Wealthy Americans Turning To Europe For Medical Treatment 519
theodp writes "Fox Sports' Jay Glazer reports that prior to undergoing recent neck surgery, Indianapolis Colts quarterback Peyton Manning flew to Europe for stem-cell therapy that's used overseas but not yet in the United States. Earlier this year, Fortune reported that prior to his liver transplant, Apple CEO Steve Jobs took an unpublicized flight to Switzerland to undergo an unusual radiological treatment which was not available in the U.S. Some Americans are willing to go abroad to seek what they can't find at home in hopes of improving — or saving — their lives, and health providers are eager to respond. 'It moves fast, this industry,' said the director of Medical Tours International in 2007. 'They think, 'Look at all these sick, rich patients.''"
dodging anti-science? (Score:2, Insightful)
Could this have anything to do with dodging anti-science policies of the American far right?
religion (Score:4, Insightful)
maybe because most other countries in the modern world don't have a large rabidly religious and anti-science segment of their populations.
Re:dodging anti-science? (Score:2, Insightful)
I used to be cool with Jesus....then I found out he hated science. :/
More Like Patients Dodging Federal Regulation (Score:4, Insightful)
Could this have anything to do with dodging anti-science policies of the American far right?
I know it's fun to jump on the scientifically inept politicians but I might also cite general concern for what a stem cell treatment entails [slashdot.org]. Several medical professionals have explained to me that just randomly injecting stem cells into your body has unknown effects depending on the stem cells and the localization of the injection. This causes a variance of anything from magically cured to cancer-like growths. Stem cells aren't very well understood yet ... and some of that is to blame on halting embryonic stem cell research but even the Republicans are okay with non-embryonic stem cells [slashdot.org]. As we develop more ways to get stem cells, their hobbling of the US medical field becomes moot (assuming adult stem cells are just as awesome as embryonic stem cells -- something I don't know).
... are you cured yet? Oh, you died? Well, send in the next medical tourist!" Why doesn't the article explain what "procedure" or "treatment" Tonya Winchester was administered in Russia?
So, yeah, you know the FDA and other regulators are pretty slow moving to approve all this in the United States until that becomes more science than "Let's see, you take the syringe here and inject this shit there and
Health industry of health system ? (Score:5, Insightful)
Euros travel to America, too, for treatment. (Score:5, Insightful)
So what's the point of this?
Some treatments are simply more available in certain countries.
No, I'm not defending America's approach to healthcare, but I've seen the same bloody argument used from the other side for all the America-bound medical tourism from rich Canadians and Euros, and in the end it means absolutely nothing. Rich people travel a lot. Rich people min/max their medicine.
Christ versus Christians (Score:5, Insightful)
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." - Mohandas Gandhi
Jesus Himself does in many ways seem like a positive example; people following the obnoxious behavior of the Old Testament God seems to be the issue IMHO. Christians not partaking of such behavior is good, but in some ways they seem to be glossing over that issue in the Book.
Re:dodging anti-science? (Score:4, Insightful)
that are safely available in other countries.
To be fair, stem cell treatments aren't quite known to be safe (or effective) yet.
There is a lot of promise there, but as I understand it, many of them don't seem particularly effective yet and the safety is uncertain.
The FDA is very conservative -- that much is clear. Perhaps *too* conservative, especially in the case of patients who are dying -- but there's a good reason for them to be conservative.
Oh no... (Score:3, Insightful)
This isn't going to be pretty when the "We're Number One!" and "USA! USA! USA!" crowd gets here.
Re:More Like Patients Dodging Federal Regulation (Score:5, Insightful)
This causes a variance of anything from magically cured to cancer-like growths.
There is absolutely no danger in using stem cell to treat a fatal disease. So what if your stem cell injection may cause cancer in 2 years if your current disease will cause death in 6 months? Patients who are close to death should be allowed to opt into almost any treatment that has a plausible chance of success (unlike therapies which are proven frauds, like homeopathy, etc.)
