Re-Engineering the Immune System 175
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by
kdawson
from the immunity-two-point-oh dept.
from the immunity-two-point-oh dept.
destinyland notes a microbiology professor describing "Immunity on Demand" (or "Immunity 2.0") and wonders whether we could genetically engineer all the antibodies we need. "...there's a good chance this system, or something like it, will actually be in place within decades. Caltech scientists have already engineered stem cells into B cells that produce HIV-fighting antibodies — and an NIH researcher engineered T cells that recognize tumors which has already had promising clinical trials again skin cancer. Our best hope may be to cut out the middleman. Rather than merely hoping that the vaccine will indirectly lead to the antibody an individual needs, imagine if we could genetically engineer these antibodies and make them available as needed?"
I was under the impression (Score:2, Insightful)
That we can't actually see a majority of diseases under a microscope, only the antibodies our bodies produce to fight it off. Has that part been a myth or have we merely technologically advanced past that?
I find it difficult for us to engineer an antibody to fight against something we haven't actually detected yet.
Re:I was under the impression (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, we will still leave our immune system to handle the unknown. However the concept of either enabling a mass and cheap production of specific antibodies against viruses like HIV or transferring the antibody producing B cells into our bodies is certainly interesting. I was under the impression that his was not done earlier mainly due to the prohibitive costs of treating everyone this way. Given that there is still no effective vaccine this may actually become viable prevention or treatment option.
Lazy immune system? (Score:2, Insightful)
I have to ask, b/c I don't know, but could this lead to lazy-, or even more inept immune systems?
autoimmunity could be a major side-effect (Score:4, Insightful)
Boy, Howdy! (Score:3, Insightful)
Hey, awesome... (Score:1, Insightful)
Lets cure all natural causes of death through the miracle of modern science.
Then starve to death as the world becomes grossly overpopulated.
Re:Hey, awesome... (Score:2, Insightful)
Lets cure all natural causes of death through the miracle of modern science.
Then starve to death as the world becomes grossly overpopulated.
Don't worry. The human race is so effective at killing each other that most people won't starve anyway.
Re:And then when a new disease cones along ... (Score:5, Insightful)
You acquire immunity based on exposure to particular agents. If a new disease comes along, your immune system won't be properly trained no matter what you've been doing before. That is what makes it a "new" disease. Plus, the whole point of this approach would be that you could engineer antibodies on demand for the new disease, and take them before it kills you.
The immune system will, given time, almost always come up with antibodies and mount a response; but some conditions will kill you good and hard before you have time to mount that response. This is why vaccines are useful(since they provoke the same or similar response; but are harmless, so your immune system isn't racing against the clock). If you could engineer the antibodies themselves, you could get even faster response, and have something that would work even once you are infected.
It would, essentially, allow you to apply the technique that we currently use in Antivenom agents to diseases generally.
Re:Unintended Consequences? (Score:3, Insightful)
Move to a country with free healthcare?
Seriously, paying for medicine is so 19th century.
Re:Here's hoping... (Score:4, Insightful)
Here's hoping I don't die before they invent invincibility... biologically speaking of course :)
Personally, I'm hoping they invent immortality instead. I've looked at the curves and honestly, relatively few people die "before their time" because we've become rather good at medicine but we've made very little impact on prolonging the real life span barring injury or disease. Very few of us, even those young today, will live to be 100 unless there's some real medical breakthroughs on repairing and restoring body and mind. If our bodies could stay like a 20 year old's forever, we could live to be a thousand years old already. The mortality rate for a 20 year old is <0,001.
Re:Unintended Consequences? (Score:2, Insightful)
You need to come up with some better phrasing for that, you are suggesting that back in the 19th century, we had to pay for medicine, rather than having slaves like we do today.
You should probably use 'universal health care' instead of 'free health care', and speak about not charging for it at the point of delivery.
Re:Unintended Consequences? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'll stick with a doctor who isn't an agent of the government, thanks.
Hmm. No public schools, no govt scholarships, doesn't take medicare patients, no medical license, no business license, doesn't cooperate with the CDC, ... That leaves us with what, one master herbalist in Berkley?
I had doctors who were agents of the gov't... (Score:5, Insightful)
... for 20 years. They were called "Navy doctors". They had all the latest technology, were extremely skilled, and... free. Of course, taxpayer dollars were paying them, but 1) total costs per person in the military are a hell of a lot less than the mess we have going on in the world of private health insurance, and 2) for the cost of something like the Iraq war, we could have provided health coverage for the entire country for like 15 years. So it's not like we can't afford it.
People who bitch about "socialized medicine" should try it some time.
Re:I was under the impression (Score:2, Insightful)
[...] to have an implant that wirelessly receives new data definitions of proteins expressed by various pathogens and have it express the protein in a way that will trigger an immune response. [...] Basically, an automatic flu shot every year, an automatic immunization against pandemics, an automatic immunization in case of biological attack, an automatic immunization against cancer-causing viruses, etc.
Wait until someone enters through your backdoor and pushes your big red button of self-destruction.
Re:Dangers of the right thing (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't buy it. Every population has some members with autoimmune diseases. But the Black death reached its peak in Europe.
Re:I had doctors who were agents of the gov't... (Score:1, Insightful)
Except private medical care was very cheap until government got involved. Anyone who has been involved with medicine, especially billing, since before Medicare will tell you how the rise in the cost of medicine has been driven by Medicare.
Socialized medicine is not going to give everyone a "Navy Doctor." In fact your Navy Doctors may just highlight one of the problems with socialized medicine. It took taxes taken from 150 million to 200 million people or so (over the course of your full service) to provide excellent medical care for, what? 455 682, (active duty plus reserve)? If that same revenue had to provide medical care for the same 200 million people, the quality would drop or the system would go bankrupt, which is what i have heard reported is slowly happening to the UK and Canada. I remember a report from last year on Canada having to privatize a small portion of it's medical industry for budgeting concerns. I think it had to do with pharmacies and prescriptions. Norway pays for their medical coverage through government owned fossil fuel deposits.
The mess we have going on in the world of private health insurance was actually caused in large part by the involvement of Medicare, as many people who have been involved with medical billing since before Medicare will tell you.
Lastly, the 'socialized medicine' bills that have been proposed in the US so far, are absolutely horrible. Even if socialized medicine could work better than anything else, none of the bills that have been involved in the debates in the last year would give us such a system. I have read articles from 3 or 4 different people who have actually read the bills in their entirety, from lawyers to doctors, and the bills we have had to choose from would utterly destroy medicine in this country as well as make massive end-runs around the 4th amendment.
It is not governments function to take care of it's people. In fact it has been shown time and time again that attempts by the federal government to do so have caused more harm to our society than they have prevented from federal aid for disaster areas to medical coverage to education. It's not good to be dependent upon your government, eventually that becomes an avenue of control.
Re:Dangers of the right thing (Score:3, Insightful)
A lot of != all.
Certainly it's hard to argue that the strongest selective pressure for Europeans hasn't been for resistance to the plague (and other communicable diseases).
Re:Funny phrasing (Score:3, Insightful)
Incorrect:
"to keep us from getting sick."
Correct:
"to keep us from getting a sickness, again."
Re:Unintended Consequences? (Score:3, Insightful)
"a representative or official of a government or administrative department of a government."
Yes, and the statement was so stupid it deserved nothing more then ridicule.
Which part of:
"...promote the general Welfare..." do you not understand?