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Comments: 251 +- Science: Giant Ribbon Discovered At Edge of Solar System on Saturday October 17, @04:42PM
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kdawson
on Saturday October 17, @04:42PM
from the gift-wrapped dept.
from the gift-wrapped dept.
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beadwindow writes "NASA's IBEX (Interstellar Boundary Explorer) spacecraft has made the first all-sky maps of the heliosphere and the results have taken researchers by surprise. The maps are bisected by a bright, winding ribbon of unknown origin: 'This is a shocking new result,' says IBEX principal investigator Dave McComas of the Southwest Research Institute. 'We had no idea this ribbon existed — or what has created it. Our previous ideas about the outer heliosphere are going to have to be revised.' Another NASA scientist notes, '"This ribbon winds between the two Voyager spacecraft and was not observed by either of them.'"
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Tag this (Score:5, Funny)
startrekgenerations
Re:Tag this (Score:4, Funny)
Negative. Tag this nexus!
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Negative. Tag this nexus!
'"This ribbon winds between the two Voyager spacecraft and was not observed by either of them.'"
Or the birth of V'ger
Re:Tag this (Score:5, Funny)
First MS Office. Then Open Office. Now the whole damn solar system!
Ribbons be damned!
Parent
Re:Tag this (Score:5, Funny)
Babylon 5 nerd here, it's obviously The Worm.
Parent
Ribbon? (Score:5, Funny)
Bill Gates thought that he was being innovative. Who'd have guessed that God came up with it first?
Re:Ribbon? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Wait... If both statements are true. Bill Gates must be God! It would explain some of the weird things in DNA that don't seem to do anything but it doesn't work when you take them away....
It would also explain the cases where it doesnt work when you leave them in.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Bill Gates must be God?
We are witnessing the birth of a new dogma: the Holy Quaternity.
You're late to the party, Bro.
Catholics have been doing that with Mary for centuries now.
Widespread Reach (Score:5, Funny)
Bah, hack scientists (Score:5, Interesting)
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Galactic_barrier [memory-alpha.org]
It's just the little one for each solar system, and these guys get federal grant money!
Prediction (Score:2, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
What about the jolly old man with white hair? I thought the Russians confirmed that God wasn't out there, though...
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Alternatively.... some Christian groups can claim (to the horror of others) that the Bible is not the Truth. Rather, the Truth is the Truth, and the Bible is a book about truth, and humanity's relationship to it. This key distinction lets said groups avoid fundamentalism, and also means that the accuracy of the timelines in question is relatively inconsequential to the religion's understanding of itself and of the world.
Noticing this, one may even begin appreciate a few Religious Claims from time to time
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
unless its a truly unknowable god being proposed in which case why even bother, its not like theres any proposed negative outcomes from not caring.
What about Chtulhu? Wanna test that? Some face hugging love?
Re:Prediction (Score:5, Informative)
We can pretty much rule out the biblical Judeo god (christianity, islam and judaism) because theres a LOT of claims about reality that contradict science (7 day creation, 6000 years old, giant wierd flood, space made of water, etc).
Actually, when you read the Old Testament in the original Hebrew most of those contradictions disappear. They mostly came about in translations by trying to reuse existing Greek (then English) words (like water) for different concepts in the original. Ever heard about Moses' horns? Same phenomenon: inappropriate translation.
Parent
be careful (Score:5, Funny)
It's good we discovered this early on. If we were already launching interstellar ships, there's a very real danger that at least one crew member's latent ESP abilities would start to run amok after their ship tried entering the ribbon. And, even worse, it'd probably be one of the ship captain's oldest friends.
Star Trek did it (Score:2)
And no, not the Nexus. Classic Trek. The barrier at the edge of the galaxy. And like all good barriers they're designed to either keep something out, or to keep something in...
I suppose the implication of Voyager not detecting it is that it wasn't there then. Guess the EBE's have noticed us after all.
Oh yeah, for those who haven't caught on? :-) :-) :-)
Re: (Score:2)
Voyager never left the galaxy, or got anywhere near the edge, they just went to the other side of it.
Re: (Score:2)
Wrong Voyager. I meant the Voyager space probe discussed in the article. If you must have a Star Trek reference for that one call it V'ger.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Sometimes literalists have a way of ruining the joke for everyone...
