anglico writes 'Starting in 2010, an international crew of six will simulate a 520-day round-trip to Mars, including a 30-day stay on the martian surface. In reality, they will live and work in a sealed facility in Moscow, Russia, to investigate the psychological and medical aspects of a long-duration space mission. ESA is looking for European volunteers to take part.'
Remember the days of 300/1200 baud dialup? That Pamela Anderson download would be halfway thru her chest and you would already be done.
And I know I'm dating myself (besides in *that* sense). Not because of the 300 baud reference, but by referring to Pam Anderson as fap-worthy material.
ESA is looking for European volunteers to take part.
WTF!?
If I were going on a trip to Mars, the last thing I'd take along would be some techno-listening Eurotrash with unreasonable demands for prompt health care and a propensity for labor unrest. Hell, with their thin figures and tight jeans, some Eurotrashtronaut might get sucked out of the spacecraft through some any ol' tiny tear in the outer wall.
Don't they need any good old corn-fed Midwestern American boys on this mission? Sign me up.
ESA is looking for European volunteers to take part.
WTF!?
If I were going on a trip to Mars, the last thing I'd take along would be some techno-listening Eurotrash with unreasonable demands for prompt health care and a propensity for labor unrest.
Yeah, but if we shut the worst of them in a small room together, then the world becomes a better place for the next year and a half.
See: Biodome. The failed movie or the failed experiment.
Biodome was a different kind of experiment. There, they were trying to create a self-sustaining Martian colony. The Russians are conducting a much simpler experiment...stick a bunch of people into a metal tube for year and a half and see if they go looney or not. From the article, it doesn't mention if the mission has to live on the same water or not, or a slowly dwindling food supply. But, that is probably secondary to the just-as-dangerous mental effects isolation being targeted for study.
Biodome wasn't good science, if I can remember correctly. Beneath a very reasonable idea (trying to create a self-contained artificial biosphere that can support humans) there was a lot of hippie crap thrown in; things about trying to replicate every different ecosystem found on earth, and having rock pools and stuff. Thing is, the whole grow-plants-to-let-the-humans-breathe idea was well explored by the Soviets decades earlier - rather than piss around creating a Zen garden they just used boring old algae beds. And they, AFAIK, didn't need an injection of oxygen half way through the experiment.
On the other hand, a mars colony is basacly going to be a hamster cage for people. Imagine living with just four plastic walls and an algae tank to look at. It would be like work without internet. I would rather have rock pools and some place to pretend I was on earth.
I would rather have rock pools and some place to pretend I was on earth.
Fuck pretending about Earth. I would rather have the masturbation pod. Some sort of self-sustaining lubricant producing plant, mood lighting, and all the latest porn transmitted from Earth. Give the women a Sybian or some equivalent shit too.
I guarantee you an hour a day in one of THOSE pods and I just might not mind looking at bunch of plastic walls and algae tanks. Or to put it another way... without the masturbation pods I guarantee you they will be sending up a 2nd mission to find out what went wrong with the 1st mission.
Some sort of self-sustaining lubricant producing plant, mood lighting, and all the latest porn transmitted from Earth. Give the women a Sybian or some equivalent shit too.
Only on Slashdot would someone trying to use sex to stave off boredom, in a mixed gender pool, suggest everyone be given masterbatory aides.
And only on Slashdot would it be modded insightful.
See: Biodome. The failed movie or the failed experiment.
Biosphere 2 was designed by ecological mystics with a minimum of engineering and scientific support to meet specific environmental, ecological, philosophical, and quasi-religious goals. This lead them to make many costly errors;
They tried to leap from a laboratory bench experiment to a full scale operating facility, which lead to many problems.
They were well along in construction before the discovered the windows wouldn't work - resulting a lengthy and expensive delay to develop new windows.
Late in construction they discovered that they hadn't accounted for changes in atmospheric volume due to temperature changes - resulting in the (expensive) last minute addition of the 'lungs'.
They never ran a small scale simulation with animals and insects, or a small scale simulation long enough to allow plants to spread - resulting in the discovery of multiple nasty interactions between the various ecological elements inside Biosphere.
