Hugh Pickens writes "Evidence that the smell of fear is real was uncovered by US scientists last year who studied the underarm secretions of 20 terrified novice skydivers and found that people appear to respond unconsciously to the sweat smell of a frightened person. Now the Telegraph reports that researchers hope a 'fear detector' will make it possible to identify individuals at check points who are up to no good. 'The challenge lies in the characterization and identification of the specific chemical that gives away the signature of human fear, especially the fear in relation to criminal acts,' says Professor Tong Tun at City University London, who leads the team developing security sensor systems that can detect the human fear pheromone. The project will look at potential obstacles to the device, such as the effects of perfume and the variances in pheromone production and if the initial 18-month feasibility study is successful, the first detectors could be developed in the next two to three years. 'I do not see any particular reason why similar sensor techniques cannot be expanded to identify human smells by race, age or gender to build a profile of a criminal during or after an incident,' Tong added."
While the first two are perhaps ambiguous (although why are you clicking unknown links at work?), with a name like nakedgirls4.jpg, you can't honestly have expected puppies and kittens, could you?
In away your right, from what I understand suicide bombers aren't even remotely afraid or even consider what they are doing to be anything but gods holy work. They probably wont even register in the slightest on these detectors. Whereas the people who are worried about receiving securities own special "enema" will be.
That is exactly what I would assume to be the case. Though there may be the fear of getting caught but... I doubt it. I think the false positive rate on anything like this is going to be through the roof.
Frankly, I will laugh and hoot the first time someone is awarded a huge sum because of the trauma they experienced when their panic disorder brings on the start of an attack and trips off the sensor. Because, as we all know, being suddenly pulled aside by a person in uniform is exactly the sort of thing that a person having an uncontrollable panic attack needs to calm them down. The sort of ham handed treatment typical of people who feel that someone paying them and putting them in a silly uniform gives them the right to harass other people is exactly the sort of thing that will really move their treatment forward.
Terrorism is a largely imaginary threat. Panic disorder is a real and debilitating disorder.
I am seriously against damaging real people to catch imaginary ones.
Terrorism is a real threat, it's just nowhere near as large a threat as some would make it out to be.
Yeah, well, we're talking about airport terrorist screening here. Terrorism on airplanes is pretty much over. The idea that we need to protect against guys getting on with box cutters is absolutely ludicrous. If anything, the shift in public perception of hijacking should have allowed a relaxing of security at airports, as the passengers will immediately hogtie, pummel, and sedate [wikipedia.org] any idiot dumb enough to try anything. Really, the only thing left to look out for is explosives, and that's a fairly simple chemistry problem. All this shit with taking off shoes, smelling us for fear, and peering through our clothes with machines is expensive security theater to mitigate a problem that's already been solved.
Are you kidding, that would be perfect. I mean really...watching DHS traumatize a bunch of already frightened travelers. Oh this is going to be awesome! Afraid of flying, afraid of traveling alone, claustrophobic, business travelers afraid of giving the presentation they are being sent to do, every week sees groups of people traveling to military bases to start basic training and I bet most of them are pretty afraid of how it may go. The possibilities are endless! This is going to be so awesome.
Especially when we arrest the arabic man who was just nervous about introducing his girlfriend to his parents.
Not while there are anti-anxiety drugs out there. What you will detect is a bunch of false positives that will keep you busy "detecting" while trucks loaded with bags of ammonium-nitrate explosive merrily (but calmly) pass you by.
Y'know.... a man can change the scent/pheromones his body gives off as easily as taking a drug like cyproterone [wikipedia.org]. The effects are temporary, but taking it in doses of about 50mg/day for a week before flying will have a big enough impact on the way your body produces pheromones that most people won't be able to read you properly. Stop taking the drug, and your body resumes normal operation...
Not suggesting, of course, that the terrorists would think to use a drug that, in people with a Y-chromosome, is usually used to treat transgenderism (and occasionally used to treat prostate cancer), but there are a very large number of drugs out there on the market, some available over the counter, that will affect your body's hormone balance, and will in turn affect the pheromones that your body produces. With so many ways to screw with the results available, I'd be very surprised if they could get such a system to work properly with an acceptable false positive/false negative rate....
Luckily airports are only ever full of relaxed, calm people who have no fear of flying whatsoever.
And being dragged off to be interrogated as a terrorist in some darkened back-room by three of four rent-a-thugs can only serve to ease their fears of flying...
