drunken_boxer777 writes with this excerpt from an AP report:
"Six men emerged from a metal hatch after 105 days of isolation in a mock spacecraft, still smiling after testing the stresses that space travelers may face on the journey to Mars. They had no television or Internet and their only link to the outside world was communications with the experiment's controllers — who also monitored them via TV cameras — and an internal e-mail system. Communications with the outside world had 20-minute delays to imitate a real space flight."
Wow. (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah yeah Mars...anyone can do that. 105 days with no TV or internet?
I, for one, welcome our godlike astronaut overlords.
Re:Wow. (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:Wow. (Score:5, Funny)
I would go crazy--
Astronaut 1: Are we there yet? Are we there yet?
Astronaut 2: I shouldn't have eaten all of those beans... (gurgle)
Astronaut 3: I hope you like country music as much as I do.
Parent
Physchology (Score:5, Insightful)
Living in cramped quarters with a few other people for 105 days is not so big a deal. Reality would likely be far different. See, those 105 people *knew* that just outside the cramped wall was a big, beautiful, receptive planet, with air to breathe, beer to drink, and babes walking around to scope out. They are a day-flight away from home, wherever it be. Something go wrong? Darn, too bad. Simulation over, everybody have a beer and go home!
But an actual, honest-to-god Mars trip is different, and everybody will know it. Just outside the cramped wall is the darkest, blackest, most incomprehensibly complete void mankind can fathom. No air, no beer, no babes. Nothing. And not just some nothing, MILLIONS of miles of nothing. Months of travel at speeds inconceivable to airlines flight. Something go wrong? Everybody's dead!
Sure, just about anybody could live with this kind of stress for a while, but we're not talking about a while, we're talking about MONTHS of this kind of pressure. Many perfectly healthy, strong, capable people would crack under this kind of pressure. And even our best and brightest crack under the pressure [foxnews.com] of living here on Earth, with lots of air, beer, and pretty babes!
The simulation is more of a publicity stunt, and it's appropriate. People want to try the trip, and that's A-OK. But do not think, even for a moment, that this gives particularly meaningful data on what a real Mars trip would be like!
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
EDIT: /"those 105 people"/"those people in there for 105 days"/
Sheesh. Maybe I'll try preview next time?
Re:Physchology (Score:5, Funny)
So, what we should do is put people in a "mock spacecraft" for a "test" and launch them towards Mars. At the end of the 105 days they open the hatch and... surprise!
Parent
Re:Physchology (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
So the key is to send people who aren't very bright and don't even have a basic scientific education.
You want to send managers etc to mars? Hmmm not a bad idea,we could call it a "B" Ark. (-:
Re:Physchology (Score:5, Insightful)
I see it differently, and I think the test subject do too: If you're the first crew to Mars, you know every second that what you're doing is fucking important, and that you have a special privilege and responsibility, and that the whole world is watching you. I think it's pretty likely that under such circumstances the dude wouldn't have tried to fondle the hot Canadian chick. You'd keep a lid on it.
Contrast that to an experiment where you basically have five people in railroad car undergoing isolation torture with dubious scientific value. Then you realize "you know, if I have nice bloody fistfight with Sergey, they'll cancel this stupid experiment, let me go home, and the jerk might even lose a tooth like he deserves to. All signs point to yes."
So in summary, I'm saying that a real crew on its way to the actual planet Mars has many more reasons to be on their best behavior.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
"You know, if there was an 'airlock accident' I could flush Segey out into space, and then I could have my way with one of my crewmates because, seriously, who can stop me?"
Yeah I'm thinking the screening process will be pretty thorough for a Mars mission.
Re:Psychology (Score:4, Informative)
If there ARE any problems or clashes onboard a Mars vessel, outside of the simulator, all they have to do is have one guy dedicated to saying "Guys, we're on our way to MARS!" and poof! Problems solved.
For the typical you and me, we aren't QUITE so obsessive. Our trip to Mars would probably include some measure of space madness, but for the first groups, it's the non-psychological biology that needs to be tested rather than their mental fortitude. The people on those trips know they've got a 3% survival rate, and tends to be a very calming experience when volunteered for.
