Why is everyone losing their shit over this? We _already_ have shot records, and they _already_ have to be provided to school in order to enroll. Some international travel _already_ requires vaccination records.
In the words of the great Star Lord... "everybody chill the F out".
Why is everyone losing their shit over this?
We _already_ have shot records, and they _already_ have to be provided to school in order to enroll.
Some international travel _already_ requires vaccination records.
In the words of the great Star Lord... "everybody chill the F out".
You think this is something public health authorities wanted to do?
The alternative is to keep stuff closed. We can’t go back to normal until we vaccinate enough people and quarantine, vaccine passports are a way to let things open earlier.
You don't have to. Its merely a bar code with an encrypted key, at least in NY (Excelsior Pass [ny.gov]).
Soon, grocery stores and restaurants may choose not allow filthy, infested disease carriers like yourself into their establishments, or have the choice to do business with you.
The difference being that anyone can get a TB vaccine within a few days at minimal cost. Very very few people have a medical reason not to get one.
COVID vaccines are in short supply and I probably won't get mine until near the end of this year. Many more people can't get one for medical reasons, e.g. pregnancy.
So while I'm absolutely for everyone getting a vaccine as soon as possible, in the short term it's creating a big divide between those who have and those who haven't.
COVID vaccines are in short supply and I probably won't get mine until near the end of this year
Where do you live? Europe?
By next week, the US will give the green light for anyone over 16 to apply for the covid shot appointment. In NY state, they're booked to the end of May, but that's still earlier than I or the CDC anticipated at the beginning of the year. Very soon, there will be plenty of vaccine, but 30% of the population will refuse to take it.
Many more people can't get one for medical reasons, e.g. pregnancy.
The vaccine researchers are already studying it, and they're quite optimistic about getting vaccine approval soon. Other than pregnancy, age, allergy
Israel has been giving the vaccine to pregnant women ever since a fetus was born dead due to COVID. (I think that was the case. Definitely some COVID-related medical problem with a pregnancy.) No issues yet, and all mothers and babies have been fine.
The proposed standards for "Vaccine Passports" is something that can be readily verified by anyone.
Verifying a vaccine record from your doctor requires contacting your doctor and getting them to cooperate in releasing at least some of your medical records to some anonymous, non-medical cold caller. This usually means you, as the owner of your medical information, need to sign a release granting the doctor permission to share it your records with someone else... and you'd need to sign such a document for literally everyone who needs to verify your record, every time.
New York State has just recently rolled out a passport system for entry into event venues: You present your smartphone or printed document with a QR code, the person scans it and gets near instant proof from the state's vaccine registry that you've gotten your shots without violating HIPAA laws, signing releases or having to divulge personal information to random security guards. =Smidge=
What keeps me from photocopying my friends QR code in the NYS system?
The bar code will be scanned, and your driver license identity won't match the bar code. It makes me wonder if they will require a photo soon when applying for the pass.
Not at all. But NYS's system seems prone to a lot of bad decisions. It looks like it can leak people's personal information, etc. My ideal would be a card with a picture and a hologram (or whatever makes it hard to duplicate).
There are big logistical problems with vaccine passports.
There are multiple vaccines. Some provide >90% immunity, some only 75%. We don't know how long any of them last yet, so can't put an expiry date on the passport. There is also a start-up period, in the first few weeks after vaccination it doesn't provide the full level of protection.
We also don't know how infectious the vaccinated are, i.e. if they can infect non-vaccinated people.
There are questions over privacy and fairness too. For example travel insurance companies might require vaccination for cover, but if AZ only gives you 75% protection will they be allowed to ask and use that to charge you a higher premium than someone who got Pfizer?
Or how about if you got a Chinese vaccine and the US doesn't recognize it, or vice-versa? Even between the EU and US there are differences in which vaccines have been approved for use.
None of this is insurmountable but it needs some very careful consideration.
75% immunity is good enough for a passport, particular as the protection against serious cases seems to be better than the protection against any infection.