Re:More Like Patients Dodging Federal Regulation (Score:5, Insightful)
Turns out that the problem with what you've pointed out, isn't necessarily stem cell treatments in general, but more so, those people were forced to go to Thailand. Why Thailand? Because it's also doing the treatments, but they're cheaper. This article is about the rich people, going to rich progressive countries, with well trained, and well staffed hospitals, and getting the kind of treatments that the scientifically inept politicians have banned... because, after all, politicians know better than doctors and scientists, especially when it comes to, you know, health care and science.
As such your complete argument is both retarded, and false. This IS happening due to the scientifically inept politicians. Unless you're saying that the Swiss are a reckless people with a terrible health care system. If so, the WHO [wikimedia.org] begs to differ. So, for all your harping on, you're completely wrong, and your discussion on whether or not YOU or your unnamed sources believe it's correct/worthwhile/dangerous, is a red herring.
But thanks for your useless input.
Re:dodging anti-science? (Score:4, Insightful)
Could this have anything to do with dodging anti-science policies of the American far right?
No. It has to do with the FDA making absolutely positively sure that a treatment is safe, or at least that we know all the possible risks associated with each treatment. This takes years to complete for each and every treatment, which means that during those years, any treatment under investigation or medical trials will be unavailable in the US.
Of course, don't let the facts stop you from making your anti-Christian remarks. You should blame those dastardly Christians for everything you see wrong in the world. On Slashdot, it will even get you modded "Insightful", even though your comment is based on no facts whatsoever. Kinda like what you accuse Christians of doing.
Re:Christ versus Christians (Score:5, Insightful)
Most Christians do not realize Jesus was pretty cool to the people of different faith than him, allowing them their own beliefs so long as they didn't bother the people of his faith.
Jesus, however was extremely intolerant. At least, he was intolerant to those of his own faith who abused it for their own benefits. I can only imagine what he'd do to the Christian right, right now.
Americans go where? (Score:5, Insightful)
Doesn't every politician especially from the GOP say that the American Healthcare system and its actual care are the "best" in the world?
By the way, this is despite the fact that various [nejm.org] metrics indicate the USA is no where near the top!
Re:Let's face it, US gov't: Adam Smith wins (Score:4, Insightful)
As noted above (http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2434238&cid=37439428), some of the rush to Europe has to do with trying procedures that have enjoyed less rigorous testing than here (which has its good and bad sides. I don't understand why allergy drops are not yet mainstream treatment in the US, but the risks of certain kinds of stem cell treatment does make sense).
Not to take away from your other points.
Now THAT is a valid concern indeed. There's no need to whip up Adam Smith or economics as the boogey man here, since it lack of regulation of drug company pricing, lack of socialized medicine coupled with strong regulation of new medical procedures and over regulation of medical research (stem cell research) are all the source of the medical tourism being described. (Excessive litigation has nothing to do with it, and it is getting annoying seeing that card played over and over again).
In other words, it isn't something as simple as "the market is winning, we need less regulation".
Re:More Like Patients Dodging Federal Regulation (Score:5, Insightful)
Good point. Though, as it stands, the government is more than happy to allow you to spend insane amounts of money on frauds. My mother actually deals with this a lot, as she works with the sickest people, in the worst circumstances, and watches them spend all their money on things such as (these aren't a joke)...
Belly Button Massage
Reiki
Prayer Circles
Crystals
Potions/Elixars
Chiropractors
etc.
These people come in promising the world, provide temporary happiness, followed by a crushing sense of what have I done, I've left my family broke, and I'm still dying.
In comparison, even the worst possible scenario you could see with medical practitioners doing trying 'dangerous' (READ: experimental) medicine, looks insignificant in comparison.
Re:dodging anti-science? (Score:4, Insightful)
It also comes from the US hospitals being very conservative when it comes to offering new procedures.
But, but, duriing the health care "debate" we were told that all inovation came from the wonderful free market American system and the socilist eurofags would be screwed if they couldn't steal American ideas.
I'm so confused.
Re:Health industry of health system ? (Score:4, Insightful)
You have not proven at all that a 'system' is better then 'industry'
This was not my goal. Numerous sources have already shown that the US spend a bit more than Europe on healthcare (in % of GDP, see e.g. here [who.int]), but have poorer results in life expectancy (see e.g.here [wikipedia.org]). And don't tell me about correlation and causality...
North Korea also has a 'system' and I'm willing to be it does not produce results comparable to US 'industry'.