Because of the lengthy delays in construction and the lack of scientific and engineering rigor in the design of the 'experiment' they rushed to perform the first lockout mission - without properly testing and commissioning the facility.
The 'Bionauts' were chosen on the basis of political and philosophical correctness and acceptability rather than being a properly selected and trained team.
Etc... etc... etc..
In short, Biosphere 2 isn't a valid standard to judge such experiments by. Sadly, it was such a highly visible flop and so few people are aware of the reasons why, they've poisoned the well for decades and rendered it difficult for actual scientists and engineers to gain funding and acceptance for such work. As shown by your comment...
I figure it this way. They need to pass a lot of downtime. Let them play a MMORPG. Then if your really creative you can let them farm gold and pay for the trip by selling the gold and characters they create.
Well I am kind of serious about the first part. Its going to take something highly addictive to keep them occupied during the trip there and back. Certain types of games would do it just fine. If you could find a way of combining learning into them all the better, but in some ways mindless entertainment may be key.
The lag is going to be murder once they get a good distance to Mars.
It should be noted that NASA has long had a problem with the reality of space flight vs. their selection process. Their astronaut selection process tends to weed out all but the most motivated adventurous go-getters who tend to go crazy when asked to do basically nothing for 6 months.
Their astronaut selection process tends to weed out all but the most motivated adventurous go-getters who tend to go crazy when asked to do basically nothing for 6 months.
Amen! As I understand it the first astronauts were test pilots, familiar with confined cockpits, long periods of total boredom, and incredible risk of a human roasting giant fireball. Why they ever went away from those men with way too much bravado, I'll never know.
"We're going to lock you in this metal box, blast it into outer space on a giant pile of explosives, and then you'll drink your own urine for 6 months and crash-land in the ocean."
I think that kind of requires an adventurous go-getter attitude.
Why are they going to do nothing? Do people on the ISS sit around and do nothing while they are there?
They would most certainly be running experiments for the duration of the trip, both directions. It would waste a lot of time if they just sit there, and all the energy expended to get the thing up there and moving on its way could at least be useful to some experiments.
Don't think of it as sending a ship to Mars. Think of it as sending the ISS to Mars. There would likely be plenty to do.
It's kinda hard to play real-time interactive games when you're dealing with round-trip signal times of up to 40 minutes... I think that would knock out MMO games. Now something like split-screen Halo, on the other hand, doesn't require that, but is more likely to forment anger amongst the crew.
On the gripping hand, the old naval solution would probably work best. That is, keep the crew occupied with enough busywork that they don't have time to piss each other off. This was the standard practice on old sailing men of war; you needed large crews for combat/damage repair and for certain shipkeeping tasks, but otherwise they sat around with little to do. Hence, rituals of inspection, holystoning the deck, etc. This is also why modern crew-reduction initiatives on ships can backfire; smaller crews have a harder time performing damage control than larger ones.
Anyways, for a Mars mission you need a lot of crew for the surface exploration in order to get as much data as possible; the cruise phases (for the most part) have little for them to do. They'd likely be occoupied running different experiments and performing regular maintenance, and exercising (a lot) rather than just being couch kudzu.
It's kinda hard to play real-time interactive games when you're dealing with round-trip signal times of up to 40 minutes... I think that would knock out MMO games.
Posting to slashdot would still work well enough, although you'd cop more -1 redundants than normal. Otherwise I guess you could play single player games. Like System Shock, or Doom for example. What could possibly go wrong?
The duration of the mission is the problem. Hormones will cause problems over an extended period with a small unisex crew, or a mixed crew of any size.
For example, with one third of its crew female, the USS Acadia acquired the sobriquet "the love boat". In a single deployment to the Persian Gulf in late 1990, 36 members of its crew got pregnant.
Okay, this might sound a little naive, but why can't they use people who have long prison sentences but are not severely criminal? The data gained concerning space travel could allow these people to contribute to society when otherwise they would just be rotting in a cell.
Okay, this might sound a little naive, but why can't they use people who have long prison sentences but are not severely criminal? The data gained concerning space travel could allow these people to contribute to society when otherwise they would just be rotting in a cell.