All a fear detector detects is fear. Not intent or cause. Once they realize how many people are afraid in airports, they will quickly scrap this stupid idea.
All a fear detector detects is fear. Not intent or cause. Once they realize how many people are afraid in airports, they will quickly scrap this stupid idea.
Unfortunately that is probably exactly what they want.
This device is 'scientific proof' (AKA the computer said so) for arresting any one of 90% of the people there that they might want to arrest for some reason.
Think dousing rods here. It's an enforcement departments wet dream.
Once they realize how many people are afraid in airports, they will quickly scrap this stupid idea.
No, it doesn't work like that. More false positives and inconvenience are never a problem for these people. That just means they can apply for more stolen^H^H^H^H^H^H^H government money to deal with the extra people.
And there are people who can be calm under any circumstance. If you're full of opiates you don't care about (or fear) anything. Then there's "liquid courage" at the airport bar.
If you have a true religious fanatic, who is looking forward to dying for a cause he believes in -- and is looking forward to eternity in the paradise-of-his-choice for his actions, would he* still show physiological signs of fear?
* (I think statistically, "he" is a fair generalization here.)
No, but the guy who's afraid that such a person is on the flight will be. These persons will be detected and prevented from boarding, thus they avoid the imagined risk. It's added value for the neurotic!
> No, but the guy who's afraid that such a person is on the flight will be. These persons will be detected and prevented from boarding, thus they avoid the imagined risk. It's added value for the neurotic!
So lessen the odds by bringing a bomb onto the airplane. Do you know what the odds of TWO people bringing a bomb onto an airplane are?
And if you can get someone else you trust never to explode a bomb to bring one on an airplane, your flight will be even safer, because do you know how much rarer it will be for THREE people to bring a bomb onto an airplane?
Heck, have the captain, the co-pilot, the flight engineer, and the head stew also bring bombs on board. the probability of an EIGHTH person bringing a bomb on board is soooo small....
Now, where's my grant money?
(no, it's not original - it's adapted from Isaac Asimov's Joke Book - which is now probably on some sort of watch list because certain people with no sense of humor act like they have a baguette shoved up their ass, so don't trot down to your local library to read it)
People that are afraid of flying (or more accurately, crashing) will not need to worry about being picked out of the line for 'smelling suspiscious'! Not at all...
I'd be more alarmed to find someone who wasn't afraid to pass a checkpoint like this. How can you defend yourself from the allegation of some machine saying that you exhibit fear, and therefore is a terrorist? Furthermore, sociopaths and psychopaths will have little trouble passing these checkpoints.
So you'll get plenty of false positives, and plenty of false negatives.
Now the Telegraph reports that researchers hope a 'fear detector'' will make it possible to identify individuals at check points who are up to no good.
What about us law abiding citizens who are only afraid that our governments checkpoint workers are up to no good?
It is already a very real possibility for one of those people to make up any type of claim they want and detail you without letting you speak to a lawyer nor involve any courts. The reason given can be as ridiculous as 'He had terrorist looking hair' and still be valid. Plenty of legit reason to be afraid of those people.
Not to mention the fact I have no doubt at least a subset of these checkpoints will be at places where fear is natural (IE airports, fear of flying, or fear of falling out of the sky in a fireball)
Will deodorant and perfume be classified as a terrorist munition now?
The idea that there's a special chemical signal for "fear in relation to criminal acts" seems to come out of absolutely nowhere. Shouldn't there be some research into whether such a chemical signal exists before device development occurs? If it's not a magic detector of latent emotion or the cause of emotion so I'm not sure how much better it would be than noticing which people "look a bit afraid". It's going to be just as susceptible to picking up people who find flying difficult or are worried about being falsely accused of being a terrorist because they look funny.
"And in the news today, hundreds of teenage boys were arrested under the Prevention of Terrorism Act. They were later released after it turned out they were simply wearing Axe deodorant"
1. Get a degree in chemistry 2. Create artificial "fear hormone" 3. Bottle hormone in spray-flask 4. Spray "on your car" outside airport (and wash car with a piece of cloth) - make sure to spray passers-by 5. ??? 6. Profit!!!!
If this is really put into use I guarantee you that pranksters will be doing exactly that. They don't even care about the Profit!!!! They'll do it just for the lulz.
Great, just what we need, more profiling in place of real security. And just how is this supposed to work with psychopaths who do not experience the emotion of fear?
1: Develop System to detect when someone is "afraid"
2: Let citizens know that those who are "afraid" will be detected, detained and questioned for "citizen safety".
