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Comments: 449 +- Science: Bad Driving May Have Genetic Basis on Thursday October 29, @12:11PM
Posted
by
samzenpus
on Thursday October 29, @12:11PM
from the born-to-run-off-the-road dept.
from the born-to-run-off-the-road dept.
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science
Serenissima writes "Bad drivers may in part have their genes to blame, suggests a new study by UC Irvine neuroscientists. People with a particular gene variant performed more than 20 percent worse on a driving test than people without it — and a follow-up test a few days later yielded similar results. About 30 percent of Americans have the variant. 'These people make more errors from the get-go, and they forget more of what they learned after time away,' said Dr. Steven Cramer, neurology associate professor and senior author of the study published recently in the journal Cerebral Cortex."
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My daughter is a lousy driver (Score:5, Funny)
Re:My daughter is a lousy driver (Score:5, Insightful)
She gets it from her mother.
But I bet you taught her to drive.
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Re:My daughter is a lousy driver (Score:5, Funny)
(her mother, OTOH)
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Re:My daughter is a lousy driver (Score:5, Insightful)
I have the same problem. My wife has a serious problem with judging time and distance. She knows this and overcompensates by being way too careful. The end result is no accidents. But she does frequently piss of people behind her. My daughter (now 17, just had her first accident on friday) has the same time and distance judgment problem. Only she's an indestructible teenager who's personal life is so important, she needs red and blue lights on her car. After nearly two years of me trying to teach my daughter how to drive, i still don't like to be in the car with her. Her friends, sisters, and younger brother all refuse to ride with her. It's that scary. And she still isn't ready for the snow we'll get next month. :-/
Then why do you let her drive? I mean, really? You're her FATHER , and you won't tell her "no, you can't drive"? I think you're failing as a parent if you can't restrain her bad behavior.
If she is going to insist, and you're going to let her, make her pay for all her own expenses - insurance, maintenance, gas, etc.
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Re:My daughter is a lousy driver (Score:4, Funny)
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Chromosomes? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Chromosomes? (Score:5, Funny)
Yep, and it is exacerbated by the adjacent gene that makes them yammer incessantly on a cell phone while driving the kids around in a huge SUV.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
"People with a particular gene variant performed more than 20 percent worse on a driving test" You mean the double-X chromosome?
Although I'm a man, I'd have to admit I've seen some pretty bad driving from people with a Y chromosome too. In fact, very smart people can be very bad drivers (e.g. von Neumann's corner [anecdotage.com] was named after a notoriously bad driver, John von Neumann [wikipedia.org] who you might have heard about).
Re:Chromosomes? (Score:4, Insightful)
A lot of comments (and tags) to that effect on this story.
Remember that story about sexism in the F/OSS world a few weeks back? [slashdot.org] Remember how many people denied that such a thing could exist? Here's your proof.
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Re: Bad Driving (Score:4, Funny)
I kid, I kid!
First... define worse... (Score:5, Interesting)
Some of the best drivers I know are the ones who can't obey speed limits, make illegal turns, and ultimately are deemed as "bad" drivers. However these same folks maintain superior control of their vehicles and never get into accidents unless they are caused by another driver's lack of control.
So, perhaps this gene is more of a "disrespect for authority" gene?
Re:First... define worse... (Score:5, Interesting)
Wow, defining the problem! I wonder if the researchers thought of such a novel concept?
If only there was some sort of written description of the research, longer than a summary, that might shed light on if they independently came to the same conclusion that problem-definition might be worthwhile and, if so, what they defined as "better" and "worse"...
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
"However these same folks maintain superior control of their vehicles and never get into accidents unless they are caused by another driver's lack of control."
Do you realize that traffic rules were designed _specifically_ to minimize the impact of drivers' mistakes? And that if your 'best drivers' actually obeyed the laws, they'd have most probably avoided accidents. Even the ones caused by other drivers.
Re:First... define worse... (Score:5, Insightful)
If you cannot maintain your speed at the posted limit, and have no respect for when a U-Turn is allowed or appropriate, than you are not maintaining "superior control" of your vehicle. You're just trying to justify your asshattery. (Yes, we all got that you're talking about youself.)
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Re:First... define worse... (Score:4, Insightful)
I hate to respond to this kind of stuff but I will.
