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Math The Almighty Buck Science

Researchers Create a Statistical Guide To Gambling 185

New submitter yukiloo writes "An early Christmas treat for the ordinary Joe who is stuck with a Christmas list that he cannot afford and is running out of time comes from two mathematicians (Evangelos Georgiadis, MIT, and Doron Zeilberger, Rutgers) and a computer scientist (Shalosh B. Ekhad). In their paper 'How to gamble if you're in a hurry,' they present algorithmic strategies and reclaim the world of gambling, which they say has up till recently flourished on the continuous Kolmogorov paradigm by some sugary discrete code that could make us hopefully richer, if not wiser. It's interesting since their work applies an advanced version of what seems to be the Kelly criterion."
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Researchers Create a Statistical Guide To Gambling

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  • by questioner ( 147810 ) on Sunday December 11, 2011 @04:50PM (#38337546)

    Half this submission makes no sense, grammatically or otherwise.

  • Well.... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by jd ( 1658 ) <imipak@yahoGINSBERGo.com minus poet> on Sunday December 11, 2011 @04:51PM (#38337556) Homepage Journal

    The news story posted on Slashdot not that long ago on a casino successfully suing a gambler of all his winnings because the machine's system for preventing you from winning wasn't working tells me that the only paradigm in use is "give us your money... or else!"

  • Conclusions (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 11, 2011 @04:56PM (#38337584)

    The three authors completely agree on the mathematics, but they have somewhat different views about the
    significance of this project. Here they are.

    Evangelos Georgiadis’ Conclusion
    We provided a playful yet algorithmic glimpse to a field that has up till recently flourished on the Kolmogorov,
    measure-theoretic paradigm [as evidenced by the work of Dubins and Savage [4] (see [7] for more recent
    developments]. The advent and omnipresence of computers, however, ushered an era of symbol crunching
    and number crunching, where a few lines of code can give rise to powerful algorithms. And it is the ouput
    of algorithms that usually provides insight (and inspiration) for conjectures and theorems. Those, in turn,
    can then be proven in their respective measure-theoretic settings. Additionally, a computational approach
    lends itself easily to more complex scenarios that would otherwise be considered pathological phenomena
    (and would be fiendishly time-consuming to prove – even for immortals like Kolmogorov and von Neumann).

    Doron Zeilberger’s Conclusion
    Traditional mathematicians like Dubins and Savage use traditional proof-based mathematics, and also work
    in the framework of continuous probability theory using the pernicious Kolmogorov, measure-theoretic, par-
    adigm. This approach was fine when we didn’t have computers, but we can do so much more with both
    symbol-crunching and number-crunching, in addition to naive simulation, and develop algorithms and write
    software, that ultimately is a much more useful (and rewarding) activity than “proving” yet-another-theorem
    in an artificial and fictional continuous, measure-theoretic, world, that is furthermore utterly boring.

    Shalosh B. Ekhad’s Conclusion
    These humans, they are so emotional! That’s why they never went very far.

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Sunday December 11, 2011 @05:05PM (#38337642)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Note about Ekhad (Score:5, Interesting)

    by werdnam ( 1008591 ) on Sunday December 11, 2011 @05:08PM (#38337668)
    I'm not sure if the original submitter had his tongue in cheek by describing the co-author Ekhad as a "computer scientist." Just in case he didn't, note that Shalosh B. Ekhad is actually Zeilberger's computer. Since most of Zeilberger's research depends heavily on computations, and (I think) as a nod to some of his philosophical positions, Zeilberger usually lists his computer as a coauthor on his papers. So I guess Ekhad is a computer scientist, but not quite in the way we usually mean. :)
  • Shalosh B. Ekhad (Score:5, Interesting)

    by slasho81 ( 455509 ) on Sunday December 11, 2011 @05:30PM (#38337838)
    Shalosh B. Ekhad is not a person. From Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]:

    Zeilberger is known for crediting his computer "Shalosh B. Ekhad" as a co-author ("Shalosh" and "Ekhad" mean "Three" and "One" in Hebrew respectively, referring to the AT&T 3B1 model).