Two things. First, what information would these prisoners provide? I'm reminded of a novel I read where secret US agencies engaged in medical experiments to develop yet another supersoldier. They were excited at getting a real doctor as a test subject. The reason was because they got someone who could contribute and understand what was going on with his own body rather than "It hurts, Doc."
Second, prisoners aren't the people that would be sent to Mars for a real mission. One of the things that will be te
People act like sticking these people in an isolated chamber for a few hundred days is a new problem, it isn't. Sailors have been doing it for centuries.
If you want to study the effects further, give these people all a free 600 day cruise around the open sea. They're going to get horny, they're going to get angry, and they're going to get bored. That is what will happen.
Put a server on board with some quake and a few other video games. Give them all a bunch of contraceptives.
Wouldn't the psychological effects of knowing that you're taking part in a (mostly meaningless) test negate any actual behavioral data collected?
If I was given the opportunity to walk on Mars, I'd consent to outright torture for 6 months.
If I was placed in isolation, and told that at the end, I'd have gobs of paperwork and medical exams to complete, my psychological perspective would be rather different. I'd get very bored very quickly.
On the flipside, if I became severely ill in space, I'd (rightfully) panic, while I'd be more comfortable in an isolated trial, knowing that the full facilities of Moscow's health system were at my disposal, a few blocks away.
Also don't forget the physiological effects of zero-gravity and increased radiation in space that you wouldn't experience on earth.
They get volunteers from America, Russia, and Poland. The Americans insist on taking 100 cases of junk food, the Russians insist on taking 100 cases of vodka, and the Poles insist on taking 100 cases of cigarettes. After 520 days, the American emerge even fatter than before. The Russians emerge slightly soused, but still in good spirits. Lastly, the poles emerge, looking shaky and sullen, and the first words out of their mouths are, "Has anybody here got a match?"
The last time a woman volunteered for such an experiment [msn.com], she encountered lots of sexual harrasment from the Russian crew members.
Less than a month into her run, Lapierre suddenly encountered serious problems. She was twice forcibly French-kissed by the Russian team commander, and soon afterwards witnessed a 10-minute-long fight between two Russians that left blood spattered on the walls.
She insisted that the controversial kisses were not merely “friendly celebrations” and that she had vigorously told the Russian to back off. She quoted him as saying, "We should try kissing, I haven't been smoking for six months. Then we can kiss after the mission and compare it. Let's do the experiment now."
Lapierre dismissed the notion that the Russian thought his actions were normal and acceptable. "Why did he try to pull me out of sight of the camera?" she asked.
When Lapierre's team first entered the modules, Dr. Valery Gushin, the scientific coordinator of the project, voiced attitude that in hindsight could have been seen as warnings about the problem. "Men, they have some expectations from women," he told a Canadian television team. "They want them to be more like women, not just partners. At least Russians do."
Following the incident, Gushin blamed Lapierre. His official report, which Lapierre has seen, saud she had "ruined the mission, the atmosphere, by refusing to be kissed." She should have been taken out, he wrote, and he also insisted that the foreigners had caused the fight.
Russia has conducted shorter simulations in the past and has seen firsthand the issues that arise, including sexual harassment. In an eight-month IMBP simulation in 2000, a Russian man twice tried to kiss a Canadian female researcher after two other Russians had gotten into a bloody brawl.
Wouldn't that suck? Spending 8 months in transit to Mars only to find a crowd waiting for you once you land: "yeah, we actually invented this really cool new engine like the week after you guys took off."
In Soviet Russia... (Score:5, Funny)
Mars goes to you!
Okay, now that's out of the way, only intelligent discussion from here on out. Come on Slashdot, I know you can do it.
Make a porno (Score:5, Funny)
I say they should make a porno, actually. Who doesn't want to do what sex on other planets will be like?
Granted, many of us here on /. don't even know what sex on this planet is like... :)
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Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Of course we know what sex is like.
It involves a high-speed internet connection and a hand, right?
Re:Make a porno (Score:4, Funny)
And thank goodness for broadband.