To make an analogy, imagine that traffic laws are like government mandated school curriculum, they are designed to be of the most benefit to the majority, they are by no means designed to define driving ability.
There are people who shouldn't drive at all, and there are those who are capable of driving in much more extreme situations.
Well I agree that disregarding traffic laws is not a 'good' thing, a persons ability to conform to them will never dictate to me their ability to drive.
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predictable behavior in cooperative hazards (Score:5, Insightful)
roads aren't a career. They aren't a place where some should excel at the expense of others. Since you are sharing the road with others, if your behavior isn't predictable then it is bad behavior. Say for example a champion race-car driver decided that, to prove how great a driver he was, he would drive on the wrong side of a freeway. Would that not be "bad driving?" I don't care how good your skill at steering and breaking might be, driving is a social contract to act within an established set of norms. A surgeon can have extreme skill at controlling how deeply they cut, and otherwise have perfect hand-eye coordination, but if that perfection is applied to cutting out part of your liver when you're supposed to be having a brain tumor removed, then completely independent of any amount of hand-eye coordination and grace - that person is a bad surgeon.
Same as a driver. If you aren't driving in a way that is predictable, and aren't driving the way you should be, then you are a bad driver. I don't care if you can do a controlled 360 on the road in front of your house - if you actually do it, then you are a bad driver. period.
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Re:First... define worse... (Score:4, Interesting)
To make an analogy, imagine that traffic laws are like government mandated school curriculum, they are designed to be of the most benefit to the majority, they are by no means designed to define driving ability.
Bad analogy.
Traffic laws are like the code of conduct within a classroom. They prohibit someone from sitting in the back of the classroom and screaming at the top of their lungs while pelting the other students with rotten vegetables. The screaming/pelting kid may very well learn great like that, but they're a terrible distraction to everyone else and degrade the learning experience for the rest of the classroom.
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Re: (Score:3, Funny)
So it is like when a very poor driver is driving down the road...
Re:First... define worse... (Score:5, Interesting)
Uh, no. Many of the rules, like speed limits, are there to limit the damage that bad drivers can do when they screw up. Some bad drivers break the rules. Some good drivers break the rules. Bad drivers get in accidents no matter if they obey the rules or not. They just kill fewer people if they happen to be driving slow at the time.
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Some of the best drivers I know are the ones who can't obey speed limits, make illegal turns, and ultimately are deemed as "bad" drivers. However these same folks maintain superior control of their vehicles and never get into accidents unless they are caused by another driver's lack of control.
If you cannot maintain your speed at the posted limit, and have no respect for when a U-Turn is allowed or appropriate, than you are not maintaining "superior control" of your vehicle. You're just trying to justify your asshattery. (Yes, we all got that you're talking about youself.)
No, you're confounding skills with ethics here. A hacker can both be skilled and be a blackhat; by the same token, a driver can be skilled and be an asshat. (Of course there is not necessarily always a positive correlation - cf. script-kiddies)
Re:First... define worse... (Score:4, Interesting)
So, perhaps this gene is more of a "delusion of competence [sfgate.com]" gene?
FTFY
Parent
Re: (Score:3)
That sound more like making excuses for your bad driving. Part of you're driving ability isn't just your own control of the car. But how to interact with other drivers. Speeding doing illegal turns etc... Puts the other driver in a state that they don't know what your are doing. So they don't know thus more chance you will get in an accident. For example tailgaters, when you are tailgating someone you don't know what they are going to do. Will they shift lanes without looking hitting the other car (as t
Re: (Score:3)
Make an illegal turn on a blind corner and you might find yourself in a lot more accidents caused by 'another driver's lack of control'.
I'm not disagreeing with your notion that there are better drivers than others. And that these drivers are safer at high speeds than low speeds but something like making a uturn where it is illegal is annoying because as a conscientious driver I like to maximize my energy checking spots where people should be coming from not some cowboy who just made an illegal u-turn when
Re:First... define worse... (Score:5, Insightful)
A good driver avoids most accidents even if they are caused by another driver's lack of control. I can't tell you how many times I've anticipated a dumbass move by some driver, pedestrian, or cyclist and preempted a collision.
