Plowing Carbon Into the Fields 467
OzPeter writes "A wheat farmer in Australia has eliminated adding fertilizer to his crop by the simple process of injecting the cooled diesel exhaust of his modified tractor into the ground when the wheat is being sown. In doing so he eliminates releasing carbon into the atmosphere and at the same time saves himself up to $500,000 (AUD) that would have been required to fertilize his 3,900 hectares in the traditional way. Yet his crop yields over the last two years have been at least on par with his best yields since 2001. The technique was developed by a Canadian, Gary Lewis of Bio Agtive, and is currently in trial at 100 farms around the world."
What (Score:2, Insightful)
Not that blowing it into the atmosphere is much better, but doesn't diesel exhaust contain all sorts of nasty toxins? If he's polluting his ground water then in a few years he'll have more to worry about than his dying crops..
Diesel exhaust in your bread? (Score:1, Insightful)
Given what's in diesel exhaust [wikipedia.org], I don't think I want any of that winding up in my bread.
Typical (Score:4, Insightful)
So few facts, so many opinions.
Making Local Fertalizer (Score:4, Insightful)
I think the argument to this mechanism is that he is providing an extra carbon source for the nitrogen fixers natively present in the soil. These bacteria convert N2 into ammonia, which can then be absorbed by the plants. Essentially drives the nitrogen cycle more quickly than would occur otherwise. Alternatives in place are to do alternate plantings with plants that have rhizobiums such as legumes.
As to the people saying this is not carbon neutral, I think you should read up on the Haber-bosch process - how ammonia is made for fertilizer. Unlike microbes which can do this at room temperature and pressure, it takes something like 400 C at several times Earth's pressure. This is a very expensive process, and cutting down ammonia production will save a lot of energy.
Re:Diesel exhaust in your bread? (Score:4, Insightful)
Considering this stuff normally goes into the air and can be brought back down by rainfall... it probably is already in your bread.
Re:Diesel exhaust in your bread? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:It can't possibly be enough... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Overpopulation (Score:4, Insightful)
Anti-immigration laws are like the war on drugs: neither one works. You may not realize it, but after drugs, one of the best sources of income for organized crime is human-trafficking: sneaking poor people into rich countries. If you continue to support anti-immigration laws, you will continue to support violence, human exploitation, and all the other problems that come with organized crime. There is no way to stop it. The only thing to do is legalize it.
All you need to do to end it is require proof of citizenship(that's actaully checked out) to get hired in this country. Then charge companies who don't comply with rico laws (sieze their assests etc) . This will never happen since companies make too much money off the backs of illegal immigrants working for less than minimum wage.
Re:Diesel exhaust in your bread? (Score:3, Insightful)
Read the thread to see why your complaint about nitrogen isn't valid. You can't make up for your slight knowledge of the subject by more aggressively declaring yourself correct.
Re:Wealth and Population: Article by "The Economis (Score:1, Insightful)
Why don't you respond to some of the people who responded to you instead of looking up statistics that vaguely back up an argument from a tangential hypothesis.
Re:Overpopulation (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Wealth and Population: Article by "The Economis (Score:3, Insightful)
I seem to recall something like 2/3 of the Earth's land cannot currently be used for crops because of salt. Enter desalination(plenty of water on the Earth) and genetic engineering.
If that problem is solved we could theoretically reach 18 billion people or more. We could also cultivate and utilize the oceans better. I do not think we are anywhere near shaping the Earth's ecosystem to completely benefit us.
After that, on to the stars!
PS Ant's global biomass is between 900 million and 9 billion tonnes. Human's global biomass is a mere 100 million tonnes. That's a lot of ants and I don't think they're worried. source [wikipedia.org]
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:It is funny (Score:4, Insightful)
um no. But it does seem "these days" that more and more people who, despite obviously knowing fuck all about science or how evidence bound scientific inquiry functions, nonetheless feel entitled to pontificate endlessly on whatever heavily scientifically related subject they like in total blissful, laughable ignorance.
Re:Ok, so how is this not BS? (Score:5, Insightful)
I too am calling bullshit on this entire idea. There is simply not enough exhaust to do anything like what was claimed.
No matter how you work the chemical reactions, the amount of diesel required to plow a field combined with the air of combustion will never equal the amount of CO2 and nitrogen found in the proper amount of fertilizer. By sheer weight of the components alone you can deduce this is nonsense.
Plants do consume CO2. Merely plowing under his crop, or the chaff thereof would sequester come CO2, perhaps as long as the next growing season.
Sooner or later you have to add something back in, or plant some other crop that fixes nitrogen or you deplete the soil. His experiment hasn't run long enough to even account for changes in weather, let alone long term damage to the fields.
Won't do (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Overpopulation (Score:5, Insightful)
Here's how it works: all the family pools their money together to make the downpayment. The price varies depending on where they come from. Mexico will run around $2000 to $5000 but a trip from China will cost $20,000. Of course a Chinese peasant can't pay all that at once, so they come to America, and work, and pay it off while they are here. Of course it takes time, but they pay it off, otherwise something might happen to their family back at home.
