Thanks To the Private Space Industry, Things Are Looking Up For Space City USA 47
gallifreyan99 writes When the shuttle program was ended, and manned space exploration was put on hold, the people of Titusville, Florida were left in big trouble. "Just 20 miles northwest of Kennedy Space Center in Florida, it used to have a proud nickname: Space City USA. The dizzying boom of the 1950s and '60s helped create myriad jobs by giving work to nearby aerospace companies. Unfortunately, the past 15 years have seen everything dry up By December 2010, Titusville had one of the America's highest unemployment rates, 13.8 percent." But even though there's been plenty of bad news recently, the city hopes that the private space industry can save it from destruction.
Titusville, Florida (Score:1)
You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.
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You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.
I thought that was Mojave Spaceport?
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And you have F.O.S. tattooed on your forehead.
moon (Score:1)
i always thought space city USA should be the name of the first lunar colony
Let's sing! (Score:4, Interesting)
Two boosters for every boy!
I bought a 67 Soyuz and we call it a capsule
(Space City, here we come)
You know it's not very cherry, it's an oldie but a goody
(Space City, here we come)
Well, it ain't got a back seat or a rear window
But it gets me in orbit where I wanna go
And we're goin' to Space City, 'cause it's two to one
You know we're goin' to Space City, gonna have some fun
Ya, we're goin' to Space City, 'cause it's two to one
You know we're goin' to Space City, gonna have some fun, now
SpaceX is hiring every girl and boy...
And if my Soyuz breaks down on me somewhere out in orbit
(Space City, here we come)
I'll strap my oxy tanks to my back and hitch a ride in my spacesuit
(Space City, here we come)
And when I get to Space City I'll be shootin' the horizon
And checkin' out the parties for a surfer girl
And we're goin' to Space City, 'cause it's two to one
You know we're goin' to Space City, gonna have some fun
Ya, we're goin' to Space City, 'cause it's two to one
Ya, we're goin' to Space City, gonna have some fun, now
Two boosters for every
Two SpaceX launches for every girl and boy...
Tune: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v... [youtube.com]
Ignore the lyrics on that one. They're WRONG!
Bring back the shuttles. (Score:2)
For all its faults, I still rue the fact the Shuttle program was canned. They where great little spacecraft, and really should have just been upgraded rather than canned.
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The shuttle was a great experimental testbed.
It verified quite effectively that a reusable, rapid-turnaround heavy launch vehicle is a delusional fantasy:
* The only part that's reusable is the orbiter
* And given the insane amount of inspection and refit required it's not 100% clear that the orbiter itself passes the ship-of-theseus test
* Speaking of inspection and refit, we never did get those weekly/monthly shuttle launches we were promised
* Original promise of 4 nines reliability turned out to be closer t
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Seriously? Are you still running LSI11 platforms in your datacenter? People who don't know the issues with the shuttle are imagining they can drive from the trunk with no camera. I could make a 69 Cadillac Eldorado into a hybrid with a range of about 10 blocks as long as it is not up hill either way.
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I think the best approach would be a hybrid one. Though healthcare sector is NOT any sort of 'role model'. Companies like SpaceX clearly have a lot to bring to the table in terms of innovation and bringing costs down, but to achieve large, visionary goals for man, will probably be helped a lot by government funding.
There is a myth though that anything to do with space is hideously unaffordably expensive. If you look at the actual numbers, this isn't really true. E.g. NASA's annual budget is just 0.5% of th
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And yet... (Score:3)
the US has the worst healthcare system of any developed nation, and it is privately run.
And yet, where do people want to be treated when they contract Ebola? What nations have active R&D for an Ebola vaccine? A Malaria vaccine? And in India, who actually uses the state run healthcare when private is an option? And in the U.K., how do you skip the NHS wait queue for something like hernia surgery? And in Canada, where do you go when the government health care system refuses to fix your knee because you're a computer programmer, and having a working knee is not necessary to your job func
Re:And yet... (Score:4, Informative)
The main Ebola drugs/vaccines that are in play were developed in Canada [theglobeandmail.com] at the publicly funded National Microbiology Lab [nml-lnm.gc.ca] in Winnipeg, Manitoba. Some money came from private companies, but much was public funds; and who paid for the lab in the first place? (That's a rhetorical question if you didn't get it.) Level 4-containment microbiology labs aren't cheap, it's why there are only a handful in the world and why they are publicly funded, not privately... there is normally no profit in them. I am one who has no problem pointing out the folly and poor performance (it has hurt me personally) of Canada's "public only" healthcare system. I like the public/private funding paradigm that Europe seems to have and which Obamacare seems to be moving towards, and would like to see that adopted here (that is another topic altogether). But I am very against the "private only" healthcare system that many fake Christians in the U.S. want. I have seen it hurt too many people. And this is also a case where we can see that private isn't always better either [theglobeandmail.com].
