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Comments: 820 +-   Scientists Create Artificial Meat on Monday November 30, @04:46PM

Posted by ScuttleMonkey on Monday November 30, @04:46PM
from the mmmmm-soggy-pork dept.
biotech
earth
science
Hugh Pickens writes "The Telegraph reports that scientists have created the first artificial meat by extracting cells from the muscle of a live pig and putting them in a broth of other animal products where the cells then multiplied to create muscle tissue. Described as soggy pork, researchers believe that it can be turned into something like steak if they can find a way to 'exercise' the muscle and while no one has yet tasted the artificial meat, researchers believe the breakthrough could lead to sausages and other processed products being made from laboratory meat in as little as five years' time. '"What we have at the moment is rather like wasted muscle tissue. We need to find ways of improving it by training it and stretching it, but we will get there," says Mark Post, professor of physiology at Eindhoven University. "You could take the meat from one animal and create the volume of meat previously provided by a million animals." Animal rights group Peta has welcomed the laboratory-grown meat, announcing that "as far as we're concerned, if meat is no longer a piece of a dead animal there's no ethical objection while the Vegetarian Society remained skeptical. "The big question is how could you guarantee you were eating artificial flesh rather than flesh from an animal that had been slaughtered. It would be very difficult to label and identify in a way that people would trust.""
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  • by thewiz (24994) * on Monday November 30, @04:50PM (#30275304)

    "The big question is how could you guarantee you were eating artificial flesh rather than flesh from an animal that had been slaughtered. It would be very difficult to label and identify in a way that people would trust."

    Simple: Add a gene that would make the artificial meat a recognizable color.

    Instead of green eggs and ham we'll have green ham and eggs!

  • Cheers for PETA (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Grishnakh (216268) on Monday November 30, @04:50PM (#30275306)

    For once, they make a rational and decent statement! This is a big improvement over their stupid tirade about Obama swatting a housefly.

    The Vegetarian Society, OTOH, with their statement shows themselves to be still a bunch of extremists.

        • by jdgeorge (18767) on Monday November 30, @05:08PM (#30275638)

          Soylent Green, perhaps?

          PETA would be all over that, I am sure. As long as the "meat eaters" are processed first.

          From a health perspective, it would be better to eat vegetarians. Economically, vegetarians also have the benefit of being cheaper to produce, and their environmental cost is lower. I believe PETA's web site can provide helpful information supporting those points.

      • Re:Cheers for PETA (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Grishnakh (216268) on Monday November 30, @05:19PM (#30275810)

        It's quite possible that we could end up with an industry that is capable of producing flawless cuts of synthetic meat that cost much more than slaughtering the real thing.

        Don't you mean "much less"? It seems to me that producing meat in a factory, once the production processes are fine-tuned and volume increased, will cost far LESS than growing real animals. Less energy would be needed (you wouldn't have to grow a lot of food to feed animals), and the meat would be produced far more quickly, and most importantly, far less labor would be needed: no cowboys, farm hands, etc.

        Just like using mechanized agricultural equipment is far cheaper and more efficient than using slaves in farming, producing meat in factories promises to be cheaper and more efficient, and as a by-product, eliminating animal suffering as well.

        Also importantly, it'd be possible to create many types of meat cheaply that currently are very expensive due to small supply: filet minion cuts of beef, copper river salmon, veal, Kobe beef, etc. Think about how little filet minion there is per cow versus all the other cuts (and the waste products); never again would people have to eat "stew beef", as everyone could have filet minion, since it probably wouldn't cost any more to make than a synthetic version of a cheaper cut.

      • Re:Cheers for PETA (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Onymous Coward (97719) on Monday November 30, @06:46PM (#30277164) Homepage

        Arguably, PETA's position is that animals can experience suffering, and that ethical treatment means not raising them in horrific factory farms. I don't think that's warped.

        Do you like to torture dogs? If you really think they are non-sentient (i.e., they cannot experience suffering), then the answer is "Mu [wikipedia.org]. Your question does not make sense; dogs cannot be tortured." But, no, your response is quick denial. That presumes that animals can feel. Which means that ethics apply.

