Stem Cell Tourist Dies From Treatment In Thailand 451
An anonymous reader writes "Last week, news that Costa Rica was shutting down a large stem cell clinic sparked a debate here on Slashdot about whether patients should be allowed to take the risks that come with untested treatments. Now comes news of what can happen when patients go looking for a shortcut. A patient suffering from an autoimmune disease that was destroying her kidneys went to a Bangkok clinic, where doctors injected her own adult stem cells into her kidneys. Now she's dead, and a postmortem revealed that the sites of injection had weird growths — 'tangled mixtures of blood vessels and bone marrow cells.' Researchers say the treatment almost certainly killed her."
"almodlst certainly killed her"... (Score:1, Interesting)
that's like me saying "he was absolutely, undoubtedly wrong. Maybe".
What is needed is 2 levels of FDA (Score:5, Interesting)
So, the solution should 2 different FDAs.
The first protects normal ppl. THat is it makes certain that we do not have more issues like we have with Tylenol, Ibuprofin, etc. Likewise, it says what procedures to risk, etc.
HOWEVER, once you have exhausted all avenues, and your life is on a thread, then you can step up to a different protocol. But ppl and companies in this arena, than have medical protection, etc., but have access to radical treatments. The idea is that FDA2 would make certain that it is not done DANGEROUSLY, at least without the patient having a good understanding.
If we are going to make advances, we NEED ppl to be allowed to take INFORMED risks, but safely.
Re:This will be interesting.... (Score:4, Interesting)
As long as an individual is adequately informed of the risks that individual has a right to take that risk.
That's a meaningless platitude when it comes to something like this.
Many individuals with these diseases or conditions considering these treatments have no sense of risk left at all. They will do *anything* whether it has the slightest basis in science, or relies entirely on magic, astrology, mysticism, the power of crystals, aliens, jesus, snake oil... anything.
It is morally wrong to exploit someone in that position financially (or otherwise). Claiming that you disclosed the risks and they signed the waiver doesn't make it ok. In a sense they do have a gun pointed at their head... whats a raft of fine print and a 2nd mortgage when your life is on the line.
And they're promising the solution* to all your problems!!
(in 2pt font: * solution not guaranteed to solve your problems, and may actually make them worse, but there's a nother treatment we can try that will solve* that, but its a bit riskier and more expensive...)
The Geneva convention is about the state using humans as test subjects. That is a whole different can of worms.
Agreed.
Re:The risks aren't bad for some of us. (Score:5, Interesting)
Mod parent up.
Autoimmune diseases tear the body apart. I didn't RTFA, but somebody in end-stage kidney failure would likely choose some risky options, maybe even unscientific ones. I am in no way endorsing the pseudoscience going on here with the stem cell treatments, but palliative care is the only option available with modern medicine in these circumstances. With all the stupid laws here in the United States outlawing effective pain-relieving drugs and assisted suicide, people are getting desperate.
Re:So what? (Score:5, Interesting)
Thailand isn't exactly known for health and quality medicine
Hundreds of thousands of westerners go to Thailand for treatment every year. I was treated for a very serious lung infection at Bumrungrad Hospital in Bangkok back in 1995 and the treatment was better than any I've received in the US or Europe.
http://www.bumrungrad.com/ [bumrungrad.com]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_tourism#Thailand [wikipedia.org]
Re:Aim for the real problem. (Score:2, Interesting)
For every man who was Madoff an example, there are a million other CEOs and other suited crooks working for the financial industry, with 30 million dollar bonuses. You'd kill your first-born son if it meant 50 million bucks and nobody ever finding out about it. With regards to scientific exploration, internal and external -- fuck it, do it. That's how we learn, for better or worse.