I doubt that he's referring to how the outbreak is being handled. I'm pretty sure he's referring to the fact that many countries are complaining about how many vaccines the US has and how little it has shared. When you want something that someone else has produced, and then complain about not getting any, I'd call that envy too.
However, I'd say "the world" was a gross exaggeration. Countries like Australia who are mostly producing their own vaccine obviously aren't going to care.
Stupid-ass culture war, it's a way of getting people to support unpopular policies:
1. Get your supporters riled up into the dumbass tribal game of culture war where the game is won by pwning the other guys at whatever you've chosen to fight over 2. Start with some goals they actually like 3. Start mixing in unpopular policies, more and more over time, even if the only thing keeping your own team from hating them as much as the other team does is the fact that they're a goal for your team 4. Eventually the goal
That Dr. Seuss thing was definitely unwarranted. There was no intentional racism. What was happening was caricature. So oriental skin color is typically different from that of most US people, so you exaggerate it and include a few iconic features (e.g. chopsticks) to indicate rapidly and without words the kind of people you're referring to. There's nothing inherently demeaning about eating with chopsticks (I do it frequently myself), but it's iconically oriental. Unless you consider being oriental bad
Dr. Seuss would disagree with you. He eventually realized it was racist and revised the Chinese man in the 70s in an effort to make it less offensive.
He started his career making extremely racist political cartoons.He eventually realized it was wrong, and decided to make children's books in an effort to do something good. And as he got older, he realized there was still racism in some of his works, and made some efforts to reduce it.
I think you validate my assertion that it wasn't intentionally racist. And my judgement that it wasn't actually racist is based on my reaction as a child when I read the books. Not a large sample, I admit, but to me it was just a characterization. I might have read it as "Chinese tend to be poor peasants", but I didn't.
And Protip: YOU ate the only one implying hate. I can draw yellow people with straw hats and slit eyes and chopsticks that can't pronounce Rs and Ls all day, and not have one shred of hate for east-Asians in me.
YOU on the onther hand, are a hatefuly bigotedy prejudiced discriminating terrorist bully, who deloberately and systematically "finds" hate literally *everywhere* so he can bully and hate and terrorize people, just like bullies and racists in the ol
Of course, there's no rational reason to get worked up over one more vaccine. It's just another excuse for the right-wingers to pretend to be outraged in order to manipulate their supporters.
And in many places you don't need to show proof of vaccines anyway. They say you do and act as if you do, but then have an exemption if you have a religious or philosophical reason for not wanting to vaccinate your kids. So it's really a wink and a nod. I moved from Virginia to Texas when my daughter was in fifth grade and the school here said they required her immunization records. She had all of her shots, but didn't have any actual written records, so requested them from her pediatrician in Virginia.
Why is everyone losing their shit over this? We _already_ have shot records, and they _already_ have to be provided to school in order to enroll.
Are you serious? This is has been a politically contentious issue with people losing their shit on both sides for decades. Laws are all over the place to show for it from state to state with ballot measures on this topic regularly making appearances.
Some international travel _already_ requires vaccination records.
Not really.
If you are a US citizen you are required to have yellow fever vaccination to go to Angola, Cameroon, CAR, DRC, Congo, Cote D'ivoire, Ghana, Guinea, Honduras, Mali, Niger, Togo.
Oh and meningitis vaccine for travel to KSA for Hajj.
> Will life be made so miserable that they are effectively forced to be vaccinated?
One can only hope. People seem to think it's "my body, my choice" when this is not the case. You don't get to choose to expose other people to potentially fatal illnesses.
One can only hope. People seem to think it's "my body, my choice" when this is not the case. You don't get to choose to expose other people to potentially fatal illnesses.
Yes we do albeit typically unknowingly. People are exposed to potentially fatal illnesses spread by other people all the time and many thousands die yearly as a result.
