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Science

A Boost For Quantum Reality 241

Eponymous Hero sends this excerpt from Nature: "The philosophical status of the wavefunction — the entity that determines the probability of different outcomes of measurements on quantum-mechanical particles — would seem to be an unlikely subject for emotional debate. Yet online discussion of a paper claiming to show mathematically that the wavefunction is real has ranged from ardently star-struck to downright vitriolic since the article was first released as a preprint in November 2011. ... [The authors] say that the mathematics leaves no doubt that the wavefunction is not just a statistical tool, but rather, a real, objective state of a quantum system."
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A Boost For Quantum Reality

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  • maybe like this... (Score:0, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 09, 2012 @01:33AM (#39938099)

    and interesting image http://dequantified.net/preview/factorpreview.gif [slashdot.org]

  • Re:Heh (Score:5, Interesting)

    by steelfood ( 895457 ) on Wednesday May 09, 2012 @02:01AM (#39938221)

    It certainly knows.

    It knows, but you don't. You don't because you haven't measured it yet. And until you measure it, the answer is not the simplified version of the cat being dead and alive at the same time, but that there's a probability it's dead, and a probability it's alive, but it'll never be more than probability until you actually confirm it. Once you confirm it by measurement, the probability of one state goes to one, and the probability of the other state goes to zero.

    This goes back to the age-old question: If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound? It certainly makes a noise, but does it make a sound?

    If there's nothing to observe reality, does it still exist? That's the essence of Schrodinger's cat.

  • Re:Elephants! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by maxwell demon ( 590494 ) on Wednesday May 09, 2012 @02:43AM (#39938411) Journal

    the mathematics leaves no doubt that the wavefunction is not just a statistical tool, but rather, a real, objective state of a quantum system.

    If that's the case, I would suppose that wavefunctions have wavefunctions.

    Yes. That's known as second quantization.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 09, 2012 @03:35AM (#39938609)

    The paper is related to Einsten-Podolsky-Rozen (EPR) paradox and the related "hidden variables" hypothesis which AFAIU states that there are some hidden variables apart from wave function that we can not observe directly. However, under some assumptions it can be proven that their existence affects some statistical properties of a particular type of measurements and therefore can be experimentally tested. One of such theorem was Bell inequalities published in 1964. In the Nature paper in question authors prove similar "no-go" theorem but under different assumptions. To quote:

    The result is in the same spirit as Bell’s theorem[13], which
    states that no local theory can reproduce the predictions
    of quantum theory. Both theorems need to assume that
    a system has a objective physical state such that prob-
    abilities for measurement outcomes depend only on .
    But our theorem only assumes this for systems prepared
    in isolation from the rest of the universe in a quantum
    pure state. This is unlike Bell’s theorem, which needs
    to assume the same thing for entangled systems. Fur-
    thermore, our result does not assume locality in general.
    Instead we assume only that systems can be prepared
    so that their physical states are independent. Neither
    theorem assumes underlying determinism.

    There is, however, another theorem by Kochen and Specker that is not cited in this paper but also does not assume locality. From wikipedia

    The essential difference from Bell's approach is that
    the possibility of underpinning quantum mechanics
    by a hidden variable theory is dealt with independently
    of any reference to locality or nonlocality, but instead
    a stronger restriction than locality is made, namely
    that hidden variables are exclusively associated with
    the quantum system being measured; none are associated
    with the measurement apparatus. This is called the
    assumption of non-contextuality.

    It would be interesting to know what would be the relation of results from the paper to that theorem...

  • Re:I get it now (Score:5, Interesting)

    by History's Coming To ( 1059484 ) on Wednesday May 09, 2012 @03:39AM (#39938629) Journal
    The argument used to be whether the wave function was "real" or whether it was a mathematical artifact, in other words is a particle actually smeared out or does it exist at one point and we're just limited in our observations of it (aka a "hidden variable"). These days the argument is whether the (Copenhagen interpretation) wave function actually exists or whether it's a mathematical artifact of a different theory, such as Everett's "Many Worlds" interpretation. Personally I go with Everett, but for philosophical/anthropic arguments rather than anything testable at the moment.
  • Re:Heh (Score:5, Interesting)

    by jd ( 1658 ) <[moc.oohay] [ta] [kapimi]> on Wednesday May 09, 2012 @03:54AM (#39938727) Homepage Journal

    Try this as a thought experiment. Imagine your brain and your DNA scanned into a computer. This is used to generate a simulated you. This simulated you is placed in a simulated room in which all the known laws of physics are simulated to a high degree of precision.