Remember the days of 300/1200 baud dialup? That Pamela Anderson download would be halfway thru her chest and you would already be done.
And I know I'm dating myself (besides in *that* sense). Not because of the 300 baud reference, but by referring to Pam Anderson as fap-worthy material.
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Re:Make a porno (Score:4, Funny)
If the Martian were underage it could bring a new meaning to "illegal alien"
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Re:In Soviet Russia... (Score:4, Insightful)
only intelligent discussion from here on out.
Yeah, like that's going to happen...
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Europeans only? (Score:5, Funny)
ESA is looking for European volunteers to take part.
WTF!?
If I were going on a trip to Mars, the last thing I'd take along would be some techno-listening Eurotrash with unreasonable demands for prompt health care and a propensity for labor unrest. Hell, with their thin figures and tight jeans, some Eurotrashtronaut might get sucked out of the spacecraft through some any ol' tiny tear in the outer wall.
Don't they need any good old corn-fed Midwestern American boys on this mission? Sign me up.
Parent
Re:Europeans only? (Score:5, Funny)
They don't have storage room for the sheep :-(
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Re:Europeans only? (Score:5, Funny)
ESA is looking for European volunteers to take part.
WTF!?
If I were going on a trip to Mars, the last thing I'd take along would be some techno-listening Eurotrash with unreasonable demands for prompt health care and a propensity for labor unrest.
Yeah, but if we shut the worst of them in a small room together, then the world becomes a better place for the next year and a half.
Parent
Re:Europeans only? (Score:5, Funny)
Well, I didn't mean this as flamebait OR insightful... just funny.
I guess looking for humor on Slashdot is like looking for life on Mars ;-)
Parent
Re:Europeans only? (Score:5, Informative)
Since 'funny' mods don't give karma, the person who modded you insightful was probably just restoring your karma after the flamebait mod.
Parent
This is not new (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:This is not new (Score:4, Funny)
See: Biodome. The failed movie or the failed experiment.
Biodome was a different kind of experiment. There, they were trying to create a self-sustaining Martian colony. The Russians are conducting a much simpler experiment...stick a bunch of people into a metal tube for year and a half and see if they go looney or not. From the article, it doesn't mention if the mission has to live on the same water or not, or a slowly dwindling food supply. But, that is probably secondary to the just-as-dangerous mental effects isolation being targeted for study.
Parent
Re:This is not new (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:This is not new (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re:This is not new (Score:5, Insightful)
Fuck pretending about Earth. I would rather have the masturbation pod. Some sort of self-sustaining lubricant producing plant, mood lighting, and all the latest porn transmitted from Earth. Give the women a Sybian or some equivalent shit too.
I guarantee you an hour a day in one of THOSE pods and I just might not mind looking at bunch of plastic walls and algae tanks. Or to put it another way... without the masturbation pods I guarantee you they will be sending up a 2nd mission to find out what went wrong with the 1st mission.
Parent
Re:This is not new (Score:5, Funny)
Only on Slashdot would someone trying to use sex to stave off boredom, in a mixed gender pool, suggest everyone be given masterbatory aides.
And only on Slashdot would it be modded insightful.
Parent
Re:This is not new (Score:5, Interesting)
The Soviets were no Nazi's when it came to record keeping. In fact it was so bad people would disappear from photographs!
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Re:This is not new (Score:5, Insightful)
An experiment is only a failure if you don't learn anything from it.
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Re:This is not new (Score:5, Insightful)
Biosphere 2 was designed by ecological mystics with a minimum of engineering and scientific support to meet specific environmental, ecological, philosophical, and quasi-religious goals. This lead them to make many costly errors;
Etc... etc... etc..
In short, Biosphere 2 isn't a valid standard to judge such experiments by. Sadly, it was such a highly visible flop and so few people are aware of the reasons why, they've poisoned the well for decades and rendered it difficult for actual scientists and engineers to gain funding and acceptance for such work. As shown by your comment...
Parent
Let them play WOW (Score:5, Insightful)
I figure it this way. They need to pass a lot of downtime. Let them play a MMORPG. Then if your really creative you can let them farm gold and pay for the trip by selling the gold and characters they create.