So yes, poor people are the ones who get snuck into the US. Middle class/rich people usually have no desire to come here, at least not the ones I've talked to.
I don't buy it (Score:4, Insightful)
Doing the math, he's claiming that he saves on about 400 tons of fertilizer for a 3900 hectare farm by pumping roughly 4,000 tons of diesel exhaust into the soil. At a glance, most of this is water, carbon dioxide, and carbon monoxide. There's a little bit of nitrogen oxides and sulfur. But I don't see the advantage. I'm wondering, if he's getting some nitrogen and other elements from the death of necessary fauna in his soil. That is, he might be getting a couple of good years of crops by killing off most of his earthworms, nematodes, and other animals in the soil who would be poisoned by excess CO2 and CO levels.
Re:I suspect bad journalism (Score:4, Insightful)
I believe that the previous poster may have made the same brilliant intellectual leap that I independently made, and went to the Company's web page.
There you will find a video:
http://www.bioagtive.com/index.php?p=0&videoID=852 [bioagtive.com]
that is full of fascinating information about the process, and explains it much more coherently than 4th person version of the events that we get from Slashdot's summary.
Re:Earth: What Are We Saving It For? (Score:4, Insightful)
Do you really want to spend the last years of your life in an old farts' home, watching Coronation Street, waiting to die? Fuck that!
If that's your idea of "retirement", just pull the f*ing plug now and spare us your waste of oxygen.
Actually that's your idea of retirement, it certainly doesn't have to be that way and thats not just a question of money. It's not a bad thing to allow people to work beyond pensionable age if they wish too maybe volunteer work could be better than shifts in Macdonald's, finance shouldn't be the reason. Thats a key point at that age you should be able to decide what you want to do with your life and watching coronation st isn't an aim.
I've come close to dying twice this year I got out of hospital on Friday and the last thing I want is to die anytime soon. I have a lot more living to do yet. There is no good reason why I can't be doing pretty much the same range of activities in my 60's and beyond that I am capable of now. I'm a bit more focused on living and getting healthier knowing that I am only alive today thanks to modern medicine. Thirty years ago I would have died about 4 months ago.
Odds of my making it to retirement are a bit piss poor to be honest, however there is no reason to quit just yet.
Quit smoking eat less, fats especially , keep active mentally and physically and then you might get the choice of sitting in your slippers watching coronation st - you probably still wouldn't want to.
It's strange to me that 90% of the things we can buy to eat today damage us so that by the time we hit retirement age we are about ready to croak. You don't think about this till the damage is done usually but it doesn't have to be this way. It is possible to make healthier choices and thats whats going to save you from Coronation st.
Re:Overpopulation (Score:3, Insightful)
People have 14 kids because that way at least some of them are likely to survive to continue the line and take care of their parents in their old age. Population growth usually levels off once medicine reaches the level where surviving to adulthood is the rule rather than exception, and social services provide for you whether you have children or not.
Some do, some don't. Religions typically reflect the values of the society that spawned them, and some of the older ones have grown more civilized with time. There are people who wish to oppress others in the name of their God, but they'd simply use a different excuse if religion was not available ("one race, one nation, one leader" / "will of the proletariat" / "taxes are robbery" / etc).
Re:Overpopulation (Score:2, Insightful)
Oh, how I love social engineering. "If you continue to support anti-immigration laws;" or calling pro abortion "Pro choice"
Just as pro-lifers support choice (i.e., making the choice before conception; at least use the pill or a condom; all we ask is you don't murder a baby for the sake of convenience), the people against illegal aliens are only asking people who are emigrating to their lands to immigrate to our land legally, and to embrace OUR language and OUR flag, and carry their own weight.
If I wanted to emigrate to say, Mexico, do you really think that they would allow me to get free health care, work under the table, get free education in their colleges, and to give me legal and government services forms in American English? Germany? Sweden, or even Saudi Arabia (they probably wouldn't let me drive or work there, let alone provide forms in English).
I am certainly not against immigration. If it weren't for immigrations, I wouldn't be here. My ancestors immigrated from Ireland, Italy, Poland, and Germany. The difference between then and now is they immigrated LEGALLY. They worked hard to carve out a living in the land of opportunity. They didn't come here illegally, demanding free health care, free food, free schooling, and free cars (yes it has gone as far as that in some cases!). They worked hard to make it here.
I have friends who are here from Costa Rica, Venezuela, China, and India who entered legally. They are having a heck of a time getting their green cards. They pay into social security even though they can't use it, they learned to speak, read, and write English fluently, and otherwise do things in a legal manner, and yet they keep getting the runaround. They want to become naturalized citizens and keep hitting roadblocks, and they don't get ANYTHING for free; if they end up out of work and poor enough to need welfare, they'll get deported. They are all very pro-American (except one Chinese friend, until after China took down one of America's surveillance plane, he eventually realized it's not we who are out to get them. He is now very pro america, has his green card, and is on his way toward naturalization).