Parent
Re:Physchology (Score:5, Insightful)
Believe it not, that makes it harder rather then easier. When I was making SSBN patrols for the USN, 'fast cruises' (simulating underway while tied up to the pier) were much harder knowing those things were so close. Actual patrols were easier because you knew they weren't close and thus weren't nearly so much a distraction.
Which is why they don't let just anyone go, just like the Submarine Service they pick preferentially from the right hand side of the bell curve. Sure, the occasional loon makes it through screening, but that doesn't disprove the whole concept.
Parent
Re:Physchology (Score:4, Informative)
"Believe it not, that makes it harder rather then easier. When I was making SSBN patrols for the USN, 'fast cruises' (simulating underway while tied up to the pier) were much harder knowing those things were so close. Actual patrols were easier because you knew they weren't close and thus weren't nearly so much a distraction."
I'll second that. While not having done duty on a sub or similar, as preparation for a deployment with Swedish forces for UN ops in africa, we went through hothouse training. Basically, we had 2 weeks in a huge house with temperature and humidity ramped up to the levels we would encounter there. Knowing that just outside the walls were people drinking cool drinks, eating ice cream etc made it infinitely harder to endure than the real mission actually, on a psychological level.
Parent
Re:Physchology (Score:5, Interesting)
Isaac Asimov wrote a short story along those lines. I can't remember the title. Massive spoilers here, though you can probably guess what they are just from the context of this reply...
It's set in a space capsule on the way to the moon (it was written before the Apollo landings.) One of the men starts going kinda loopy during the long isolation, gets crazy ideas about Man's place in the universe, maybe it's all a big trick. When they finally reach the moon and start coming around to the dark side, which had never before been seen by human eyes, they see that the entire moon is just a gigantic stage prop with wooden struts and fabric stretched over it. The guy goes insane and tries to kill the others to keep the secret.
Turns out the entire trip was actually a simulation, conducted in a research facility on Earth, though the crew didn't know it. The image of the moon they saw from their viewport was actually generated using a scale model of the moon and a tracking camera. The simulation was supposed to end before the camera came around to the far side of the moon, but the mission controllers forgot or were asleep or something.
It's a cool story. Probably would have been cooler if you hadn't read this...
Parent
Re:Physchology (Score:4, Funny)
It's a cool story. Probably would have been cooler if you hadn't read this...
I dunno. I like Asimov, and I may read this story at some point, and I have to admit I'll be a little disappointed if the denouement doesn't include the phrase "but the mission controllers forgot or were asleep or something."
Parent
Re:Physchology (Score:5, Interesting)
I read your response and I liked it....mostly.
Lest anyone disagree, he's pretty damn accurate. I'm a former submariner. I've lived through fires, suicides (not me, silly!) and other casualties that really scared the personnel and myself on board my submarine. Let's focus on what scared the shit out of me. Floating in the middle of the ocean with no hydraulic pressure to steer the ship, no hydraulics to open and close critical valve's to safety-of-ship systems, limited fuel and using reactor power is now out of the question, bobbing on the ocean for three full days in heavy sea state. Since the reactor was placed in a 'safe' state, we used our diesel engine (yes, just 1!) to power critical systems. Limited lighting and ventilation only.
None of us were too sure if we'd make it back alive and/or in one piece. The only thing we had going for us is that we could still pull fresh oxygen into the boat. Oh, and the captain secured drills for the remainder of the cruise. He always made us run drills. Always except this time.
We had it made.
Now for the 'mostly' part. And this is the fun stuff.
You got 6 guys here who basically 'behaved' during the simulation. Wait till 60 days begins to set in. They'll start screwing with each other's minds. Trust me.
We used to lock people in their bunks by raising the hinged bunk and placing the support bar in its lock to keep it raised at 45 deg with the victim in it. For our astro buddies, Straps to keep you in your bunk will strangely become stuck with another victim in them.
Personal items will be held for ransom by some unknown assailant. Pictures will be posted of said personal item every few weeks. Sometimes with pieces of it missing, often being torn off of it...violently. Sometimes there are doubles of the items so as not to really destroy the object. Other times it's the real thing and your personal device is being destroyed!
Food will be contaminated. That's all I'm saying.
