Measles Outbreak In NYC 747
sandbagger writes "New York City may have to deal with a measles problem. New Yorkers are being urged to make sure all household members, including young children, are vaccinated. To date, there have been 16 confirmed cases and four hospitalizations. This follows news from the CDC in December that 2013 saw triple the average number of yearly measles cases. 2014 is off to an even worse start; there have been cases recently in the Boston metropolitan area and more than a dozen in the Bay Area as well. Vaccinations seem to be a victim of their own success — people look around and see no polio or measles and wonder why they should bother. Others repeat bogus claim about vaccines causing autism. How do you think we can get through to the anti-vaxxers?"
Thanks Jenny (Score:5, Insightful)
Thanks a lot you dumb bitch.
Re:Thanks Jenny (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
It's also popular with people who don't agree with you. Although they tend to use "Troll" more.
Re:Thanks Jenny (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Thanks Jenny (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3)
Line the makers of Gardisil up on the firing line first. And if you feel strongly about protecting them you are more than welcome to stand in front of them to catch the bullets :)
I have to agree. I'm generally in favor of vaccines, (I had a bad case of chicken pox in my twenties -- I'm told I smelled like rotting meat -- daughter got the chicken pox vaccine) but drew the line at Gardisil. I think that was an illustration that you can't take either side of the argument completely at their word.
Which, come to think of it, is true for most arguments.
Re:Thanks Jenny (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
Well, I suppose you get to feel smarter than one individual person. Maybe validate some opinions about attractive blonde famous celebrities if that's your thing. I guess one could consider those w
Re:Thanks Jenny (Score:5, Informative)
Do we blame her by being misled by the study? No. But once the study was refuted and the findings retracted she refused to change her tune. And so we blame her for using her celebrity status to push a dangerously misguided position that is leading to increased deaths and illnesses that would never have happened had she not pushed her cause and refused to change her position when the study was proven false.
Obvious Answer (Score:5, Insightful)
We should present to them the facts! That will sway their minds. /sarcasm...
Re:Obvious Answer (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Obvious Answer (Score:4, Interesting)
Think of it along the lines of a warranty on an expensive machine being void if the owner fails to follow the maintenance schedule.
And for those that want to argue religious freedom, please bear in mind that even Christian Science, as against intrusive medical care as they are, still has room for its adherents to follow vaccination laws where applicable.
Re: (Score:3)
You can't deny coverage in a single-payer system. You just crank up the deductible/copay, for punishment. Accept the consequences of that action or get out of the business of governing.
And those who do not vaccinate are costing us all money in a single-payer system, which is reason to compel vaccination.
Which is reason to decide on a single-payer healthcare system based not on supposed cost savings, nor even charity/indigent care, but on the inevitable loss of individual choice. Remember, those who do no
Re:Obvious Answer (Score:5, Insightful)
Remember, those who do not vaccinate their children put their children at risk, but these are THEIR children, not 'ours'.
This is simply not correct. There are a number reasons some children can not be vaccinated, including allergies and other health problems. Generally, if vaccinations are widespread, those that can not be vaccinated will benefit from the herd immunity afforded by general vaccination. When the number of non-vaccinated kids goes up, the effect of the herd immunity goes down putting the children that can not be vaccinated at risk.
Re: (Score:3)
Oh, well, thank God I live in the United States, where we don't hold with that socialist crap. Everyone knows our health care is the best in the world. [/sarcasm]
Re:Obvious Answer (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't ever get the flu shot because it makes me have the same symptoms as the flu the few times I did get it. I know you can't get the flu from the flu shot, but if you get all the same symptoms, you "effectively" have the flu. Should I be denied care in the case where I do get the flu?
Should people who smoke be denied care because they were told many times that it's bad for them? What about people who refuse to eat well, even though they can afford to? What about those people who don't exercise, even though you can do so for free in your own spare time?
Re:** moron (Score:4, Interesting)
that would mean demanding vaccination records for all kids in public schools
We got that around here. Want to go to public school? You must show your vaccination records. Don't want to send your kids to public school? You'd better be using an approved home school system or sending them to private, because you'll get fined or have your children taken from you if you don't educate them. We won't tell you how to educate your children, you just need to have proof that you've been using some form of acceptable education.
Re:Obvious Answer (Score:5, Insightful)
Religion is no excuse to not be vaccinated. There should be no religious exception.
