I never said that... it's just that this argument is one that I've seen used a lot by people who doubted the existence of black holes, and now, at least, they can't use that argument anymore.
I'm sure it won't stop them from coming up with some other reason to doubt it, but this is one I've heard *repeatedly*, from literally every single person I've ever met who didn't think they existed.
I never said that... it's just that this argument is one that I've seen used a lot by people who doubted the existence of black holes, and now, at least, they can't use that argument anymore.
The picture looks exactly like a supernova or an accretion disk but it could also be some matter blocking the center of any sufficiently bright object. Therefore, we have not yet seen a black hole.
I do not doubt the existence of black holes nor the findings in this paper, but your naivete is grating on my not-had-coffee-yet nerves.
Your belief there could be no rational argument to the contrary of your own beliefs is screaming out a character defect you hold at anyone paying attention.
Obviously they can doubt the veracity of the photographs, but they can't actually say that we haven't claimed to have actually seen photographs of them.
*THAT* is the argument from ignorance that I've repeatedly heard from absolutely anyone I've ever met who has taken the stance of not believing in the existence of black holes.
Now we have photographs... or at least are claiming to... whether those idiots believe that they are actual photos of real black holes is irrelevant, they can't say that nobody's
by Anonymous Coward writes:
on Wednesday April 10, 2019 @02:24PM (#58416608)
Moving the goalposts is my frustration from idiots.
For instance, stating that no one can claim we have not seen a black hole, is easily refuted. Then the argument changes to, no one can claim no one has claimed to have seen a black hole.
The next step is obvious after pointing out the obvious fact that the person making the claim could be willfully lying, therefore no one has honestly claimed to have seen a black hole. Now, on que mark-t, tell us the new goalpost is a third-order claim. Go!
I didn't move the goalposts at all. the argument I've always hated is that they didn't believe that black holes existed because we hadn't ever taken any pictures of one.
Now we have. Whether they believe in the veracity of the photo is irrelevant... they cannot use that argument anymore.
If they want to persist in the delusion, they will have to now argue that there is a conspiracy or a coverup or that this evidence was artificially manufactured.
But they can't say that we haven't taken any pictures of
I did *NOT* say that any of that other stuff annoys me, because nobody in my experience has ever tried to present such any of those other arguments.
People who have noted that the "pictures" that we had of them were faked are, in fact, telling the truth.. because previously we only had artists renditions, and nobody with any scientific integrity was trying to push those pictures off as the real thing anyways.
The only thing we previously had to prove that they real
To follow up, further... nobody who I know who has refuted that black holes exist has tried to hold a claim that the scientists who came up with this idea were merely guessing... they accept that the theories predicted they exist, but they simply doubt that they exist because we've never seen photographs of them.
I'm not talking about obstinate flat-earth type people here who are stubbornly clinging to an unscientific view that has already been disproved by a preponderance of real evidence, I'm talking ab
COMPASS [for the CDC-6000 series] is the sort of assembler one expects from
a corporation whose president codes in octal.
-- J.N. Gray
Finally putting an end.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Thank you, science... hopefully I seen the last of this argument from ignorance.
Re: (Score:5, Funny)
Yes, the era of people not knowing how to infer has just ended. Congrats on the new era's first post! That was exquisite timing; I'm jealous.
Re: (Score:3)
I never said that... it's just that this argument is one that I've seen used a lot by people who doubted the existence of black holes, and now, at least, they can't use that argument anymore.
I'm sure it won't stop them from coming up with some other reason to doubt it, but this is one I've heard *repeatedly*, from literally every single person I've ever met who didn't think they existed.
Re: (Score:0)
I never said that... it's just that this argument is one that I've seen used a lot by people who doubted the existence of black holes, and now, at least, they can't use that argument anymore.
The picture looks exactly like a supernova or an accretion disk but it could also be some matter blocking the center of any sufficiently bright object. Therefore, we have not yet seen a black hole.
I do not doubt the existence of black holes nor the findings in this paper, but your naivete is grating on my not-had-coffee-yet nerves.
Your belief there could be no rational argument to the contrary of your own beliefs is screaming out a character defect you hold at anyone paying attention.
Re: (Score:2)
Obviously they can doubt the veracity of the photographs, but they can't actually say that we haven't claimed to have actually seen photographs of them.
*THAT* is the argument from ignorance that I've repeatedly heard from absolutely anyone I've ever met who has taken the stance of not believing in the existence of black holes.
Now we have photographs... or at least are claiming to... whether those idiots believe that they are actual photos of real black holes is irrelevant, they can't say that nobody's
Re:Finally putting an end.... (Score:0)
Moving the goalposts is my frustration from idiots.
For instance, stating that no one can claim we have not seen a black hole, is easily refuted. Then the argument changes to, no one can claim no one has claimed to have seen a black hole.
The next step is obvious after pointing out the obvious fact that the person making the claim could be willfully lying, therefore no one has honestly claimed to have seen a black hole. Now, on que mark-t, tell us the new goalpost is a third-order claim. Go!
Re: (Score:2)
Now we have. Whether they believe in the veracity of the photo is irrelevant... they cannot use that argument anymore.
If they want to persist in the delusion, they will have to now argue that there is a conspiracy or a coverup or that this evidence was artificially manufactured.
But they can't say that we haven't taken any pictures of
Re: (Score:2)
Speaking of fallacies, strawman much?
I did *NOT* say that any of that other stuff annoys me, because nobody in my experience has ever tried to present such any of those other arguments.
People who have noted that the "pictures" that we had of them were faked are, in fact, telling the truth.. because previously we only had artists renditions, and nobody with any scientific integrity was trying to push those pictures off as the real thing anyways.
The only thing we previously had to prove that they real
Re: (Score:2)
To follow up, further... nobody who I know who has refuted that black holes exist has tried to hold a claim that the scientists who came up with this idea were merely guessing... they accept that the theories predicted they exist, but they simply doubt that they exist because we've never seen photographs of them.
I'm not talking about obstinate flat-earth type people here who are stubbornly clinging to an unscientific view that has already been disproved by a preponderance of real evidence, I'm talking ab