Next question?
Re:And yet... (Score:4, Insightful)
If money is no object the US has the best medical facilities in the world. For everyone else you'd probably be better off going to Cuba - they have a truly awesome healthcare system that revolves around delivering the best possible care for as little money as possible, and they deliver impressively. For most common conditions their outcomes compare favorably with any wealthy nation, and at a tiny fraction of the expense.
I'd love to see the US adopt a two-tiered medical system: Cuban-style healthcare as the first tier, handling the 90+% of common injuries and ailments that can be cheaply and reliably treated without expensive high technology, along with all the regular house calls, follow-ups, lifestyle advice, etc,etc,etc. that doctors of old delivered. Remove the profit from the maintenance of basic health - *everyone* benefits from having a healthy, productive populace, and there's no reason that the healthcare system should be milking people for tens of thousands of dollars for outcomes which that can delivered at double-digit expense. Let's bring back doctors who are respected by their community and don't fleece their patients at every opportunity
Only if you are diagnosed with something that needs high-tech intervention do you get referred (without kickbacks) to the second tier, where specialists thrive in well-equipped hospitals - but you'd you'd better have insurance if you want to be able to afford their services.
I think such a system would be at least a wonderful "first draft" way to make sure no American ever has to suffer from a condition that could be treated for a few dollars at any decent 3rd-world clinic, while also maintaining the incentive structure that has led us to develop the cutting-edge treatments that made our medical services the preferred choice for the wealthiest people in the world.
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It's important to consider the economics of the second tier. How much should catastrophic-only insurance cost? And do we let people drop dead when they get catastrophic illness and didn't buy insurance?
Also keep in mind that a lot of the cost difference between the US and Cuba is the Americans are getting paid living wages (to live in America). When you say "a condition that could be treated for a few dollars at any decent 3rd-world clinic," let's get real, that probably translates to about $30 (or $300 e
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Why not continue operating the catastrophic insurance exactly the way we are now? Don't touch the existing system *AT ALL*, except to remove the "trivial" cases to a medical triage organization whose incentives have been crafted to promote efficiency and efficacy.
Yes, that will mean that second-tier care will be more expensive without the ability to subsidize itself with inflated first-tier profits. On the other hand the resulting much cheaper first-tier care will almost certainly mean that far fewer peopl
Public Private Hybrid (Score:2)
healthcare - the US has the worst healthcare system of any developed nation, and it is privately run
Only deluded ideologues think that the US health care system is privately run. Yes it has elements that are privately run but you cannot ignore Medicare or Medicaid because they are the 800lb gorilla in the system. Insurance companies generally follow whatever pricing Medicare sets. Our more conservative leaning citizens often like to live with the illusion that private always equals better (sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't) and that our system is a private system but in reality is it is a public/p
Global Warming (Score:2)
It's Florida, and they're on the coast. Global warming should fix this by the time a few decades are up. If I were them I'd sell everything now and get what I could, then move north to the hills in Georgia. It'll be beach front by the next century. At least their decedents can enjoy it if they can keep the property in the family.
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Bzzzt. Florida is probably in the best position of any state (besides MAYBE New York) to deal with climate change. Why? Because we haven't had anything that vaguely resembles a natural river or coastline in almost a century. Our coastline is ALREADY fortified against flooding. Drive to South Beach sometime, and notice that West Avenue (the road along the western edge of the island) is already a few feet higher than the surrounding terrain. Then observe that there's another huge berm sitting between Ocean Dr
So "are" is now the future injunctive tense? (Score:2)
I can certainly see why they might *hope* for such things, but "things are looking up" would suggest that they're *already* starting to take form, and I saw no evidence of that when skimming the article.
