Why is everyone losing their shit over this? We _already_ have shot records, and they _already_ have to be provided to school in order to enroll. Some international travel _already_ requires vaccination records.
In the words of the great Star Lord... "everybody chill the F out".
Why is everyone losing their shit over this? We _already_ have shot records, and they _already_ have to be provided to school in order to enroll.
Are you serious? This is has been a politically contentious issue with people losing their shit on both sides for decades. Laws are all over the place to show for it from state to state with ballot measures on this topic regularly making appearances.
Some international travel _already_ requires vaccination records.
Not really.
If you are a US citizen you are required to have yellow fever vaccination to go to Angola, Cameroon, CAR, DRC, Congo, Cote D'ivoire, Ghana, Guinea, Honduras, Mali, Niger, Togo.
Oh and meningitis vaccine for travel to KSA for Hajj.
Otherwise there are a whole host of country specific recommendations to protect travelers. People tend to conflate the two into requirements when no such thing effectively exists.
In the words of the great Star Lord... "everybody chill the F out".
Everyone who will want vaccination will have access to it in US in a few months time so what's even the benefit to anyone in any of this?
How will this be used? Who will be asking for vaccination papers and what will the limits if any be? If someone is not vaccinated will they be denied access to employment, supermarkets, travel? Will life be made so miserable that they are effectively forced to be vaccinated? Nobody knows what passports mean or how they will be used. If people feel strongly about vaccination benefits to society then they should be advocating laws on the front end to force people to get shots under threat of violence rather than perusing backdoor attempts to accomplish something you don't have the legitimacy to pull off the right way.
> Will life be made so miserable that they are effectively forced to be vaccinated?
One can only hope. People seem to think it's "my body, my choice" when this is not the case. You don't get to choose to expose other people to potentially fatal illnesses.
One can only hope. People seem to think it's "my body, my choice" when this is not the case. You don't get to choose to expose other people to potentially fatal illnesses.
Yes we do albeit typically unknowingly. People are exposed to potentially fatal illnesses spread by other people all the time and many thousands die yearly as a result.
Notions of both risk and responsibility are bidirectional. Nobody is entitled to absolute safety. Nobody is entitled to absolute freedom. You chose to go out into the public knowing you could get hit by a car, shot or exposed to other peoples germs the same as the person next to you has done. Both parties to existence in any society concu
Every one of the available COVID-19 vaccines in the West anyway and probably the Russia and Chinese ones too are the products of abortion. When did those victims get a choice about their body?
It was immoral to profit from medical research when the Nazi's killed and maimed unwilling participants; its immoral NOW!
Most people are ignorant of all this because there is a major effort to keep them that way. I have am not ignorant and I don't want to willing take a vaccine created by killing someone else. That i
Every one of the available COVID-19 vaccines in the West anyway and probably the Russia and Chinese ones too are the products of abortion. When did those victims get a choice about their body?
You can choose not to use products of abortion, but even in the United States, society will eventually not let you choose to do so. The SCotUS allows abortion; they're going to allow society to isolate you if you 're not vaccinated. Enjoy your lifestyle choice as a marginalized person.
Mind you, I do prefer society not require to vaccinate you at the point of a gun, but a gun will not be necessary to expel you from society.
To be clear, they only think 'my body, my choice' when it's convenient. They think vaccination is a private choice to be made for their own reasons. It's how you know that pro-life is actually anti-woman.
My position is simply that the rights of the woman trump the rights of an embryo or fetus. If it were only about protecting the unborn you'd see them clamoring for more sex education and contraception. The best way to stop abortion is to prevent unwanted pregnancies.
What I hate is a bunch of do gooders who fell for a plot to mobilize them into a voting bloc to prop up the Republican party. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.go... [nih.gov]
The child in a pregnant's woman body is not her body
The fetus in the pregnant woman's body is not a child, its a batch of cells with the potential to be a child. If miscarriage is physically the same as an abortion, then how is it acceptable for God to be the universe's most profligate abortionist?
From Keith Moore T. V. N. Persaud Mark Torchi: The Developing Human, 11th Edition, Clinically Oriented Embryology, p.11:
Human development begins at fertilization when a male gamete or sperm unites with a female gamete or oocyte to form a single cell, a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marks the beginning of each of us as a unique individual.
