Research Shows E-Cigs Might Be As Good For Quitting As Nicotine Patches 314
"Taking a drag from an e-cigarette may be just as safe and effective as slapping on a nicotine patch for smokers struggling to quit, according to the first physician-run trial to compare the two products." That's according to research recently published in The Lancet (PDF) and reported by Bloomberg. Why is this significant? From the article: "If European and U.S. regulators treat e-cigarettes as medical devices, yet leave cigarettes on general sale, tobacco makers 'will retain their market monopoly, and we will never learn whether e-cigarettes would replace traditional cigarettes if allowed to continue evolving and competing with smoked tobacco on even terms,' [wrote clinical psychology professor Peter Hajek]. The results will also be presented today at the European Respiratory Society’s annual meeting in Barcelona.
E-cigarettes have taken Europe and the U.S. by storm. In France, there are more than 1 million regular users, according to a government-commissioned report published in May. Sales worldwide will probably approach $2 billion by the end of this year and top $10 billion by 2017, according to a forecast by Wells Fargo & Co."
second hand e-smoke (Score:2, Funny)
yummy, I always like breathing in someone else's medicated ethylene glycol.
Re:second hand e-smoke (Score:5, Informative)
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It's probably not completely safe for the smoker. A recent (just last month) study found that e-cigarettes do indeed contain carcinogens, in some cases showing similar levels of formaldehyde and acrolein as regular cigarettes.
Article about the study. [yahoo.com]
Re:second hand e-smoke (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:second hand e-smoke (Score:4, Informative)
Re:second hand e-smoke (Score:5, Informative)
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Yeah, I was curious about that too. I feel inclined to go with the lancet over a french consumers group.
I'm also kindof sick of all e-cigs being grouped together as if its a monolithic and uniform product. It's not. I could give two shits about what eliquid producers in france are doing. Or all that shit made in china. eLiquid i buy from a retailer trusted by the eliquid geeks on the e-cig forums is not the same product as whatever they 'tested' in that 'study.'
I'd be very interested to read a proper scie
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I did eventually manage to quit, but it was only by going cold turkey. Every time I wanted a smoke, I would start lifting weights instead. By the time I was finished with my workout, I found that I no longer had that immediate craving. After about the first month, I reached my first day in a long time where I didn't even think about smoking. Five years
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Congratulations on getting off the addiction wagon. I'd certainly say "less is more" when it comes to things people put in their bodies. That said, after 20 years of smoking and switching to e-cigs myself, the most important advice I have to those interested in pursuing vaping is to use quality equipment and e-liquid. The cheap, disposable e-cigs found in many gas stations and their cheap rechargeable counterparts available online will disappoint most people. The quality control in the cheap products is non
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Re:second hand e-smoke (Score:5, Insightful)
Is it? Is there any *real* evidence that pure nicotine, in these sort of doses, is actually harmful for you, when not associated with tars, benzene, and all the other nasties in cig smoke? Or is it more like caffeine, where it might exactly be "healthy", but the real risk at typical usage levels is miniscule.
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Re:second hand e-smoke (Score:4, Insightful)
Well if you don't mind being addicted and the costs related to it, then go ahead and do it.
I don't mind it with coffee, so why should it be any different with e-cigarettes? I think this is a great idea if there truly are no secondhand issues.
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Yes, there are studies showing harmful effects on people using nicotine gum or patches.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine#Toxicology [wikipedia.org]
Re:second hand e-smoke (Score:4, Informative)
Yes, there are studies showing harmful effects on people using nicotine gum or patches.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine#Toxicology [wikipedia.org]
These harmful effects are minimal. From your citation: ... no epidemiological evidence supports that nicotine alone acts as a carcinogen in the formation of human cancer .... The only demonstrated negative effect was on birth defects, and I am skeptical about that: many of the women studied had switched from smoked tobacco when they realized they were pregnant, so it is likely many of them where still smoking during the first month of gestation without realizing they were knocked up, and it is also likely that many of them were sneaking some smokes later in the pregnancy. Also, people that smoke tend to have plenty of other unhealthy habits as well, like drinking alcohol and eating crap food. So this might be a "correlation is not causation" situation.