And personally, if I were preparing to go to space I'd rather not have my last days planet-side be spent grounded by bad weather, feeding voracious mosquito swarms, and trying to find some way to shed heat in the oppressive humidity.
I lived there (Score:2)
I lived in Titusville for two years covering the end of the space shuttle program and the private space industry is not going to save that area. Most of T'ville's problems are self-inflicted and, even as businesses continue to close and young people can't move away fast enough, government leaders are not investing the kind of money in the type of projects it would take to attract new businesses.
For decades T'ville was anti-growth and most of the policies still cling to the dying relic of the area, which i
Bad Geography (Score:2)
Full disclosure: I lived at Patrick AFB in the 1980s, in Cape Canaveral for the 1990s and have lived in Rockledge (20 mi South of Titusville) since 2000. But I don't work in the space industry.
Apparently the author of the linked article can't read a map (or GPS). Titusville is just over 9 (yes, NINE) miles DUE WEST of the VAB and just over 10 miles North-West of the main cluster of NASA admin and misc buildings, Titusville is only 20 miles NW of the waters outside Port Canaveral.
As for the reduction i
Stayed there for final shuttle launch (Score:2)
The hotel I stayed at was literally the worst hotel I have ever stayed at, and I've been to some crapholes. My friend with me wouldn't even sleep in the bed unless we first ran to a store and bought all kinds of bug sprays and disinfectants. Even the clean towels were dirty. Half the buildings were already boarded up.
And it was all worth is because we had a good time at the Space Park (which was like $65 to get in), and the launch of STS135 was awesome, even if it was a bit cloudy. There's a nice Air Museum
I live there, just a small town (Score:4, Informative)
I guess I *have* to post something, since I have lived in Titusville for a while, and also lived in the region for a shorter time in the early shuttle program days.
I have worked on the shuttle program and currently work in commercial space.
Titusville is just a small town in Florida, always has been, and almost certainly always will be. That isn't necessarily a bad thing if that is what you are looking for.
And, as others have mentioned, has been famously "anti-growth" during many periods in history. Which probably hasn't been that helpful when growth was a little more active around here.
The city has had a complex relationship with the space program and the tourist industry in Florida. Most of the "decay" are overly ambitious structures from the Apollo days (IE malls and large resort hotels). They were pretty run down even in the early "boom" days of the shuttle program. They have only suffered more under the extreme impact of the shuttle program shutdown.
In some cases, this was turned around into finally demolishing these structures and replacing them with something more appropriate for the area. There are newer hotels of the normal "big box" type on the interstate exits now, and most of the riverfront "resorts" are gone or converted to other purposes.
Like every town (in Florida particularly), attempts are made to attract tourism. There have been a number of failed schemes since the Apollo days. Before my time, there was a jungle park owned by Johnny Weismuller of "Tarzan" fame, there was a tacky "JFK" museum in the shuttle days, etc. etc. It all looks so good when you are surrounded by "big tourism". Orlando to the west, Daytona Beach and St. Augustine to the north, the Cape Canaveral cruise ports to the east. But, it's just those places that mean you are generally bypassed for activities that they all do better.
The space center is a huge tourist attraction, but you mostly get tourists from Orlando who just come out to the center and then head back.
And remember, Titusville is a "river front" town, not "ocean front". That makes a huge difference.
On the plus side, We do have access to unspoiled beach and wildlife in the national parks north of the space center. It is a great locale for fishing and boating. In spite of them letting *me* in, lots of smart and industrious folks live here (either retired or still active from the space center). It is a short drive to just about any tourist activity you would like to participate in (beaches, theme parks, etc.). But, like most small towns, it is short on great night spots, trendy food places, hip hotels and boutique shopping. But it has tiny, small-town versions of most of this stuff too.
Not a town booster, but it's really a pretty routine place of its type, just twisted a bit with all the big ups and downs of the biggest local industry. Any improvements in the employment numbers can't help but be a boost to the community (and others in the region). That isn't much of a mystery when you took the hit of the shuttle shutdown.
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It's a great place to be. But then again I have never been the trendy/hip/boutique type. My small town on a river with the slow tide is fine with me. It's finally getting cold enough to go shrimping.