Why beat and a man down when you can slowly enjoy watch him tear himself apart because of the things that are subversively committed against him.
I'm no prophet here; but, I'm sure that as space travel becomes routine there are people that are going to enjoy tormenting others endlessly. Just like here on Earth. Ah, smell that fresh air.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
That is actually a great idea. A reasonable submersible, or some kind of isolation in the Arctic or Antarctic in the winter would focus their minds nicely on Staying Alive. You don't want to kill them, but you do want to keep aware of the consequences of screwing up.
mod GP up Re:Physchology (Score:3, Informative)
There have already been submerged submarine patrols lasting over a hundred days.
You'd think that military psychologists would have plenty of studies of people in these situations. Perhaps they are not sharing them.
Veteran of the SSBN sub force here, and I'm kind of surprised that this is considered that big a deal. We've been doing trips in isolation this long since the 60s.
Then again, I suppose the group dynamics for 6 people are slightly different than for 110 people.
Re: (Score:2)
Luckily they bring the ladies along; that eliminates the need for the Internet and TV.
Trip to Mars takes 9 months (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Trip to Mars takes 9 months (Score:5, Informative)
True enough. However, the most likely trajectory will be an Earth-return trajectory, so that they'll come back here if something goes wrong along the way. Which is only 180 days long.
So they made it MORE than halfway before they exited the spacecraft, not less than halfway...
Note, by the way, that some of the crews of Mir spent six months on Mir, which is smaller than a Mars craft is likely to be.
Parent
Re:Trip to Mars takes 9 months (Score:4, Informative)
Maybe they have a working antimatter drive?
Another significant advantage is speed. The Reference Mission spacecraft would take astronauts to Mars in about 180 days. "Our advanced designs, like the gas core and the ablative engine concepts, could take astronauts to Mars in half that time, and perhaps even in as little as 45 days," said Kirby Meyer, an engineer with Positronics Research on the study.
http://www.nasa.gov/exploration/home/antimatter_spaceship.html [nasa.gov]
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Note, by the way, that some of the crews of Mir spent six months on Mir, which is smaller than a Mars craft is likely to be.
Yeah, but those were Russians. The Mir was probably a lot nicer and roomier than their apartments back home.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Note, by the way, that some of the crews of Mir spent six months on Mir, which is smaller than a Mars craft is likely to be.
Yeah, but those were Russians.
Not all of them-- Shannon Lucid [nasa.gov] spent six months on Mir.
Re:Wow. (Score:5, Funny)
We could supply them with all sorts of great movies to help keep their mental state in peak form...Lost in Space, Apollo 13, Armageddon, Deep Impact, Red Planet, ...
Parent
105 days? No problem. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:105 days? No problem. (Score:5, Funny)
The astronauts are made up of our parents?
Parent
Why no TV/Internet? (Score:5, Insightful)
I would have thought that would be an easy thing to provide them for mental stimulation on a long boring journey. Couple of laptops with few thousand hours of video, games, website snapshots, virtual environments to explore.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
These days we'd only be talking a few watts per person for a modern laptop. Surely they could spare that... a little bit of diverted solar, or reuse some of the power from the 1 hour daily exercise they're probably expected to take.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
What kind of dumb question is this? Perhaps the same way they already receive other communications signals from Earth? How do you think the Mars landers communicate with Earth?
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
How do you think the Mars landers communicate with Earth?
I think they waited approximately fifteen minutes for the signal to travel each direction. Would you want your HTTP requests to take fifteen minutes? You'd lose your stiff every time you clicked to the next porn image.
Obligatory Robot Chicken reference (Score:5, Funny)
"STOP. FARTING."
The building blocks of a conspiracy theory... (Score:5, Funny)
If they ever do manage to land on Mars the conspiracy theorists will now point to this and say "see they SAY they built it as a simulator but REALLY that's where they faked the entire Mars landing! Why else would they need to build such a simulator!" Very much like the lunar surface simulator they built out in the desert, or the landing simulator MIT built for the moon landings. Oh well...
Re:The building blocks of a conspiracy theory... (Score:5, Funny)
> If they ever do manage to land on Mars...