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Nice job of selective quoting. The rest of the paragraph says:
research over the last decade has identified nicotine's carcinogenic potential in animal models and cell culture. Nicotine has been noted to directly cause cancer through a number of different mechanisms such as the activation of MAP Kinases. Indirectly, nicotine increases cholinergic signalling (and adrenergic signalling in the case of colon cancer), thereby impeding apoptosis (programmed cell death), promoting tumor growth, and activating growt
Re: second hand e-smoke (Score:2, Offtopic)
Is it? Is there any *real* evidence that pure nicotine, in these sort of doses, is actually harmful for you, when not associated with tars, benzene, and all the other nasties in cig smoke? Or is it more like caffeine, where it might exactly be "healthy", but the real risk at typical usage levels is miniscule.
Umm, mouth cancer from chewing tobacco? Regardless of the health effects nicotine is still addictive, the only thing that helped me quit was a prescription for Chantix.
Re: second hand e-smoke (Score:5, Interesting)
Chantix was great. I was able to quit after a week of taking it. I was smoke free for a few years.
I started smoking again when my wife passed a few months ago. I tried using Chantix again but the nightmares were terrible. It got to the point were I was terrified to go to sleep. I'm going to try again when things are less "fresh."
It is amazing how quickly smoking has effected my breathing this time around. I don't remember the effects being so quick last time.
Re:second hand e-smoke (Score:4, Insightful)
Is it? Is there any *real* evidence that pure nicotine, in these sort of doses, is actually harmful for you, when not associated with tars, benzene, and all the other nasties in cig smoke? Or is it more like caffeine, where it might exactly be "healthy", but the real risk at typical usage levels is miniscule.
I dont think it would be healthy per se, but definitely not worse than the other crap we're legally using (alcohol, pain killers, apple products). The big problem with Tobacco is not nicotine, but the other carcinogenic chemicals included as you pointed out.
The problem we have with Nicotine is that its addictive, but considering E-Cigs are an attempt to wean tobacco addicts onto a less dangerous product I'd say it's a huge step in the right direction.
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That isn't true for a lot of e-cigarette users there are a number of reasons why you might use them.
socially many people do not want stale cigarette smoke in their homes and find the e-cigarette an acceptable alternative. So when socialising with non-smokers a tobacco smoker will use the e-cigarette instead of a regular cigarette. You can also add other situations where cigarettes are forbidden but e-cigarettes are acceptable.
Health wise probably tar is the biggest issue from regular cigarettes its what
Re:second hand e-smoke (Score:4, Insightful)
If your going to troll as an AC, don't Preveiw under your UID then post Anonymously, because your sig is inserted into the post,
-- Ethanol-fueled
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That was his original user name but his karma is so far in the toilet that an AC who starts at 0 has a better chance of being seen. He puts it there and is laughing at you right now for getting his troll seen. You might want to look at this. [kuro5hin.org]
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I smoke e-cigars. They're safe, but they still smell like burning camel shit.
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They're not safe. They're safer. Which is a big difference. I met a seller of e-cigs a while back and he was pretty clear that e-cigs aren't an excuse to start smoking, they're a safer replacement for the real thing.
Re:second hand e-smoke (Score:4, Informative)
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hard to do, I've noticed. the droplets are big and don't go that far. better than cigarette smoke anyway, second hand smoke doesn't dry my eyes out
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It's not smoke, it's vapor.
Re:second hand e-smoke (Score:5, Informative)
yummy, I always like breathing in someone else's medicated ethylene glycol.
It's propylene glycol. But besides that, second hand nicotine was never an issue (and propylene glycol is recognized as safe, and even used in many asthma inhalers). The harm from second hand smoke comes from the smoke particles, something that's not present in e-cig vapor.
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second hand nicotine was never an issue (and propylene glycol is recognized as safe, and even used in many asthma inhalers). The harm from second hand smoke comes from the smoke particles, something that's not present in e-cig vapor.