How did you reach the conclusion that a fetus is just "a batch of cells"? Is a human just "a batch of cells"?
If miscarriage is physically the same as an abortion, then how is it acceptable for God to be the universe's most profligate abortionist?
This discussion is about people killing other people and making lame excuses in an attempt to cover their guilt, as well as proposing laws to the same effect. The quotation above makes sense in this context only if you consider yourself God, in which case we have nothing else to dis
From Keith Moore T. V. N. Persaud Mark Torchi [...]This highly specialized, totipotent cell marks the beginning of each of us as a unique individual.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Neither do scientists purporting a quality to a physical phenomenon which doesn't apply; an individual at least has to demonstrate some form of identity, or else they're just a living corpse.
How did you reach the conclusion that a fetus is just "a batch of cells"? Is a human just "a batch of cells"?
How? Because that's what they are. A fetus is not a human being, because a human being is capable of being human, or at least able to survive indefinitely outside of its womb without extensive mechanical or biological interventio
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
We agree. However, such statements that are not related to this discussion and your reluctance to answer my previous questions make me wonder if there's any point in continuing this.
Neither do scientists purporting a quality to a physical phenomenon which doesn't apply; an individual at least has to demonstrate some form of identity, or else they're just a living corpse. A fetus is not a human being, because a human being is capable of being human, or at least able to survive indefinitely outside of its womb without extensive mechanical or biological intervention.
So, you're saying that scientists cannot decide if someone is human. Also, you're saying that Christians cannot decide this. Then, who can? Are unconscious people human? According to your statement above, they're not. Is there anything you've said so far that makes any sense? I'll let the ones who read this decide. By the way, a
The social conservatives outright dismiss any ideas around preventing unwanted pregnancy except abstinence. If you are so against abortion, get your ass out there and protest the dumbing down of sex education, the obstacles to getting contraception and the fighting against a good social safety net. At around the time kids start thinking about sex they should be taught how it works and what it's about. None of this scared straight crap that wrecks their chances of healthy relationships later. Make sure a
I agree people on the right should see the benefit of horrible parents eliminating unwanted children, it obvious from the dramatic increase in single-motherhood that the welfare state is not a solution for parents who don't want to take responsibility, it anti-man; murder is then next best option. This is actually the funniest thing I found living in California, the number of people who march for murdering unborn humans but march against the murder of unwanted animals.
People seem to think it's "my body, my choice" when this is not the case
Its only "my body, my choice" when they live outside of civilization. When they live in US civilization, they can advocate for the "right" to be a disease carrier, but that bullshit is not going to fly. They can flee to some backwater of like minded idiots in Alabama or Florida, but the need to work a job or go buy groceries will shutdown that shit quick.
If you are a US citizen you are required to have yellow fever vaccination to go to Angola, Cameroon, CAR, DRC, Congo, Cote D'ivoire, Ghana, Guinea, Honduras, Mali, Niger, Togo.
Oh and meningitis vaccine for travel to KSA for Hajj.
Otherwise there are a whole host of country specific recommendations to protect travelers. People tend to conflate the two into requirements when no such thing effectively exists. You are confusing me. Is it now required, or not?
Other countries have those requirements. So if you want to enter another country, they require vaccination.
The US has some vaccination requirements for non-citizens if they want to become permanent residents. As far as I know the government cannot mandate vaccines on adults.
Everyone who will want vaccination will have access to it in US in a few months time so what's even the benefit to anyone in any of this?
You've answered your own question: the problem is that there is a huge percentage of people who will refuse the vaccine. Why these people want to prevent us from reaching herd-immunity is anyone's guess, but that's essentially the consequence of that choice.
How will this be used? Who will be asking for vaccination papers and what will the limits if any be? If someone is not vaccinated will they be denied access to employment, supermarkets, travel? Will life be made so miserable that they are effectively forced to be vaccinated? Nobody knows what passports mean or how they will be used. If people feel strongly about vaccination benefits to society then they should be advocating laws on the front end to force people to get shots under threat of violence rather than perusing backdoor attempts to accomplish something you don't have the legitimacy to pull off the right way.
You make this sound insurmountable, when we have existing examples of common-sense rules to guide us. Schools and camps require proof of MMR vaccination, airlines do not. Per your example, yellow fever vaccination is required to travel in high-risk pa
Trying to be happy is like trying to build a machine for which the only
specification is that it should run noiselessly.