Ribbon is to solar system as barrier is to galaxy. Simple as that. And if I were being literal I would have noted that V'ger was supposed to be Voyager 6, which of course doesn't (yet) exist. Then again I'm making jokes about Star Trek. None of it has any bearing on reality.
Ah, So That's What it's All About! (Score:2)
Hey... makes as much sense as any other religion. Free sainthood for early supporters!
I guess (Score:2)
it's not a quantum leap to assume that other solar systems have them too. I wonder what more information we'll be able to learn about our system, and therefore be able to infer about other systems, due to this discovery.
galactic magnetic field (Score:4, Insightful)
FTA:
It looks like the ribbon is a side effect of the interaction between the galactic magnetic field and the heliosphere. It's possible that the interaction between the two causes particles to either collect in that region or direct those particles from that region toward Earth.
Re:galactic magnetic field (Score:4, Insightful)
I disagree. The probability of the ribbon running perpindicular to the galactic magnetic field is pretty low if it's a coincidence and it's not implausible that there are interactions between the heliosphere and the magnetic field (given that the heliosphere is set by plasma interactions and all, especially). So to infer that the galactic magnetic field plays a role is perfectly reasonable.
Perhaps you mean that it isn't *proof* that the galactic magnetic field is responsible? (Which is true. Granted, there is no proof in science, just sometimes strong evidence. Which this isn't, either.)
Parent
Re:galactic magnetic field (Score:5, Interesting)
The thing being... we have a 2D view of a 3D object. From our perspective it runs perpendicular to the axis of the magnetic field. But without a second observation point that's far enough away from the original observation point, we can't actually know that it actually *is* perpendicular to the axis, or whether it's an optical illusion and really going off at some oddball angle.
Just playing devil's advocate here. It certainly does look as though it's related to the galactic magnetic field, and I liked the suggestion of another poster, that it's basically just the galactic equivalent of Aurora Borealis. But at this point, we just can't *know* that it's related to the magnetic field at all. We could be seeing that giant floating ribbon from Star Trek: Generations.
And my first thought was to the 1992 video game, Star Control II... the documentation that came with that game said that access to hyperspace was impossible within large gravity wells (such as those around stars), and that there was a visible shimmer when you got to the region of space where the transition between dimensions was possible... :)
Parent
Re:galactic magnetic field (Score:4, Insightful)
The thing being... we have a 2D view of a 3D object. From our perspective it runs perpendicular to the axis of the magnetic field. But without a second observation point that's far enough away from the original observation point, we can't actually know that it actually *is* perpendicular to the axis, or whether it's an optical illusion and really going off at some oddball angle.
Again, sure. But we got what we got. And, once again, what's being suggested isn't that we know that these two things are connected. Merely that it'd be a heckuva coincidence if they weren't. If I hear a scream and rush around the corner to see someone unconscious on the sidewalk, I'm going to assume that the two are connected until I get further information suggesting otherwise. Certainly as I try to figure out what happened, that's my starting position. And similarly, the good folks working on this ribbon mystery are going to start by looking for ways of connecting the ribbon to the galactic magnetic field. They might be wrong. That might get them nowhere. But you start where the initial set of clues lead you and work from there.
So, once again: no one is saying that we know that the two are connected. It's just a reasonably strong hint in the initial stages of investigating a new phenomenon.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I like the GP suggestion, in scientific thinking, you *need* to make hypothesis and try to validate them.
What if the ribbons were just Galactic Northern Lights ? ;-))
There is nothing wrong with trying to guess in science as long as you categorize your thoughts as hypothesis...
Easy... (Score:2, Interesting)
It's just a warp signature. "They" weren't ready to make first contact.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
No, it's a warning beacon advising more civilized species of interstellar travelers to keep away from from a star system inhabited by homo sapiens sapiens.
Re:Easy... (Score:5, Funny)
No, it's a warning beacon advising more civilized species of interstellar travelers to keep away from from a star system inhabited by homo sapiens sapiens.
Actually, it's a banner. When we finally decipher it, we'll read, "Do Not Feed The Monkeys."