        Probably your real argument lies along the lines of "my pleasure in eating factory-raised animal meat is of greater value than the freedom from suffering the animals would have experienced". Which, really, is shitty. I did my thinking a while ago, and rather than rationalize up a bunch of specious arguments so that I could deludedly continue to enjoy eating meat, I opted to reduce my consumption.

        But this is why I'm pulling for vat meat. Because I like eating meat. I want to get back to eating pork, goddamnit, and I don't want to be a rationalizing fool or an asshole in doing it.

        "Anthropomorphizing". Really. As if our branch of apes were the only animals to ever feel anything.

  • by SlipperHat (1185737) on Monday November 30, @04:54PM (#30275382)

    claimed by KFC.

    (I'm joking)

  • by liquiddark (719647) on Monday November 30, @04:58PM (#30275448)
    Sounds like it's time to get in on the Long Pork market.
  • My Hope (Score:5, Funny)

    by kevinNCSU (1531307) on Monday November 30, @04:59PM (#30275492)
    My Hope is that this technology can one day provide us with cheap easily produced bacon-wrapped steak and other meats. My true hope is that some sort of animal will be produced that will grow in some sort of bacon wrapped configuration because I want to gaze upon this delicious animal frolicking mouth-waterlingly in an open field before I eat it.
  • Tasteless (Score:5, Informative)

    by ThreeGigs (239452) on Monday November 30, @05:00PM (#30275502)

    As a foodie, all I have to say is that a large part of the taste of a good steak comes from the FAT content of the meat, and that _pure_ 'cultivated' muscle tissue would make for a terrible steak, and an even worse hamburger.

    Until they manage to grow a well-marbled piece of meat, they won't be any better than a tofu burger.

    • Re:Tasteless (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Toze (1668155) on Monday November 30, @06:17PM (#30276786)
      I put to you that a fast-food chain, given the option to guarantee a steady supply of meat of identical quality, unaffected by drought and not "fed" (and therefore not really susceptible to BSE/etc), that takes less than two years to produce, whose cost is unaffected by fluctuations in the international grain or corn market, is likely to make the investment the second the twenty-year costs come even. I also put to you that fast food chain's burgers are flavoured less by meat and more by seasoning. As someone whose family already sold their beef ranch, and who consumes a lot of beef, I think this is a fantastic idea.
  • by coolmoose25 (1057210) on Monday November 30, @05:01PM (#30275518)
    From the article...

    "The cells were then incubated in a solution containing nutrients to encourage them to multiply indefinitely. This nutritious “broth” is derived from the blood products of animal foetuses, although the intention is to come up with a synthetic solution.

    So lets see... leaving aside for the moment blood borne illness issues, right now we'd have to grow the "artificial" meat using animal fetus blood... and where will we get all that animal fetus blood? Perhaps we can just raise animal fetuses? And how will the "synthetic" solution be made? From "synthetic" fetuses? Turtles all the way down, I think.

  • Exercizing Meat (Score:5, Interesting)

    by locallyunscene (1000523) on Monday November 30, @05:09PM (#30275640)
    Could it be contracted and expanded with electric shocks?

    It's amazing that a vat full of electrified meat is more appetizing than current factory farms...
  • by fahrbot-bot (874524) on Monday November 30, @05:11PM (#30275666)

    Described as soggy pork, researchers believe that it can be turned into something like steak if they can find a way to 'exercise' the muscle

    Better Off Ted [wikipedia.org] Episode 2: "Heroes": Phil and Lem, of Veridian Dynamics [veridiandynamics.com], try to grow cow-less meat... Reportedly, the meat currently tastes like "despair".

    Veridian Dynamics. We're the future of food, developing the next generation of food and food-like products. Tomatoes... the size of this baby, lemon-flavored fish, chicken that lay 16 eggs a day, which is a lot for a chicken, organic vegetables chock-full of antidepressants. At Veridian Dynamics, we can even make radishes so spicy that people can't eat them, but we're not, because people can't eat them. Veridian Dynamics. Food. Yum.