  • Re:Well.... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by TheLink ( 130905 ) on Sunday December 11, 2011 @05:54PM (#38337994) Journal

    The smart ones go work in the fancy financial industry.

    That's the way to legally cheat, consistently make a profit, and not have your bones broken.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/24/business/24trading.html?_r=1 [nytimes.com]
    http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2009/07/24/business/0724-webBIZ-trading.ready.html [nytimes.com]

    And the betting limits are really high.

  • Re:Conclusion (Score:5, Interesting)

    by TrekkieGod ( 627867 ) on Sunday December 11, 2011 @07:22PM (#38338428) Homepage Journal

    You don't have to be bad at math to play the lottery. A buck for a ticket is a small price to pay for the entertainment you get when the numbers come up. Especially if your friends play, it can be a social event when the numbers are announced.

    Well, honestly, you play correctly. If you're not actually expecting to win, but you find some entertainment in sitting there with your friends waiting for the numbers to come up, more power to you. I don't think you represent the majority, though. I think most of the people playing the lottery are people who spend money that they could actually use for more practical things, in the hope of moving up from poverty. I don't have numbers to back this feeling up, but I do see those local news stories every time the jackpot goes up into the $200 million range with poor schmoes buying hundreds of dollars worth of tickets. Congratulations, dude: you just increased your odds of winning from nearly impossible to still nearly impossible.

    The above is not an argument against the lottery, btw. I don't think the government should be in the business of protecting people from their own bad decisions. It is, however, an argument for better public education. People would make less bad decisions if they had the tools to analyze a situation better.

  • Re:Conclusion (Score:4, Interesting)

    by garyebickford ( 222422 ) <gar37bic@IIIgmail.com minus threevowels> on Sunday December 11, 2011 @07:27PM (#38338464)

    Reminds me of a successful scam I read about, from back in the late 1950s or thereabouts. They put an ad in the classifieds of many papers, saying simply "Send your dollars to GEB, PO BOX 123". Lots of people thought this was some charity and sent money. The Postal Inspectors (US Postal Service police) came after the guy, charging him with mail fraud. His successful defense was that he made no promises, only asked people for money.

    AFAIK this particular trick was quashed in the future, as newspapers refused to take ads like that.

  • by yukiloo ( 2527940 ) on Sunday December 11, 2011 @10:27PM (#38339520)
    After having read the paper it becomes evident that both authors have a liking for analyzing the problem in a discrete light. My degree is in mathematics, number theory so I am slightly biased myself. For that matter, I got intrigued by the fact that when dealing with the continuous version of gambling one does deal with unrealistic assumptions. One of which is ... money is indefinitely divisible which of course this is a bonkers assumption. Now assuming money has finite integral values, the analysis becomes much more difficult, particularly in the light of edge effects. So, that is why the authors seem to resort to heavy computer simulation.
  • by carnivore302 ( 708545 ) on Monday December 12, 2011 @04:01AM (#38340986) Journal

    I find anything related to the Kelly Criterion interesting. It made me a rich guy :-)

    To clarify, try this experiment: sit down with a group of friends and pretend you all have 100 dollars. Ask everybody what their stake will be for the following game: you throw a coin and if it ends up heads, everybody gets 1.5 times his stake, plus the initial stake returned. Tails means the stake is lost. First of all: this game has a positive expectancy so you should play. But the question of how much you should bet is an interesting one. It is easy to see why: bet nothing and you will not profit. Bet everything and sooner or later you will be wiped out. Try the game with a couple of friends who haven't heard of Kelly and chances are everybody has lost his stake in a couple of rounds.

      Once you find a profitable strategy that works, and scales to large large amounts, Kelly is really useful to know.

    Mark

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