And in related news (Score:5, Insightful)
Rest of world bans Floridians from traveling there.
Re: (Score:0, Troll)
Papers, pls?
Just another potential totalitarian move from Big Tech and the Democrats.
Re: (Score:5, Insightful)
We _already_ have shot records, and they _already_ have to be provided to school in order to enroll.
Some international travel _already_ requires vaccination records.
In the words of the great Star Lord... "everybody chill the F out".
Re:And in related news (Score:3, Insightful)
Why is everyone losing their shit over this?
We _already_ have shot records, and they _already_ have to be provided to school in order to enroll.
Are you serious? This is has been a politically contentious issue with people losing their shit on both sides for decades. Laws are all over the place to show for it from state to state with ballot measures on this topic regularly making appearances.
Some international travel _already_ requires vaccination records.
Not really.
If you are a US citizen you are required to have yellow fever vaccination to go to Angola, Cameroon, CAR, DRC, Congo, Cote D'ivoire, Ghana, Guinea, Honduras, Mali, Niger, Togo.
Oh and meningitis vaccine for travel to KSA for Hajj.
Otherwise there are a whole host of country specific recommendations to protect travelers. People tend to conflate the two into requirements when no such thing effectively exists.
In the words of the great Star Lord... "everybody chill the F out".
Everyone who will want vaccination will have access to it in US in a few months time so what's even the benefit to anyone in any of this?
How will this be used? Who will be asking for vaccination papers and what will the limits if any be? If someone is not vaccinated will they be denied access to employment, supermarkets, travel? Will life be made so miserable that they are effectively forced to be vaccinated? Nobody knows what passports mean or how they will be used. If people feel strongly about vaccination benefits to society then they should be advocating laws on the front end to force people to get shots under threat of violence rather than perusing backdoor attempts to accomplish something you don't have the legitimacy to pull off the right way.
Re: (Score:1)
One can only hope. People seem to think it's "my body, my choice" when this is not the case. You don't get to choose to expose other people to potentially fatal illnesses.
Re: (Score:2)
One can only hope. People seem to think it's "my body, my choice" when this is not the case. You don't get to choose to expose other people to potentially fatal illnesses.
Yes we do albeit typically unknowingly. People are exposed to potentially fatal illnesses spread by other people all the time and many thousands die yearly as a result.
Notions of both risk and responsibility are bidirectional. Nobody is entitled to absolute safety. Nobody is entitled to absolute freedom. You chose to go out into the public knowing you could get hit by a car, shot or exposed to other peoples germs the same as the person next to you has done. Both parties to existence in any society concu
Re: (Score:1)
Every one of the available COVID-19 vaccines in the West anyway and probably the Russia and Chinese ones too are the products of abortion. When did those victims get a choice about their body?
It was immoral to profit from medical research when the Nazi's killed and maimed unwilling participants; its immoral NOW!
Most people are ignorant of all this because there is a major effort to keep them that way. I have am not ignorant and I don't want to willing take a vaccine created by killing someone else. That i
Re: (Score:2)
Every one of the available COVID-19 vaccines in the West anyway and probably the Russia and Chinese ones too are the products of abortion. When did those victims get a choice about their body?
You can choose not to use products of abortion, but even in the United States, society will eventually not let you choose to do so. The SCotUS allows abortion; they're going to allow society to isolate you if you 're not vaccinated. Enjoy your lifestyle choice as a marginalized person.
Mind you, I do prefer society not require to vaccinate you at the point of a gun, but a gun will not be necessary to expel you from society.
Re:And in related news (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
are you stupidly high or highly stupid?
you misuse terms and appeal to emotion far more than expected for an issue that should have been closed decades ago
Re: (Score:2)
But you fail to realize your statement can be applied to either side, which makes you, at least linguistically, stupid.
Re: (Score:3)
What I hate is a bunch of do gooders who fell for a plot to mobilize them into a voting bloc to prop up the Republican party. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.go... [nih.gov]
Re: (Score:2)
The child in a pregnant's woman body is not her body
The fetus in the pregnant woman's body is not a child, its a batch of cells with the potential to be a child. If miscarriage is physically the same as an abortion, then how is it acceptable for God to be the universe's most profligate abortionist?