  • by mea37 (1201159) on Monday November 30, @05:18PM (#30275796)

    I find the phrasing pretty weak, about being hard to come up with a label "people" would trust. Sounds like hedging between saying "we don't want to trust the lable" but not wanting to call anyone a liar. People trust the label on organic foods; why would this be harder?

    To me labeling isn't the interesting question (but then, I'm no vegitarian). To me the interesting question is economic, and only if the economics make this product something uninteresting to me do the labeling issues even come into play. I can see three possible outcomes:

    1) This approach hits a dead end, and it turns out you just can't make high-quality meat that's fit for human consumption in a lab. The researchers seem convinced that won't happen, so moving on...

    2) The approach works, but the cost to make this meat exceeds the cost of doing it the old-fashioned way. I'm optimistic enough to doubt this; consider all of the energy costs involved in raising livestock. But who knows what will be required to make "good" artificial meat; maybe this is how it goes down. In that case, it won't add noticably to the food supply in an economic sense, and it becomes uninteresting to me. It remains intersting to PETA (since they don't want to eat "real" meat). There's niche demand for it, but it's more expensive than "real" meat - conditions that would make it possible to have mis-labeling if the food manufacturers were very careful about it.

    3) The approach works and produces meat more cheaply than you can raise "real" meat. This is the only case where I care about the idea, because in this case you actually increase the food supply; but in that case, nobody has a reason to mislabel a more expensive product and sell it to you as a less-expensive product. Even if they were just jerks who wanted to trick you into eating something you don't want to eat, they'd never be able to pull it off. (How do you hide a slaughtering operation from regulators?)

  • Weird thought (Score:4, Interesting)

    by WindBourne (631190) on Monday November 30, @05:22PM (#30275876) Journal
    Once this working, how soon will we see one of the processors start growing human cells? Seriously, it seems like Germany and other countries (including America) have a fetish these days for cannibalism. There would be no legal means of obtaining the meat from a real source, so no competition, though hopefully a SMALL market.
  • by jocabergs (1688456) on Monday November 30, @05:22PM (#30275884)
    The sustenance angle is all well and good; however, what I want to know is how long till the "real flesh" fleshlight?
  • by spidercoz (947220) on Monday November 30, @05:28PM (#30275978) Journal
    now we can fill in the rest of the Soylent rainbow

    save me some Soylent Purple
  • by plopez (54068) on Monday November 30, @05:30PM (#30276024)

    OK, how do you produce the equivalent of 1 million animals with one animal without violating the laws of thermodynamics?
    In order to get the same calories out you need to get the same, or more, calories in. For meat it is in the range of 10 times the calories from veggies (e.g. corn) to get one calorie of meat.

    They talk about a "meat broth". This is where the calories come from. No big change. In fact it may be worse since it is higher on the food chain, you have to first produce the meat for the broth then grow the "meat" stuff. And if they switch to veg. protein we would be better off eating soy or tempeh.

    I shudder to think of the meat rendering waste they will use for the broth. And if meat is still required to make meat, PETA just screwed up.

  • by StefanJ (88986) on Monday November 30, @05:32PM (#30276064) Homepage Journal

    Not "Soylent Green" . . . The Space Merchants.

    Pohl & Kornbluth's novel features a conflict between the integrated advertising/production complex that is stripping the world of resources and manipulating the populace and the benighted Consies (conservationists). The lead is kidnapped, stripped of his identity, and forced into a contract labor job. He works in an urban algea farm. Most of the goop isn't consumed by humans. It is processed into blood substitute that feeds Chicken Little, a giant pulsing wad of chicken heart cells. One of the workers slices off pieces which are packaged and shipped off for consumption.

    This, in a 1952 novel by WWII veterans who worked in the advertising industry.

    • by fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) on Monday November 30, @04:51PM (#30275328) Journal
      The obvious solution is some sort of horrid electrode array.

      Weak-kneed members of the public will have to be kept away from the giant culture vats, where hideous amorphous flesh lumps, studded with electrodes, thrash and strain; but they should be able to get exactly as much exercise as they need, without becoming excessively tough.
      • This kind of meet adds a whole new sub category for picky eaters to separate into. Those who eat meat from animals and those who eat meat from a factory lab.