In the hierarchy of needs, food comes before healthcare...
Re:Christ versus Christians (Score:5, Insightful)
Once man was created as the image of the Christian God and woman from man. To suggest otherwise was heresy.
Now, using stem cells to save lives is heresy. Eventually this will change, but in the meantime be prepared to lose loved ones who could have lived longer healthier lives.
If there were a God, I would think that he would be angered by the atrocities committed in his name.
--
"God loves you, and he needs money."
George Carlin
Re:You made that up (Score:5, Insightful)
The historical record is unclear on this point *at best*.
Actually, the historical record of the time is pretty thin on Christ existing at all.
Re:More Like Patients Dodging Federal Regulation (Score:4, Insightful)
The problem is you have to duplicate all your equipment and keep track of what's used for what; nothing is allowed to be dual purpose. If a fax intended for the stem cell research group accidentally gets sent to a good and holy machine by accident, that's not allowed. You can't walk down the hall and put it in the right person's in-tray. No, got to tear it up, put it in a bin (not a government funded one!) and ask for it to be resent. And if a stem cell researcher pees in a government-funded toilet, baby Jebus will weep bitter salt tears!
Needless to say, it's all such a PITA that many organizations just decide not to bother.
This, of course, was the intent all along; banning it in practice, but allowing buffoons like you to claim they didn't.
Re:Christ versus Christians (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Christ versus Christians (Score:4, Insightful)
Hopefully, religious bigotry won't keep us from using medicine to benefit humanity for too long.
Too long? What is too long? When you lose a loved one? Is that too long? You my friend, by subscribing to a religion, lend your support (willingly or not) to the views of the leadership that you follow.
I fail to understand how people can say that they belong to a Christian sect and claim to agree with the good things and not the bad. Your religion forbids this.
You can easily vote your disagreement by not belonging. Are there not religions that give you your God, behave in a socially responsible way, AND support your beliefs?
Re:More Like Patients Dodging Federal Regulation (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:dodging anti-science? (Score:4, Insightful)
Why, exactly?
Thalidomide [wikipedia.org] and similar cock ups.
Re:Christ versus Christians (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:More Like Patients Dodging Federal Regulation (Score:4, Insightful)
wait a minute. My wife is pregnant at 10 weeks. We went for a 7 week checkup and the heartbeat had already formed and was beating 167 bpm. Also the head and brain was forming, feet and arms as stubs. Are you telling me this isn't a living person?
Yes. There are many non-person living things on this planet that have a heartbeat, head, brain, arms, feet, etc. A mouse for example. Your blob of living stuff isn't even up to mouse standards at the moment though. It's totally unable to live on it's own. It's sub-mouse.
You can't see this obvious fact because you and your wife's brains are broken. It happens to all parents. Logic and reason are completely absent when children are involved. Evolution likes it that way. That's good for kids because you people mindlessly sacrifice for them so they can grow big and strong, but it's bad for society as a whole because the lot of you are one big EPIC FAIL when it comes to matters of public policy that involve reproduction.
Re:dodging anti-science? (Score:3, Insightful)
They free load on our pharmaceutical industry mostly, but there are a few that operate over seas, most of them are based in the US.
Hahahhaha!
Of the 10 largest pharmaceutical companies by sales six are based in Europe.
Re:More Like Patients Dodging Federal Regulation (Score:4, Insightful)
Nobody's trying to make it "easy". They just want to make it the decision of the fully-baked human who happens to have the fetus inside of her body.
Until you can give me an argument for why someone should have more authority to decide what happens to the fetus than the woman who is actually carrying the fetus in her womb then the woman, and only the woman, should decide.
Can we at least agree that until the baby is born, that the fetus belongs to the mother? I think the fact that it exists within the mother's body, and actually feeds off the mother's body is a pretty compelling argument for it being the mother's dominion, no?
And why do the "pro-life" people have such a low opinion of childbirth? To them, there's nothing special about being born because the fetus is a full person from the moment the sperm hits the egg. Childbirth is just a formality to them, apparently. As someone who's been present at the birth of a daughter, I can tell you that they are wrong. Childbirth is a pretty significant even in the life of a human person.