep referring to Linux as "Open Source", it may be that I don't like RMS and consider him a communist. That is not what I think, btw, but it illustrates a point - people use langauge according to how they think and perceive issues. Glass half empty, glass half full.

    So the language in the article is decidedly of a violent nature. I'm not a wussy and want to see the world hold hands - it just illustrates what seems to be the underlying psychology of a lot of people within the US, and especially government agencies, who always seem to express violent intentions.

    Back to the point - Can we explore at least ONE new world without doing so at gunpoint - crushing things and people as we do it?

    I think it's a relevant point to make.
  • Right... it's the same as a geologist breaking a rock open, but the language and the way it is described is very different... you don't hear of geologists describing what they do with violent terminology like "projectile", and "shoot", do you?
  • "...and I'd hate to think that it marks the start of a new phase of "science" whereby we obtain data by blowing things up."

    This is not a new phase. Particle Physicists have been blowing stuff (really really small stuff) up for almost a century now.

    -Erf C.

  • The problem with your ideas is as follows: the probe's mass and speed are only enough such that the change in the comet's orbit is kept to a minimum. To cause a planet sized object to change its orbit even that much would take an object of a lot more mass, or an object of equivalent mass or less travelling at much quicker speeds.

    If we did somehow cause the moon's orbit to change, it could potentially leave g-lock and fly off as you have suggested. But if it did so, the moon would probably take many years to crash into another object, if its new orbit became stable.

    But, of course, I learned all my astrophysics from Wesley Crusher while watching Star Trek: the Next Generation so my opinion doesn't count.
  • Since Bruce Willis did so well on the last space rock, would it be possible to load him on this rocket too?

    Please?

  • I have neighbors working on this project, and actually got to tour the offices where the probe is being designed.

    The impactor is going simply going to be dropped in the path of the comet. It will have no propulsive force of its own. The main probe will watch from a safe distance, and record the impact.

    Copper was chosen for the impactor because they don't believe that the emmissions from it will interfere with what they expect to see, and even if it did the interference will be minimal. (Copper is apparently not very common in comets).

    I forgot to ask the mass of the impactor, but it can't be more than a few tens of kilos due to launch costs. Since the comet's velocity is about 20km/sec at the chosen impact point, the impactor doesn't have to be going very fast, and because of the "drop in place" method it also doesn't need much in the way of guidance systems of propulsion, just good ol' Newtonian mechanics.

    The overall shape of the probe has changed a few times, but I think that the final form is settled now. And as a further bit of trivia, many of the engineers working on this project are women.

  • Perhaps they should send a team of oil drillers with a copper drill bit instead.
    - Amon CMB
  • "If a man walk in the woods for love of them half of each day, he is
    in danger of being regarded as a loafer; but if he spends his whole day
    as a speculator, shearing off those woods and making earth bald before
    her time, he is esteemed an industrious and enterprising citizens As if
    a town had no interest in its forests but to cut them down!"
    - Henry David Thoreau "Life Without Principle," 1854, 1863 (4:457).
  • Where once that comet may have missed the Earth by a small amount, it might now hit the Earth.

    Or, "Where once that comet may have hit the Earth, it might now miss the Earth by a small amount."

    Space is huge. The Earth is very, very, very, very, small.

  • You said: Read the article!

    But then you said: It's not an experiment to see if NASA can deflect comets

    But the article says: The project also aims to see if scientists can alter the orbit of a comet to protect the Earth from falling matter. The impact would alter the comet's orbit by a ``just barely measurable'' 62 to 620 miles (100 to 1,000 km), A'Hearn said.

  • August 3rd, 2005

    After centuries of speculation on the existence of extraterrestrial life, first contact has been made. Unfortunately for humanity, our new visitors seem unfriendly. Thousands of comet-like spacecraft have taken up geosynchronous orbits around Earth. The craft are transmitting strange messages across a wide range of radio frequencies. Early translations seem to indicate that the alien craft are preparing to attack the planet in retaliation for an attack against one of their vessels. Government officials from all space faring nations are denying such an attack. World leaders are now scrambling to to avert war with the aliens, and quite possibly the destruction of the human race...

    "We're doomed!" --C3P0
    Abraxis
  • I can see the Evening News already...

    "And as NASA's bullet hits, we can see the comet move back...and to the left. Back...and to the left. Back...and to the left."