3: Citizens are now afraid to go through on the idea that maybe they will somehow set off the alarm.
Tons of false positives. After the first story of a false positive, some people become afraid of being a false positive as well. As more and more stories of false positives arise, more and more people become afraid and become more false positives.
The officers would only pull Arab-looking dudes, and many of those dudes might produce fear signals not because of terrorism, but because they're afraid of being treated badly at US airports like many of their brethren are.
A terrorist is going to be a LOT more afraid of getting on that plane and detonating a bomb on it,
And there is the fallacious assumption of your entire argument. You assume that there even are people trying to get on planes with bombs these days. Further more, you assume that there are enough of those people, in comparison to innocent travelers, to pose a significant risk. Honestly, how many airplane hijackings/terrorist acts have you heard of since 9/11? Any 'terrorist' (or activist or freedom fighter or whatever) that has any shred of intelligence whatsoever is not going to be trying to use airplanes for terror attacks after 9/11. It is unoriginal, and therefore risky. I would wager (no, its not fact, I know that) that the next significant report of terrorism (meaning X many people died) is going to come in some form of an attack that was completely unexpected and unaccounted for.
Beefing up airport security to extremely high levels (some security is necessary and should exist) is a very flashy attempt to close a barn door, lock it, nail-board it shut, and put a bomb shelter around it after the horse has already left.
Detects terrorists... (Score:5, Insightful)
... or people who are afraid of being suspected of terrorism
Re:Detects terrorists... (Score:5, Insightful)
Or people who are afraid of flying?
Parent
Re:Detects terrorists... (Score:5, Insightful)
Or people who are nervous about their big business meeting, or meeting their possible future in-laws, etc etc
Parent
Re:Detects terrorists... (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Detects terrorists... (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:Detects terrorists... (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:Detects terrorists... (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Detects terrorists... (Score:5, Funny)
Lesbians.
Parent
Re:Detects terrorists... (Score:5, Insightful)
In away your right, from what I understand suicide bombers aren't even remotely afraid or even consider what they are doing to be anything but gods holy work. They probably wont even register in the slightest on these detectors. Whereas the people who are worried about receiving securities own special "enema" will be.
Parent
Re:Detects terrorists... (Score:5, Insightful)
That is exactly what I would assume to be the case. Though there may be the fear of getting caught but... I doubt it. I think the false positive rate on anything like this is going to be through the roof.
Frankly, I will laugh and hoot the first time someone is awarded a huge sum because of the trauma they experienced when their panic disorder brings on the start of an attack and trips off the sensor. Because, as we all know, being suddenly pulled aside by a person in uniform is exactly the sort of thing that a person having an uncontrollable panic attack needs to calm them down. The sort of ham handed treatment typical of people who feel that someone paying them and putting them in a silly uniform gives them the right to harass other people is exactly the sort of thing that will really move their treatment forward.
Terrorism is a largely imaginary threat. Panic disorder is a real and debilitating disorder.
I am seriously against damaging real people to catch imaginary ones.
-Steve
Parent
Re:Detects terrorists... (Score:5, Insightful)
Terrorism is a real threat, it's just nowhere near as large a threat as some would make it out to be.
Yeah, well, we're talking about airport terrorist screening here. Terrorism on airplanes is pretty much over. The idea that we need to protect against guys getting on with box cutters is absolutely ludicrous. If anything, the shift in public perception of hijacking should have allowed a relaxing of security at airports, as the passengers will immediately hogtie, pummel, and sedate [wikipedia.org] any idiot dumb enough to try anything. Really, the only thing left to look out for is explosives, and that's a fairly simple chemistry problem. All this shit with taking off shoes, smelling us for fear, and peering through our clothes with machines is expensive security theater to mitigate a problem that's already been solved.
Parent
FDR said it. Or was it Churchill? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Detects terrorists... (Score:5, Insightful)
Especially when we arrest the arabic man who was just nervous about introducing his girlfriend to his parents.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
or young men who are afraid that their dreams for a virgin will be confused with somebody else's dreams of 71 virgins.
No... no, you won't... (Score:5, Insightful)
Detect terrorists, that is.
Not while there are anti-anxiety drugs out there.
What you will detect is a bunch of false positives that will keep you busy "detecting" while trucks loaded with bags of ammonium-nitrate explosive merrily (but calmly) pass you by.