Hah, you *fool*, you've already fallen for it! You think this is a simulator? The government has been secretly colonizing Mars for years now, they just spin these "simulator" stories to "explain" why certain individual astronauts are out of touch for long periods of time. You think mere robots could do what the recent Mars probes and rovers have done? Oh, no. They can go to Mars whenever they want.
But they are POWERLESS against my ALL CAPS and "inappropriate" quoting! I "shall" EXPOSE them!
Parent
Re: (Score:3)
We discovered it wasn't actually made of cheese. That's why we haven't been back since.
Uh, DVR? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Uh, DVR? (Score:5, Insightful)
It wouldn't be too difficult to pack a few hard drives or SSDs with a few thousand movies and episodes of TV shows.
Except, as soon as word got out of them flipping the first bit on the drive during the copy operation, the MPAA/RIAA/ABC/CBS/NBC/etc would be down their necks, complaining to their congresspeople about how much more important their anti-piracy efforts are over scientific discovery, cosmic exploration, and our astronauts not going insane during a nearly one-third year flight. And then they'd add a few extra trillion in to the "potential lost sales" figures they flaunt due to the Martians the astronauts would potentially be sharing the movies with who would then not buy the movies.
Then they'd bitch about making sure there's DRM on the spacecraft (jacking up the price and complexity) and make excuses that a 40-minute round-trip communication back to the central servers on earth every X minutes of playback is a perfectly reasonable compromise to make "sure" it doesn't fall into the wrong hands, and would try their damndest to delay the launch until they could convince the entire judicial branch of the United States government to quite cheerfully treat the astronauts like potential criminals.
I mean, other than THAT, it'd be a perfectly reasonable idea.
Parent
Better bring a game or two (Score:2, Interesting)
Perfect enviroment... (Score:3, Interesting)
This is a perfect marketing opportunity for an E-Book reader. A device like a Kindle that gets VERY long battery life + can hold MANY books would be the perfect design for the weight conscious space launch, limited electrical supply, and low-bandwidth data link (email).
If I were to spend 200+ days in transit I would want a lot of reading material. All duties become dull and repetitive, it's the down-time that will drive a man insane from boredom.
Real isolation (Score:5, Interesting)
Submarine Patrol 105 Days (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Submarine Patrol 105 Days (Score:5, Informative)
I was just going to post that, if NASA needs people that can spend months in space, they can go Navy... like, when they got Alan Shepard.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I've been saying that for years (and not just because I'm USN/Submarine service). The fighter jock mentality that worked so well for Mercury works less well as missions become longer and more demanding - but the submariner mentality is perfectly suited for such missions.
On the subject of Alan Shepard - I once saw a study that showed that NASA (probably unconsciously) tended to select Naval and Marine aviators over USAF pilots for mission command and pilot slots. Not overwhelming so, but the ratio
Wasn't MIR a much better simulator than this? (Score:3, Interesting)
The value I see in this is that if you repeat such experiments many times, you can start testing theories about the interaction of certain personality types, and also test theories about choosing optimal group sizes, gender mix, degree of contact with Earth (less might actually be better). Also, I know that Mir cosmonauts frequently got pissed off because they were given too much work. Experiments like this could establish an appropriate threshold for "minimum necessary slack time".
OK, I take it back - maybe there is a lot to be learned from experiments like this. As a bonus they're absurdly cheap (as a fraction of the total Mars mission cost) and if repeated often enough, they really might help (in unexpected ways) with planning a mission which is least likely to fail.
(Though it's worth adding that if the actual Mars astronauts got into bloody fistfights and sexually harassed the hot Canadian crewmate, Americans might actually tune in and learn more astronomy sort of by accident. Hmm, maybe Rupert Murdoch should fund the mission and give FOX/Sky broadcast rights to what would surely be the most watched reality show in all of history!)
internal email system? (Score:4, Funny)
to: Commander Bob
fr: Commander Tom
subj: Your leg
Hi Bob, could you move your leg? It's blocking my mouth.
Thanks, Tom
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
to: Ground Control
fr: Major Tom
subj: Status update
I'm stepping through the door...
Tom
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Not one way - round trip is approx. 3 months or approx. 2 years, depending upon how it's timed.