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Biotech Medicine Science

Gut Bacteria Can Control Diabetes 271

Posted by samzenpus
from the with-a-little-help-from-my-little-friends dept.
Shipud writes "Insulin resistance is the harbinger of metabolic syndrome. Insulin resistance is when the body cannot use insulin effectively. As a result, blood sugar and fat levels rise. Therein lies the path to morbid obesity, diabetes, stroke, and heart problems. A group of Brazilian researchers have taken a strain of mice normally known to be immune to insulin resistance, and made them insulin resistant (pre-diabetic) by changing their gut bacteria. They then gave the mice antibiotics, and by changing their gut bacteria again, reversed the process, curing them of the disease. Their research shows just how influential the bacteria living in our gut can be on our health."
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Gut Bacteria Can Control Diabetes

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  • so (Score:2, Insightful)

    I think i'm missing something here. Obviously the cure for diabetes is giving people antibiotics so they reset their gut bacteria? I mean, i know i'm going out on a limb here trusting a slashdot editor approved summary submission but...

    • Re:so (Score:5, Insightful)

      by khallow (566160) on Tuesday January 10, 2012 @01:03PM (#38653386)
      Two problems. First, I imagine there are a variety of causes of diabetes. Changing gut bacteria need not help. Second, you need also to replace the gut bacteria with something better or the reset will just result in the old bacteria coming back.
      • Re:so (Score:4, Informative)

        by Mashiki (184564) <mashiki@NOspAM.gmail.com> on Tuesday January 10, 2012 @01:21PM (#38653600) Homepage

        There is, genetic being one of the big ones. Along with diet, age, obesity, thyroid, medication related, pregnancy, etc. And where it's genetic and it's childhood inflicted, a lot of diabetics still hold out for partial pancreas transplants or something else, otherwise it's live with it. It does work, but compatibility is the real pain. A lot of people though these days it's simply age + lifestyle. Then again, they've changed the definition of what diabetic is too. What was diabetic 10 or even 20 years ago, isn't what it is today. So a whole new broad range of people fall into it.

      • Re:so (Score:5, Informative)

        by dintech (998802) on Tuesday January 10, 2012 @01:34PM (#38653808)

        Actually, you can transplant human gut bacteria to treat disease. It's called Fecal Bacteriotherapy [wikipedia.org]. It's a procedure carried out under the supervision of a doctor where you put a donor's shit up your ass. Unappealing certainly, but at least it's not 2girls1cup style.

        • Re:so (Score:4, Informative)

          by dgatwood (11270) on Tuesday January 10, 2012 @01:46PM (#38654026) Journal

          There are over-the-counter Lactobacillus acidophilus tablets that contain cultured bacteria already. Why in the world would anyone do it the way you describe? I suppose there are other helpful bacteria in your gut, but that seems to be the most significant variety in terms of its effect on everything from serum cholesterol levels to lactose intolerance....

          • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

            by ShieldW0lf (601553)

            There are over-the-counter Lactobacillus acidophilus tablets that contain cultured bacteria already. Why in the world would anyone do it the way you describe? I suppose there are other helpful bacteria in your gut, but that seems to be the most significant variety in terms of its effect on everything from serum cholesterol levels to lactose intolerance....

            They're also useful if you want to make plastic out of potatoes.

            Interesting factoid: Humans are born with a "gut bacteria" backup solution. It's called your appendix. Very useful if you eat something harsh enough to kill your gut bacteria during a 12 week overland march when you're too far to replenish them in the traditional way by shaking hands with strangers and touching your lip.

            • by dgatwood (11270)

              Unfortunately, doctors are quick to remove your appendix upon infection instead of trying antibiotics first.

              • by batquux (323697)

                Because it can kill you very quickly if it explodes.

              • Appendicitis is caused by a blocked appendix, not one full of bacteria. And rupture leads to gut bacteria running loose in the abdomen, which is a Bad Thing.
            • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

              by crmarvin42 (652893)
              I'd love a source for that claim. I've never before heard of the appendix described as a gut microbiota reservoir. I've also never heard of someones gut going completely sterile because of a long march.

              As long as their is something to digest in your gut, their will be gut microbes. And considering that many of the gut microbes survive primarily on Host synthesized mucus carbohydrate or sloughed Host enterocytes, I'm tempted to call "Bull Shit!" on the entire premise you are suggesting.