  • Cu (Score:1)

    by gwjc ( 181552 )
    I can't understand why this story originates from Santiago, Chile. Presumably because Cu is Chiles number one export; but so what?
    How much Cu are they planning on using anyway?
    Enough that NASA has to give Chile first notice ;)
  • Headlines in heaven: "Humans Shoot Arch-angel Michael in Head while on a fly-bye. Angelic hosts demand justice."
  • I call on all slashdotters to join the campaign for the targeting of high speed probes against near earth planetary bodies in order to create a spectacular [skypub.com] 1833-like [maa.mhn.de] meteor storm!

    On the other hand, the spectacle of viewing 100,000 meteors per hour might grind society to a halt for a day or so.

  • I really, really, really hope that was meant as flamebait because if it wasn't, then you are just about one of the most idiotic, arrogantly ignorant people I've read on here in a while.

    Educate yourself before spewing all over yourself.
  • This "battery operated" device is actually a "Copper Top" - another case of product placement interfering with good science. THANKS, DURACELL.
  • You'd think that, but then NASA cant even land a probe on Mars right ;-)

    but then what if a heareby unknown comet hit this comet in 10 years time?

  • Actually, studying comets 'queue' spectrographic data is already beeing done from earth or some satellites.

    So I'd bet that a lots of eyes are going to look at the poor comet when they are going to give it it's copper penny.

    OTOH having a closer witness is a good idea, since you have to haul all that copper, a few more silicon should make that much of a difference.

    As for the hardness of the comet, believe me, at such speed snow or granit won't make such a difference, unless you are measuring at a really high frequency, wich is unlikely with such a far-travelling device. It is merely going to help you measure the nearby gravity fields, or if some comet gases are slowing you approach.

  • ...are going to have a heyday with this. I can just imagine the responses... "Hey, you can't just go blasting rocks for something as useless as scientific discovery! Imagine if there are little space micro-organisms that might go extinct!" As if there is a shortage of comets. (asteroids? which was it...?) Well, I'm just glad that most of the environmental wackos still live in California as opposed to, say, Tennessee where I live and there are 3 nukes, 4 hydros and 4 coal-fired power plants within 45 miles of where I live. You can bet that we're going to have electricity out here for a while! 'course, maybe I should be careful, since most of the Slashdot readership is probably living in California and are therefore a bunch of liberal environmental wackos! But don't come chasing me down in Tennessee, I have a gun! Rabbit trails...
  • Couldn't we just send up a bunch of rowdy oil drillers to do the job for us?
  • I knew those Heaven's Gate people were on to something! I guess I should run out and buy some (relatively) low-cost Nikes?
  • Yes, it was, but it was an asteroid not a comet. I'm not sure if the projectile was copper or not.
  • No, but I have heard them use terminology like "hit," "break," "fracture," and "pirate." Wait, that last one might have been "pyrite."

    Would you like it better if they used more technical terms?
  • I didn't say it WOULD cause anything disasterous, and yes I know it would probably take many years before it had any significant effect, I'm just saying I'm more comfortable with them testing it on a comet that is much less likely to have any effect on us whatsoever than on Luna. It's one of those "it's possible but so highly improbable that it's probably not worth worrying about but we might as well play it somewhat safe anyway"
  • I didn't say it WOULD cause anything disasterous, and yes I know it would probably take many years before it had any significant effect, I'm just saying I'm more comfortable with them testing it on a comet that is much less likely to have any effect on us whatsoever than on Luna.

    It's one of those "it's possible but so highly improbable that it's probably not worth worrying about but we might as well play it somewhat safe anyway"
  • I understand the reason for this experiment, though I still think it's pointless, but that's just me and what I belive.
    But I have to say I'd rather they do it on a comet somewhere out there than on, say, the moon, which the
    orbit shifting that it could potentialy cause would have unknown effects on Earth, and possibly other planets in
    our solar system (somehow I'd rather not think about a slight bump that might push the moon on an intersecting
    course with Mars thus causing more rock fragments than are already in our system that could suddenly wind
    up destroying my home town, and possibly a wider area.)
  • Isn't that the same type of thing that caused the dinosaurs to die out? We could be destroying the smartest living thing in the universe that built its own "comet" and is coming to study our sun and after that, let us in on a few "secrets" of the great beyond. But why would we be concerned about anything than expanding our knowledge bank?