Re: (Score:3)
It's not an argument when it's bullshit top to bottom. An argument requires some kind of logical chain. What religious and other faith-based nutjobs spout forth is statements, but not arguments.
Re: (Score:3)
I think it is as black and white as I'm making it; we don't allow people to crap on city sidewalks because it's a public health hazard, no matter how strongly they believe that god told them to crap on the sidewalk. You crap on the sidewalk, you get arrested. Plain and simple. Vaccination is really no different.
No matter what a person believes, we don't allow them to kill or maim other people, and it doesn't matter if the tool is a claw hammer or an easily vaccinated disease.
Re: (Score:3)
So what of people whose devout religious beliefs are non-congregational?
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Why make an exception for 'church dogma'? If you willingly subject yourself to unnecessary risks because of 'church dogma' you should be willing and able to bear the consequences of your actions. Surely the ${deity} which instilled this 'church dogma' into its believers
Re: (Score:3)
Re: Obvious Answer (Score:4, Insightful)
The problem is that the antivaxers have had their shots. It's their kids that are being put at risk. There is also the problem that they reduce herd immunity and put at risk individuals who are legitimately unable to have vaccinations such as very young babies and those with certain autoimmune diseases.
Re: Obvious Answer (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes, some people can't get vaccines (Score:3)
Sir,
Yes, some people cannot get shots. My co-worker's child died of whooping cough. (Yes, in the US, the third world of the first world!)
She was too young to get shots, not yet 3 months.
--PeterM
Re: (Score:2)
Segregate them into separate schools. Let them fester in disease.
Re:Obvious Answer (Score:4, Insightful)
Fuck it. Just ban their kids from attending public schools, daycares and the like. If they want to endanger their kids, they should not be permitted to endanger anyone else's.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
That only works as long as these people are a minority. Once they out breed you, you'll have herds of disease ridden, home schooled imbeciles running the world.
Re:Obvious Answer (Score:5, Interesting)
So, just as it is now?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
If sick kids can out breed healthy ones and become a majority, what does that indicate to you?
Re:Obvious Answer (Score:5, Interesting)
I agree. I can't take my dog to a kennel without proof of vaccination. Are our dogs in kennels more important to protect than our children in schools?
Re: (Score:3)
testimonials (Score:2, Insightful)
http://www.followingvaccinations.com
As long as trends like this happen, you won't get through to them.
MMR Outcry? (Score:4, Interesting)
Why worry - its natural selection in action (Score:5, Insightful)
Its sad, but if the kids of parents who only think on a base emotional level die then its clearing out the human gene pool. We should thank them.
Re:Why worry - its natural selection in action (Score:5, Informative)
Herd immunity [wikipedia.org]
The trouble is they're putting others at risk who, for varying reasons, are unable to be vaccinated. That is irresponsible, to say the least.
Re:MMR Outcry? (Score:5, Insightful)
Casually watching the autism debate, I see that autism is:
- Now a spectrum, not a syndrome or disease. This has enlarged the affected population, enhancing the power of their advocates and increasing the urgency of finding a solution;
- Being blamed (root cause) on vaccines, diet, environmental effects, technology, with a de-emphasis on genetics and prenatal care.
- Used to describe many more behaviors, hence becoming a 'spectrum', not a syndrome or disease or even a process.
- Described as a growing treat, capable of potentially impacting a majority of the population, being caused by a multitude of toxins, exposures, and behaviors, hence the urgency to find 'a cure'.
This pattern is familiar to me. Have you other /.rs seen this before?
Re:MMR Outcry? (Score:5, Interesting)
As a parent of a child with autism (as well as someone who is likely on the spectrum as well, albeit not diagnosed), I feel qualified to clarify some of this:
Autism is a developmental disorder. (It was never a "disease" as that implies being contagious. You'll never "catch" autism from me or my son.) The term "spectrum" is used because autism can describe individuals with vastly different levels of developmental delays. My son is very high functioning, you might not know from a casual observance that he even has autism, until he can't cope any more and melts down because his schedule changed slightly. Other kids with autism around my son's age might be non-verbal or have other, more severe, issues that their parents deal with.
This is only true for the anti-vaxxers and other such groups. Scientists actually investigating the cause of autism are focused on genetics as the primary cause. There might be environmental factors as well, but it looks like those only trigger existing genetic markers. I often liken it to diabetes. You can get diabetes from environmental factors (eating too much high sugar food), but your risk for it is determined by your genes.
See my first answer as to why it is a spectrum.