        For those of us who already eat anything, this only matters if the production technique produces a slab of meat that tastes as good and costs less than the old fashioned method: Feeding a real pig on everything from corn and table scraps to bits of other pigs, then chopping his head off when he gets fat enough.

        BTW: They might have to get some nerve tissue into this lab meat before it can be exercised with electrical pulses (And yes. That dose sound like the best idea so far). Hmm... I wonder if I qualify for the job of "Experimental R&D Chef"

        BTW: If this proves viable, expect the patent to be bought by someone who will fight/bribe tooth and nail to have "Animal Slavery" outlawed, or to protect us from the dangers of our pork addiction.

        If you don't think that plausible consider what happened to hemp after nylon became viable.
        • by Hope Thelps (322083) on Monday November 30, @05:13PM (#30275722)

          This kind of meet adds a whole new sub category for picky eaters to separate into. Those who eat meat from animals and those who eat meat from a factory lab.

          I'm firmly in the dead-animals-only camp, not just for reasons of taste but of personal ethics. If people stop eating delicious animals then these animals will soon be endangered or even extinct. Protect biodiversity, insist on corpse-flesh.

          • by Nerdfest (867930) on Monday November 30, @05:23PM (#30275904)
            You're horrible. Meat is murder! Tasty, tasty murder.
          • by spidercoz (947220) on Monday November 30, @05:24PM (#30275922) Journal
            If people stop eating actual animals, we'll be overrun with chickens in a decade. Up to our friggin' ears I tells ya! We'll have to carve our way through with machetes while wearing goalie masks.
            • by Motard (1553251) on Monday November 30, @05:51PM (#30276400)

              If we get overrun with chickens we can send muscle powered robots out to kill them. The meat needs to be exercised, so let's put them in robots programmed to hunt down chickens. Then we can blame all the chicken deaths on the meat-bots and then, in turn, hunt down the meat-bots and eat them.

              But seriously, if the meat needs to be exercised, it seems obvious to have them do some sort of useful work. Of course, the best cuts of meat (the tenderloins and rib roasts that sit up high - which is where the phrase "eating high on the hog" comes from) do some, but not much work. So if the value of work that the muscle does offsets the price of the meat, we'd still have more expensive, tenderer cuts and tougher, harder working, but cheaper cuts.

                • by ceoyoyo (59147) on Monday November 30, @08:01PM (#30277938)

                  We have such a thing. They're called "cows."

                  Your scheme would require some method to digest the "food crud" (a digestive system) and turn it into simpler compounds (a digestive system), some way to get those compounds to the cells and take away and process waste products (circulatory, filtering and excretory systems) and something to control it all (a nervous system). Once you do all that, you might as well just use the cow.

                    • by nixed3 (1586839) on Monday November 30, @07:10PM (#30277438)
                      It's the second law of thermodynamics.

                      Any type of living tissue is ALWAYS using more free energy than it will produce.

                      It requires energy input to do any of its processes (pushing against chemical gradients, synthesizing complex organic molecules, etc). The net value of energy that you could collect through any type of muscle contraction is always less than the amount of energy you had to put in to cause that muscle to flex. Actin and myosin fibers sliding over each other require ATP to change their conformations properly, and ATP is created through biochemical metabolic pathways that are not 100% efficient. You always lose energy to heat. That's why you need to eat everyday.

                      It's the very essence of entropy.
            • by The Archon V2.0 (782634) on Monday November 30, @05:59PM (#30276546)

              If people stop eating actual animals, we'll be overrun with chickens in a decade. Up to our friggin' ears I tells ya! We'll have to carve our way through with machetes while wearing goalie masks.

              You say this like it's a bad thing.

          • by ChromeAeonium (1026952) on Monday November 30, @05:31PM (#30276038)

            There's a Mitchell & Webb for that. [youtube.com] Favorite line:"There might be a few polar bears left if more people wanted one for breakfast."

          • by physburn (1095481) on Monday November 30, @05:52PM (#30276430) Homepage Journal
            Only very few animal type make up most of human consumed meat, a few breeds of cattle, sheep, birds and pigs. These animals live they short lives in often rotten conditions, and a consume vast amounts of grains and wheat. If people didn't eat meat, so much more land would be available, that we could feed everyone and still have a lot more land to return to the wild, thereby increasing biodiversity. Synthetic meat will no doubt save on at least half the land needed to feed a populous, and might well led to entirely new favours and textures of food.