Safe in asthma inhaler != safe when heated. The asthma inhalant is delivered by pressure. And there is still plenty of argument over the safety of both propylene glycol and ethylene glycol when heated, and both are used in e-cigs. As well, nicotine and tar will build up on surfaces from smoking and will transfer by touch.
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Did you just get back from imagination land?
Because it's not an issue.
Read your own link and think about what is actually being said.
Was that so hard?
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I hate breathing in second hand antifreeze too. Good thing most people smoke Propylene Glycol.
Might be? (Score:5, Interesting)
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More anecdotal evidence: Looking at the several people I know who switched from cigarettes to e-cigs, this is common. At least you can control it.
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I don't know what those guys are doing to the tobacco in manufactured smokes, but it's something evil.
Current research (done by someone I was in biomedical science classes with) suggests that monoamine oxidase inhibitors [nih.gov] may have a role in the increased addiction of cigarettes over plain tobacco -- although that article in particular suggests people using roll-your-own tobacco may have a harder time quitting.
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I found going to the gym works.
My intention wasn't to quit smoking.
I found that smoking before spending an hour on a treadmill dramatically effected my performance. Not rocket science there. Any exposure to carbon monoxide will do that.
Smoking recently afterwards however made me feel like shit.
I guess the fairly close association with smoking -> negative physical response broke the addiction.
Re:Might be? (Score:4, Insightful)
So that's not quite a successful quit yet, but in terms of harm reduction it's looking good so far. Since I can control the strength of the liquid by mixing it myself, I'm working on a very long, gentle taper down.
SINNER! Repent and accept our righteous anti-smoker ways! You're polluting us! You smell bad! People like you are scummy addicts who should be locked away in jail!
Or something. Look... the fact is, the anti-smoker contingent is trying to ban e-cigs and government is trying to tax the hell out of them because they look at it as people 'escaping' their 'public health' tax... so it's a match made in heaven.
What's really telling is that I was sucking on an e-cig in a hospital... and no doctor or nurse said a word. Wanna know why? Because it's not harmful to them or their patients... and it's no worse than a patch. They want people to quit. The jury's still out on whether e-cigs help with that, but they clearly don't hurt... and from a harm reduction standpoint, they're about a hundred times better.
But... no matter. You are a sinner, a scumbag... an addicted fool we need to tax every penny from... for your own good of course!
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They want people to quit. The jury's still out on whether e-cigs help with that, but they clearly don't hurt... and from a harm reduction standpoint, they're about a hundred times better.
I'm reminded of what I heard on NPR last week [publicradio.org], talking about how in a single year e-cig use has doubled by high schoolers. Unstated is whether it's displacing real cigarette use. Certainly stated is a fear that it'll lead to smoking 'real cigarettes'.
What I didn't know is that some state laws are set up such that e-cigs are legal to the sub-18 crowd.
Anyways, From the anti-ecig stuff I've heard I get a feeling of 'if a solution isn't perfect we shouldn't do it', and 'smoking is evil; anything resembling sm
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So long as you leave cigarettes legal and available your argument is pointless. The teenagers will simply choose the greater evil if they can't get the ecigs. Also this is an extremely cheap activity, so you can rest your worries about that concern. I used to smoke, and occasionally, like 6 times a year, use an ecig when drinking too excess.
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A guy I know switch to ecigs, not so much as a path to quitting, but because it's a less unhealthy alternative. He said that after a week or so his sense of smell had returned, and after a bit longer he wasn't coughing up revolting crap each morning. And I certainly noticed that he didn't pollute every room he entered.
Once you remove the smoke from the equation, is nicotine any worse than caffeine? Aside from the gross birth defects that is.
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Once you remove the smoke from the equation, is nicotine any worse than caffeine?
I am having a bit of trouble with that. I like nicotine. If the health effects are minimal enough, then why was I quitting again? I'm tapering it down anyway (I reduced my caffeine consumption years ago). Should I still go all the way? I'm going to let future me deal with that issue.
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Aside from the gross birth defects that is.
Cite, please?
It isn't thalidomide, after all. The only thing I could find was a tenuous link to low birth weight.
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I switched too, and I sure do love my e-cigs.