Again, this is just those anti-vaxxer/etc groups. Personally, I don't want to be cured. My brain is just fine as it is. In fact, I credit my autism with helping me program computers. (One of the traits of people with Asperger's Syndrome/High Functioning Autism is thinking in If-Then terms. Horrible for social situations, but fantastic for working with computers which operate - at a basic level - on an if-then system.)
The "growing threat" is just due to better detection. Were I my son's age now, I'd likely get diagnosed, but back when I was a kid that didn't happen. I was just termed as "shy" and perhaps "weird." I took things too literally ("take off your coat" => I take it off and put it on the floor) and didn't understand why people seemed to "get" this socialization thing where I didn't. It was almost like everyone got some How To Socialize instruction book and they forgot to give one to me. (I could get a diagnosis now, but that would spend money we don't have and wouldn't really help me or my son.)
The best thing for kids with autism is early intervention. Detect it early and give them therapy and other resources to help them deal with the neurotypical world. (That'd be the rest of you who aren't autistic. Never use the term "normal" to someone dealing with autism unless you want an angry diatribe directed at you.)
Re:MMR Outcry? (Score:4, Interesting)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Hmm ...
1964 + 25 = 1990, first bump
1964 + 25 + 25 = 2014 new bump?
Maybe this is just the half-time of the shots, and it's time to refresh? I.e. "2014, third dose recommended"
Re:MMR Outcry? (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe this is just the half-time of the shots, and it's time to refresh? I.e. "2014, third dose recommended"
If that were the case, you'd be seeing the new cases in people over the age of 30. Instead it's pretty much all kids.
Re:MMR Outcry? (Score:5, Informative)
Herd immunity isn't rubbish. The reason we're worried is because of three things:
1) People who can't be vaccinated due to medical conditions. If you have an immune system disorder or are allergic to the vaccine, you won't be able to be vaccinated. In this case, you need to rely on herd immunity.
2) People who are too young to be vaccinated. Suppose you have an 8 month old baby and plan on vaccinating her. However, the MMR is given at 12 months. So your baby is still susceptible until then.
3) Vaccines aren't 100% effective. Nothing is. However, they are around 99.9% effective. Of course, with millions being vaccinated, this still means that thousands will still be susceptible.
If everyone was vaccinated who could be, herd immunity would protect these other people. When anti-vaxxers first started out, they relied on herd immunity also. Skip the measles vaccine and nothing happens! Because of herd immunity. As the numbers of anti-vaxxers grow, though, herd immunity breaks down and the diseases spread.
If anti-vaxxers were only affecting themselves/their children, I'd take a "it's a personal choice, albeit one I disagree with" stance. Since their choice affects (and kills) other people, though, I don't see this as a right of theirs. You don't have the right to kill someone else's baby because you want to listen to Andrew Wakefield and Jenny McCarthy.
Re:MMR Outcry? (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
Actually, a bunch of the doctors that helped create some of these vaccines did deliberately expose themselve to the diseases as proof to the public that it worked. This was back in first part of the 20th century when people couldn't believe that vaccines actually worked as well as claimed. Go read up on how some of them were created. Back then scientists were hardcore and all about proving their stuff was safe and better for the public at large. They felt they had a committment to society to:
1. Make the
Tell them a story (Score:5, Insightful)
Tell these people a story about a kid that got sick and nearly died because of not being vaccinated. It was recently shown to be effective, which makes sense, since these people seem to think emotionally rather than rationally. Evidence does nothing to convince them.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Tell them a story (Score:5, Interesting)
Neither of those are at all true. Plenty of pediatricians (like ours) refuse to treat willfully unvaccinated kids because of the high risk they present to other patients. If you're taking a two week old baby into the doctor's office for a well baby checkup, the last thing you want to see is some moron's measles vector sitting in the same waiting room. "First, do no harm" nicely dovetails with "by condoning and tolerating anti-science Luddites spreading disease through your office."
This isn't uncommon and most doctors who feel this way make no attempt to hide it [thedailybeast.com]. If nothing else, if a patient doesn't trust their doctor when recommending safe, prudent vaccinations, will they trust that same doctor to recommend emergency surgery or other invasive treatments? If there's not a trust relationship, why even bother with it?
Anti-vaxxers should come to expect that their rejection of science leaves them to see only homeopaths and other witch doctors because science-based ones won't touch them with a 10 foot pole. If they want to practice voodoo, why should they want or expect to receive all the other benefits of legitimate medicine?