Meanwhile, people who enter here illegally go right on welfare or social security, get free education, free food, free housing, have their forms translated to English, and in some cases have even gotten free cars from welfare programs, and they don't pay any taxes. They fly the flag of their countries of origin, and hate the American flag. It is disgusting.
There is a difference between being against illegal aliens and being against immigration. I haven't heard of anyone except the clan being against immigration (which is extreme hypocrisy; if it weren't for immigration "aryan" types wouldn't be here at all; it would be all red-skinned natives - who themselves supposedly "immigrated" here from Russia so for the KKK to refer to any color/creed an infection on this land is completely ridiculous. Their racist outlooks are the infection). I've heard only of extreme leftist liberals being pro-illegal-alien.
Illegal Alien: that is the correct term. Those people trespassing here, being here illegally, are NOT immigrants. They are invaders. They are here to cheat the system. They are here to get a free ride on welfare, work under the table, and take what they earned under the table back home to live like royalty when they go back home. They have no interest in being American, earning their keep, or contributing back to the system they are leaching off of.
What we need to do is give INS and the police the power they once had to enforce immigration laws; pack illegal aliens into crates and air-drop them back into their countries of origin. Treat them like the criminals they are, giving asylum(amnesty) only to those who are here to escape persecution or to those who are defecting from enemy states.
Re:Overpopulation (Score:4, Insightful)
Dude, I'm French and even by trying the legal way (visa lottery) I didn't get anything. Even if I had the chance to be picked by the computer, it would have taken two years before I would have been allowed to move to the USA. Fortunately being European if I want to move to a decent country I can just move to some place like Ireland (which I did).
Mexicans aren't even eligible to that visa lottery thing. That doesn't leave them a lot of solutions, unless they've got close family in the USA. Immigration law in the USA is completely absurd, and it makes illegals because it leaves so many people without any legal solution.
Think about it, a hundred years ago all you had to do was show up at Ellis Island and if you didn't have tuberculosis you were in. Now you can be Australian or English and if you manage to get in you live under the permanent threat of deportation for no good reason.
Re:Overpopulation (Score:3, Insightful)
Perhaps Islam is, and Catholicism was, and maybe Mormon is still just a little bit, but if you read the New Testament you'll see that the first person who saw Christ resurrected was a woman. What is notable about that? A woman was not considered to be a credible witness in Roman-occupied Israel.If someone were to make up the story, he'd have chosen a man to be the witness, not a woman.
Also, it's worth noting that the feminist movement here in America didn't start out as a man-hating movement. It started out as a Christian organization founded by mainstream Protestants pushing for voting rights and for a little respect. That's about it. It has long since been corrupted into a almost-strictly-lesbian "we don't need men except as sperm donors" movement that, like affirmative action does with racism, only serves to perpetuate problems rather than resolve them. Women CAN earn the same as men, but if a woman decides to raise a child, well, that woman just decided to take weeks to years out of work. This reduces her reliability and experience compared to her competition (either childless women or men) and thus should reduce the amount of compensation she should be entitled to, unless she is willing to hop jobs rather than proclaim "entitlement" and demand the same raises everyone else who didn't take time off received.
The sad reality is women have to choose between child rearing or their career if maintaining the same pay level as a man is her goal; OR telecommute RELIABLY and have at least a moderate amount of "face time" at the office, OR start a home business so there are no significant gaps in experience.
Me? I have no choice to focus on my career. I'm intersexed and sterile, so there isn't any child rearing in my future at all, barring miracles or modern science being able to regenerate organs. It's simply not going to happen, so when I am working for "the man" there are no gaps in my experience, so I get paid on par with peers. *shrug* YMMV, batteries not included, and all that.
It all comes down to what everyone seems to shun nowadays: personal respnsibility and merit. Everyone "feels" "entitled" to a pony, or a big screen TV, or a McMansion, or a BMW, Caddie, Porsche or Lexus. Sorry, life doesn't and shouldn't work like that. You can't make both childen and career your priority. If you try to, you'll be both a lousy provider and a lousy parent, in that you'll be more distant from your children than you'd like. Pay should be awarded based on merit, not based on gender, color, religion, sexual orientation, or based on the company one keeps or what secret societies one belongs to.
On a tangent: There is a lot to be said for the "nuclear" family where the mom is the homemaker and the father is the sole provider, but there's a lot more going for more traditional families where the grandparents and aunts and uncles (an entire clan) lives and works together, helping everyone out, where the man might be making a very good living working for someone, and the mother might have a part-to-full-time business. Unfortunately, modern society has driven housing costs out of sight, women have been pressured to work (even when they would prefer to be full-time "homemakers"), and usually have to in order to afford third-to-half million dollar homes in most densely-populated states. Also, modern society has discouraged clans, painting them as antiquated and outmoded ways of living, whereas it is actually more efficient and ideal, aside from some, uh, "privacy" issues.
Re:What (Score:3, Insightful)
I can't believe this unsupported crap got modded up. Citation Needed.