The bad part is I'm still spending money I don't have to, and there's definitely an element of addiction at play.
The good part is my lungs much, much improved, I don't get tired climbing stairs, I don't stink, I'm saving a *ton* of money, and my risk of lung cancer it not much higher that of someone who's never smoked (as I'm not yet 30). I also get to play with fun flavors and stuff in addition to different types of e-cigarettes, which mak
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If you really want to save some money (and have a more satisfying ecig), get a rebuildable atomizer/tank. The replacement heater wire (nichrome or kanthal) and silica wick is dirt cheap and lasts forever. You may even enjoy finding the ideal coil and wick setup. personally I am using 34 ga. nichrome @ 3 ohms and 1mm silica wick.
There really is no good excuse for the various attempts to ban or regulate e-cigs going on. They are certainly better than smoking and the industry has done a good job self regulatin
Re:Might be? (Score:5, Interesting)
Further anecdotal evidence:
Every person I know who has tried e-cigs seems to feel better and find it's something they can stick with. I'd rather everyone were addicted to those horrible things than the ghastly alternative, at least it's a start.
Re:Might be? (Score:5, Interesting)
Another anecdote: Me. Almost exactly a year ago I was a smoker, then a year minus one day ago, I was an "e-cig" vaper. I made the switch that easily and quickly. And (so far) it has been a tobacco *replacement* not a route for quitting, though I can see how it could be, I'm just not using it for that it. There was an initial learning curve and expense, but now it's cheaper, and (theoretically) safer. Nicotine is *not* a harmful drug. The low doses vapers or smokers consume are decidedly non-harmful, when compared to *many* other substances that modern humans typically eat, drink and inhale. It's demonstrably non-carcinogenic. Though I guess we can't expect a rational response to the dangers of ingested substances with the state of things being as they are.
I wish we had hundreds of thousands of people marching in the streets chanting "Be Reasonable!" and "Use Science, not Fear", and maybe even "Have a Heart!".
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Very similar here. I'm currently mixing down to 6mg/ml. I do notice that my ecig addiction isn't quite as urgent and my old cigarette addiction was. I still wouldn't want to go a day without, but I can go much longer without a vape without really noticing than I could without cigarettes. The best explanation I have seen is that the MAOIs in tobacco smoke that are not in an ecig potentiate the nicotine and it's addictive properties.
Meanwhile I breathe much better than before and lost the smoker's cough.
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Myself and my wife have both switched to e-cigs full time - myself for 6 months, her a bit more reluctantly and recently. The tobacco analog flavours are pretty nasty, but then I neve actually liked the taste of tobacco anyway - it's the act of smoking and nicotine itself I'm addicted to. Now she smokes a menthol mix, and I'm a fan of fruit flavours.
I've tried to quit many, many times during a 23 year cigarette habit. Patches, gum, straight cold turkey, Allan Carr, you name it, I probably tried it. Longest
Pulling An All Nighter On Caffeine & Nicotine (Score:3)
The reasons are multifarious (Score:5, Insightful)
I started smoking at age 20. Deliberately. Of my own volition. Primarily for the stimulant effect and secondarily to defy the goddamn anti-smoking meddlers... their disingenuous, logical fallacy-laden TV commercials really induced my rage.
I collected approximately nine pack-years of cigarette smoking.
I broke the nicotine physical addiction several times over those years (zero nicotine intake for 3+ weeks); however, what kept dragging me back to smoking was the fact that I mentally identified myself as a smoker. Smoking was part of my identity, which meant that cessation was always in dichotomous tension between "health" and "self". To put it in perspective, I likely self-identified more strongly with the term "smoker" than the term "American".
I quit my smoking habit permanently the day I had my first e-cig delivered in 2009. A few months later I tried a single cigarette, found the taste revolting, and haven't smoked since then. Smoking is unwieldy and a serious inconvenience during the winter (I never smoked inside my domicile). Downsides of quitting smoking included having my sense of taste/smell return... the world is revolting and ignorance is bliss.
Notwithstanding, after several years of "vaping" e-cigs inside our home no one has ever been able to tell—my life partner would tell me, because she hates the smell of cigarettes and always comments whenever we are near someone who recently smoked.