  • Is anybody else worried that the title of this project relates so closely to another Deep Impact [imdb.com]?
  • Does anybody know what is the size (weight) of the copper projectile ?

    I think they said something about a BB. I seem to recall them using the word "daisy". .188 caliber.....if I remember correctly.

  • Pamela Anderson used to be a silicon based lifeform.


    "Homo sum: humani nil a me alienum puto"
    (I am a man: nothing human is alien to me)

  • Actually, I imagine that doing damage isn't as important as changing the orbit. If you break an asteroid into pieces you still have to deal with the bigger chunks. Changing the orbit is just a matter of flinging something with enough momentum at it (though it would take a lot of momentum for a large object).


    "Homo sum: humani nil a me alienum puto"
    (I am a man: nothing human is alien to me)

  • Are you all mental? (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I'm shocked that nobody seems to understand why NASA would do this. Read the article! "our main goal is to compare the interior with the surface." Arthur C. Clarke wrote about a similar experiment in 2001 -- except it wasn't copper -- it was some kind of heavy element. Would you guys like sending that stuff up into space better?

    Anyway, the spectral lines of the vapourized material can be analyzed to deterime the chemical composition of the interior of the comet.

    It's not an experiment to see if NASA can deflect comets. If it was, it would be extremely limited because it would only consider the "solid" comets; not the ones that are just big piles of loose matter (of which there are many).

    And the comet would probably lose all that matter anyway on it's trip around the run. When it goes back in the other direction, you likely wouldn't be able to see the football-field crater due to solar "erosion".

    Helloooooooo.........

  • See what happens, we have these health issues after the Balkans from using depleted uranium there. Now even NASA is being limiting to less effective projectiles, i'm sure they could do a lot more damage than that if they were allowed to use some real firepower. Show those commie comets a thing or two.
  • They use copper because it's an unlikely element in the makeup of the commet and can be easily separated out of the spectrums produced. There are other choices but what would people say if it was solid gold? 8^)
  • The question is, did they do their projections in metric or imperial units? ;-)
  • Reminds me of an archeologist from about a hundred years ago that went around Egypt studying ancient pyrimids with dynamite. He drilled a hole in the side of the head of the Sphyinx looking to see if there was a chamber inside, and dammaged it a bit with one blast.

    Of course, this is quite different, but it still seems funny how the old ways come back.
  • Recent NASA press briefings have also hinted at the possibility that in the coming decade one or more NASA scientists will make a journey to the Empire State Building to drop pennies on passersby.

    Current research is exploring various exit strategies to ensure a safe return home. The estimated expenditure for this project is $50,000,000.04 and is expected to launch in 2008

    Kevin Fox
  • And scissors. Eunuchs will be saved, don't you know.

    Dude, he said UNIX, not eunuchs.

    Hope it's not too lake with those scissors.

    Kevin Fox
  • It has been Cape Canaveral for many years. It was renamed Cape Kennedy back in the 60's, but had it's original name returned a number of years ago. The space center is still called the Kennedy Space Center.
  • I'm surprised this didn't get modded up as "Funny". What? You mean you're serious?

    Besides, if NASA learns something from this little exercise, I'm sure they would share the information with all of humanity. If someone else wants the comet so much, they should say so.

  • News flash!

    A copper missile initially intended to strike a comet has missed it's target NASA has revealed. It was subsequently caught in a nearby planets gravitational field and slingshotted onto a direct heading with Earth and is expected to wipe out most of the life in the northern hemisphere. NASA is taking a very scientific stance with this quote: "Ooops!".
  • Some links:

    The copper cylinder will weigh 500kg / 1,100 pounds, and will carry a camera and an infrared spectrometer. The targetted comet is Comet 9P/Tempel 1 [umd.edu].
    --

  • I'm specially curious about its new orbit; any chance that these scientists can knock it into a new trajectory which will collide with earth in about 70 years?

    From Uni Maryland's FAQ (they're working with NASA on this project):

    • Q: If the impactor split the comet, would any debris head towards earth?

    • The orbit of Tempel 1 is at least 0.5 AU (about 46 million miles) from Earth's orbit at their closest points. There is absolutely no possibility of Tempel 1, the Deep Impact comet, getting near the earth. When comets fragment, the pieces also stay in orbits very similar to the orbit of the parent comet. Danger to the earth is from asteroids and comets whose orbits cross the earth's orbit. Tempel 1 never crosses the earth's orbit. The two orbits are totally separate and never cross each other. Tempel 1 can never be pulled into the earth's gravitational field at any time.