              The appendix
          • Re:so (Score:4, Insightful)

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 10, 2012 @02:12PM (#38654460)

            The healthiest people have the widest range of bacterial flora, usually established as a child and turn into a life long symbiotic relationship. A tablet could never cover the full range of bacteria for an optimal flora.

          • by Lumpy (12016)

            The over the counter is for the rich. Here in the USA the doctor uses fecal matter and a pointy stick.

        • Re:so (Score:4, Informative)

          by wisty (1335733) on Tuesday January 10, 2012 @02:02PM (#38654300)

          Fun fact - Koalas eat eucalyptus (gum tree) leaves, which are pretty toxic to all other animals. They have a special bacteria in their gut which helps break the toxin down. Guess how the bacteria is passed on to the next generation?

    • by vlm (69642)

      I think i'm missing something here. Obviously the cure for diabetes is giving people antibiotics so they reset their gut bacteria?

      gut bacteria depend, in part, on what you eat. The easy way to change them is to flamethrower out your intestines with antibiotics and transplant a new selection, but the ratios can be influenced by food, which is no great surprise I guess. That would be a very interesting follow up paper.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Probably a bit more complicated than that. Bacteria tend to be quite specialized as far as their environment goes, to the point where you have different species of bacteria living in your armpit, the side of your arm, the outside of your elbow, and all of those are quite a bit different than the ones that live on your face. I'll go out on a limb and suppose that maybe different diets have an influence on the bacterial populations in your stomach and intestines (I've heard it suggested that the appendix migh

      • Re:so (Score:5, Insightful)

        by dgatwood (11270) on Tuesday January 10, 2012 @02:00PM (#38654286) Journal

        Perhaps in the future, you might be able to get treatments of beneficial stomach bacteria, maybe even in pill form, to help treat diabetes. I doubt this particular strain found in mice will work though, you would probably have to find a human analog or genetically engineer a bacterium more at home in the human digestive tract.

        You already can. http://www.wholehealth.com/health-articles/probiotics-may-have-role-in-and-diabetes-management [wholehealth.com].

        The natural medicine practitioners that so many folks on Slashdot seem to bash and ignore have been aware of the connection between L. acidophilus and a number of medical conditions for several years. It has just taken this long for the medical community to be sufficiently convinced that they were right through the use of double-blind studies.

        Acidophilus pills are available at pretty much every pharmacy and health food store (at least in the U.S.), from CVS and Walgreens to that weird place on the corner that smells kind of like incense, but not quite. I think if I had diabetes, I'd certainly be tempted to give it a shot. In the worst case, it doesn't help your particular form of diabetes, and you wasted a few dollars for a bottle.

        Consuming L. acidophilus is also known to reduce serum cholesterol, reduce lactose intolerance in many people (because it produces some of the enzymes that break down lactose), and reduce the incidence of diarrhea in many situations by crowding out the bad bacteria that cause it. Frankly, it's about as close as you can get to a miracle drug, at least when it comes to digestive health, and it's available over the counter for just a few bucks per bottle. And because each pill contains living bacteria that multiply on their own, you don't necessarily need to keep taking it, unlike drugs.

        • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

          by Anonymous Coward

          Several years back I picked up an infection which ended up being penicillin resistant. So they put me on a second non-penicillin based antibiotic. This back to back dose of antibiotics wiped out my gut bacteria and caused severe diarrhea. I had enough complications they even had to remove my appendix.

          Now, I take digestive enzymes and probiotics: Lactobacillus acidophilus LA5, Bifidobacterium lactis BB-12, Streptococcus thermophilus (STY-31) and Lactobacillus delbruekii subsp. delbrueckii (LLBY-27).

          When I

        • I tried it for IBS (Score:5, Insightful)

          by bigtrike (904535) on Tuesday January 10, 2012 @02:51PM (#38654976)

          Like almost all of the "natural" remedies, it didn't work at all. I've heard the same story from 3 other people. I wouldn't be surprised if the only people that reported it to work weren't just experiencing the placebo effect. Double blind studies seem to confirm that it doesn't help at all for cholesterol: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15841092 [nih.gov]

          My prescription medicine for IBS started out as a "natural" medicine made from a plant, except that it works and is now western medicine instead of alternative medicine.

