Russian Scientist Discovers Giant Arctic Methane Plumes 236
thomst writes "Russian scientist Igor Semiletov of the International Arctic Research Centre at the University of Alaska Fairbanks revealed in an interview with The Independent that his team discovered 'powerful and impressive seeping structures (of Methane gas) more than 1,000 metres in diameter' during their survey of the Arctic Ocean earlier this year. 'I was most impressed by the sheer scale and the high density of the plumes. Over a relatively small area we found more than 100, but over a wider area there should be thousands of them,' Semiletov told The Independent's Steve Connor. This finding is important because methane is estimated to be 20 times as potent as carbon dioxide as a greenhouse gas, and it could indicate that global warming is about to accelerate dramatically."
Methane emissions not tied to modern warming (Score:5, Informative)
In this case it seems that most of the methane is locked up far deeper than will be affected by rising temperatures for the foreseeable future.
http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2011/2011EO490014.shtml [agu.org]
So, not good, but maybe not as bad as appears at first blush, thankfully...
Rgds
Damon
Re:Methane emissions not tied to modern warming (Score:4, Informative)
Hopefully they're right. This older review [realclimate.org] from Real Climate comes to the same conclusion.
But we'll know for sure one way or another in a couple of years, by watching the atmospheric methane concentrations
.
Oh great (Score:4, Informative)
Mega-giant civilization destroying hurricanes next. We're doomed.
Re:Why do scientists make these statements? (Score:2, Informative)
Natural sources of methane include wetlands, gas hydrates, permafrost, termites, oceans, freshwater bodies, non-wetland soils, and other sources such as wildfires.
You display your ignorance for the public to see....I'd research before making stupid comments.
Re:Why do scientists make these statements? (Score:5, Informative)
with our current high period being an extended one
"Extended"? How about "off the charts"? The current ch4 concentration is 1745 ppbv, which is almost twice the peak on that chart.
and yes their are higher peeks
No, there hasn't been. This planet has not seen this much CO2 or methane in the past 400,000 years according to that graph.
Re:The next question (Score:1, Informative)
Methane in the atmosphere only lasts for between 20 and thirty years. SO again its not as bad as thought.
nature.com/thirtyyearmethane
Re:Why do scientists make these statements? (Score:4, Informative)
What graph are you looking at? Cause the graph I'm looking at shows both CO2 levels and CH4 levels higher at about 125kya and 325kya.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vostok_420ky_4curves_insolation.jpg
So this planet HAS seen this much or more CO2 and methane in the past 400,000 years according to that graph.
Re:Why do scientists make these statements? (Score:4, Informative)
That chart is too coarse-grained, in the time dimension to show the recent very sharp peak. The CH4 peaks (including the "present" one) on that chart
are at about 0.7 ppm and the current level is about 1.7. Similarly, the CO2 peaks are at about 280 ppm and the current level is around 385.
Re:Why do scientists make these statements? (Score:5, Informative)
ka ching! (Score:4, Informative)
This is a gold mine of resources. There are a lot of great things going on with methane studies, from fuel cells to low energy conversion methods.
Sen and postdoctoral associate Minren Lin announced a breakthrough. By dissolving a powder of rhodium chloride in water, along with carbon monoxide and oxygen, they had produced acetic acid from methane directly. The reaction took place at a relatively low temperature (100 degrees centigrade), required little energy, and left no environmentally harmful solvents to throw away. http://www.rps.psu.edu/sep98/methane.html [psu.edu]
Colleagues of ours created a highly porous carbon-nitrogen polymer, which we realised had very similar structural motifs to the Periana catalyst,' Schüth says, 'so we wondered if we could incorporate platinum into the structure.
If the mixture is then pressurised in an autoclave with methane, the methane is consumed and methanol formed at conversion rates comparable to Periana-based systems but with the solid catalyst easily recoverable at the end of the reaction. http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/News/2009/August/10080902.asp [rsc.org]
Re:The next question (Score:5, Informative)
That link doesn't exist.
Methane has an atmospheric lifetime of about 12 years. However it is MUCH more effective at trapping heat than carbon dioxide, so over a 20 year period a ton of methane will cause the same amount of global warming as 72 tons of carbon dioxide. Consider that a ton of methane, burned, would produce about 3.7 tons of carbon dioxide, burning it is a valid approach to mitigating the impact on our climate.
Setting the plumes on fire is a big silly, though. We should trap the gas and use it to displace petroleum fuels.
=Smidge=
Re:Why do scientists make these statements? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:The next question (Score:5, Informative)
Great plan! We have large quantities of a gas that causes global warming. So then you burn it an end up huge amounts of extra warm and a gas that causes a bit less warming.
methane absorbs 20 times as much IR as the water and CO2 that would result from burning it, so its probably a net win to burn it.