Parent
Re:Detects terrorists... (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Detects everybody... (Score:4, Insightful)
A number of false positives reported in the media, and everybody will fear that machine...
Parent
Re:Detects terrorists... (Score:5, Informative)
Y'know.... a man can change the scent/pheromones his body gives off as easily as taking a drug like cyproterone [wikipedia.org]. The effects are temporary, but taking it in doses of about 50mg/day for a week before flying will have a big enough impact on the way your body produces pheromones that most people won't be able to read you properly. Stop taking the drug, and your body resumes normal operation...
Not suggesting, of course, that the terrorists would think to use a drug that, in people with a Y-chromosome, is usually used to treat transgenderism (and occasionally used to treat prostate cancer), but there are a very large number of drugs out there on the market, some available over the counter, that will affect your body's hormone balance, and will in turn affect the pheromones that your body produces. With so many ways to screw with the results available, I'd be very surprised if they could get such a system to work properly with an acceptable false positive/false negative rate....
Parent
Supercomputer involved to be named "Deep Sniff"? (Score:5, Insightful)
What if the fear they detect in you is the fear of missing your flight while you're held up trying to convince security that you aren't a threat?
The signature of human fear (Score:5, Interesting)
Luckily airports are only ever full of relaxed, calm people who have no fear of flying whatsoever.
And being dragged off to be interrogated as a terrorist in some darkened back-room by three of four rent-a-thugs can only serve to ease their fears of flying...
Re:The signature of human fear (Score:4, Insightful)
This is so true.
All a fear detector detects is fear. Not intent or cause. Once they realize how many people are afraid in airports, they will quickly scrap this stupid idea.
Parent
Re:The signature of human fear (Score:4, Insightful)
All a fear detector detects is fear. Not intent or cause. Once they realize how many people are afraid in airports, they will quickly scrap this stupid idea.
Unfortunately that is probably exactly what they want.
This device is 'scientific proof' (AKA the computer said so) for arresting any one of 90% of the people there that they might want to arrest for some reason.
Think dousing rods here. It's an enforcement departments wet dream.
Parent
Re:The signature of human fear (Score:5, Interesting)
Once they realize how many people are afraid in airports, they will quickly scrap this stupid idea.
No, it doesn't work like that. More false positives and inconvenience are never a problem for these people. That just means they can apply for more stolen^H^H^H^H^H^H^H government money to deal with the extra people.
Parent
Re:The signature of human fear (Score:4, Insightful)
Who said they'd be limited to airports?
will make it possible to identify individuals at check points
Parent
Re:The signature of human fear (Score:4, Insightful)
And there are people who can be calm under any circumstance. If you're full of opiates you don't care about (or fear) anything. Then there's "liquid courage" at the airport bar.
This smells like failure.
Parent
Yeah, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
* (I think statistically, "he" is a fair generalization here.)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
No, but the guy who's afraid that such a person is on the flight will be. These persons will be detected and prevented from boarding, thus they avoid the imagined risk. It's added value for the neurotic!
Re:Yeah, but... (Score:5, Funny)
So lessen the odds by bringing a bomb onto the airplane. Do you know what the odds of TWO people bringing a bomb onto an airplane are?
And if you can get someone else you trust never to explode a bomb to bring one on an airplane, your flight will be even safer, because do you know how much rarer it will be for THREE people to bring a bomb onto an airplane?
Heck, have the captain, the co-pilot, the flight engineer, and the head stew also bring bombs on board. the probability of an EIGHTH person bringing a bomb on board is soooo small ....
Now, where's my grant money?
(no, it's not original - it's adapted from Isaac Asimov's Joke Book - which is now probably on some sort of watch list because certain people with no sense of humor act like they have a baguette shoved up their ass, so don't trot down to your local library to read it)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
But worry not! (Score:4, Insightful)
People that are afraid of flying (or more accurately, crashing) will not need to worry about being picked out of the line for 'smelling suspiscious'! Not at all...
Simple solution (Score:3, Informative)
You'll also get the whole set of seats to yourself.
Up to no good? (Score:5, Interesting)
I'd be more alarmed to find someone who wasn't afraid to pass a checkpoint like this. How can you defend yourself from the allegation of some machine saying that you exhibit fear, and therefore is a terrorist? Furthermore, sociopaths and psychopaths will have little trouble passing these checkpoints.
So you'll get plenty of false positives, and plenty of false negatives.
Oops (Score:5, Insightful)
Now the Telegraph reports that researchers hope a 'fear detector'' will make it possible to identify individuals at check points who are up to no good.