Re:This will be interesting.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Maybe you don't understand how desperate a person can get when they're faced with something "incurable". Back in the 90's, I had lymphoma and thought my goose was cooked. I was lucky enough to be part of a drug trial for a medicine that is routinely used to treat the disease. Of course, it was an excellent university hospital that was doing the trial, and they gave me the very best care, not some third-world biopirate lab. I guess it was caught early enough and I was very very lucky because it's been 13 years now without a recurrence and now I'm healthy as Secretariat on his best day. I've come to believe that it wasn't as dire as I thought it was when I was diagnosed, but I was sure I was a goner at the time. Once the doc said "cancer" I couldn't hear a word and just saw my own death. The chemo was a fucking nightmare and it's taken a decade of tai chi to undo some of the neurotoxicity. Looking back I sort of sleepwalked through the ordeal, but if I'd been faced with early death or some crazy bio-soup from Thailand, I'm not sure I wouldn't roll the dice, even against big odds. I remember "helpful" family members talking to me about faith healers and shit and thank god it didn't come to me making that kind of decision.
Re:Aim for the real problem. (Score:1, Interesting)
I am a religious freak. And I do not oppose adult stem cell research at all. Hey, my nephew probably owes his life to it. I do oppose embryonic stem cell research, because it creates a demand for dead babies, which I have a huge moral problem with.
Also, adult stem cell research has led to over seventy approved treatments being used today. The number from embryonic research? Zero. But for some reason all the noise is made about embryonic research. I really do not understand why. Especially with the 2005 discovery that skin cells can essentially be transformed into stem cells [washingtonpost.com] without killing anyone.
To summarize: no, we (or at least my circle of contacts) are not
flat out fucking wrong
, anti-science, or subhuman. There is also little reason to fund embryonic stem cell research when adult stem cell research is so much more promising.
Re:What is needed is 2 levels of FDA (Score:1, Interesting)
As pointed out in another comment, the Thai doctors performed a proceedure that was never before tested with adult stemcells; namely, direct site injection, rather than intravenous injection.
This is essentially the kind of thing that the GP wants to AVOID have happen, by creating a second regulatory body for "extreme" case individuals.
The prior poster commenting about Phase1 trials omits that to even *GET* to human phase 1 trials, you have to go through DECADES of animal model research. (At least when concerned with surgical treatments, and stem cell injections are essentially a self-transplant surgery.)
This is precisely why you have "widely used" surgical practices in Europe, that *STILL* are not even at phase 1 here in the US.
Thus, the "Phase 1" rhetoric is total FAIL.
I agree with the GP, that special provisions should be available for extreme, "Last ditch effort" cases.
Re:Wow (Score:3, Interesting)
Any "Hungry" tumor will create a "vasculoma". (A tangled mass of thick veins) This is because the tumor produces "stress" hormones when it is "undernourished", which stimulates the production of these veins, which form in and around the site of the tumor, in order to feed said tumor.
This is one of the issues surrounding tumor removal, and why some tumors are unsafe to be removed.
Also, some totally benign tumors (slow growth, small if any risk of cancer) can develop vasculoma tissues inside and surrounding it. (I myself had a lipoma surrounded by vasculoma removed from my right arm a few years back.)
It sounds to me like the actual tumor was bone marrow tissue, which was abnormal.
This is common with adult harvested stemcells that have not been properly screened for pre-cancerous conditions. (Yes, you CAN have "Cancer" stem-cells, ESPECIALLY from adult sourced tissues.)
Personally though, I'd bet money that the reason why she developed bone marrow tissue was because of her already existant systemic inflammatory reaction. Such conditions cause the body to mass produce stemcells in the bone marrow, which then freely circulate in the bloodstream. However, this places a great deal of stress on the progenitor cells in that bone marrow, which can produce said earlier mentioned "cancer" stemcells, and can cause abnormal bone marrow to develop, which can metastisize (sp?).
I suspect that a better autopsy would find inflamed bone marrow, (in her bones), and the presence of marrow progenitor cells circulating in her blood.
For those that didn't RTFA... (Score:5, Interesting)
It should be noted for those that didn't RTFA that this case was more of a cause of bad clinic than a bad procedure.
According to the article, patients with similar kidney issues in a clinical trial in which bone marrow stem cells were injected into the blood stream showed marked improvements.