    You are placed in an identical, but real, room. The two rooms are connected via a terminal (or, in the copy's case, a simulated terminal).

    You and the simulated you can ask for any scientific equipment that can fit into the room. Both of you can conduct whatever experiments you like. The only requirement is a unanimous agreement between you, your copy and those running the experiment as to which of you is physical and which is virtual.

    If no observation, experiment, or set of experiments, exists that can prove which is real, then you cannot prove what is "real" - there'd be nothing so unique to reality that would allow you to unquestionably establish that something belongs to reality and not to something else. If, however, you CAN through experimentation reach a unanimous verdict, then an objective reality is provable.

    It is my opinion that it is the first case that would turn out to be true.

  • by jd ( 1658 ) <[moc.oohay] [ta] [kapimi]> on Wednesday May 09, 2012 @04:21AM (#39938831) Homepage Journal

    I am not convinced that the particles regarded as fundamental actually are. I'm not even completely convinced that "particles" at that level even exist in the normal sense, since we know interference patterns exist when the gap is in time rather than in space. That makes no logical sense when using a corpuscular model.

    It is my suspicion (IANAQMPBTIBO) that in precisely the same way that matter is merely energy that has "condensed" and entangled, particles are merely waves that have "condensed" and entangled. This is based on the fact that fundamental particles of the same type are totally interchangeable and no two particles of the same type are in the same state. To me, that does not appear distinguishable from saying that a single wave appears to be every particle of that type, since that would give you what is observed without having to have any new or excessively complex physics to explain it.

    If that is correct, then neither space nor time are particularly important in QM. Which has been theorized by better minds than mine. You would be able to map everything into waveforms and not need spacetime for them to exist in. Rather, spacetime would be one way an observer could interpret those waveforms - it would be subjective, not objective. The waves themselves would be the only "reality". Again, there's a branch of QM based on just such a notion.

    To answer your question as to what is "vibrating", in this line of thought there wouldn't be anything TO vibrate, per-se, no time for it to be vibrate in and no space in which the vibrations could take place. You'd simply have a multidimensional waveform where if you made some axis space and another one time, you could treat it as though something was vibrating. In practice, though, it would be a static n-dimensional waveform whose existence was logical rather than physical.

    I like this particular branch of QM, as it means physics is a branch of mathematics, a specific group with specific properties and specific operations, and that the universe is a specific set of functions that wholly reside in that group. It makes maths the "ultimate" reality, which means these sorts of philosophical musings about the world can be answered through mathematical analysis (although maths permits that answer to be rigorously undefined).

  • Thought (Score:4, Interesting)

    by should_be_linear ( 779431 ) on Wednesday May 09, 2012 @05:13AM (#39938999)
    Here is thought I had the other day: assume mathematical "function" that defines our universe and underlying physics (function that "theory of everything" is trying to find), works in _reverse_ direction of time. So that every particle (or whatever) at t is calculated from local state at (t+1). We usually thinks of laws of physics going in "natural" direction of time. Now, after the inevitable final end of intelligent civilizations in this universe, surely there will be some artifacts made by durable nanomaterials, that persists long after stars and even black holes evaporate into 'nothing". Universe calculated from backwards will therefore have such "intelligently designed" artifact at the _beginning_, as sort of input parameter, so it have to find a mathematically plausible way going forward (which is backwards in time for us) how these artifacts were created. Intelligent life and physical laws supporting intelligent life might be _result_ of something strange at the function input. That means if you have function where random "state" is input and set of equations ("laws of physics") is output, as soon as you put something looking improbable at input, say set of large prime numbers, function might find it is easier to create universe with intelligent civilization, which created this prime numbers, then to create universe where laws of physics created such improbable outcome by chance.
  • Re:Thought (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 09, 2012 @06:35AM (#39939331)

    Indeed, the problem with reversing time is that you suddenly have to change physics to handle the fact that the time has already been used. I remember Einstein expressing the view that we get 3 dimensions of space which can be reused and one dimension of time which can't be reused. And physics generally works and the equations are written for that reality. If suddenly, you can reused time and particles can go back and potentially interfere with themselves, then a ton of work would have to be put into making the equations work.

  • Re:well, actually... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by pantaril ( 1624521 ) on Wednesday May 09, 2012 @07:55AM (#39939697)

    Isn't there a way on slashdot to block "funny" comments? Those years old "jokes" littering almost each science-related thread have no value at all for me.

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