Notions of both risk and responsibility are bidirectional. Nobody is entitled to absolute safety. Nobody is entitled to absolute freedom. You chose to go out into the public knowing you could get hit by a car, shot or exposed to other peoples germs the same as the person next to you has done. Both parties to existence in any society concu
Every one of the available COVID-19 vaccines in the West anyway and probably the Russia and Chinese ones too are the products of abortion. When did those victims get a choice about their body?
It was immoral to profit from medical research when the Nazi's killed and maimed unwilling participants; its immoral NOW!
Most people are ignorant of all this because there is a major effort to keep them that way. I have am not ignorant and I don't want to willing take a vaccine created by killing someone else. That i
Every one of the available COVID-19 vaccines in the West anyway and probably the Russia and Chinese ones too are the products of abortion. When did those victims get a choice about their body?
You can choose not to use products of abortion, but even in the United States, society will eventually not let you choose to do so. The SCotUS allows abortion; they're going to allow society to isolate you if you 're not vaccinated. Enjoy your lifestyle choice as a marginalized person.
Mind you, I do prefer society not require to vaccinate you at the point of a gun, but a gun will not be necessary to expel you from society.
To be clear, they only think 'my body, my choice' when it's convenient. They think vaccination is a private choice to be made for their own reasons. It's how you know that pro-life is actually anti-woman.
My position is simply that the rights of the woman trump the rights of an embryo or fetus. If it were only about protecting the unborn you'd see them clamoring for more sex education and contraception. The best way to stop abortion is to prevent unwanted pregnancies.
What I hate is a bunch of do gooders who fell for a plot to mobilize them into a voting bloc to prop up the Republican party. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.go... [nih.gov]
The child in a pregnant's woman body is not her body
The fetus in the pregnant woman's body is not a child, its a batch of cells with the potential to be a child. If miscarriage is physically the same as an abortion, then how is it acceptable for God to be the universe's most profligate abortionist?
From Keith Moore T. V. N. Persaud Mark Torchi: The Developing Human, 11th Edition, Clinically Oriented Embryology, p.11:
Human development begins at fertilization when a male gamete or sperm unites with a female gamete or oocyte to form a single cell, a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marks the beginning of each of us as a unique individual.
How did you reach the conclusion that a fetus is just "a batch of cells"? Is a human just "a batch of cells"?
If miscarriage is physically the same as an abortion, then how is it acceptable for God to be the universe's most profligate abortionist?
This discussion is about people killing other people and making lame excuses in an attempt to cover their guilt, as well as proposing laws to the same effect. The quotation above makes sense in this context only if you consider yourself God, in which case we have nothing else to dis
From Keith Moore T. V. N. Persaud Mark Torchi [...]This highly specialized, totipotent cell marks the beginning of each of us as a unique individual.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Neither do scientists purporting a quality to a physical phenomenon which doesn't apply; an individual at least has to demonstrate some form of identity, or else they're just a living corpse.
How did you reach the conclusion that a fetus is just "a batch of cells"? Is a human just "a batch of cells"?
How? Because that's what they are. A fetus is not a human being, because a human being is capable of being human, or at least able to survive indefinitely outside of its womb without extensive mechanical or biological interventio
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
We agree. However, such statements that are not related to this discussion and your reluctance to answer my previous questions make me wonder if there's any point in continuing this.
Neither do scientists purporting a quality to a physical phenomenon which doesn't apply; an individual at least has to demonstrate some form of identity, or else they're just a living corpse. A fetus is not a human being, because a human being is capable of being human, or at least able to survive indefinitely outside of its womb without extensive mechanical or biological intervention.
So, you're saying that scientists cannot decide if someone is human. Also, you're saying that Christians cannot decide this. Then, who can? Are unconscious people human? According to your statement above, they're not. Is there anything you've said so far that makes any sense? I'll let the ones who read this decide. By the way, a
The social conservatives outright dismiss any ideas around preventing unwanted pregnancy except abstinence. If you are so against abortion, get your ass out there and protest the dumbing down of sex education, the obstacles to getting contraception and the fighting against a good social safety net. At around the time kids start thinking about sex they should be taught how it works and what it's about. None of this scared straight crap that wrecks their chances of healthy relationships later. Make sure a
I agree people on the right should see the benefit of horrible parents eliminating unwanted children, it obvious from the dramatic increase in single-motherhood that the welfare state is not a solution for parents who don't want to take responsibility, it anti-man; murder is then next best option. This is actually the funniest thing I found living in California, the number of people who march for murdering unborn humans but march against the murder of unwanted animals.
