Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
Science

Israel To Join CERN As First Non-European Member 351

Posted by samzenpus
from the join-the-party dept.
First time accepted submitter WorldPiece writes "More accurately, first non-European full member. This comes with some opposition from groups pushing to boycott Israel academia in response to the Israeli government's policies. 'It is a vital part of our mission to build bridges between nations. This agreement enriches us scientifically and is an important step in that direction,' CERN's Director General Rolf Heuer, a German physicist, told the signing ceremony."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Israel To Join CERN As First Non-European Member

Comments Filter:
  • Good. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by msobkow (48369) on Sunday September 18, 2011 @09:36AM (#37433468) Homepage Journal

    Politics have no business in science.

    • Unfortunately, many politicians make it their business, to dabble their fingers in science to get it under their control. For the usual motives: money, power, etc.

    • by timeOday (582209)
      Would you have any problem with Iran joining the European Organization for Nuclear Research? Maybe you wouldn't, but I guarantee Israel would. And I'm not claiming Israel = Iran, just that many would argue a line must be drawn somewhere.
      • No, Israel would not oppose to Iran participating in a worldwide nuclear-research body. Iran has very talented nuclear engineers. That would be a terrific project for them.

        Oh, I'm Israeli.

    • Re:Good. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by TubeSteak (669689) on Sunday September 18, 2011 @10:34AM (#37433750) Journal

      Politics have no business in science.

      If there's funding involved, there's politics.
       

    • Not true at all. Many scientific endeavors have public policy and ethical considerations that very much are matters that should be political. Not everything that can be done in the name of science should be done.
    • by quenda (644621)

      Politics have no business in science.

      Heisenberg. 1941. Are you certain?

    • Re:Good. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Hazel Bergeron (2015538) on Sunday September 18, 2011 @11:40AM (#37434158) Journal

      Gather round while I sing you of Wernher von Braun [youtube.com]
      A man whose allegiance is ruled by expedience
      Call him a Nazi, he won't even frown
      "Ha, Nazi schmazi," says Wernher von Braun

      Don't say that he's hypocritical
      Say rather that he's apolitical
      "Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down
      That's not my department," says Wernher von Braun

      Some have harsh words for this man of renown
      But some think our attitude should be one of gratitude
      Like the widows and cripples in old London town
      Who owe their large pensions to Wernher von Braun

      You too may be a big hero
      Once you've learned to count backwards to zero
      "In German oder English I know how to count down
      Und I'm learning Chinese," says Wernher von Braun.

    • "Politics have no business in science."

      You forgot to supply the attribution for your citation:
      "Signed, Werner Von Braun".

      Of course, it rings with more authority, when presented in the original German.

    • by bjourne (1034822)
      No? Then how come Palestine is not a member of CERN too?
    • by ultranova (717540)

      Politics have no business in science.

      CERN was founded by a political decision, and is publicly funded. So yes, politics do have business there. The very article says so: "It is a vital part of our mission to build bridges between nations." That's a political agenda right there.

      And in any case, allowing Israel in is a political decision. CERN is publicly operated, so any and all decisions concerning it are political by definition.

    • Politics have no business in science.

      Accuracy does though - Israel is becoming and associate member NOT a full member of CERN. There is a difference!

  • "It is a vital part of our mission to build bridges between nations."

    I thought CERN was all about science. What's this about building bridges?

    • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 18, 2011 @10:28AM (#37433728)

      "It is a vital part of our mission to build bridges between nations."

      I thought CERN was all about science. What's this about building bridges?

      International co-operation is pretty critical in science, without touching on politics at all. That's one of the great things about conferences. I went to a conference in the US earlier in the year, and met someone doing a PhD in hydrology. After chatting with them, it turned out that as part of their work they had collected a pretty comprehensive set of deep-sea water samples for an area I was interested in. I work on marine microbiology, and my university has no way of collecting deep-sea water samples. After a little discussion and a few polite emails later to her P.I., they kindly gave me pretty hefty aliquots of water from as deep as 5,600m below the sea surface. That stuff has been pretty central to the work in my PhD and like I said, I had no way of getting it on my own.

      International co-operation, collaboration and exchanges of ideas and equipment/samples is incredibly important and doesn't have to involve politics one bit.

    • by Dunbal (464142) *
      Engineering is not science?
      • Engineering is union of applied science, business and art.

      • Engineering is not science?

        No, engineering is not science in the same way that a reader of a book is not an author. Engineering uses science. If you need further proof just look at the vast majority of universities: science and engineering and separate faculties.

    • by mysidia (191772) *

      I thought CERN was all about science. What's this about building bridges?

      Building bridges facilitates Science by providing more sources of $$$.

      CERN is about science, but even Newton had to eat.

      I'm a bit taken aback that they've allowed a non-European country to join, but the United States is still relegated to "Observer status" (E.g. 'Source of $$$, but not allowed to participate or become a full member')

      • I'm a bit taken aback that they've allowed a non-European country to join, but the United States is still relegated to "Observer status" (E.g. 'Source of $$$, but not allowed to participate or become a full member')

        Then you'll be glad to know that the US are not a "source of $$$" for CERN:
        CERN budget by states [web.cern.ch] [2009 budget, seems to be the newest available].

        Yes, goods and services (designing and building stuff) did and do come from the US too, but those
        happen with full scientific involvement of several big American universities and research facilities.

        I have no idea where you got the idea from that the US don't participate in CERN research,
        or are even somehow forbidden to do so.

    • I thought CERN was all about science. What's this about building bridges?

      CERN was founded in the post second world war period. Part of its aim was to build bridges between nations THROUGH science since it was well recognised that science provides a common goal to work towards and that scientists are usually pretty open minded about most things. It certainly worked for me - as a Brit I now have many friends and colleagues scattered around the globe from a huge variety of different national, cultural and religious backgrounds thanks to CERN.

    • by DesScorp (410532)

      "It is a vital part of our mission to build bridges between nations."

      I thought CERN was all about science. What's this about building bridges?

      Absolutely. Despite all of the talk here about "Science should be above politics", this seems politically-motivated. If you want to expand CERN beyond the boundaries of Europe because you want to add the best scientific minds you can to your group, then just say so (and Israel has a first-rate groups of scientists and engineers). But leave politics out of it. Stick to the science, and leave "building bridges" to the diplomats, please. Just come out and say "Hey, Israel has top scientists and we want them in

  • What's more interesting to me than Israel joining specifically, is the "first non-European member of the European Organization for Nuclear Research". Is Israel simply an exception, or will CERN be moving to less of a European focus in the future? For example, Turkey has applied for membership; will they eventually join? Could other in-the-region-of-Europe states like Egypt join?

1: No code table for op: ++post

Working...