Polyphonic Overtone Singing Explained Visually With Spectrograms 51
New submitter Tucano writes The overtone singer Anna-Maria Hefele can sing two notes at the same time. In her latest video, spectrograms and frequency filters are used to explain how she can produce two melody lines at the same time, and how she uses her mouth to filter the frequencies of her voice. When the voice produces a sound, many harmonics (or overtones) sound at the same time, and we normally hear this as a single tone. In overtone singing, the mouth filters out all harmonics but one, and the one that remains is amplified to become louder. This is then perceived as a separate tone, next to the fundamental. In her video, Anna-Maria shows techniques that become increasingly advanced. She shows the overtone scale (steady fundamental, moving overtone), the undertone scale (steady overtone, moving fundamental), parallel movement and opposing movement of overtone and fundamental, and even complex compositions with two separate melody lines.
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With the advent of technology, anyone can sing or play any instrument like a pro. Outside of a live performance, does it really matter?
It depends on what you mean by "play". I can "play" an MP3, and there is a fairly small step between that and programming a sequence into a synthesiser. Another step forward and I could sing with autotune or play an instrument that avoids discords. Then I could sing or play a conventional instrument. Having "instant music" doesn't make this pointless
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With the advent of technology, anyone can sing or play any instrument like a pro.
In the same way that automatic garbage collection lets anyone program like a pro, yes.
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Re:So can anyone with Pro Tools... BFD. (Score:4, Insightful)
I think if you sat down with one of these software packages for a few minutes you'd quickly realize that having a top notch performance is the key to a quality end-product. Think of it this way. If you're photographing a model would you rather spend a half-hour having makeup applied (maybe it takes longer, I don't know) or would you rather spend many hours airbrushing and PSing the shit out of the final image before you can even start working on stylizing it for print and doing the 'normal' PSing? Same goes for music. You can create vocals and instrumental music out of thin air with software, but it takes a TON of work to get them to not sound like crap, let alone good.
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Sure, if all that mattered in music was plucking, blowing, or bowing. There's this small matter of the theory of music. You know, harmony, style, tonality... little things like that.
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Why did people paint after the advent of cameras? The camera produces a far superior image!
"Do you feel like I do?" (Score:1)
Yeah, but can she make a Les Paul talk like Peter Frampton?
How do you do it? (Score:5, Interesting)
That was very interesting, but I was hoping she'd also include some information about how she manipulates the resonance chamber physically to do the filtering.
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There are several tutorials on youtube on how to do overtone (also called throat) singing. She doesn't cover it, because probably there's enough of it already.
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There are several tutorials on youtube on how to do overtone (also called throat) singing. She doesn't cover it, because probably there's enough of it already.
"Throat singing" involves operating the vocal cords while inhaling. This lady, Anna-Maria Hefele, at least, is NOT doing that.
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Re:How do you do it? (Score:4, Funny)
Well, you learn how to overtone sing and we can find out :D
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This is the second video from her that I've seen. I really liked this one because she explained what she was doing. The first was just her singing and I didn't "get it."
Look in the suggested links on YouTube - you'll see one from "Yuichi Tuba" who goes into the basics. He talks about where to put your tongue, how to shape it, and how to practice. https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Something fun to go home and try. Better than teaching the kid how to make farting noises under his arm.
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Excellent link. Not only did I learn to do overtone singing, but I also have another person I can send prayer requests. :)
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Yes - well... if you prayed to learn how to perform this kind of singing...then consider your prayer answered !!
Actually - I started looking at his whole channel and found his random "man on the streets" of Japan to be quite entertaining. I haven't been back to Japan for over 10 years so I found it interesting and fun to watch. I remember buying hot sake in a can - press a button and it would begin heating. They have such cool soda machines over there. YouTube surfing at its best.
Back to work.
Re: How do you do it? (Score:2)
Re: How do you do it? (Score:2)
Reminds me of Tuvan throat singing (Score:4, Informative)
If you're not familiar with Tuvan throat singing, check out the documentary Genghis Blues [genghisblues.com] that follows blind blues musician Paul Pena on his trip to Tuva to compete in their throat singing competition.
