Layoff Anxiety Is Top Risk To Space Shuttle 178
pickens writes "Florida today reports that as NASA marches toward its final two shuttle flights, the safety of the crew rests with workers who know every bolt they turn, every heat-shield tile they inspect, brings them that much closer to the unemployment line in April 2011 raising concerns that people might jump ship early if other job opportunities open up. 'We've been most concerned about maintaining and sustaining the knowledge necessary to safely conduct mission operations,' says Retired Navy Vice Adm. Joseph Dyer. But shuttle work force surveys show a fierce loyalty and a dedication to sticking it out as long term employees want to be there when the last shuttle touches down. 'They love being part of NASA and what NASA does, and they love being part of the space shuttle program. And they want to be a part of it as long as we're doing the kinds of things that we're doing,' says LeRoy Cain, NASA's deputy shuttle program manager."
Layoff Anxiety? (Score:5, Insightful)
This is exactly the reason that restaurants and other companies don't tell employees about plant or store closures until the last moment. It's not entirely fair to the workers, but many would rather find a new job quickly instead of being unemployed. I was out of work for nearly 2 months (and even then I was lucky in finding new work) when the restaurant I worked out told us 5 minutes before we walked out the door for the evening that we wouldn't be open in the morning.
I imagine those these folks working for NASA have skills that the private space agencies will definitely want and I wouldn't be surprised to see most of these guys going to work the next day for one of those companies.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
When you see the orbiters they look like they just rolled out of the factory. Anything you read about orbiters deteriorating is a lie. They are pristine.
With all the money and attention lavished on them, that is as it should be.
Many people are still in denial that this county would be so stupid as to throw away such magnificent machines and they want to be there to keep them flying when we come to our senses.
The shuttles barely have a niche now, and that niche only exists because people work hard to make it exist - the shuttles are a prime example of what not to do, and I couldn't care less (yes, that is the correct way to use that phrase - its "couldn't" not "could") if the shuttles never fleww again.
What the US needs now is a commuter vehicle, something that runs as regular as a standard family car, with similar maintenance levels, not classic car levels. The US does not need a 'do it all' vehicle which comes with an appropriately sized superbudget, it does not need the ability to haul the entire house with it each time it makes the commute from the house to the office. Leave the heavy lift to specialised vehicles, and leave the commuting to specialised vehicles - they are separate problems, they should have separate solutions.
Re:Why? (Score:3, Insightful)
proud of our country?
do you realize (I'm sure you do) that all chips, transistors, resistors and caps (especially caps; see the china syndrome 'bad caps' that made the news the last, oh, 10 or so years) are made overseas.
we can't trust or rely on their parts quality anymore (the entire world got screwed over by trusting the chinese build caps and not have the electrolyte explode in years to come).
I'm actually surprised more things aren't failing and falling out of the sky due to bad caps (they are even in military supply channels from what I've been told).
if we want pride we should start making parts (tiny parts, not just whole boards) and THEN we can say 'hurrah! this was really an american accomplishment'.
as it is, its a world wide effort and I wonder - I really wonder - how much design and engineering is done onshore these days.
the space program used to get us 'new inventions' but lately, in the last 10 or 20 yrs, what have we gained from it? how much has it cost?
I'm just not sure its the best use of our VERY limited funds, these days. we're hurting, in case you haven't heard. money is better spent on other things (and yes, I'm a science guy but even I realize that we are throwing a lot of money away at a time where its needed on more directl and urgent things).
if/when we have a sound financial footing again in this country (...) then it would be time to put money toward luxuries like 'space'. but it clearly is a luxury and one that I'm not sure we can (or should) afford right now.
national pride in 'space' is bullshit, these days. lets feed our own people, send them to school and rebuild our failing roads and infrastructure! invest in our data comm infra (we're way behind in that compared to many other countries). lots of things our money could go better towards that would improve the life of real people, not just the select few that go into space.
Re:Why? (Score:2, Insightful)
Well thank god we didn't outsource those O-rings for the fuel tanks to some country of assholes! Who knows what could have happened.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:look up warn act (Score:5, Insightful)
WARN Act layoff notice laws require employers to give employees notification before mass layoffs or plant closings
Or pay a modest fine that can't be collected from a bankrupt store/restaurant etc and is probably less than the productivity losses from pre-announcing at the plant.
On the other hand theres no point in carrying this too far, once you get to assembly plants (automotive, etc) everyone knows when no supply orders are delivered anymore, etc.
As a hint, if the store is accumulating empty unstocked shelves, its going down....
Re:Why? (Score:3, Insightful)
Why? Commuting implies a destination. The Space Age is over. The sooner you fruitcakes come to grips with the fact that space is utterly hostile and empty, the better.
Earth is, of course, a prime example of the utter hostility and emptiness of space. With considerable effort, I'm sure we could make a bunch more hostile and empty places like Earth.
Re:Why? (Score:2, Insightful)
the usual phrasing ("could care less") is an Nth-generation requote so removed from its original context that all intention of the original utterance has been lost and all that remains is an awkward phrase which few realize is stupid and backward, moron.