What about us law abiding citizens who are only afraid that our governments checkpoint workers are up to no good?
It is already a very real possibility for one of those people to make up any type of claim they want and detail you without letting you speak to a lawyer nor involve any courts.
The reason given can be as ridiculous as 'He had terrorist looking hair' and still be valid. Plenty of legit reason to be afraid of those people.
Not to mention the fact I have no doubt at least a subset of these checkpoints will be at places where fear is natural (IE airports, fear of flying, or fear of falling out of the sky in a fireball)
Will deodorant and perfume be classified as a terrorist munition now?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Will deodorant and perfume be classified as a terrorist munition now?
They already are.
Have you tried carring deodorant and perfume in your hand luggage recently?
Fearolin? Criminofearolin? (Score:5, Insightful)
The idea that there's a special chemical signal for "fear in relation to criminal acts" seems to come out of absolutely nowhere. Shouldn't there be some research into whether such a chemical signal exists before device development occurs? If it's not a magic detector of latent emotion or the cause of emotion so I'm not sure how much better it would be than noticing which people "look a bit afraid". It's going to be just as susceptible to picking up people who find flying difficult or are worried about being falsely accused of being a terrorist because they look funny.
Underarms?! (Score:5, Funny)
"And in the news today, hundreds of teenage boys were arrested under the Prevention of Terrorism Act. They were later released after it turned out they were simply wearing Axe deodorant"
The only thing we have to fear... (Score:5, Insightful)
Profit!!! (Score:4, Funny)
2. Create artificial "fear hormone"
3. Bottle hormone in spray-flask
4. Spray "on your car" outside airport (and wash car with a piece of cloth) - make sure to spray passers-by
5. ???
6. Profit!!!!
Re:Profit!!! (Score:4, Insightful)
If this is really put into use I guarantee you that pranksters will be doing exactly that. They don't even care about the Profit!!!! They'll do it just for the lulz.
Parent
Re:Profit!!! (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
More profiling... (Score:3, Insightful)
Great, just what we need, more profiling in place of real security. And just how is this supposed to work with psychopaths who do not experience the emotion of fear?
Positive Feedback Loop? (Score:5, Insightful)
1: Develop System to detect when someone is "afraid"
2: Let citizens know that those who are "afraid" will be detected, detained and questioned for "citizen safety".
3: Citizens are now afraid to go through on the idea that maybe they will somehow set off the alarm.
Tons of false positives. After the first story of a false positive, some people become afraid of being a false positive as well. As more and more stories of false positives arise, more and more people become afraid and become more false positives.
Doubleplusgood? (Score:5, Insightful)
Isn't this a step towards thought crime?
"He's scared, arrest him!"
Let's Be Serious (Score:5, Interesting)
I must not fear... (Score:5, Funny)
... fear is the mind killer, fear is the little death that brings airport security...
Great (Score:5, Interesting)
I have been suffering on anxiety disorder now for the last 15 years, does that mean I will get an anal search every time I cross the border now?
Know what's a bigger problem than terrorism? (Score:5, Insightful)
Last time I checked... (Score:5, Insightful)
Being afraid isn't a crime, nor is it probable cause for a search.
-jcr
Re:Terrorists will just learn to be fearless (Score:4, Insightful)
It should stop the rogue unprepared school shooting type person.
Or cause them to shoot the guard manning it. I've never felt 'safer' in a building with a metal detector. I've certainly felt less free.
Parent
Re:Love these comments... (Score:4, Insightful)
A terrorist is going to be a LOT more afraid of getting on that plane and detonating a bomb on it,
And there is the fallacious assumption of your entire argument. You assume that there even are people trying to get on planes with bombs these days. Further more, you assume that there are enough of those people, in comparison to innocent travelers, to pose a significant risk. Honestly, how many airplane hijackings/terrorist acts have you heard of since 9/11? Any 'terrorist' (or activist or freedom fighter or whatever) that has any shred of intelligence whatsoever is not going to be trying to use airplanes for terror attacks after 9/11. It is unoriginal, and therefore risky. I would wager (no, its not fact, I know that) that the next significant report of terrorism (meaning X many people died) is going to come in some form of an attack that was completely unexpected and unaccounted for.
Beefing up airport security to extremely high levels (some security is necessary and should exist) is a very flashy attempt to close a barn door, lock it, nail-board it shut, and put a bomb shelter around it after the horse has already left.
Parent