From his bio [paulpena.com]:
Paul first heard a fragment of harmonic singing on a shortwave Radio Moscow broadcast on December 29, 1984 and he was so struck by it, he spent almost eight years trying to track down its source. In 1991 he was finally able to locate a recording of Tuvan music and taught himself the vocal techniques known as 'Khoomei, Sygyt, and Kargyraa'. In addition, he learned a good bit of the Tuvan language using English-Russian and Russian-Tuvan dictionaries and an obsolete 'Opticon' scanning device which translates text into sensations. In 1993, Paul attended a concert sponsored by the Friends of Tuva organization and met Kongar-ol Ondar after the performance. Paul gave Kongar-ol an impromptu demonstration--and astonished him with his talent and mastery of traditional Tuvan singing. The two men formed a strong friendship along with their musical collaboration.
In 1995, Kongar-ol invited Paul to sing at the second international Khoomei Symposium and contest, held in Tuva's capital city, Kyzyl. Ralph Leighton and the "Friends of Tuva" sponsored his trip.
Re:Reminds me of Tuvan throat singing (Score:4, Informative)
Cowboy singer Arthur Miles [youtube.com] cut a record in the 1930s using overtone singing. It seems to be something people inevitably develop from just messing around with the possibilities of the human voice.
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I was fortunate enough to hear Kongar-ol Ondar and some other Tuvan singers perform live about a decade ago. It was a special experience. I heard about Tuvan throat singing from my parents, who were huge Richard Feynman [wikipedia.org] fans and learned about it from him.
Re:Reminds me of marginally related things (Score:2)
Sort of. There are many different styles of "throat singing". The basic component is to make a sound so raspy that it has a whole bunch of overtones. It's almost white noise. It's not a melodious note, and only serves as a basis for manipulation.
Dag Kargyraa or Steppe Kargyraa are the best examples, and most well known.
Overtone singing means moving the fundamental pitch around, which traditional throat singing does not do. It's the logical extension of throat singing, bringing it to the next level.
Over
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Excellent analysis, Mr. Pillow. Thanks!
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Just one's mouth can make some powerful music (Score:4, Informative)
These instruments and overtone singing take advantage of something most people know nothing about - how our perception of sound works. When you hear, say, a violin, you aren't hearing a "violin sound". You're hearing a combination of sinusoidal waves - a fundamental combined with multiple overtones. Those of you well-versed in math may recognize this as a Fourier series. Our ears are designed to perform a Fourier transform on incoming sounds, and separate out the individual frequencies. Individually these sinusoids are no different from the sinusoids generated by any other instrument (or any sound source for that matter). The stimulation a violin gives your ear at 440 Hz is exactly the same as what a horn gives, a voice gives, or even a jet engine gives at that one frequency - a sinusoid.
It's the ratio of the magnitudes of different frequencies (fundamental + overtones) which make a violin sound like a violin. A horn has a different ratio of magnitudes at the different overtones. Same with a voice (each individual voice - that's how you recognize someone's voice). Same with a jet engine. The raw data our brain gets from the ear is just a bunch of separate frequencies and and their magnitudes. It then compares the ratios of potential fundamentals + overtones and says, "oh, that's a violin". It always amazed me that you listen to an orchestra and pick out the individual instruments - all their frequencies and magnitudes are overlapping into a mishmash of sound. When I later learned about spread spectrum multiplexing, that's when I understood your brain is doing the equivalent of orthgonal frequency division multiplexing [wikipedia.org] (which is the technology used for LTE). Even though the frequencies generated by the instruments in an orchestra overlap into a mishmash of sound, the ratios of their overtones are orthogonal enough that if you listen carefully you can pick out the individual instruments. Exactly how your cell phone picks up the signal intended for it from the mishmash of signals the tower puts out for all phones.
In many ways, a Jew's harp and overtone singing are akin to analog sound synthesis. If you thought the high pitch she was singing sounded vaguely flute- or recorder-like, it's because those instruments have very close to a pure sinusoidal waveform (fundamental, very little overtones). The individual overtone she is amplifying is sinusoidal in waveform, so your brain interprets it as flute- or recorder-like. It's very similar to how the early synthesizers worked (before computer memory became cheap enough to sample everything). The name comes from frequency modulation synthesis - you modulate the magnitudes of the different frequencies (overtones) to alter what instrument the sound sounds like. Match the pattern of violin overtones and it sounds like a violin. Match the pattern of horn overtones and it sounds like a horn. The overtone singer has only mastered modulating the fundamental and one overtone, which limits her synthesis capabilities. But if she's capable of modulating a second or third overtone, she could start making her voice sound like different instruments. Just like an old analog FM synthesizer.