          If you have diabetes, you should consult your doctor before you go experimenting with natural remedies. Some of them, like St. John's Wort, can interfere with the action of the medication that's actually doing something. "Natural" substances aren't inherently safe.

        • by ShawnDoc (572959)
          You also forgot to mention the painful gas and bloating that it causes.
        • by Pope (17780)

          Natural medicine practitioners have a very high woo-woo to fact ratio, which is why double-blind tests are needed in the first place. The stuff that works is medicine, no superfluous adjective needed.

        • The medical community has known about prebiotics and probiotics as a means of changing micrbiota populations for exactly as long as the natural medicine practitioners. The difference is that medical community does not over sell the value as a means of treating disease.

          And you are only partially right about not needing to continue taking it. The point of a prebiotic like an acidophilus pill, is that it increases the population above what was present. The initially low population could be an aberration,
        • The natural medicine practitioners that so many folks on Slashdot seem to bash and ignore...

          It's not just here, Scientific American is another great place to find religious fanatics who worship at the altar of the double-blind placebo controlled study.

          It's a tool - it can be used and misused like anything else. It's often so damned expensive to do a proper scientific study that the community simply freezes out ideas they find unappealing by not funding "proper" study of them.

    • Re:so (Score:5, Informative)

      by Attila Dimedici (1036002) on Tuesday January 10, 2012 @01:37PM (#38653860)
      No, what they discovered is actually a flaw in existing research into insulin resistance. To summarize the linked article: There is a strain of mice that did not develop insulin resistance from any of the usual procedures used to induce insulin resistance in mice. This particular group of researchers noticed that these diabetes resistant mice were typically housed in isolation from normal mouse micro-organisms. These researchers housed a group of these mice in "conventional facilities" (as opposed to "germ-free" facilities, which was normal) where they were exposed to various bacteria. These mice then developed insulin resistance. When the gut bacteria from these mice were transplanted into other mice, those mice, also, developed the symptoms of insulin resistance. Finally, if these mice were given broad spectrum antibiotics (presumably killing off the microbiota that had developed in their guts) they lost their insulin resistance.
      In summation, what they discovered is that the micro-organisms that live in your intestines play a role in whether or not you develop Type 2 diabetes.
      • by sjames (1099)

        Since killing them again reversed the condition, they could be said to be the cause of some cases rather than just a trigger for developing the condition.

        I wonder if this will end up as another case like H. Pylori where we find that a a bunch of people have been long subjected to only moderately helpful treatments, needless special diets, a lot of suffering, and a considerable amount of victim blaming over what was actually just a chronic infection.

    • Re:so (Score:4, Informative)

      by b4dc0d3r (1268512) on Tuesday January 10, 2012 @01:37PM (#38653862)

      Got it backwards. Getting the right bacteria can apparently cure diabetes, or at least remove the symptoms. Killing all the bacteria with an antibiotic won't magically introduce the correct bacteria. (I retained the plural because it's not clear if there is just one strain, or if they have to work together with others)

      There is no 'reset' with bacteria, only killing some or nearly all and hoping you get the right replacements. You have to put the right ones in there.

    • by scubamage (727538)
      A far better method would be to ensure that they ingest a number of foods which contain live probiotics. And get people to stop talking about goddamned cleanses which throw off the balance of intestinal flora.
    • by sjames (1099)

      A potential cure for SOME forms of diabetes might be antibiotic treatments and inoculation with a better bacterial culture.

  • Like all things in life, the solution to this problem can be found through eating (beneficial gut bacteria)

  • by sgt scrub (869860) <saintium.yahoo@com> on Tuesday January 10, 2012 @01:06PM (#38653420)

    Insert spam for gut bacteria pills that cure diabetes here.

    • No joke. There are existing therapies where individuals who have seriously disrupted gut bacteria colonies basically take a poop pill. The idea is that you re-seed the GI track with the desirable flora in order to establish a healthy and balanced community. Of course the source of the donated flora is something that you might not want to dwell on too long.

      Of course other animals do this all the time voluntarily.

      • by Pope (17780)

        Not a pill, a transplant from a close family member, since their genetics will more closely match yours. Not much to dwell on, really; if it'll save your life, you do it.