Well I am kind of serious about the first part. Its going to take something highly addictive to keep them occupied during the trip there and back. Certain types of games would do it just fine. If you could find a way of combining learning into them all the better, but in some ways mindless entertainment may be key.
Re:Let them play WOW (Score:5, Informative)
It should be noted that NASA has long had a problem with the reality of space flight vs. their selection process. Their astronaut selection process tends to weed out all but the most motivated adventurous go-getters who tend to go crazy when asked to do basically nothing for 6 months.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Amen! As I understand it the first astronauts were test pilots, familiar with confined cockpits, long periods of total boredom, and incredible risk of a human roasting giant fireball. Why they ever went away from those men with way too much bravado, I'll never know.
Re:Let them play WOW (Score:5, Funny)
"We're going to lock you in this metal box, blast it into outer space on a giant pile of explosives, and then you'll drink your own urine for 6 months and crash-land in the ocean."
I think that kind of requires an adventurous go-getter attitude.
-- 77IM
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Re:Let them play WOW (Score:5, Funny)
This is Slashdot. If sitting on my ass for 6 months is an adventure, then I'm Buzz Lightyear.
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Re:Let them play WOW (Score:4, Insightful)
Why are they going to do nothing? Do people on the ISS sit around and do nothing while they are there?
They would most certainly be running experiments for the duration of the trip, both directions. It would waste a lot of time if they just sit there, and all the energy expended to get the thing up there and moving on its way could at least be useful to some experiments.
Don't think of it as sending a ship to Mars. Think of it as sending the ISS to Mars. There would likely be plenty to do.
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Re:Let them play WOW (Score:5, Insightful)
It's kinda hard to play real-time interactive games when you're dealing with round-trip signal times of up to 40 minutes... I think that would knock out MMO games. Now something like split-screen Halo, on the other hand, doesn't require that, but is more likely to forment anger amongst the crew.
On the gripping hand, the old naval solution would probably work best. That is, keep the crew occupied with enough busywork that they don't have time to piss each other off. This was the standard practice on old sailing men of war; you needed large crews for combat/damage repair and for certain shipkeeping tasks, but otherwise they sat around with little to do. Hence, rituals of inspection, holystoning the deck, etc. This is also why modern crew-reduction initiatives on ships can backfire; smaller crews have a harder time performing damage control than larger ones.
Anyways, for a Mars mission you need a lot of crew for the surface exploration in order to get as much data as possible; the cruise phases (for the most part) have little for them to do. They'd likely be occoupied running different experiments and performing regular maintenance, and exercising (a lot) rather than just being couch kudzu.
Parent
Let them play slashdot (Score:4, Funny)
Posting to slashdot would still work well enough, although you'd cop more -1 redundants than normal. Otherwise I guess you could play single player games. Like System Shock, or Doom for example. What could possibly go wrong?
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Re:Let them play WOW (Score:5, Funny)
What's the current world record for the longest game of Monopoly?
Microsoft? no wait... US Steal??? damnit.. I'm no good at pop quiz's...
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Re:Let them play WOW (Score:5, Insightful)
Speaking from experience as a submariner, I must disagree.
Among other differences are the rather large size of the boat's crew (comparatively speaking) and the mission duration.
For a submarine, four months is a long voyage.
And there aren't enough ways to divvy up six guys so that you can rearrange things so that two guys getting on each other's nerves can be kept apart.
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Re:Let them play WOW (Score:5, Interesting)
For example, with one third of its crew female, the USS Acadia acquired the sobriquet "the love boat". In a single deployment to the Persian Gulf in late 1990, 36 members of its crew got pregnant.
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Re:Let them play WOW (Score:5, Funny)
The freaky part is that only 28 members of the crew were female.
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Day 4 (Score:5, Funny)
Mars needs women!
Volunteers (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Okay, this might sound a little naive, but why can't they use people who have long prison sentences but are not severely criminal? The data gained concerning space travel could allow these people to contribute to society when otherwise they would just be rotting in a cell.