Re:Why do scientists make these statements? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Why do scientists make these statements? (Score:5, Informative)
""The concentration of atmospheric methane increased unto three times in the past two centuries from 0.7 parts per million to 1.7ppm, and in the Arctic to 1.9ppm. That's a huge increase, between two and three times,"
I'm OK with her statement, until this:
"...and this has never happened in the history of the planet," she added.
So there's data for the last 4+ BILLION years with 10-50 year precision so that over a 100-200 year timespan, she can measure the slope of the line (rate in rise over the run of time) precisely enough to say that the slope of the line over the last 200 years is steeper than it has been in any other 200 year period in the last 4 billion years? Sorry, but I find that hard to believe.
I suspect she's talking about it having never previously happened in a span of just a couple of centuries.
A dramatic increase in atmospheric methane - triggered by a dramatic rise in atmospheric carbon dioxide? Now that's definitely happened before - at the end of the Permian Period. And it helped cause the Permian/Triassic extinction event [wikipedia.org], the largest species die-off since the Oxygen Catastrophe.
Re:Methane emissions not tied to modern warming (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Methane emissions not tied to modern warming (Score:5, Informative)
Temperate methane clathrates are deeper and stabilized by pressure in warmer water. The Arctic clathrates, as mentioned in this article, exist over huge land areas and were stabilized by temperature under permafrost and there is also a lot in the shallow of the arctic, also cold stabilized. Both the water based and tundra based clathrates are being released now. This is very ominous. Nothing we can do will prevent this - not even a total cessation of coal/oil/gas combustion - and we know how likely that is!
Part of the methane from millions of years of vegetative rotting on tundra and shallow seas was trapped in these clathrates. Large areas of tundra are also emitting methane the same way.
dig deeper here http://tinyurl.com/d64n5zb [tinyurl.com]
Bill
Re:Methane emissions not tied to modern warming (Score:5, Informative)
methane is a more potent ghg, but only really sticks around in the upper atm for 25 to 125 years before it breaks down to co2+h2o. co2 sticks around until the next epoch of mass vegetation.
cumulatively (if you integrate it wrt dt), co2 is still much worse, and methane is just delayed co2.
and yes, it is typically too diffuse to economically mine. but people are certainly willing to try.
the melting pt is around 4C, if the oceans at 1000m get up to that we hit the ghg positive feedback loop doomsday scenario.
fun times.
in this case I wonder if volcanic activity might be warming the earth below a patch.
Re:Methane emissions not tied to modern warming (Score:5, Informative)
That sounds fascinating. Please name the event it so we can google it.
Ok, it took me about 3 seconds on Google to find this page [usgs.gov] on the USGS website:
At the end of the last Ice Age, a finger of the Cordilleran ice sheet crept southward into the Idaho panhandle, forming a large ice dam that blocked the mouth of the Clark Fork River, creating a massive lake 2000 feet deep and containing more than 500 cubic miles of water. Glacial Lake Missoula stretched eastward for some 200 miles and contained more water than Lake Erie and Lake Ontario combined. When the highest of these ice dams failed, lake water burst through, shooting out at a rate 10 times the combined flow of all the rivers of the world.
This towering mass of water and ice literally shook the ground as it thundered toward the Pacific Ocean, stripping away hundreds of feet of soil and cutting deep canyons -- "coulees" -- into the underlying bedrock. With flood speeds approaching 65 miles per hour, the lake would have drained in as little as 48 hours.
Re:Methane emissions not tied to modern warming (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Methane emissions not tied to modern warming (Score:4, Informative)
I watched a show where there was a lake in the mountains of Africa somewhere that was killing people. Vegetation fell in, sank to the bottom and decomposed. The lake was so deep that the resulting C02 stayed dissolved due to the pressure. But occasionally, the amount of C02 would get so high that it would start to bubble out of solution. When this happened, the bubbles would decrease the density of water above, allowing more C02 to bubble out. The result was a positive feedback mechanism that resulted in a cloud of C02 that would roll down the hill and kill entire villages.
The scientist's solution was to sink a pipe into the lake from a raft, then pump water out of the pipe. Once enough of the water was out of the pipe, there wasn't enough pressure to keep the C02 dissolved *in the pipe*. The water would spew out of the pipe like a warm Coca-Cola, and new C02 laden water would take its place at the bottom. With no energy input, they were able to slowly bleed off the C02 in a way that would not harm every animal around the lake.
The same technique could be used to "mine" this methane.