Dumb logic (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Dumb logic (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Dumb logic (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
The CIA used a fake movie to get people out of Iran, that doesn't mean Hollywood is just part of the intelligence apparatus.
Re: (Score:2)
they used a doctor to try to get into the compound where he was to report what he saw
Re:Dumb logic (Score:5, Informative)
It was *not* a fake polio vaccination campaign. Every one of the subjects got a *real* polio vaccine. The catch was that the vaccination wasn't the only thing they did.
People have died, but not because they got fake polio vaccines, but because Pakistanis are now refusing to get vaccines at all because they're afraid they're all CIA fronts.
Re:Dumb logic (Score:4, Interesting)
Actually I think you might be onto something;
"Remember people, measles kills, autism doesn't! Get the jab now!"
Re: (Score:3)
Those who are against vaccination believe there is a connection. I think it could be easier to convince them that vaccination is the lesser of two evils than that there is, in fact, no connection.
A slogan that says something along the lines of 'Death from measles or autism, which is best for your child?' might be more successful with these people than 'the evidence does not support a link between vaccination and autism'
People need to realize... (Score:5, Insightful)
People need to realize that Andrew Wakefield, the father of the anti-vax movement as we know it today, was discredited and disgraced for the shoddiness of his so-called "research".
Oh yeah, and he had a vested interest in kids not getting MMR vax - I think he had ownership of a patent on a different rubella-only vaccine. Herp derp.
open research (Score:2)
A bit of common sense maybe? (Score:2)
- free vaccinations
- no insurance coverage for treatment if you are not vaccinated
- fines for not vaccinating your children
That leaves stupidity as the only reason not to get vaccinated. Hopefully the money collected from those fines is then used to do something about the stupidity.
If the fines then become an incentive for parents to not treat their children, there should be child abuse laws for not giving your child required medical care that kick in. You could also reverse it, i.e. a tax deduction fo
Re: (Score:2)
- fines for not vaccinating your children
All fines are a tax on the poor. Just like parking/speeding tickets, rich people can ignore the law and pay it off with loose change.
1 - better education in general
2 - campaigns to discredit the anti-vax conmen
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
- free vaccinations
That could work
- no insurance coverage for treatment if you are not vaccinated
Insurance companies would love that, but I'm pretty sure it would violate the ACA
- fines for not vaccinating your children
Unconstitutional.
That leaves stupidity as the only reason not to get vaccinated./p>
Stupidity, ignorance, religious preference (which I know a lot of people 'round these parts will lump in with stupidity), lack of access, distrust of the government, distrust of doctors, etc.
Just because you can only think of one reason doesn't mean it's the only reason.
there should be child abuse laws for not giving your child required medical care that kick in.
Look, bud, if you don't like living in a country that promotes and supports individual liberty, you're free to either try and am
Re:A bit of common sense maybe? (Score:5, Insightful)
And you would most assuredly be wrong. Certainly not recently. We are quite careful about what we eat, tending only to eat those things God fashioned and directed us to eat.
God provided me with a cheeseburger yesterday, and it was aluminumally delicious.
Yes, I'm making fun of you. All opinions aren't equal, and yours is incredibly naive and dangerous. You're endangering your kids for no legitimate reason, you're a bad parent, and I have no desire to be tactful about this idiocy anymore.
Dunno (Score:2)
I don't see how we could get through to them, they've already jumped the bandwagon on at least one dubious claim, facts and research clearly aren't swaying these people. Letting them contract the disease and then tell them why they can't be cured of it, and may die, might have a much larger impact. Sucks that it has to put the rest of us at risk first though.
Re: (Score:2)
On the plus side: Darwin will take care of them.
DNA Testing (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe we'll have the capability to cheaply trace each confirmed case back to the source through the DNA of diseases. Turn a few ambulance chasing lawyers loose on folks causing outbreaks for whatever reason and a few people might change their tune.
Punishing the victims. The people who need to be punished are the conmen who promote the anti-vaccine agenda. They are all making bank off of books, interviews, paid lectures, etc.
Re: (Score:2)
Solution that might be a crime (Score:2)
It's easy. There's usually hospital or school records of people being vaccinated. If they're not, pin them down and vaccinate them. What would you be charged with? Protecting their life?