Two things. First, what information would these prisoners provide? I'm reminded of a novel I read where secret US agencies engaged in medical experiments to develop yet another supersoldier. They were excited at getting a real doctor as a test subject. The reason was because they got someone who could contribute and understand what was going on with his own body rather than "It hurts, Doc."
Second, prisoners aren't the people that would be sent to Mars for a real mission. One of the things that will be te
One can only hope (Score:5, Funny)
that one of the volunteers spends each of those 520 days asking, "Are we there yet?!" over and over...
I volunteer one group of idle people... (Score:3, Insightful)
The United States Congress.
We won't miss them, really. How many more new laws do we need? Seriously.
More like 39 days just to get to Mars.. (Score:3, Informative)
Been There, done that. (Score:5, Insightful)
People act like sticking these people in an isolated chamber for a few hundred days is a new problem, it isn't. Sailors have been doing it for centuries.
If you want to study the effects further, give these people all a free 600 day cruise around the open sea. They're going to get horny, they're going to get angry, and they're going to get bored. That is what will happen.
Put a server on board with some quake and a few other video games. Give them all a bunch of contraceptives.
It will be fine. Trust me.
Irrelevant (Score:5, Interesting)
Wouldn't the psychological effects of knowing that you're taking part in a (mostly meaningless) test negate any actual behavioral data collected?
If I was given the opportunity to walk on Mars, I'd consent to outright torture for 6 months.
If I was placed in isolation, and told that at the end, I'd have gobs of paperwork and medical exams to complete, my psychological perspective would be rather different. I'd get very bored very quickly.
On the flipside, if I became severely ill in space, I'd (rightfully) panic, while I'd be more comfortable in an isolated trial, knowing that the full facilities of Moscow's health system were at my disposal, a few blocks away.
Also don't forget the physiological effects of zero-gravity and increased radiation in space that you wouldn't experience on earth.
Don't tell me, I've heard this one before! (Score:5, Funny)
Russians respecting woman? (Score:5, Interesting)
Less than a month into her run, Lapierre suddenly encountered serious problems. She was twice forcibly French-kissed by the Russian team commander, and soon afterwards witnessed a 10-minute-long fight between two Russians that left blood spattered on the walls.
She insisted that the controversial kisses were not merely “friendly celebrations” and that she had vigorously told the Russian to back off. She quoted him as saying, "We should try kissing, I haven't been smoking for six months. Then we can kiss after the mission and compare it. Let's do the experiment now."
Lapierre dismissed the notion that the Russian thought his actions were normal and acceptable. "Why did he try to pull me out of sight of the camera?" she asked.
When Lapierre's team first entered the modules, Dr. Valery Gushin, the scientific coordinator of the project, voiced attitude that in hindsight could have been seen as warnings about the problem. "Men, they have some expectations from women," he told a Canadian television team. "They want them to be more like women, not just partners. At least Russians do."
Following the incident, Gushin blamed Lapierre. His official report, which Lapierre has seen, saud she had "ruined the mission, the atmosphere, by refusing to be kissed." She should have been taken out, he wrote, and he also insisted that the foreigners had caused the fight.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:520 people, that's a big ship (Score:5, Funny)
Obviously you're reading this from the perspective of a project manager.
"If it takes 520 days for 6 people to get to Mars, we'll get 520 people and make it in 6 days!"
Parent
Re:520 people, that's a big ship (Score:4, Informative)
Russia has conducted shorter simulations in the past and has seen firsthand the issues that arise, including sexual harassment. In an eight-month IMBP simulation in 2000, a Russian man twice tried to kiss a Canadian female researcher after two other Russians had gotten into a bloody brawl.
Parent
Re:520 people, that's a big ship (Score:5, Funny)
So what you're saying is that past research has found that Russians shouldn't go to Mars?
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Re: (Score:3, Funny)
so close
yet so very far.
Re:I hear Pauly Shore's available (Score:4, Funny)
For a one-way mission?
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Re:It will start with only 6 people... (Score:5, Funny)
Lesbian crews. More specifically, HOT lesbian crews.
Video cameras everywhere, the trip would pay for itself.
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Re:why 520 days?! (Score:5, Funny)
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