People seem to think it's "my body, my choice" when this is not the case
Its only "my body, my choice" when they live outside of civilization. When they live in US civilization, they can advocate for the "right" to be a disease carrier, but that bullshit is not going to fly. They can flee to some backwater of like minded idiots in Alabama or Florida, but the need to work a job or go buy groceries will shutdown that shit quick.
If you are a US citizen you are required to have yellow fever vaccination to go to Angola, Cameroon, CAR, DRC, Congo, Cote D'ivoire, Ghana, Guinea, Honduras, Mali, Niger, Togo.
Oh and meningitis vaccine for travel to KSA for Hajj.
Otherwise there are a whole host of country specific recommendations to protect travelers. People tend to conflate the two into requirements when no such thing effectively exists. You are confusing me. Is it now required, or not?
Other countries have those requirements. So if you want to enter another country, they require vaccination.
The US has some vaccination requirements for non-citizens if they want to become permanent residents. As far as I know the government cannot mandate vaccines on adults.
Everyone who will want vaccination will have access to it in US in a few months time so what's even the benefit to anyone in any of this?
You've answered your own question: the problem is that there is a huge percentage of people who will refuse the vaccine. Why these people want to prevent us from reaching herd-immunity is anyone's guess, but that's essentially the consequence of that choice.
How will this be used? Who will be asking for vaccination papers and what will the limits if any be? If someone is not vaccinated will they be denied access to employment, supermarkets, travel? Will life be made so miserable that they are effectively forced to be vaccinated? Nobody knows what passports mean or how they will be used. If people feel strongly about vaccination benefits to society then they should be advocating laws on the front end to force people to get shots under threat of violence rather than perusing backdoor attempts to accomplish something you don't have the legitimacy to pull off the right way.
You make this sound insurmountable, when we have existing examples of common-sense rules to guide us. Schools and camps require proof of MMR vaccination, airlines do not. Per your example, yellow fever vaccination is required to travel in high-risk pa
It's not the concept of shot records. It's walking around with those shot records all the time and potentially being denied access to basic services without presenting your records.
It's also hilarious that the people who think voter ID is racist because minorities are too poor or stupid to get an ID but they definitely have a smartphone. If you are unable to obtain a free/discounted ID why would you have a smartphone? If it is wrong to require an ID to vote should it also be wrong to prevent an ID to buy f
Trying to be happy is like trying to build a machine for which the only
specification is that it should run noiselessly.
And in related news (Score:5, Insightful)
Rest of world bans Floridians from traveling there.
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Papers, pls?
Just another potential totalitarian move from Big Tech and the Democrats.
Re:And in related news (Score:5, Insightful)
We _already_ have shot records, and they _already_ have to be provided to school in order to enroll.
Some international travel _already_ requires vaccination records.
In the words of the great Star Lord... "everybody chill the F out".
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Forget it, Jake. It's Florida.
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Forget it, Jake. It's Florida.
Mod parent up.
Re:And in related news (Score:4, Insightful)
Why is everyone losing their shit over this? We _already_ have shot records, and they _already_ have to be provided to school in order to enroll. Some international travel _already_ requires vaccination records. In the words of the great Star Lord... "everybody chill the F out".
It's a well known psychological disorder known as Delerium Republicanensis [mayoclinic.org].
Re:And in related news (Score:5, Informative)
Of course. When I started teaching, I had to prove to every school I worked at that I didn't have tuberculosis. I had to show paperwork.