Re: (Score:3)
The whole idea of vaccinations is that they make it impossible for a disease to spread through a community, that it'll die in its current host before it finds another person who either didn't gain immunity from the vaccine or couldn't be vaccinated for medical reasons. You don't get that benefit at low coverage rates.
You won't get through to them (Score:5, Insightful)
How do you think we can get through to the anti-vaxxers?
Unfortunately, I don't think anything will get through to them until their kids and loved ones start dying from very old and highly preventable diseases.
Their mindset is one much like the followers of creationism, etc where they believe that:
1) All scientists have been bought out by "big pharma" or
2) That the consensus among the scientific community is some kind of organized ploy to sell more and more drugs.
Because of this, no matter what scientists or public health officials say, they just plug their ears and go "LALALALALA".
Self-solving problem... (Score:2)
How do you think we can get through to the anti-vaxxers
Let their kids start dying of these things again, it'll get through. You can't convince stupid people, especially when they have a vacuous celebrity spokesperson.
Re: (Score:3)
Unfortunately we all rely on the effect of herd immunity. A bunch of people going without the vaccine puts everyone else at risk too.
Well... (Score:2)
"How do you think we can get through to the anti-vaxxers?"
Easy... ever heard of the phrase "I say we take the safety labels off of all products and let the problem sort itself out"?
I know several people that refuse to vaccinate their children. They don't care what evidence you provide. They will argue until the day they die that vaccines cause autism. You can't argue with that level of conviction(or stupidity).
Yes, there's a good chance we're going to lose people that were vaccinated and still caught th
Send in the chief vaccination scientist (Score:2)
Public statement by the original study author (Score:4, Informative)
1. Apologize for the fact that his study was flawed, and explain why.
2. That no other study has established any material basis in any respect for a link between autism and vaccines or their components.
3. The original funding for this supposed research was made by lawyers who were attempting to find reason to litigate against vaccine manufacturers.
4. That many people will now die of diseases that were nearly eradicated a mere 15 years ago similar to smallpox a few years before it was eradicated.
Put that as a public service announcement on every major TV and radio channel, and online as well, as widely as possible. Show pictures of what happens when people don't vaccinate, particularly to children, the elderly and immune-compromised individuals (e.g. transplant saved his/her life, now they die). Have him make this appeal over and over again until people get this.
Even if we don't get to 100%, we owe it to everyone around us. The public health costs are staggering, and the stupidity is mind boggling.
Re: (Score:2)
I don't know if you've been following, but Andrew Wakefield fled the UK and doubled down on the crazy so I don't think you'll get any of those things out of him.
Re: (Score:3)
1. Andrew Wakefield is unapologetic and still claims that his study was valid. He vocally blames a conspiracy theory for his problems.
2. After so long of playing the "conspiracy" card, if he were to suddenly recant now his followers would most likely decide that he's been "gotten to" by the Illuminati (etc.). It is very unlikely they'd all go "Oh it was a mistake? Good to know, we'll just get off to the GP's for a full round of vaccinations then".
Wait (Score:2)
It's a shitty solution and totally unfair to the kids, but I think it's the only solution.
Trying to reason with an "anti-vaxxer" is like trying to reason with the contrail folks. Just not going to be productive.
The only way this movement is going to die is when a sufficient number of parents watch their non-vaccinated children die or become horribly disfigured from long-since dealt with diseases.
Re: (Score:3)
Unfortunately vaccination is one of those issues where their mistake (loss of group immunity) hurts someone else (endemic measles finds a ward of immunocompromised patients). That's why it's a social issue, not an individual one.
Marketing is everything. (Score:5, Funny)
Just tell them that the vaccine is fully organic, low sodium, fat free and gluten free.
Also, it's got Electrolytes.
Re: (Score:2)
But is it made of chemicals?
Re: (Score:2)
It's got what plants crave!
Just tell them that the vaccine is... gluten free.
Is it really, or is that snark? I mean, I know you're making fun of treehuggers, but "gluten free" is a legitimate health concern for a lot of people.
Re: (Score:3)
For certain definitions of "a lot". If you're one of the one in several hundred people who has celiac disease, then, yeah, you should avoid eating it. Otherwise it's not a problem.
It's also only a concern even for sufferers of celiac disease when it's in the small intestine. Intravenous injections should not be a problem.
Re: (Score:3)
Anti-Vaxxers? Try Population Density (Score:2, Interesting)
Point fingers at "anti-vaxxers" all you want, that's not the root of the issue (not to say that it's not an issue). So long as we keep cramming more and more humans into smaller and smaller areas, we're just begging for a pandemic to come through and wipe out a fair amount of the population.
