Scientists/Actress Say They Were 'Tricked' Into Geocentric Universe Movie 642
EwanPalmer (2536690) writes "Three scientists and Star Trek actress Kate Mulgrew say they were duped into appearing in a controversial documentary which claims the Earth is the center of the Universe. The Principle, a film which describes itself as 'destined to become one of the most controversial films of our time', argues the long-debunked theory of geocentrism – where the earth is the center of the Universe and the Sun resolves around it – is true and Nasa has tried to cover it up. The film features the narration of actress Mulgrew, who played the part of captain Kathryn Janeway in Star Trek Voyager, as well as three prominent scientists."
Not the first time this has happened (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Not the first time this has happened (Score:5, Interesting)
One of those actresses recently won a lawsuit against the director for doing so. These people have a legitimate claim IMO that the deception damages their career and should require remuneration along with bans on distribution of the fraudulently produced picture. I wonder if this same situation doesn't apply to this ridiculous movie.
I believe Kate (Score:5, Interesting)
Geocentrism does not necessarily imply (Score:2, Interesting)
the long-debunked idea of the Earth being the centre of the Solar System.
"...the long-debunked theory of geocentrism – where the Earth is the centre of the Universe and the Sun resolves around it..."
The linked clip never makes this claim.
This documentary appears to be about the modern theory of geocentrism, the idea among some creationist circles that the Solar System is somewhere near the centre of the universe - at these scales, of course, the Earth's movement around the Sun is negligible so the term "geocentrism" is reasonable.
I'm basing this partly by the appearance, in the linked clip, multiple times of a creationist (who I've met personally) who I know does not hold to the old "earth is the exact centre" view, but who has written some papers with evidence (red-shift patterns, I think - I'm not a cosmologist myself though) that the Solar System may be *near* the centre of the mass in the universe.
technobabble =! "technobabble" (Score:4, Interesting)
yeah I know what you mean...but we're techies so our definition of "technobabble" is more narrow than a non-tech, even one with a good education.
to Mulgrew, anything "science-y" was "technobabble"
this is the problem, Star Trek had mixed results with scientific accuracy...in that sense it is "technobabble" because it is fictional science in a future setting they are using...however, depending on which series at which time, the quality of the science dialogue was educational
I **liked** the fictional future science of the later series...it wasn't completely believable, but they definitely had a science advisor and you could see the consistency
It was educational...in the sense that it exposed me to new ideas & motivated me to ***actually look up the real science***
one thing Trekkies overlook is that today its mostly **teens** who watch Trek...average, everyday teenagers...I know this from my teaching experience, I'd have cheerleader type chicks mention Trek in papers
Re:But it is! (Score:3, Interesting)
It may be a valid frame of reference. But we'll have to throw out relativity just to get the nearest star orbiting the earth. Also, when I say "nearest star", I do mean the Sun. We would be talking about something like .04C. Enough to observe relatavistic effects that just aren't there. Proxima Centauri would be going at something close to 10,000C. The sun would need to have 1.5 * 10^33 Newtons of outward force counteracted to stay in orbit. You're not joking about "Large gravitional fields". It would take something like 134 solar masses.
Re:Not the first time this has happened (Score:5, Interesting)
And in the wikipedia entry [wikipedia.org] on this abomination, it says that in addition to Mulgrew it also features Michio Kaku and Lawrence Krauss. Lawyer feeding time, indeed. By the way, it would appear that the guy excreting this crap is not only a complete nitwit on astrophysics, but has equally outdated notions about Jews and the Holocaust. Nasty piece of work, it seems.
Re:Mirror image (Score:3, Interesting)
Ah, yes, our own islamophobe-in-chief strikes again.
I don't claim to know whether IoM is truthful or not. I think it's unlikely to be 100% true or false. As any contemporary account of centuries-old events must be. I do know that its makers are not historians, or theologists, which kind of makes me think more false than true.