Unfortunately, the commuter model doesn't work (Score:5, Insightful)
Although the ideal requirement can be stated concisely, that does not mean it is actually possible. NASA's overall problem is one of mission incompatibility. Normally if I post something like this, somebody replies "with your attitude we wouldn't have discovered fire yet". To which the reply is that fire is ridiculously easy to discover; wait for a thunderstorm after a dry period. We have got where we are because energy became more and more readily available as our tools improved. But energy has ceased to become more readily available; we do not have any feasible technology for space lift that does not require exotic chemical mixtures. NASA is being asked to look at the wrong end of the telescope. Much better fuel or lift means needs to come first. Douglas Adams, who was no fool, satirised the problem with his infinite improbability drive and bistromath drives, but in fact he identified the core problem in space travel.
Re:Why? (Score:1, Insightful)
Most of the "Private Space" jobs are not at KSC though, they are elsewhere in the US...it's not trivial to up and move when everyone else is trying to do the same at the same time. That whole region will look like the rust-belt in a few years with nothing left...
Re:Why? (Score:4, Insightful)
True, but then all it takes is one little asteroid [wikipedia.org] to ruin your day.
It generally is not a good idea to "keep all your eggs in one basket". The small, admittedly expensive, forays we make into space today provide future generations the knowledge they need to create sustainable habitats away from Earth, necessary to preserve our species when another Extinction Level Event [wikipedia.org] occurs. You are welcome to live in a tin can under the ocean and be crushed by the intense compression waves of a meteorite impact, I'll be safely watching the from one of our orbital habitats. [wikipedia.org]
NASA tanked a long time ago (Score:5, Insightful)
This is just the maintenance crew. NASA's real collapse came at the end of Apollo, when they laid off most of the people who designed and engineered spacecraft. NASA, like Google now, had been the place where the really smart and competent people went. That all ended around 1973.
Re:Layoff Anxiety? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why? (Score:3, Insightful)
We have a much better chance of handling an 'Extinction Level Event' if we a) don't completely trash the planet so there are some habitable areas left by the time the big ball hits b) try to figure out how to run civilizations so that even trivial little things like earthquakes, floods and rush hour don't cause major issues and c) learn how to maybe, perhaps, get along with ourselves and our current lifeboat.
Remember, that even big ball hits leave survivors. I had one of them for dinner last night. Tasted like chicken.
Re:Why? (Score:4, Insightful)
If an ELE occurs it won't matter how nice to the planet we've been, the entire ecosystem will be thrashed and the survivors are going to wish they had died. The life they will have to live will be so incredibly hard; war for the scant resources remaining will be common, many will die of starvation, and simple diseases easily curable before the impact will claim many.
If you think an earthquake or flood is a trivial event, you're not paying attention to recent events. Five years later they are *still* putting New Orleans [wikipedia.org] back together. Haiti is still a mess [wikipedia.org], I remember reading estimates its going to take years and at least 14 Billion [reuters.com] just to put Haiti back the way it was.
When an event like this happens even the concerted effort of a group of nations, and Billions in donations from a concerned public, can only alleviate some of the suffering and it will take years rebuild their lost infrastructure.
An ELE event, if it doesn't outright kill you first, is going to catastrophically cripple everyone.
We'd lose our global manufacturing base, the one thing that could help clean up the mess, and effectively put us back to the early stone age. In a North American society, and a good chunk of Europe, few of us know anything about basic survival. Do you honestly expect the majority of survivors from a "modern" society to know how to eke out a basic living when we're so used to the conveniences of take out, fast food, gourmet restaurants, and grocery stores?
It won't matter if everyone is all fluffy bunnies and roses when an ELE event occurs.
When it does happen our fluffy bunnies and roses mentality will get pushed aside and our base instincts will take over. The only reason "modern" societies are even able to function is because our manufacturing and infrastructure base allows even the weakest amongst us to survive without too much struggle. Take that away and it quickly will devolve into a "survival of the fittest" situation.
Our best hope for survival as a species is to spread out to as many places as we can, as far away from Earth as we can, so if something bad happens to any one of those colonies the rest of the species has a fighting chance for survival and can use their infrastructure and manufacturing bases to help the others pick up the pieces.
So much astroturf! (Score:1, Insightful)
This post stinks of PR. Were you paid to write this? The orbiters are falling apart, that's why the last one blew up and endangered millions of lives on the ground! The ability of Americans to ignore reality will forever mystify me. In any event, I suppose it doesn't matter anymore - The writing is on the wall! American domination of space is coming to an end! The faster the Americans are grounded the safer the rest of the world will be. We'll all be cheering when the last shuttle lands forever and faces the scrapper's torch. Now all we need to do is get rid of the American parts of the ISS, get some Chinese or Indian workers up there, and we can get some REAL work done! (The russians are lazy drunks, but that's better than ignorant rednecks!)
Hey, maybe they'll even sell the scrap to a properly civilized country with a properly civilized government! Wouldn't that be nice? Your glorious white-elephant of a shuttle might become beer cans for the REAL engineers who design SAFE, SUCCESSFUL, RELIABLE space transportation systems! I guess then it wouldn't be a complete waste, right?
Re:Layoff Anxiety? (Score:3, Insightful)
He's talking about the caricature of France as understood by Americans.
Re:Layoff Anxiety? (Score:3, Insightful)
the short term problem of not getting the last two launches prepared is the LEAST of NASA's problems. The REAL problem is that once these guys are gone and the teams broken up, that technical ability is gone... poof. NASA doesn't even have the program to build a capsule for basic maintenance of the space station and servicing satellites STARTED YET! This is going to be a 20 year blight on the agency when it happens... these jobs aren't going to be replaced, private industry isn't legally ALLOWED to do the kinds of things these employees did.