Re: And in related news (Score:2, Insightful)
Good for you. I'm not going to disclose my health records or vaccination status for admission to a grocery store or restaurant.
Re: And in related news (Score:4, Informative)
You think this is something public health authorities wanted to do?
The alternative is to keep stuff closed. We can’t go back to normal until we vaccinate enough people and quarantine, vaccine passports are a way to let things open earlier.
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Good for you. I'm not going to disclose my health records or vaccination status for admission to a grocery store or restaurant.
Ever shown ID at a bar or a liquor store? It's like that. They check that the photo matches your face, they let you in.
Re: And in related news (Score:2)
A dumb hyperbole. Maybe a vaccine passport to go to a 70,000 person football game but a grocery store or bar? Never
This will last until we get the last 40 million americans vaccinated. It will be 90% republican and die hard trumpets in that group too.
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You don't have to. Its merely a bar code with an encrypted key, at least in NY (Excelsior Pass [ny.gov]).
Soon, grocery stores and restaurants may choose not allow filthy, infested disease carriers like yourself into their establishments, or have the choice to do business with you.
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Fantastic! Because I am. Now we'll both be happy knowing our shopping and eating paths will never cross.
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The difference being that anyone can get a TB vaccine within a few days at minimal cost. Very very few people have a medical reason not to get one.
COVID vaccines are in short supply and I probably won't get mine until near the end of this year. Many more people can't get one for medical reasons, e.g. pregnancy.
So while I'm absolutely for everyone getting a vaccine as soon as possible, in the short term it's creating a big divide between those who have and those who haven't.
There are also questions about how
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COVID vaccines are in short supply and I probably won't get mine until near the end of this year
Where do you live? Europe?
By next week, the US will give the green light for anyone over 16 to apply for the covid shot appointment. In NY state, they're booked to the end of May, but that's still earlier than I or the CDC anticipated at the beginning of the year. Very soon, there will be plenty of vaccine, but 30% of the population will refuse to take it.
Many more people can't get one for medical reasons, e.g. pregnancy.
The vaccine researchers are already studying it, and they're quite optimistic about getting vaccine approval soon. Other than pregnancy, age, allergy
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Israel has been giving the vaccine to pregnant women ever since a fetus was born dead due to COVID. (I think that was the case. Definitely some COVID-related medical problem with a pregnancy.) No issues yet, and all mothers and babies have been fine.
Re:And in related news (Score:5, Informative)
The proposed standards for "Vaccine Passports" is something that can be readily verified by anyone.
Verifying a vaccine record from your doctor requires contacting your doctor and getting them to cooperate in releasing at least some of your medical records to some anonymous, non-medical cold caller. This usually means you, as the owner of your medical information, need to sign a release granting the doctor permission to share it your records with someone else... and you'd need to sign such a document for literally everyone who needs to verify your record, every time.
New York State has just recently rolled out a passport system for entry into event venues: You present your smartphone or printed document with a QR code, the person scans it and gets near instant proof from the state's vaccine registry that you've gotten your shots without violating HIPAA laws, signing releases or having to divulge personal information to random security guards.
=Smidge=
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My understanding is few people were actually getting the vaccine from their doctor.
What keeps me from photocopying my friends QR code in the NYS system?
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What keeps me from photocopying my friends QR code in the NYS system?
If they do it right, that would be that your friends Name and picture would show up and not yours.
MY question is, what keeps me from printing out a random QR code that points to a website that hast my Name and picture on it?
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What keeps me from photocopying my friends QR code in the NYS system?
The bar code will be scanned, and your driver license identity won't match the bar code. It makes me wonder if they will require a photo soon when applying for the pass.
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Then you must also be pro-fraudulent identification.
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Not at all. But NYS's system seems prone to a lot of bad decisions. It looks like it can leak people's personal information, etc. My ideal would be a card with a picture and a hologram (or whatever makes it hard to duplicate).
Re: And in related news (Score:1)
How do you release records to third parties without at least the potential of violating HIPAA?
And how is a QR code going to help? I can just copy the QR code from anyone.