      The Deep Impact impactor will just scratch the surface of the comet making a relatively small crater compared to the size of the comet. Even if the comet were to be extremely fragile and break apart, the pieces would still be in the same orbit and would never come close to the earth's orbit.

    As far as the effect on the orbit goes... well, the copper cylinder weighs 500kg and will be going 20,000 mph at the time of impact (source [nasa.gov]). And I guess I don't know the inertia of the comet, or the angle of impact. But from this picture [umd.edu], it looks like the comet will be pushed away from earth. But I guess if that brings it much closer to some other body, the orbit could change further?
    --
  • Does anybody know what is the size (weight) of the copper projectile ?
    That info was missing.

  • From what I can tell from the article they will not destroy the comet but merely 'take it out of its orbit'. It is unfortunate that they didn't give us any more specifications about this comet (size, trajectory, etc) because I can't help wonder what will happen next. Not in the next 'few' years (20 - 50) but period after that in which we can actually *see* the results of this alteration of trajectory.

    I'm specially curious about its new orbit; any chance that these scientists can knock it into a new trajectory which will collide with earth in about 70 years? Has anyone calculated this risk as well?

  • What's next, making a chemical analysis of Martian rock composition from debris thrown up by a nuclear strike on its surface?

    Well ... why not? By all accounts, Mars is just a really big chunk of rock, and nobody's using it at the moment. One crater won't make much of a difference.

    It's the same thing we always go through with environmentalists. There's no reason to be afraid of using natural resources. If we always hold off, afraid that we might damage something, we'll never get anything done. As long as the good (scientific data) outweighs the bad (nothing, as far as we know), we should consider it fair game.

  • Really, that's nothing, shooting at a comet is quite easy, compared to what ESA is going to be doing, there is the Rosetta [esa.int] mission (warning, ESA pages often suck, this one is no exception).

    Rosetta will send probes to land softly on the surface of a comet. I've got a few friends on that project.

  • "IANASBLF (silicon based lifeform).."

    between your sig here, the story & comments at hand and my crazy pre-workday grogginess, a wonderful notion has popped into my head- shooting the comet could be actual murder!

    I've often suspected that the Oort cloud and the comets would be an ideal place for microbial life to develop. if you think about the materials involved and the history of the solar system, it isn't completely out of the question. picture an asteroid impact on earth during the 2 billion years of pre-cambrian-ness here on earth, causing a cloud of organics kicked up into orbit, which is subsquently passed through by a comet. the comet is 'moist' for its proximity to the sun (the outer shell is melting). perhaps inbound comets would simply shed the earth-dust as they approach the sun, but an outbound comet would keep whatever it picks up. this is how they grow.

    After reading this article, I am convinced (not by anything directly mentioned- more by way of intuition) that a comet could in fact be some sort of higher order organism. after billions of years to evolve in a relatively stable envoronment. the entire comet could be an agglomeration of these rugged microbes, acting in unison much like a colony organism (jellyfish, sea anemone, fungusses) or even better, a multicelled creature like you or I. imagine for a moment that each comet is an entire creature, bobbing around in their oort cloud, communicating via vibratory radio fluctuations in their water/carbon/metal selves... mating == collision, and the sun's gravity well is the grim reaper. perhaps there are even predators/prey! we could 'domesticate' predatory comets for orbital protection from asteroids.

    I am off to the stationary store to buy a new quill.

    :)Fudboy
  • The Reuters story is short on details. Full details of the Deep Impact mission can be found at http://www.ss.astro.umd.edu/deepimpact/
  • Of course, it's equally likely that by deflecting it now, it won't colide with Earth in 70 years.

  • I'm quite frankly amazed at the hubris that NASA are showing with this ill-conceived plan! I mean, who in the hell are they do decide that it's alright to blast a 100 foot deep hole in a comet just to gather a little bit of data? The Solar System is supposed to be a common resource for all humanity, not just a load of targets for America to test its fancy guidance systems on, even in the name of science.

    There are better, if more expensive, ways to obtain this data if it is really needed. But there's no excuse for this kind of brute force Rambo method of information gathering, and I'd hate to think that it marks the start of a new phase of "science" whereby we obtain data by blowing things up. What's next, making a chemical analysis of Martian rock composition from debris thrown up by a nuclear strike on its surface?