            ---

            Genetic Engineering [feeddistiller.com] Feed @ Feed Distiller [feeddistiller.com]

            • by Miamicanes (730264) on Monday November 30, @06:17PM (#30276782)

              > If people didn't eat meat, so much more land would be available, that we could feed everyone
              > and still have a lot more land to return to the wild, thereby increasing biodiversity.

              As a practical matter, real, honest-to-god oldschool "starving kids in ${poor country}" don't really exist anymore. At least, not for reasons that have anything whatsoever to do with arable land, drought, famine, or vermin. That's not to say that nobody is hungry, but most of THOSE hungry people will STILL go to bed hungry, even if every last acre of land and bushel of corn currently used to feed livestock ceases to be used for that purpose.

              In America, at least, farmland no longer needed for factory farming is more likely to end up with strip malls and McMansions on it than wildlife or anything normally associated with "biodiversity".

              In poor countries, animals will be grown as always. It might be cheaper to factory-produce ten million pounds of "cultured bacon" or "cultured beef" per week than to raise and slaughter the equivalent number of animals, but a poor family living in a hut somewhere isn't going to have the capital to go out and buy the necessary hardware. They're going to do what they always have... buy a few dozen newly-hatched chicks, a pig or two, and a cow. Less efficient, but equally less capital-intensive.

      • by Sporkinum (655143) on Monday November 30, @05:25PM (#30275932)

        If there is one thing I am sure of, it's that the Japanese will pervert that into porn.

      • by omarius (52253) on Monday November 30, @05:36PM (#30276140) Homepage Journal

        Weak-kneed members of the public will have to be kept away from the giant culture vats, where hideous amorphous flesh lumps, studded with electrodes, thrash and strain

        This is the best thinly-disguised metaquote about Slashdot I've seen in a long time.

      • by jbezorg (1263978) on Monday November 30, @05:44PM (#30276274)

        I just keep picturing the flesh walls in various first person shooters like Quake....

        Think I'll be buying a double barrel in the next five years...

    • by stoolpigeon (454276) * <bittercode@gmail> on Monday November 30, @04:53PM (#30275356) Homepage Journal

      The implications for space travel are cool. The implications for feeding people who currently live with hunger could be cool. I doubt they would ever completely do away with natural meat. It will probably always be available for those who can pay for it, but if this becomes cheaper and easier to make than raising animals I could see it becoming pretty big. I would think that if the process can be refined then we could get more meat with less environmental impact.

    • by vertinox (846076) on Monday November 30, @05:04PM (#30275578)

      Say goodbye to bacon pizzas, tasty and meaty hamburgers, hot dogs, a good grilled steak with french fries and most importantly, delicious food.

      No. It means 'real beef' made from free range cows will be bought at specialty stores for top dollar rather than this mass produced anti-biotic, hormoned, rotten grain fed crap they try to pass off as 'beef' now.

      Seriously... Have you ever bought and ate a real steak. No... Not the kind you buy at Western Corral, but the NY cut or Filet mignon aged beef marinated over 24 hours cooked by a professional with the right blend of herbs spices that melts in your mouth usually costing you over 30-40 or even $100 per plate (depending on where you go) combined with a matched set of alcohol. Mmmm... I'm getting hungry....

      Anyways... I really doubt you're going to be able to tell the difference between the current stock meat that goes into hotdogs and McDonald's burgers and the vat grown they are talking about.

      Now... I need that filet mignon.

      • by RManning (544016) on Monday November 30, @05:24PM (#30275912) Homepage

        ...but the NY cut or Filet mignon aged beef marinated over 24 hours cooked by a professional with the right blend of herbs spices...

        As a classically trained chef I can tell you that marinating filet mignon for 24 hours is a terribly bad idea. With such a small amount of connective tissue and fat it would be mushy and over seasoned. Although I do agree with the rest of your post. :)

    • by Hatta (162192) on Monday November 30, @05:22PM (#30275872) Journal

      This meat is from a artificial "muscle" that has never received any kind of exercise or strengthened itself.