All the restaurant has to do is keep a video recording and there is your identifying information of people with the vaccine.
Re:And in related news (Score:5, Informative)
There are big logistical problems with vaccine passports.
There are multiple vaccines. Some provide >90% immunity, some only 75%. We don't know how long any of them last yet, so can't put an expiry date on the passport. There is also a start-up period, in the first few weeks after vaccination it doesn't provide the full level of protection.
We also don't know how infectious the vaccinated are, i.e. if they can infect non-vaccinated people.
There are questions over privacy and fairness too. For example travel insurance companies might require vaccination for cover, but if AZ only gives you 75% protection will they be allowed to ask and use that to charge you a higher premium than someone who got Pfizer?
Or how about if you got a Chinese vaccine and the US doesn't recognize it, or vice-versa? Even between the EU and US there are differences in which vaccines have been approved for use.
None of this is insurmountable but it needs some very careful consideration.
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75% immunity is good enough for a passport, particular as the protection against serious cases seems to be better than the protection against any infection.
It appears that Pfizer vaccine does make people 90% less infectious compared to no vaccine [bloomberg.com]. Presumably Moderna too.
TLDR: Don't make the perfect the enemy of the good.
Re:And in related news (Score:4, Insightful)
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Everyone is not. Republicans are. The rest of the world is laughing.
No they're not. They're enviously looking at the vaccine availability in the US, and are pretty disgusted with the idiots.
Re: And in related news (Score:2)
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I doubt that he's referring to how the outbreak is being handled. I'm pretty sure he's referring to the fact that many countries are complaining about how many vaccines the US has and how little it has shared. When you want something that someone else has produced, and then complain about not getting any, I'd call that envy too.
However, I'd say "the world" was a gross exaggeration. Countries like Australia who are mostly producing their own vaccine obviously aren't going to care.
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Stupid-ass culture war, it's a way of getting people to support unpopular policies:
1. Get your supporters riled up into the dumbass tribal game of culture war where the game is won by pwning the other guys at whatever you've chosen to fight over
2. Start with some goals they actually like
3. Start mixing in unpopular policies, more and more over time, even if the only thing keeping your own team from hating them as much as the other team does is the fact that they're a goal for your team
4. Eventually the goal
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That Dr. Seuss thing was definitely unwarranted. There was no intentional racism. What was happening was caricature. So oriental skin color is typically different from that of most US people, so you exaggerate it and include a few iconic features (e.g. chopsticks) to indicate rapidly and without words the kind of people you're referring to. There's nothing inherently demeaning about eating with chopsticks (I do it frequently myself), but it's iconically oriental. Unless you consider being oriental bad
Re: And in related news (Score:2)
Your post is a gratuitous pointless distraction. Were you trying to be an example of what the OP was describing?
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Dr. Seuss would disagree with you. He eventually realized it was racist and revised the Chinese man in the 70s in an effort to make it less offensive.
He started his career making extremely racist political cartoons.He eventually realized it was wrong, and decided to make children's books in an effort to do something good. And as he got older, he realized there was still racism in some of his works, and made some efforts to reduce it.
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I think you validate my assertion that it wasn't intentionally racist. And my judgement that it wasn't actually racist is based on my reaction as a child when I read the books. Not a large sample, I admit, but to me it was just a characterization. I might have read it as "Chinese tend to be poor peasants", but I didn't.
Re: And in related news (Score:2, Insightful)
What a load of bullshit.
Racism is IFF YOU IMPLY HATE.
And Protip: YOU ate the only one implying hate.
I can draw yellow people with straw hats and slit eyes and chopsticks that can't pronounce Rs and Ls all day, and not have one shred of hate for east-Asians in me.
YOU on the onther hand, are a hatefuly bigotedy prejudiced discriminating terrorist bully, who deloberately and systematically "finds" hate literally *everywhere* so he can bully and hate and terrorize people, just like bullies and racists in the ol
ARE (Score:2)
not "ate"!