  • Somewhere some Aliens have found earth on their scanner. By now they know quite a lot about the surface, and now they're sending comets to collide with the earth for some extra readings...
    ---
  • I call on all slashdotters to join the protest against the unjust targeting of high speed probes against such innocent planatery bodies as mars, and this commet. On the other hand its nice to see nasa planning a mission where they _deliberatly_ crash probes as opposed to what usually happens..
  • NASA Comet News:
    Due to outdated computer systems and relying upon Microsoft programs we failed to calculate that shooting the comet will result in a shifting of the orbit so that the comet impacts earth. Unfortunately this was discovered several hours after launch, and we have no way to abort. We apologize for any inconvenience.

  • Flash Spectrogram (Score:3)

    by Archeopteryx ( 4648 ) <benburchNO@SPAMpobox.com> on Wednesday January 17, 2001 @08:35AM (#502483) Homepage
    I suggested a similar mission element to the "Pluto Express" project several years ago. If you slam a heavy material into a solid body fast enough, you vaporize the surface and immediate subsurface layers, and heat them enough to radiate briefly as a black body. This radiation can be captured by a spectrograph, and provide an assay of the materal present.

    I doubt this really has much to do with the art of deflecting comets, but certainly that could be a side benefit of the real experiment.

    A comet, being an active body, is not a good target for an automated lander. Too much can go wrong in an automated descent and the rount trip light time is generally too long to do anything about issues which arise.

    A passive impactor is much more likely to succeed.

  • Re:Many reasons for this experiment... but... (Score:3)

    by FFFish ( 7567 ) on Wednesday January 17, 2001 @08:22AM (#502484) Homepage
    Many reasons for this experiment... but the most obvious one is this:

    NASA is run by men.

    I mean, come on! What guy reading this article didn't get a hard-on at the idea of, basically, slamming a volkswagon beetle travelling 20 000mph into solid rock? This is way fucking better than dropping old computer monitors from the top of a building, shooting old hard drives with armour-piercing bullets or taking a sledgehammer to the laser printer!

    Now, if *women* were running NASA, we'd have all sorts of namby-pamby cuddling stuff. Blast hell out of a comet? Dear, no, let's capture it and bring it back to earth! Smash a comet that's going to strike the earth? My, my, no! Let's attach booster rockets to it, and redirect the poor thing!

    Rock on, NASA! Beat shit outta stuff for us -- just make sure you take lotsa pictures!


    --

  • Another good reason for doing this. (Score:3)

    by Christopher Thomas ( 11717 ) on Wednesday January 17, 2001 @08:53AM (#502485)
    First, just to make sure we all know this: The primary purpose of this mission is to determine the interior composition of the comet. Any ballistics experiments are just useful side effects.

    For the environmentalists - remember that this comet is going to boil away into nothingness in a few million years anyways.

    Secondly, this is important to The Rest Of Us because we hope to be *mining* objects like this some day. Small objects in the solar system tend to fall into one of only a handful of composition categories, and this probe will let us get good prospecting data on one such category.

  • In a related story... (Score:3)

    by zCyl ( 14362 ) on Wednesday January 17, 2001 @02:38AM (#502486)
    After testing it on the comet, Nasa plans on using this technology to properly remove Janet Reno from office.

  • Re:Accelerator Envy (Score:3)

    by interiot ( 50685 ) on Wednesday January 17, 2001 @09:40AM (#502487) Homepage
    From the FAQ [umd.edu]:
    • Copper was chosen because it will cause the least interference with the measurements that will be made during the impact, will not leave a residue that would confuse potential future measurements, and can be made into a structurally strong impactor. In particular, all the inner shells of electrons for copper are completely filled. This means that it reacts very slowly with other elements, such as with the oxygen in cometary water, and it will end up producing relatively few bright emission lines in the spectrum of the vaporized materials. Other materials such as aluminum would produce far more and stronger emission lines (mostly due to aluminum oxides). There are only a few materials that satisfy this criterion and copper is the least expensive of them that is structurally sound. The material used to make the impactor is actually a copper alloy with about 3% beryllium to make the copper more stiff.