I'm not claiming that its 100% accurate, but the gist of it (violent religion based on teachings of a nasty sex-mad warlord) are true. Personally I have never heard any evidence that Muhammad and Umar had a gay relationship ... but the pedophilia, brutal killings, etc. are all spot on.
Re:Not the first time this has happened (Score:4, Interesting)
I wouldn't really take that exact approach as she's probably not going to be acting in any more Trek. I'd point out that she earns X amount of money by going to fan conventions, that she anticipates being able to do this for Y number of years into the future, and those fans are the type that would be extremely alienated by the perception that she's so scientifically illiterate, so she stands to lose X*Y amount of money. I daresay there's enough backlash in Trek forums to be able to prove this already.
Re:Mirror image (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, you wrote "a film depicting the truth", unqualified. The qualification of Muhammad as a sex-mad warlord is, on both counts, not something that is readily apparent from scripture, or recorded historical accounts.
The alleged pedophilia is, it seems to me, a selective application of modern mores onto ancient history. If we did the same to Christendom or Judaism or basically basically any other -ism, I expect we'd find that in those circles back then it was (also) pretty regular practice to consider women adults (in the sense of ready for sexual relations) after their first menstruation.
Likewise, there is no shortage of violence and brutal killings in the history of Christianity and Judaism. And similar to Islam, there continue to be extremist, violent and racist, fringes to those religions to this day.
At any rate, the makers of IoM are not scholars and have no authority to make any claims in these matters.
Re:Mirror image (Score:5, Interesting)
The qualification of Muhammad as a sex-mad warlord is, on both counts, not something that is readily apparent from scripture, or recorded historical accounts.
Seriously, you know that little about what's in the Qur'an? How can you be so ignorant on the subject? Muhammad was quite literally a warlord. An army leader. The "sex-mad" part is of course a subjective appreciation, but it suffices to say his proposition and practice of polygamy was non-standard at the time.
The alleged pedophilia is, it seems to me, a selective application of modern mores onto ancient history.
Irrelevant. He was either a pedophile or not. By the accounts of the Qur'an he was. Next thing you know you're gonna deny that slavery was practiced in the United States and you're gonna insist that we call it something else lest we have a "selective application of modern morals onto ancient history". Facts are facts, you can be more or less judgemental of them depending on how flexible your moral code is, but that doesn't change the underlying truth.
If we did the same to Christendom or Judaism or basically basically any other -ism, I expect we'd find that in those circles back then it was (also) pretty regular practice to consider women adults (in the sense of ready for sexual relations) after their first menstruation.
You're severely confused. Aisha's marriage is supposed to have happened before womanhood. That's part of the islamic teachings. And the source for many islamic authorities' teachings that girls can be given into marriage as early as 2 years young. Not only morally dubious by the standards of the day, but the source of hideous moral atrocities today, in parts of the world where Sharia is the law, the only law
In addition I never shy away from casting moral judgement on past events using modern standards and I think nobody should. Slavery was wrong then. is wrong now. It matters less what religion commended it.
Likewise, there is no shortage of violence and brutal killings in the history of Christianity and Judaism. And similar to Islam, there continue to be extremist, violent and racist, fringes to those religions to this day.
Islam's violence is far from a fringe phenomenon. Please feel free to condemn all violence equally but do not take me for a fool and tell me that Islam's teachings are equally dangerous to Christianity. At the very core they're all equal, but Christianity has been dragged kicking and screaming into something that's closer to the 21st century than the middle ages where vast portions of Islam still reside.
All that being said, IoM is a pile of steaming crap. I doubt anyone here disagrees. But it's not a pile of crap because of any major historical errors or for misrepresenting islam (by much). It's complete crap because it lacks any artistic value.
At any rate, the makers of IoM are not scholars and have no authority to make any claims in these matters.
Yes. And you should not speak on IoM because you are not a filmmaker or film historian and you should have no say in the matter. How about that?
How about judging the message less than the messenger? A pile of crap, or a masterpiece, is either one or the other irrespective of it's author.