  • by wisebabo (638845) on Tuesday January 10, 2012 @01:16PM (#38653534) Journal

    As a pre-diabetic myself I'm wondering if this will need to be FDA approved?

    I mean aren't active yeast cultures okay in non-FDA approved yogurt? Since these are (I presume) non-pathogenic bacteria, couldn't they also be made available over the counter in pill form (packaged as dried spores?).

    I guess you'd still need a prescription for the anti-biotics to clear out the existing flora in your gut though.

    • by drinkypoo (153816)

      As a pre-diabetic myself I'm wondering if this will need to be FDA approved?

      I mean aren't active yeast cultures okay in non-FDA approved yogurt?

      You're witnessing the beginning of the end. Ordinary foods are starting to be required not to make health claims even when supported by science. Meanwhile if you say your milk doesn't contain rBGH they want you to print lies about how the government can't tell the difference between BGH and non-BGH milk, which has been conclusively proven false in a federal court.

  • by kanweg (771128) on Tuesday January 10, 2012 @01:21PM (#38653592)
    • That sounds just like it, but with lazy scientists who didn't want to identify the specific bacteria.

  • by Wonko the Sane (25252) * on Tuesday January 10, 2012 @01:21PM (#38653594) Journal
    Type II diabetes and metabolic syndrome are so easy to prevent by not eating the wrong kinds of foods that it's more accurate to refer to those conditions as lifestyle choices rather than diseases.
    • by nanospook (521118) on Tuesday January 10, 2012 @01:36PM (#38653840)
      What came first? The chicken or the egg? You see it as lifestyle choices but may not realize that the life style is being impacted metabolically behind the scenes. A person may act like a slug because they don't have energy. Its a cycle and it's hard to change. I'm a diabetic. But I exercise and eat fairly well. But when I was younger all I did was crave sugar constantly. 2/3's of my family tree going back 3 generations is diabetic. I don't think it's quite so cut and dry. To play devil's advocate, yes eating good and exercising will help tons! But it just doesn't always change the WHY of it happening.
      • by Wonko the Sane (25252) * on Tuesday January 10, 2012 @01:46PM (#38654020) Journal
        Part of the problem is that so many people have been taught that "eating well" means avoiding saturated fat and eating lots of grains and vegetable oil, despite the evidence that such a diet has the exact opposite effect of what is claimed. Once you figure out that eating well means almost the complete opposite of what the government-sponsored experts have been telling us for the last 30 years it becomes very easy to reverse the process.
        • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

          by Anonymous Coward

          While eating less saturated fat is a good step it is not a solution and eating lots of any oil is bad, and not a serious issue unless you have high cholesterol(which can also be controlled with exercise). Eating whole grain bread and other goods as a substitute for white-bread and processed carbohydrates does spread out the sugar release and help to control hunger pangs and chocolate cravings, but you are supposed to swap them in as a substitute not eat "lots" because they are healthy which is counter-prod

          • by Wonko the Sane (25252) * on Tuesday January 10, 2012 @02:25PM (#38654628) Journal
            I lost 50 lbs by eliminating sugar, starches and grains (and byproducts) and replacing those with saturated fats, green vegetables and meat without even bothering to think about calories and without spending nearly every waking moment exercising. The primal/paleo diets work for a lot of people, far more than are able to make a low-calorie, low-fat diet work for any substantial period of time.
          • by soleblaze (628864)
            whole grain bread generally has about the same glycemic index as white bread. (It depends on how the bread is prepared, but the standard whole grain bread you see on the shelf is within 5 points of white bread.) Generally this is ~70 for whole grain and ~73 for white bread (Compared to table sugar, which is ~65). Overall your blood sugar doesn't act any different if you eat white bread vs if you eat whole grain bread. Either way it still spikes about the same (certain factors affect how high) then dives.
          • by soleblaze (628864)
            holy wall of text batman. Reposting this.

            whole grain bread generally has about the same glycemic index as white bread. (It depends on how the bread is prepared, but the standard whole grain bread you see on the shelf is within 5 points of white bread.) Generally this is ~70 for whole grain and ~73 for white bread (Compared to table sugar, which is ~65).

            One of the more interesting things I see regarding regular diet books vs paleo/primal diet books is the use of scientific studies to back up their adv
    • by Belial6 (794905)
      Unfortunately, the foods that are standard recommendation for 'healthy' eating are exactly the foods that many people should not be eating, and many of the foods that they are told to avoid are the ones they should be eating.