Fuck, touch screens are the single worst creation since the testicle screw.
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Of course, there's no rational reason to get worked up over one more vaccine. It's just another excuse for the right-wingers to pretend to be outraged in order to manipulate their supporters.
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Re: And in related news (Score:2)
I moved from Virginia to Texas when my daughter was in fifth grade and the school here said they required her immunization records. She had all of her shots, but didn't have any actual written records, so requested them from her pediatrician in Virginia.
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Why is everyone losing their shit over this?
We _already_ have shot records, and they _already_ have to be provided to school in order to enroll.
Are you serious? This is has been a politically contentious issue with people losing their shit on both sides for decades. Laws are all over the place to show for it from state to state with ballot measures on this topic regularly making appearances.
Some international travel _already_ requires vaccination records.
Not really.
If you are a US citizen you are required to have yellow fever vaccination to go to Angola, Cameroon, CAR, DRC, Congo, Cote D'ivoire, Ghana, Guinea, Honduras, Mali, Niger, Togo.
Oh and meningitis vaccine for travel to KSA for Hajj.
Otherwise there are
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One can only hope. People seem to think it's "my body, my choice" when this is not the case. You don't get to choose to expose other people to potentially fatal illnesses.
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One can only hope. People seem to think it's "my body, my choice" when this is not the case. You don't get to choose to expose other people to potentially fatal illnesses.
Yes we do albeit typically unknowingly. People are exposed to potentially fatal illnesses spread by other people all the time and many thousands die yearly as a result.
Notions of both risk and responsibility are bidirectional. Nobody is entitled to absolute safety. Nobody is entitled to absolute freedom. You chose to go out into the public knowing you could get hit by a car, shot or exposed to other peoples germs the same as the person next to you has done. Both parties to existence in any society concu
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Every one of the available COVID-19 vaccines in the West anyway and probably the Russia and Chinese ones too are the products of abortion. When did those victims get a choice about their body?
It was immoral to profit from medical research when the Nazi's killed and maimed unwilling participants; its immoral NOW!
Most people are ignorant of all this because there is a major effort to keep them that way. I have am not ignorant and I don't want to willing take a vaccine created by killing someone else. That i
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Every one of the available COVID-19 vaccines in the West anyway and probably the Russia and Chinese ones too are the products of abortion. When did those victims get a choice about their body?
You can choose not to use products of abortion, but even in the United States, society will eventually not let you choose to do so. The SCotUS allows abortion; they're going to allow society to isolate you if you 're not vaccinated. Enjoy your lifestyle choice as a marginalized person.
Mind you, I do prefer society not require to vaccinate you at the point of a gun, but a gun will not be necessary to expel you from society.
Re:And in related news (Score:5, Insightful)
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are you stupidly high or highly stupid?
you misuse terms and appeal to emotion far more than expected for an issue that should have been closed decades ago
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But you fail to realize your statement can be applied to either side, which makes you, at least linguistically, stupid.
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What I hate is a bunch of do gooders who fell for a plot to mobilize them into a voting bloc to prop up the Republican party. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.go... [nih.gov]
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The child in a pregnant's woman body is not her body
The fetus in the pregnant woman's body is not a child, its a batch of cells with the potential to be a child. If miscarriage is physically the same as an abortion, then how is it acceptable for God to be the universe's most profligate abortionist?
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Human development begins at fertilization when a male gamete or sperm unites with a female gamete or oocyte to form a single cell, a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marks the beginning of each of us as a unique individual.
How did you reach the conclusion that a fetus is just "a batch of cells"? Is a human just "a batch of cells"?
If miscarriage is physically the same as an abortion, then how is it acceptable for God to be the universe's most profligate abortionist?
This discussion is about people killing other people and making lame excuses in an attempt to cover their guilt, as well as proposing laws to the same effect. The quotation above makes sense in this context only if you consider yourself God, in which case we have nothing else to dis
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From Keith Moore T. V. N. Persaud Mark Torchi [...]This highly specialized, totipotent cell marks the beginning of each of us as a unique individual.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Neither do scientists purporting a quality to a physical phenomenon which doesn't apply; an individual at least has to demonstrate some form of identity, or else they're just a living corpse.