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When I later learned about spread spectrum multiplexing, that's when I understood your brain is doing the equivalent of orthgonal frequency division multiplexing [wikipedia.org] (which is the technology used for LTE).
I think that's taking it a bit too far. OFDM allows your cell phone to filter out all but one channel, so that all you hear is that channel. Whereas, when I listen to Haydn's Trumpet Concerto, I can't help but hear the orchestra too, even though I can recognize the individual instruments.
The name comes from frequency modulation synthesis - you modulate the magnitudes of the different frequencies (overtones) to alter what instrument the sound sounds like.
Actually, that sounds like additive synthesis. [wikipedia.org] FM synthesis entails the frequency-modulation of a single note with a rich upper-harmonic content (e.g., a sawtooth wave.)
Re: Just one's mouth can make some powerful music (Score:2)
Not so bad (Score:1)
Tits, mathematics, physics theory, measurements and vizualisation aren't bad, but come on, give us some real "news for nerds"!
I don't know, maybe some post by Bennett Haselton for example.
Pretty Lady Complex (Score:4, Insightful)
This has been around for a long time (think 1000s of years). I suspect this particular video became popular due to her attractiveness and plunging neckline. That's not to say she isn't amazingly talented though. She most certainly is!
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I'll second the amazingly talented part. (The pretty part is obvious.)
Hearing her sing reminded me of the first time I heard of overtone singing. It was in Stimmung, [wikipedia.org] a piece by German avant-garde composer Karlheinz Stockhausen for 6 vocalists.
You're right that overtone singing has been around for a long time. [wikipedia.org]
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On the other hand - I have heard a lot of throat singing, and I generally don't like it. On the rare instances that I have heard overtone singing, I have not had a computer and spectral analysis software handy.
This puts it all in one place.
I suspect the moderators who considered you insightful did not have the experience to differentiate a genuinely novel presentation of a mostly novel phenomenon.
If everyone here has been studying overtone singing, not throat singing, with a spectrum analyser, for 1000s of
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Totally and truely my good sir. My tone was not of the perennial 'why is this on /.' I had seen the video with that lady about a month ago elsewhere. I suppose during it's initial viral wave. The addition of the spectral analysis to the video was awesome!
Sounds terrible (Score:1)
It's basically a bad party trick. It sounds awful.
I can do it! (Score:4, Informative)
I've been doing this since I was about 10yrs old. Clearly this woman is far far superior at it than I've ever been. At best, I can hold the fundamental and move the overtone around in a slide sort of way. The way she's doing stepping is amazing. When I started doing this, it was more of a magic trick to me. I'd say "Listen! I can have 2 voices at once!" I had no idea what I was really doing.
For those wondering how to do it. Imagine humming with your mouth open. You have to close off your mouth in the same way you do when you drink through a straw and then hum like that. The fundamental feels very nasally to the singer. It makes your sinuses vibrate.
To get the overtone, I put the tip of my tong, right behind my front teeth on the roof of my mouth like when I make an "L" sound. Then change the shape of your tong like when you say "La" or "Lu" or "Lo" but never remove your tong from the roof of your mouth. The shape of your tong for each of those phonics gives you different tones. That's of course, how I do it. And I'm totally untrained so take it with a grain of salt.
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Ditto here... I've been getting better at it but she has WAY more control than I do.
Combination of ears skills (hearing your "filter" to know how to adjust it) tongue control (most people don't think that hard about the shape of their tongue at any given point in time... it's a really complex muscle that can do all sorts of interesting precision movements) and breath control (many of the harmonics don't sound right if you don't have the right air pressure behind them too much OR too little)
My last car had i
Image (Score:1)
Decades ago I had a really bad sore throat. At one point, for a few miraculous minutes, I could sing two tones at once. I assumed my vocal cords got connected in the middle somewhere via open sores that partially stuck together.
Imagine a beowulf cluster of castratos with this as a permanent feature!