      Of course the myth that weight gain is all about eating and exercise is both ridiculous and obvious in being ridiculous. Look at these people that are 350-400 pounds. Could you get to that weight if you tried? I doubt it. I know that if I put an effort into it, I MIGHT be able t
      • by Wonko the Sane (25252) * on Tuesday January 10, 2012 @02:00PM (#38654272) Journal

        Conversely, I could also never reach 150 lbs without resorting to amputation. There is simply a range that my body is genetically capable of achieving. The same applies to everyone else.

        I've seen and experienced for myself far too many success stories with low carb/primal eating to take claims like that at face value. My personal experience corresponds to Mark Sisson's claim that diet is 80% of what determines your body composition.

        • by Belial6 (794905)
          I eat a low carb diet. Lower than most. My body reacts immediately to any sugar that I eat. If I eat pizza, I will literally put on 2 pounds by the next day. I fully acknowledge that diet plays a part in your weight. That doesn't change the fact that your genetics will determine uppper/lower weight boundaries, what kinds of food will give you the best results, as well as how much food your body needs on a daily basis.

          Of course, the part that is determined by environment gets screwed up because peopl
          • That doesn't change the fact that your genetics will determine uppper/lower weight boundaries, what kinds of food will give you the best results, as well as how much food your body needs on a daily basis.

            Sure there's variations but the basic role of insulin in signaling fat cells to start storing sugars in and leptin in appetite regulation don't vary a whole lot for most of the population.

            My experience with genetics is that I have a family history of obesity, diabetes and thyroid problems from both parents

      • by Pope (17780)

        Look at these people that are 350-400 pounds. Could you get to that weight if you tried? I doubt it. I know that if I put an effort into it, I MIGHT be able to reach 300 pounds. There is no way that I could reach 400, even with effort. Conversely, I could also never reach 150 lbs without resorting to amputation. There is simply a range that my body is genetically capable of achieving. The same applies to everyone else.

        Not with attitude.

    • (BTW: Buidling your house inside out is hardly a qualification.)

      But, hey, since it's so easy you should get a grant for your ideas and make billions (yes with a B).

      You could show all these dummies in the several buildings around where I'm sitting (major university biomedical research departments) how easy it all is.

      And to think, they had to get PhDs and work for decades in biochemical and medical research. The fools.

      You just have to do is put everyone in a monitored and enforced lifestyle like lab rats are.

      • But, hey, since it's so easy you should get a grant for your ideas and make billions (yes with a B). You could show all these dummies in the several buildings around where I'm sitting (major university biomedical research departments) how easy it all is. And to think, they had to get PhDs and work for decades in biochemical and medical research. The fools.

        Those grants are the reason for the bad advice in the first place. Government (and government-funded) nutritional advice is slanted to favor the special

        • by Hartree (191324)

          Ah yes. Just like the Atkins diet "works". Or the grapefruit diet. So simple.

          And that all the researchers have been so wrong. We just have to listen to you and a website and be enlightened.

          Here's a clue. Just about any reduced calorie diet "will work" and reduce weight related health effects provided it's maintainable.

          Therein lies the rub. For whatever reason, many people in societies where scarcity isn't so much of a problem have trouble maintaining it. You can say it's due to lack of will, or a plot by th

          • If you were interesting in the truth you'd actually examine the site and discover that he does in fact cite actual controlled trials and references known facts about endocrinology to arrive at his conclusions. Then if you actually had any facts to refute him with you'd present those instead of ad-hominem attacks.
    • Type II diabetes and metabolic syndrome are so easy to prevent by not eating the wrong kinds of foods that it's more accurate to refer to those conditions as lifestyle choices rather than diseases.

      Now if you told us what in your opinion the "wrong" kinds of food are. As an example, take this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonder_Bread [wikipedia.org] which sounds very healthy, but is just about the worst stuff you can put into your body.

  • by pebbert (624675) on Tuesday January 10, 2012 @01:22PM (#38653614)
    Here is a story of a woman who lost all her gut bacteria and almost died because she couldn't digest her food. They injected some of her husbands and cured her almost instantly. http://www.technologyreview.com/biomedicine/26178/ [technologyreview.com]
  • While mammals have many things in common the gut fauna of humans is different of mice's. They were immune to diabetes to begin with, so I think they are not a good model at all for these studies. Sure, the researchers found a way to give them diabetes, but that doesn't mean that human diabetes has the same cause.