Re: (Score:1)
Human development begins at fertilization when a male gamete or sperm unites with a female gamete or oocyte to form a single cell, a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marks the beginning of each of us as a unique individual.
How did you reach the conclusion that a fetus is just "a batch of cells"? Is a human just "a batch of cells"?
If miscarriage is physically the same as an abortion, then how is it acceptable for God to be the universe's most profligate abortionist?
This discussion is about people killing other people and making lame excuses in an attempt to cover their guilt, as well as proposing laws to the same effect. The quotation above makes sense in this context only if you consider yourself God, in which case we have nothing else to dis
Re: (Score:2)
From Keith Moore T. V. N. Persaud Mark Torchi [...]This highly specialized, totipotent cell marks the beginning of each of us as a unique individual.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Neither do scientists purporting a quality to a physical phenomenon which doesn't apply; an individual at least has to demonstrate some form of identity, or else they're just a living corpse.
How did you reach the conclusion that a fetus is just "a batch of cells"? Is a human just "a batch of cells"?
How? Because that's what they are. A fetus is not a human being, because a human being is capable of being human, or at least able to survive indefinitely outside of its womb without extensive mechanical or biological interventio
Re: (Score:1)
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
We agree. However, such statements that are not related to this discussion and your reluctance to answer my previous questions make me wonder if there's any point in continuing this.
Neither do scientists purporting a quality to a physical phenomenon which doesn't apply; an individual at least has to demonstrate some form of identity, or else they're just a living corpse. A fetus is not a human being, because a human being is capable of being human, or at least able to survive indefinitely outside of its womb without extensive mechanical or biological intervention.
So, you're saying that scientists cannot decide if someone is human. Also, you're saying that Christians cannot decide this. Then, who can? Are unconscious people human? According to your statement above, they're not. Is there anything you've said so far that makes any sense? I'll let the ones who read this decide. By the way, a
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
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Be careful when presuming how other people think.
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People seem to think it's "my body, my choice" when this is not the case
Its only "my body, my choice" when they live outside of civilization. When they live in US civilization, they can advocate for the "right" to be a disease carrier, but that bullshit is not going to fly. They can flee to some backwater of like minded idiots in Alabama or Florida, but the need to work a job or go buy groceries will shutdown that shit quick.
Re: (Score:2)
If you are a US citizen you are required to have yellow fever vaccination to go to Angola, Cameroon, CAR, DRC, Congo, Cote D'ivoire, Ghana, Guinea, Honduras, Mali, Niger, Togo.
Oh and meningitis vaccine for travel to KSA for Hajj.
Otherwise there are a whole host of country specific recommendations to protect travelers. People tend to conflate the two into requirements when no such thing effectively exists.
You are confusing me.
Is it now required, or not?
Re: (Score:2)
People tend to conflate the two into requirements when no such thing effectively exists. You are confusing me. Is it now required, or not?
Yes it exists in the listed countries, no it is not relevant because vast majority of US citizens will never be exposed to the requirement.
Re: And in related news (Score:1)
Other countries have those requirements. So if you want to enter another country, they require vaccination.
The US has some vaccination requirements for non-citizens if they want to become permanent residents. As far as I know the government cannot mandate vaccines on adults.
Re: (Score:2)
The US has some vaccination requirements for non-citizens if they want to become permanent residents.
and
As far as I know the government cannot mandate vaccines on adults.
Seem to contradict each other.
Re: (Score:2)
Everyone who will want vaccination will have access to it in US in a few months time so what's even the benefit to anyone in any of this?
You've answered your own question: the problem is that there is a huge percentage of people who will refuse the vaccine. Why these people want to prevent us from reaching herd-immunity is anyone's guess, but that's essentially the consequence of that choice.
How will this be used? Who will be asking for vaccination papers and what will the limits if any be? If someone is not vaccinated will they be denied access to employment, supermarkets, travel? Will life be made so miserable that they are effectively forced to be vaccinated? Nobody knows what passports mean or how they will be used. If people feel strongly about vaccination benefits to society then they should be advocating laws on the front end to force people to get shots under threat of violence rather than perusing backdoor attempts to accomplish something you don't have the legitimacy to pull off the right way.
You make this sound insurmountable, when we have existing examples of common-sense rules to guide us. Schools and camps require proof of MMR vaccination, airlines do not. Per your example, yellow fever vaccination is required to travel in high-risk pa