Think about new "super-diseases" like MRSA, or H041 Gonorrhea, which some experts are saying is a worse STD than AIDS. [rt.com]
No vaccination is going to save you from disease-related death if you're all crammed together like cat
Re: (Score:3)
Oh rubbish. People lived in far closer proximity in medieval times than they do now. Apart from the black death which only happened once in a big way with a few smaller outbreaks over the centuries and spanish flu (which isn't bothered by proximity anyway), there haven't been any major pandemics that have come close to wiping us out.
Re: (Score:3)
So you're expecting an outbreak of smallpox any day now then, as soon as the population density hits a certain point?
Measles is highly contagious disease which is preventable with a simple vaccine, and it was getting tantalisingly close to the point of being eradicated. Now less people are getting vaccinated, and the number of cases are on the up. That is not a coincidence.
If we could come up with effective and lasting vaccines for MRSA of H041 Gonorrhea, we could wipe them out with a sufficiently widesprea
Re:Anti-Vaxxers? Try Population Density (Score:5, Insightful)
I skipped the second M of the MMR (mumps), as my sons exposure risk was minimal and it's very treatable with lower bad outcomes than the vaccine.
Have you ever seen the mumps? What kind of sadistic bastard would rather see his kid suffer through that than a 5-second injection?
Message (Score:2)
As far as I'm concerned, the message should be:
"Here's the only link between vaccines and autism: if you don't vaccinate your children, they might die before they can even be diagnosed with autism."
How much of this is caused by antivax supporters? (Score:2)
I've heard it said before that preventable disease outbreaks like this happen because children who are typically not yet old enough to be vaccinated come into contact with a more mature individual who was never vaccinated.
If so, it seems to me that the only reason this kind of thing keeps happening is because of THEIR choice... and their choice is directly affecting the lives of other children that they could communicate the disease to.
As for how to really get them to support vaccinations? I can only
Jail (Score:2)
Simply make them criminally liable for any other people who catch measles from them or their children.
Also revoke their health care coverage. And eliminate excused exemptions from vaccinations except when approved by a panel of doctors.
Meanwhile... (Score:2)
... meanwhile on anti-vax FB pages that I have gotten into, they are having measles-parties, mumps-parties, and the like. Intentionally exposing their kids to disease.
*you think* your kid might become autistic, if va (Score:4, Insightful)
Ok, so *you think* your kid might become autistic, if vaccinated.... Better to have a live autistic child than one that is dead from whooping cough.
When it came time to discuss this with our DR, she said to us, "You don't want to see what it's like to watch a child die from whooping cough." It took about 2 seconds for my wife and I to process that, and decide what the larger risk is.
Cut them off (Score:5, Insightful)
If you don't vaccinate your child, fine. But if you reject society like that then expect society to reject you.
No vaccination? Forbidden from attending school. Forbidden from visiting a doctor. Forbidden from visiting any public facilities like libraries, train stations, or airports. Forbidden from riding a bus or train or taxi.
Shunning (Score:3)
I've lost friends over this. (Score:5, Interesting)
I've always known some people that were stupid enough to fall for this garbage. And I always told them how dumb they were being. But now I have my own kid. Now, I ask... "Is your kid vaccinated?" and if not they are not allowed in my house, and not allowed around my kid unless mandated by law (school) One couple got mad at me, and I finally just told them to go screw themselves. The life of my child is not worth maintaining your pseudoscience addled minds fantasy. I'm sick of it, and everyone else should be to. Ostracize these people and their kids. Do not allow them near you. The only thing that will fix this insane fad is peer pressure.
Anti-Vax home schoolers (Score:4, Informative)
My wife and I home school our two daughters. There is a home school support group in our area that is frequented by several anti-vaccine families. My daughters are up to date on their vaccines and we don't associate with the anti-vax nut jobs. Please don't assume that all home schoolers are anti-vax.
Re: (Score:3)
I'm not a homeschooler (all my kids are in public), but I've known a few. One of my best friends is a family practice doc. His family homeschools because they believe they can give a better education than the local schools in his small town, but he's adamantly in favor of vaccination.
Homeschooling absolutely doesn't imply anti-vax (although the Venn diagram does overlap a fair bit).
Re:Simple: Let them die. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
How is it you have the brains to learn to read and write, but in other respects appear to be an ignorant halfwit?
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