You talk about "superior control" over the vehicle as if that's the hard part. That hard part is all the other people on the road. A good driver doesn't collide with things, period.
Parent
Re:First... define worse... (Score:5, Insightful)
Some of the best drivers I know are the ones who can't obey speed limits, make illegal turns, and ultimately are deemed as "bad" drivers. However these same folks maintain superior control of their vehicles and never get into accidents unless they are caused by another driver's lack of control.
So, perhaps this gene is more of a "disrespect for authority" gene?
Well, I'm not certain that this study is actually testing driving ability... Seems more to be about their memory than their ability to drive...
But, regardless of how well you handle a vehicle, if you can't follow the speed limits and whatnot - you are a bad driver.
The speed limits, turn restrictions, signage, whatever is all there for a reason. It's to create a safe and predictable driving environment for everyone. Generally speaking, you aren't the only person on the road. A speed limit of 30 mph isn't there to make it take longer for you to get to work - it's there to ensure that everyone is traveling at roughly 30 mph. Which makes it possible, for example, to enter and exit the flow of traffic from parking lots relatively easily.
Sure, you may be able to handle your vehicle well... But if you're speeding up the road at 60 mph, in a 30 mph zone, somebody else may very well try to pull out in front of you and cause an accident.
Surprises cause accidents. Traffic laws and signage are there to reduce surprises. If you cannot follow the laws and signage, you are creating surprises. You may be able to deal with the surprises, or you may not - but that isn't the big problem. The big problem is how all the other drivers are going to deal with your surprises.
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Re:First... define worse... (Score:5, Insightful)
They are testing the memory of the track. Take one of the failures out and put him in a real car with genuine feedback, real handling, g-forces, etc... then see how he performs. Or simply change the track every time its driven.
A good driver by their standards will know the turn is coming and compensate before they see it.
A good driver by my standards will know how to control their vehicle when presented with an unexpected turn or a kid on a bike shooting out between parked cars.
Essentially they created a test to see the effect of this gene on practiced behaviors... but it didn't test driving at all. Few accidents are the result of a driver forgetting how to drive, they are the result of a driver not knowing how to really drive in the first place (ie how to respond to the unexpected, or letting themselves be distracted and/or complacent).
They already knew this gene effected memory, all this test did is test memory by having them repeat the same course over and over again. Change the course regularly and the results may change, those with great memories may not be able to adapt to changes/suprises.
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I've always thought defensive driving (the ability to anticipate potentially dangerous situations and react in such a way as to mitigate or eliminate the danger) was the hallmark of good driving. The ability to react to surprise is also a trait of good drivers, I grant, but, as they say, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Re:First... define worse... (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure... but memorizing your route home from work does nothing to make you a good driver.
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Re:First... define worse... (Score:5, Insightful)
And based on my own experience as a driver and a witness of others' driving, the level of comfort memorization encourages may be one of the more dangerous parts of driving.
You get into a habit of thinking things like:
There are never any cars around this corner
I never see kids on this street
Everybody drives 40mph on this street (posted speed of 25mph)
All my closest calls as a driver have happened when you get in autopilot mode when driving in familiar streets.
Contrast this to driving in a storm, in heavy traffic, in an unfamiliar area. Statistically I'm probably much more likely to get in an accident in the latter case, but I'm definitely paying much more attention and am being a much better driver.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Then why did the same results happen on the first trial, when neither group had seen the track before?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Few accidents are the result of a driver forgetting how to drive, they are the result of a driver not knowing how to really drive in the first place
This is a false dichotomy. Accidents don't happen in a vacuum. They're usually comprised of several factors. Aggressive driving is one factor, but by itself, it's not sufficient to cause an accident. An unexpected event like a pedestrian runnig out is a second factor, but also not necessarily enough to cause an accident, even when said pedestrian runs out into an aggressive driver. And a driver who forgets how to drive, even momentarily, won't necessarily cause an accident, even with any one of the above fa
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
No... they tested memory. They even brought the group back for a second session to see who remembered the track and who didn't.
A great driver is one who responds appropriately to the unexpected and maintains focus on driving amidst distraction.
Think about it this way, play your favorite racing game on a new track... if you stay on the track the first time through it, it's not because your bad at the game its because the game makes it impossible to be successful unless you either a. drive crazy slow or b.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Insurance companies jsut want extra money.