Well, actually, ".syeknoM ehT deeF toN oD" If you know what I mean.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Actually, it's a banner. When we finally decipher it, we'll read, "Do Not Feed The Monkeys."
I'd be happier if it said "Do Not Feed On The Monkeys" to be honest.
Final Fantasy (Score:5, Funny)
At last, we now know why the solar system is immune to status effects.
The Hindmost is pleased. (Score:3, Funny)
And so begins Louis, Nessus, Teela, and Speaker's journey...
A ribbon? (Score:3, Funny)
What, can't a solar system look cute for photo day?
Have something written (Score:3, Funny)
Looking for the Right Thing (Score:4, Insightful)
This "ribbon" escaped detection by two former Voyager spacecraft, and is only now being detected by some new spacecraft that happened to be looking for something different. This "ribbon" is a ribbon by some specific property.
It's amazing, to me, how what we see is influenced to a great extent by what we're looking for. The manifold possibilities the universe presents to us!
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I think they are only talking about the location of the Voyager spacecraft as a reference, I don't think there's any suggestion that they would have been expected to detect a large scale effect like this. It would be like expecting to determine the shape of the Mid Atlantic Ridge from two Bathyscaphe dives.
Re:Looking for the Right Thing (Score:4, Interesting)
I think they are only talking about the location of the Voyager spacecraft as a reference, I don't think there's any suggestion that they would have been expected to detect a large scale effect like this
Plus, I suspect the Voyager craft were not equipped to detect this particular phenomena. However, if they were colliding with a lot more particles than expected, or got caught in a flow of particles, over a long period of time, that might impact their trajectories.
I've read that the courses Pioneer craft have changed in slow and unexplainable ways. I can't find if the Voyager craft have experienced the same thing. But maybe this phenomena could be part of the explanation.
I just love how we keep finding new things that challenge what we knew before.
Parent
Long-delayed echoes (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Long-delayed echoes (Score:4, Informative)
Long delayed echoes (LDEs) are radio echoes which return to the sender several seconds after a radio transmission has occurred.
Unless someone has discovered faster than light communications, probably not.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Long-delayed echoes (Score:4, Informative)
Could this be the cause of the Long-delayed echoes?
No, LDEs are are due to radio signals being trapped in an ionospheric/magnetospheric ionization duct. These are one to two kilometer diameter "tubes" of of low electron density that are aligned with the earth's magnetic field lines and extend from the F-region of the ionosphere in one hemisphere to the F-region in the opposite hemisphere. Radio signals originating in one hemisphere travel along one of these ducts and then are reflected off the top side of the ionosphere in the other hemisphere. They then travel back along the duct to the place of origin, resulting in the long-delayed echo.
There's a pretty good article (from which I lifted most of this information) on this phenomenon in the November 2009 issue of QST magazine.
KJ6BSO
Parent
All hail (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Why is this modded funny? This is more evidence that Pastafarianism is the One True Religion. While the theorists scramble to explain the FSM's Right Arm, us believers get angry at the blindness of the other humans. What sacrilege to explain away all the evidence smack before your face with mumbo jumbo and treat our religion as a joke!
The Note (Score:5, Funny)
"Please wear this ribbon on your planetary system in order to help us raise awareness. Awareness is such a precious commodity in galaxies of all colors, shapes and sizes, that we feel it only proper to honor the awareness that is within us all by taking this opportunity to mark those systems with nascent awarenesses with a ribbon. Hopefully by comparing our pre-aware planetary systems we can come to appreciate our own awareness and the source of that awareness, whatever form you may believe that it takes. Remember, it takes a spiral arm to raise a planetary system. Thank you again for raising awareness with this ribbon."
Gift (Score:5, Insightful)
It just means that life, the universe, and everything is a gift.
Good (Score:3, Interesting)
Now we have a good reason to send some more Voyager probes out. The last two were certainly worth the cost, and it'd probably be a lot cheaper to build and launch a comparable probe today than it was when the first two were launched.
Northern Lights (sort of)? (Score:5, Interesting)
Would these possibly be some sort of 'northern lights' phenomena? If the earth's magnetic field generates a phenomena at a planetary scale, why not a solar system generating a similar field that interacts with galactic particles?
Re: (Score:3, Funny)