I have given e-cigs to all my smoker friends and relatives. All of these people have subsequently quit smoking (some of these smokers had been engaged in the habit for 30+ years). In fact, they all quit using nicotine altogether, leaving me as the sole remaining individual in my monkeysphere who cultivates a nicotine addiction.
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After I quit smoking, every time I saw an anti-smoking ad on TV, I got a genuine urge for a cigarette.
A few times I gave in and went across the road to buy some. Trouble was then, I couldn't buy anything less than a 20-pack - 10 packs were outlawed 20 odd years ago, so I ended up smoking the entire pack before "quitting again".
Made me wonder if the tobacco companies had input in to the TV ads.
Re:The reasons are multifarious (Score:5, Interesting)
No, because I didn't pressure them to stop smoking.
Since this is Slashdot, I believe a car analogy is expected. Let's say you like to drive your gas-guzzling muscle cars. Someday someone gives you a Prius as a gift. Furthermore, that person doesn't ever bother you about whether or not you are using the Prius.
That's not meddling.
In contrast to the anti-smoking campaigners, I didn't use guilt, pressure, coercion, or logical fallacies. Instead I sent them the e-cig as a random gift with a note that suggested they try the e-cig as an upgraded nicotine delivery device. However, I never subsequently inquired if they used it. I was actually surprised when they all contacted me to report subsequently ceasing their use of nicotine altogether after using the e-cig.
Whatever, it's their choice. My personal rule is that I discontinue my addictions when I am no longer enjoying them. Therefore, I was happy they were happy about breaking their unwanted addiction nicotine, even though I find my nicotine addiction to be fulfilling.
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Cigarettes and coffee is also known as the supermodel diet.
The cigarettes act as an appetite suppressant and the coffee as a stimulant.
No need for food... unless you want to live a long and healthy life that is.
Swedish SNUS (Score:2)
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in USA FDA is butting in (Score:2)
The FDA is saying they will take control of e-cigarettes, one reason being that many under 18 are using them. Never mind that even 40+ years ago 12 year olds who wanted to smoke found ways of getting their illegal cigarettes
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The FDA has been looking for an excuse to butt in since day 1. They have used every excuse in the books and even invented new ones.
Meanwhile, they keep flogging the over-priced and largely ineffective patches their buddies in the pharmaceutical industry keep cranking out.
Not Intended for Quitting (Score:5, Interesting)
As someone who got into e-cigs relatively early (2009) and still vapes, it's important to note that they are NOT really meant for quitting. Sure, it's possible to quit using them, but they are more intended to be a replacement device. It's only quitting in the sense that you're not using traditional cigarettes anymore.
Why are they catching on?
1. They are (likely to be) healthier. Sure, some will say that e-cigs contain ingredients present in anti-freeze. These same ingredients, though, are also found in rescue inhalers, fog machines, and Twinkies. Mostly, though, they don't contain all of the tar and poisonous substances we all know are present in other cigarettes.
2. You don't smell like burnt paper, and don't make you smell like burnt paper for the rest of the day. Pretty self-explanatory.
3. (Or 2a) You can vape indoors, and stealth-vape. Smoking outdoors is fine eight months of the year here in Upstate NY. The other four months - and all of the days it's raining - having to go outdoors sucks. Not only in homes and apartments, but at bars. Also, if I'm in a place where I don't want people to know I vape, I can just go into the bathroom or a toilet stall, and nobody is the wiser. Not the same for a cigarette.
4. Much easier to maintain a constant buzz. I recently had the charger I've had since the start decide to stop working, so I switched back to traditional cigarettes. I absolutely hated that I felt like hell or got enough of a buzz to make my legs weak.
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2. You don't smell like burnt paper, and don't make you smell like burnt paper for the rest of the day. Pretty self-explanatory.
Smokers don't smell like burnt paper. Burnt paper is actually rather pleasant compared to what smokers smell like. Especially at the end of a long day. That's one of the problems with smokers, they don't realize how bad they smell because they're supressing their sense of smell. Then they get mad at people who can't stand the disgusting smell.