    --

  • Re:Better there than here. (Score:4)

    by grantdh ( 72401 ) on Wednesday January 17, 2001 @03:41AM (#502488) Homepage Journal
    If we were to relocate the moon such that it wound up impacting with Mars, we'd be worrying about a LOT more than just a few rock fragments that would eventually reach us. I for one would be worrying about:

    1. Hey, where did that big glowing thing in the sky go?

    2. They used *how much* force to do that?

    3. Why is the earth wobbling in its orbit?

    4. Where did all the tides go?

    Mind you, this didn't stop Gerry Anderson making a rather neat (for the 70's :) science fiction show on TV. Go SPACE-1999 - I always wanted an Eagle to ride to school in :)

  • "the cupid-should-be-so-equipped dept" (Score:4)

    by TDScott ( 260197 ) on Wednesday January 17, 2001 @02:24AM (#502489)

    " from the cupid-should-be-so-equipped dept "

    Um ... yes ... I'm sure he would want to shoot a crater the size of a football field where two people were a moment ago.

    "Darling, it felt like the earth moved..."
    "It did."

  • Nasa continues to wage unjust war on solar bodies. (Score:5)

    by VC ( 89143 ) on Wednesday January 17, 2001 @02:26AM (#502490)
    I call on all slashdotters to join the protest against the unjust targeting of high speed probes against such innocent planatery bodies as mars, and this commet.

    On the other hand its nice to see nasa planning a mission where they _deliberatly_ crash probes as opposed to what usually happens..

  • Many reasons for this experiment... but... (Score:5)

    by evil_one ( 142582 ) on Wednesday January 17, 2001 @02:30AM (#502491) Homepage
    The most obvious one is pretty simple: There are a lot of near-earth asteroids, and a armageddon-like one is actually not all that improbable. By playing with a comet like this, NASA can determine a few things
    a) Can we shoot a comet with a rocket
    b) what kind of damage can we expect the rocket to do
    c) weither or not firing a nuke at an asteroid is a viable option in a armageddon senario
    d) how much money we can spend on weird crap and get away with it

    I'm only partially joking about d.
    ---

  • Re:What?! (Score:5)

    by American AC in Paris ( 230456 ) on Wednesday January 17, 2001 @05:28AM (#502492) Homepage
    I'm quite frankly amazed at the hubris that NASA are showing with this ill-conceived plan! I mean, who in the hell are they do decide that it's alright to blast a 100 foot deep hole in a comet just to gather a little bit of data? The Solar System is supposed to be a common resource for all humanity, not just a load of targets for America to test its fancy guidance systems on, even in the name of science.

    Actually, there's an amazingly charitable basis behind NASA's actions. Read on to learn what these champions of Universal Matter Suffrage are really up to.

    Every day, over 400 metric tons of matter are shamelessly ripped from their peaceful trajectories and deposited on the Earth. This has been happening for billions of years, without any consideration whatsoever for the wishes and general well-being of the matter in question. We understand today that all space rocks have an inherent and fundamental right to exist free of unwanted interference from outside influences, and for the first time in our history, we are actually taking steps to end this brutality.

    Now, if NASA can glean enough information from this comet collision, it stands a chance of being able to develop systems to prevent the Earth from enslaving these 400 tons of previously free-drifting, independant matter. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize the ramifications of their endeavors.

    NASA's hope is that by sacrificing some matter one one comet, they can hopefully prevent countless other cases of senseless, unseen matter abuse. It was a decision they did not come to lightly, but rest assured, NASA is taking every step it can to stop the Earth's rampant interference in the workings of the universe once and for all.

    Fnord.

    information wants to be expensive...nothing is so valuable as the right information at the right time.

  • Accelerator Envy (Score:5)

    by markmoss ( 301064 ) on Wednesday January 17, 2001 @04:11AM (#502493)
    Nuclear physicists quite routinely ask the government for extremely large amounts of money to build an accelerator out of exotic materials, just to smash something. Sounds like NASA wants to get into that game. 8-)

    Seriously, they want to see what's inside the comet. The surface doesn't seem stable enough to land a drilling rig, and it's probably not safe to even fly near the comet (pieces keep breaking off). So instead, you shoot a hole in it from a safe distance.

    Why copper? The projectile materials are going to show up in the readings, so you use something that is quite unlikely to actually be in there to start with. Not iron, that's a common component of rocks. You don't use platinum or uranium because their presence in the comet even in minute quantities would be quite interesting. You don't use lead because sometimes lead traces are a product of the radioactive decay of uranium, and so you need to measure the ratio of lead to uranium if possible. Copper is the most reasonably priced dense metal left.

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