      Isn't that a good thing? From Wikipedia:

      The fillet is the most tender cut of beef, and is the most expensive. The average steer or heifer provides no more than 4-6 pounds of fillet. Because the muscle is non-weight bearing, it receives very little exercise, which makes it tender.

        • by h4rm0ny (722443) <h4rm0ny AT tarddell DOT net> on Monday November 30, @05:27PM (#30275970) Journal

          Look at all the bullshit flying out of the rumor machine about genetically modified foods. How long before in-vitro meat also is a shadow government and/or evil corporation conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids?

          GMO crops have a number of problems, not least of which is that companies own the rights to them and engineer varieties that don't produce viable seed so that farmers using them have to re-buy seed stock every year. And they subsidy the seeds initially to get farmers moved on to them. The end game is that the food supply becomes monopolised. I shouldn't have to explain all this. Artificial meat will in all likelihood also be encumbered by patents, at least for a while. But it's not going to become an integral part of the food supply so it wont matter. It will (probably) be fine.

          Albeit gross. ;)

          • by MoonBuggy (611105) on Monday November 30, @05:56PM (#30276480) Homepage

            As I said in another post, biological systems are extremely complex; too complex to accurately copy, in many cases. A banana grown from seed in a lab will taste like a banana (obviously), but what about cells from a banana replicated on an artificial matrix? Reproducing the taste, texture, density, ripening characteristics and so on of the natural fruit takes more than just a mass of cells. When something as simple as an isomer of a chemical can alter how our senses react to it, keeping every factor identical to the natural system becomes very difficult.

            The real question is not whether this will be identical to natural meat, but how much it will differ and how detrimental (or indeed beneficial) those differences will be to the finished product.

    • by ShadowRangerRIT (1301549) on Monday November 30, @05:08PM (#30275636)
      It might be actually. Let's see:
      • It has no blood
      • It didn't need to be killed (rendering the rules of slaughter irrelevant)
      • It never had hooves, or any other body part that would be evaluated by the rules given in the Torah

      It's an odd scenario, and I suspect it would go different ways depending on the rabbi you ask. I suspect many rabbis would still forbid meat cloned from trafe animals, but I suspect vat-beef would be acceptable. But IANAR (I am not a rabbi) so I can't say for sure.

    • by Pranadevil2k (687232) on Monday November 30, @05:23PM (#30275898)

      Do you really think the farmers of America (or any other country with lobbyists, for that matter) are going to let this happen? They're going to demonize the shit out of lab meat and complain to congress that they derk er jerbs, Then they'll be made some protected industry or subsidized by the government or some equally retarded bullshit. As I understand it the meat industry in America has a LOT of political weight to throw around.

    • Re:Backfire on PETA (Score:5, Interesting)

      by greyhueofdoubt (1159527) on Monday November 30, @05:35PM (#30276116) Homepage Journal

      Cows will be around for a while. We've had several different milk substitutes around for many years and people still drink plain old milk. Work on artificial cheese has come about as far as artificial meat due to the complexities of trying to make soy proteins act like milk proteins.

      One thing that is forgotten (or ignored) when discussing land use with regards to cattle is that a large majority of the rangeland in the u.s. is unsuitable for farming. In addition, certain breeds of cow can fatten up on land that would starve another breed; proper herd management can allow the animals to fatten up without destroying the soil and plants. This is why it always irks me a bit to hear people talk about how one cow uses enough land to grow wheat for 40 people or some nonsense. Here, take these seeds- go try to grow them out west in the free ranges.

      This meat-in-a-vat project has a long way to go- they need to figure out how to tone the muscle, marble it with fat, configure the nutrients to make the meat not taste like a chewable vitamin, etc.

      There's a taco bell near here; in 5 years I'll go sample the vat-meat.

      -b

    • by Abreu (173023) on Monday November 30, @05:52PM (#30276432)

      Guess i'll order Tea, Earl Grey, hot to go with that meat then.

      You can order that. However, what you will get is a drink that is almost, but not entirely unlike tea...

One person's error is another person's data.