I completely agree that all smokers should, if they can, switch to the e-cigarettes and that they shouldn't have any restrcitions on them that tobacco products don't h
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The problem with these (Score:2)
is that everyone insists they are 100% healthy, and have none of the problems of traditional cigarettes.
Just because they don't share the same issues as cigarettes doesn't mean they are completely healthy. We need to wait until studies are done.
Given that studies have shown risk associated with nicotine patches and harmful chemicals have been found in ecigs, I think I'll wait.
Also, screw all the people who exhale in public places because they think it's acceptable to bother people with vapor because it isn'
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I'm not so sure OSHA has studied those ladders carefully enough, so thank you very much Mr. Fireman but I believe I'll stay here in this burning building where I know the risks.
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I'm not so sure about that.
So I'm in a bar this morning to watch some football (Out here in LA, football starts at 10:00AM). Since it's my first time here, I ask the bartender where I should go to smoke--or, more precisely, should I go out onto the patio. She asks if I'm smoking e-cigarettes and I say no. She says the patio is fine. I asked her about e-cigarettes, as there are a few signs around saying that there will be no smoking e-cigarettes on the site.
Well, according to her, there were people bring
Totally Disagree (Score:5, Interesting)
E-Cigarettes aren't "as good as" the patch - they are much, much better. I smoked 1-2 packs a day for 28 years and was finally able to quit due to e-cigs. My lungs sound better, I feel better, and I don't stink anymore.
The patch left me with a rash on my arm.
It's not the "tobacco industry" any more (Score:2)
Even the big players no longer identify themselves as being in the "tobacco Industry".
They are now in the "Nicotine Delivery" business, one of the only non-controlled addictive drugs sold over the counter to anyone (of age) who wants it.
Re:It's not the "tobacco industry" any more (Score:4, Insightful)
Caffeine is pretty addicting and routinely targeted at kids and sold most everywhere in one form or another.
USB charging (Score:3)
My Experience (Score:3, Interesting)
It wasn't really my intention to stop smoking altogether I just found I didn't need to anymore.
Probably took about 3 or 4 months until I realised I could taste and smell better, they really do work although I think a lot depends on the quality of the liquid used.
I'd go as far to say that they have almost certainly extended my life and I couldn't have stopped without one.
Scare quotes (Score:2)
"quitting", not quitting.
So, bad then? (Score:4, Interesting)
As I recall, nicotine patches are actively bad for quitting, compared with not using anything. What they perform better than is "placebo" patches which, of course, actually contain small amounts of nicotine. On the grounds that if they didn't you could smell the difference and they wouldn't be a proper placebo. The exact amount of nicotine is not disclosed, last I heard, but the interesting thing is that nicotine addiction appears to be highly responsive to even small amounts of nicotine getting in your system; it's only completely cutting it out that seems to actually help people shake the addiction. (That, and stuff like buproprion, which can short-circuit the addiction mechanism.)
They helped me in combination with Chantix (Score:5, Interesting)
After 22 years of smoking up to 2 packs per day, increasingly bad health and high prices ... and many previous attempts to quit smoking, I used Chantix plus an e-cig.
Chantix alone was OK at first, but then I started cheating, grabbing a puff or a half cig. I quickly learned it was the physical habit of taking a drag from a cigarette that was really hitting me. I grabbed a low nicotine e-cig and used it for those cravings (zero nicotine wasn't available locally). An "equals two packs" e-cig lasted me 2 to 3 months and after 9 months I just stopped using that too.
I've been smoke free for 18 months now. And yes, I had the weird dreams with Chantix ... I liked them!
ecigs not really a good thing... (Score:4, Insightful)
I understand that e-cigarettes may be able to be used to kick an addictive habit that has horrific health risks. However, it is another addictive pastime that probably has health risks of its own.
It has the potential of becoming a fad which would hook millions who believe it to be safe into a dangerous and expensive habit. Something the corporate powers would relish being that they consider this a real cash cow and anyone hooked a mere crop to be cultivated.