How did you reach the conclusion that a fetus is just "a batch of cells"? Is a human just "a batch of cells"?
How? Because that's what they are. A fetus is not a human being, because a human being is capable of being human, or at least able to survive indefinitely outside of its womb without extensive mechanical or biological interventio
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Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
We agree. However, such statements that are not related to this discussion and your reluctance to answer my previous questions make me wonder if there's any point in continuing this.
Neither do scientists purporting a quality to a physical phenomenon which doesn't apply; an individual at least has to demonstrate some form of identity, or else they're just a living corpse. A fetus is not a human being, because a human being is capable of being human, or at least able to survive indefinitely outside of its womb without extensive mechanical or biological intervention.
So, you're saying that scientists cannot decide if someone is human. Also, you're saying that Christians cannot decide this. Then, who can? Are unconscious people human? According to your statement above, they're not. Is there anything you've said so far that makes any sense? I'll let the ones who read this decide. By the way, a
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Be careful when presuming how other people think.
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People seem to think it's "my body, my choice" when this is not the case
Its only "my body, my choice" when they live outside of civilization. When they live in US civilization, they can advocate for the "right" to be a disease carrier, but that bullshit is not going to fly. They can flee to some backwater of like minded idiots in Alabama or Florida, but the need to work a job or go buy groceries will shutdown that shit quick.
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If you are a US citizen you are required to have yellow fever vaccination to go to Angola, Cameroon, CAR, DRC, Congo, Cote D'ivoire, Ghana, Guinea, Honduras, Mali, Niger, Togo.
Oh and meningitis vaccine for travel to KSA for Hajj.
Otherwise there are a whole host of country specific recommendations to protect travelers. People tend to conflate the two into requirements when no such thing effectively exists.
You are confusing me.
Is it now required, or not?
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People tend to conflate the two into requirements when no such thing effectively exists. You are confusing me. Is it now required, or not?
Yes it exists in the listed countries, no it is not relevant because vast majority of US citizens will never be exposed to the requirement.
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Other countries have those requirements. So if you want to enter another country, they require vaccination.
The US has some vaccination requirements for non-citizens if they want to become permanent residents. As far as I know the government cannot mandate vaccines on adults.
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The US has some vaccination requirements for non-citizens if they want to become permanent residents.
and
As far as I know the government cannot mandate vaccines on adults.
Seem to contradict each other.
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Everyone who will want vaccination will have access to it in US in a few months time so what's even the benefit to anyone in any of this?
You've answered your own question: the problem is that there is a huge percentage of people who will refuse the vaccine. Why these people want to prevent us from reaching herd-immunity is anyone's guess, but that's essentially the consequence of that choice.
How will this be used? Who will be asking for vaccination papers and what will the limits if any be? If someone is not vaccinated will they be denied access to employment, supermarkets, travel? Will life be made so miserable that they are effectively forced to be vaccinated? Nobody knows what passports mean or how they will be used. If people feel strongly about vaccination benefits to society then they should be advocating laws on the front end to force people to get shots under threat of violence rather than perusing backdoor attempts to accomplish something you don't have the legitimacy to pull off the right way.
You make this sound insurmountable, when we have existing examples of common-sense rules to guide us. Schools and camps require proof of MMR vaccination, airlines do not. Per your example, yellow fever vaccination is required to travel in high-risk pa
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Some international travel _already_ requires vaccination records.
You think the Republican key demographic has ever left the United States?
They'll probably be shocked and concerned that international flights require a photo sent to a government database to get a passport.
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Hmm. Let's see. The social security number was ONLY going to be used for social security.
I wasn't around to help keep that shit from happening, but I am able to help stop this shit.
Fuck you and fuck anyone that thinks we need more "papers please".
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Nice to see people against voter ID laws.
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