While that is quite likely the case, the insurance companies put a lot of effort and expense into the risk models, and it's unlikely that those models are far wrong. People with lots of tickets are statistically more likely to get into accidents. If they weren't, some insurance company would figure it out, and price their insurance lower to get more money, because, as you note, they want more money.
The same logic holds for under 25 males, people with bad credit, etc. These are used to price your insurance
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Just an FYI, it's called an accident for a reason,
My daughter recently completed a driver's ed class, which I thought was very well done. One of the things she was taught is that in driving, there is no such thing as an accident. You are referring to a collision. Good drivers are those that do not participate in, cause, or contribute to collisions. The mindset that they are trying to impart is that for the most part, collisions are caused by someone. They are not random events or acts of god.
Another way for insurance companies to screw us (Score:5, Interesting)
Wouldn't surprise me if this does turn out to be true and not just a statistical anomaly then insurance companies will probably ask for a genetic test if they can get away with it and raise the premium if you have this genetic marker.
Different take (Score:4, Interesting)
Officer, it was not my bad driving, but my genes.
If you write me a ticket, I will sue under the Americans With Disabilities Act.
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Watch Gattaca and get back with us. I would argue that a responsible society would provide extra help to such people, rather than punishing them for something that they have no control over.
I could see this as true (Score:4, Interesting)
Why is this surprising? (Score:4, Insightful)
We know that other tasks involving acquired skills are influenced by natural ability. Intelligence is partly inherited, athletic ability is partly inherited, etc. It should come as no surprise that a task requiring some cognitive skill (paying attention to the right things) and physical skill (good steering, etc) is also influenced by genetics.
Starting off with a poor hand genetically just means you have to work harder. Some athletes have to work harder than others to get peak performance. Some students have to work harder than others to ace their exams. And some drivers need to work harder than others to drive well.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Perhaps not surprising, but the news is not that they've discovered the fact that traits are inherited through genetic markers. Good ol' Chuck Darwin had that one figured a while back.
The news is that they've possibly identified one of the specific markers, and found a potential correlation between that and a specific subset of skills.
In addition to the "blue eyes" and "red hair" gene, we may have found the "hold my beer and watch this" gene.
If you mean ... (Score:5, Funny)
Indications other than driving (Score:3, Interesting)
Obviously driving a car, truck, golf cart, etc. requires fine and gross motor skills. So if this gene is present does it affect only driving skills or other areas where fine and gross motor skills come into play? I'd like to see, for instance, if the 30% or so of people with this gene can't play video games on modern systems because they forget what the buttons do or just can't get the jumps, dives, runs, etc. down. It might also be interesting to see if neurosurgeons, sculptors, or sports players have this gene or not.
Driving While Asian (Score:3, Funny)
Yeah, I went there.
Sample size issue? (Score:5, Insightful)
"The driving test was taken by 29 people - 22 without the gene variant and seven with it."
Ummm... Sounds like interesting research, but until your sample size increases a bit, you don't got nothing.
Re:Sample size issue? (Score:5, Insightful)
I suppose you've looked over their statistics, then? Or maybe you're just completely ignorant of behavioral sciences where a significantly larger sample size usually indicates poor design, lack of understanding of statistics, or a fishing expedition?
Many kinds of experiments require large sample sizes, either because of small effects or large amounts of variance in the population being studied. But not everything needs a large sample. And using a large sample where a small one will do is just wasteful.
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No surprise here (Score:4, Funny)
Insurance companies must be salivating (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:New Jersey Drivers (Score:5, Informative)
Hmm? According to 2005 data from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), New Jersey is actually one of the safest states to drive in [businessweek.com]. New Jersey is number 10 on this list, behind Utah, Iowa, Georgia, Kentucky,Idaho, Nebraska,West Virginia, Indiana, and Maine.
Also interesting, but not directly related to New Jersey drivers, is an Allstate study [allstatenewsroom.com] of driver safety by city.
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Re: (Score:3)
And unfortunately your kids will probably drive just like you, adding to the hammerhead population that refuses to drive in the right lane.
Re:New Jersey Drivers (Score:4, Informative)
Please, that's the least of your problems. Last time I visited everyone was on the wrong fucking side of the road!
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