If I didnâ(TM)t have morals and I controlled an evil tobacco company I would endeavor to gain control of the e-cigarette market so that I could manipulate the price of both products. That way if tobacco sales started to fall off I could raise the price of e-cigarettes enough to drive customers to the more affordable tobacco products. Back and forth I would cultivate my crops.
as a non-smoker (Score:5, Insightful)
I really, really welcome them.
I frankly don't care if you want to kill yourself, now or over time with smoking. But you are poisoning the same air I am breathing and that bothers me. And anything that can solve that is fantastic.
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Not the most stupid strawman non-argument in the history of debate, please.
Just because problem B also exists doesn't mean problem A should be ignored. So unless there is a causal link between smoking and motor vehicles, you're just being a troll.
I really don't believe this (Score:5, Insightful)
I think e-cigarettes *could* be as good as nicotine patches for smoking cessation *if* they were promoted and regulated in the same way. But they're not. At least not yet. I expect most countries will crack down on them in due course.
Really? (Score:3)
Most of the people I know that smoke have switched to e-Cigs, not to quit, but because its not as disgusting as using traditional cigarettes. I know someone that decided to start smoking specifically because he found e-Cigs was not as hard on his lungs as a regular cigarette.
I don't think these things were created to stop smoking, they were created as a modern 21st century way to get your tobacco fix in a way that doesn't make you smell like a stale ashtray, which might actually cause smoking to increase again which will bring more profit to the tobacco industry.
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It appears you missed the point, what with the glaring 'libertarian' tags.
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Thanks for pointing that out, I'm not yet familiar with all the new features of HTML5.
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bullshit, a real libertarian would say if someone wants to use something less dangerous to themselves and others to get their nicotine, let them pay for it, let companies sell it
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How does the libertarian who doesn't want second hand nicotine react?
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How does the libertarian who doesn't want second hand nicotine react?
Ask people not to smoke on his property?
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I don't understand you objection to seeing them. I have to see
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What studies? Something funded by the e-cig industry? By the tobacco companies looking to sell a new addictive product?
Big tobacco fought tooth and nail against the idea that second hand smoke is harmful. We already know nicotine is a addictive and has some negative health effects (birth defects).
Sorry, but I certainly don't want this crap in my lungs. There needs to be controls on where it can be used.
Re:I'm OK with e-cigs (Score:4, Informative)
Good thing you don't get any second hand smoke from ecigs.
Conclusions [informahealthcare.com]: For all byproducts measured, electronic cigarettes produce very small exposures relative to tobacco cigarettes. The study indicates no apparent risk to human health from e-cigarette emissions based on the compounds analyzed.
It's easy to find a bunch of "what if" that says it's harmful second hand. People that bother to test find levels so low (if at all) that it's not a problem.
I'll agree to your controls. They can't be used where scientific evidence shows they will harm others. Better get used to the smell.
“For more than 25 years Smokefree Pennsylvania has been advocating indoor smoking bans. Based on the results of this study I see no reason for e-cigarettes to be included in smoking bans.” - Bill Godshall of Smokefree Pennsylvania.
“Most vapers believe e-cigarette vapor is not harmful to those around them, but it is reassuring to finally have scientific evidence confirming those beliefs.”- Spike Babaian, President of National Vapers Club
This is the first study to cover such a wide range of toxins, however previous studies, which have evaluated a smaller number of toxins, have shown similar results.
“The results of this study confirm the findings of my last 4 years of research. E-cigarettes pose no discernible risk to public health." - Dr. Murray Laugesen - Public Health Medicine Specialist, Health New Zealand
source [onlineprnews.com]
Re:Creative Definitions (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Well, there's no smoke in an electronic cigarette. So who is using the "creative definition," the people saying they aren't smoking or you?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
They *HAVE* quit smoking. They are no longer inhaling smoke. They are also not inhaling tars, ash particulates, carbon monoxide or any of the hundreds of non-nicotine alkaloids in tobacco.
They just haven't stopped using nicotine.
Interestingly, the vast majority (possibly all) of harms attributed to nicotine are actually from the most common delivery method or other constituents of tobacco and have nothing to do with the nicotine itself.
However, the study in TFA was quite clear that they were looking at cess