  • by wrencherd (865833) on Tuesday January 10, 2012 @01:23PM (#38653644)
    Whenever I read something like this (from TFA):

    Think about it: all the McCrap you can eat, yet your blood sugar level remains normal (although you still grow fat).

    I think about how closely the description of "McCrap" and HFCS resemble the grain that starved the Tribbles to death on Star Trek.

  • Type II Diabetes (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 10, 2012 @01:27PM (#38653694)

    It's a common oversight in reporting about Diabetes not to recognize that there are two separate diseases with the same name. Type I ("One") Diabetes, also called Juvenile Diabetes, is caused largely by genetics and some unknown environmental factors. It is an auto-immune disease in which the immune system attacks the pancreas, causing the body to produce no more insulin. It's the type that requires insulin injections multiple times per day as well as constant monitoring.

    Type II ("Two", Adult) Diabetes is caused by genetics in combination with unhealthy lifestyle habits such as unhealthy diets. It's triggered when the body forms a resistance to insulin, normally due to its high concentration in the body resulting from unhealthy eating. It can often be managed by improving diet and/or oral medication, though in some cases it requires insulin injections.

    Both diseases result in high blood sugars, and thus the same symptoms, which is why they share a name.

    As a Type I Diabetic, it's frustrating when people assume I had an unhealthy childhood or poor eating habits as a young adult due to shoddy reporting that conflates the two diseases due to their horrible naming. I remember there being some call to rename one of the diseases to help avoid this confusion. But I can't seem to find a reference on the Wikipedia articles.

    When discussing Diabetes in the future, please be careful to specify which type you are referring to as they are really separate diseases.

    • You are correct that there are two different types of diabetes but they may not be as different as you think. I've read that there is now some suspicion that type II is also caused by an immune system reaction and Type II patients can also require insulin injections.

      The urge to make type II all about "unhealthy lifestyle habits" should be resisted. Type II can occur without an unhealthy diet and without a large amount of visible fat. My father developed Type II in his late 50's and was less than 20lbs over

  • by flibbidyfloo (451053) on Tuesday January 10, 2012 @01:47PM (#38654048)

    I've read about similar results from fecal transplants to replace colon flora. If I understand it correctly, there are actually doctors that will "reset" your colon flora by giving you a high dose of antibiotics and then basically stick someone else's poop up your butt. I'm sure it's more scientific than that, but it supposedly repopulates your colon with different flora and the people that have undergone the procedure swear it made them lose weight or recover from other problems, etc.

    Wired wrote about it too, but I haven't read that specific article yet: http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/12/fecal-transplants-work/ [wired.com]

    • by BryanL (93656)

      Oh if it were only inserted through the rectum. The stories I have read have been people having fecal matter inserted through a tube down the throat. It appears to be an effective treatment though.

  • CBC TV in Canada aired a show focusing on Autism and links to gut bacteria. http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/Shows/The_Nature_of_Things [www.cbc.ca] The episode is titled The Autism Enigma.

    Well worth watching.

    Considering that the bacteria in our bodies outnumber our own cells (numerically) it should not be a surprise that when they get messed with we get messed up.

  • Eventually, pharmacology will focus on the use of indigenous microorganisms for treatment of most human ailments. It may not seem obvious now, but once the patents start churning out, it will become as plain as the snot-filled, puss-covered nose on your face.
    • by geekoid (135745)

      " use of indigenous microorganisms for treatment of most human ailments."
      complete nonsense.
      IN some cases? maybe. But it will be a few, at best. Stop looking for a silver bullet.

  • conditions like ulcerative colitis, I don't think this is due to the accidental depletion of normal GI flora, such that it could be remedied by re-application. It is due to life-style issues which are non-conducive to those organisms. Just because we are willing to submit ourselves to some of the things we do, doesn't mean that certain critical passengers will be willing to. We need to pursue critical life-sustaining activities and quality rather than so-often depending in medical miracles, which are oft
  • does out number you. Seriously.

    I almost believe we evolved to carry bacteria around~

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