This clinic, on the other hand, injected these cells directly into the kidney rather than into her blood stream, causing the adult stem cells to try to build blood vessels in her kidney when they should have injected the stem cells into her bloodstream.
So, in other words, had the clinic done what the had been at least moderately successful in previous trials rather than haphazardly throw their own spin onto it, the patient would likely have been fine.
News flash: people sometimes die (Score:3, Interesting)
even if they receive medical treatment. Not that I'm defending some clinic in Thailand, but we don't see a news report every time someone dies from medical treatment, even from "mainstream medicine". And that's because sometimes people die. We all know and accept it, doctors warn you about it. Some doctors even make a living out of it (oncology, any kind of non-trivial surgery, etc), there are industries based on it (if you can call insurance an "industry"). So experimental stem cell treatment is not 100% effective. What is?
Re:This will be interesting.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Not as a form of detox, friend, but as a way to help me get my balance back. I had gotten to the point where I couldn't put a pair of socks on or tie my shoes without sitting down. I'd get dizzy walking up a flight of stairs.
The chemo made me weak, damaged my immune system, my stamina. Tai Chi has helped out a lot. As a form of exercise, tai chi, like other martial arts, is terrific. It's not about healing disease, it's about feeling better. There's a growing amount of research showing the benefits of Tai Chi, including over a thousand years of human trials with tens of millions of Chinese as subjects. That may not be enough "data" to satisfy you, but I've got an 85 year old instructor, Grandmaster Hsu Fun Yuen, who could kick your ass, and certainly mine, around the room right now without raising his heartrate. He says it's the tai chi that gives him longevity, vitality enough to have a 7 year old daughter, and I ain't gonna argue with him. When you see an 85 year old man execute a perfect flying kick while swinging a 3 pound broadsword (Dao) in the tai chi sword form, it's convincing as hell.
It's also fun, which makes the health benefits icing on the cake.
MD+Geek (Score:1, Interesting)
From an M.D.: That is cancer on command here, so stupid to make that. These stem cells are supposed to make that tumor, its called Terratoma (its a cancer, weird mixture reminiscent of body pieces); Its actually a routine test for the cells if they are very "strong" stem cells - inject them into mice/human and the higher the variety of cells, the "stronger" they are stem cells. Here physician likely seemed to master to produce the "right" cells. But research is not nearly anywhere close to "direct" them in their growth in organs - they just form uncontrollable masses of cancer so far. They should have told here - may be they did. But sometimes patients are fragile and let here physician do whatever they want. And these "stem cell treatments" are just wrong doing with something that needs a lot to be developed. That was just injecting cancer, period. In this case, these *might* have clogged here essential blood vessels in the kidney.
In rocket science, they have put monkeys/dogs for a good reason into their early dangerous vessels. And here they put humans into things that are not flying straight ...and ignite.
Re:Aim for the real problem. (Score:3, Interesting)
Well, your affinity for some clumps of undifferentiated cells may well have contributed to the continued suffering or death of countless real, living, breathing, actualized human beings with self awareness, names, and families who'll mourn them. Can you not see the imbalance in that decision?
Re:So what? (Score:5, Interesting)
This has already been pointed out to you shouldn't let your preconceived notions of Thailand based on the sex trade jokes, protests and/or kickboxing movies run your mouth.
Thailand has some very good private hospitals that are the best in the region and are staffed by some very competent folks. Bangkok is a medevac destination for expat organizations in SE Asia. To give you an idea, when I was working for MSF in SE Asia, at one point we had 5-6 expats in Bangkok for various reasons we felt couldn't be treated with confidence in the country of their assigned project, three of whom were themselves physicians, two German, one Japanese. No complaints.
I won't comment on the Thai clinic that performed this procedure, because I don't know and wouldn't know much about it that side of the coin.
And to give you some more perspective, it's funny that you mention Johns Hopkins, because that's where I was trained in my medical specialty.
The question is not... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Aim for the real problem. (Score:3, Interesting)
No evidence of souls have ever been found in zygotes.