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Comments: 464 +- Science: Is Playing a DVD Harder Than Rocket Science? on Wednesday May 27 2009, @11:21PM
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samzenpus
on Wednesday May 27 2009, @11:21PM
from the too-much-TV dept.
from the too-much-TV dept.
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nasa
dacut writes "After successfully repairing the Hubble Space Telescope, astronauts aboard the shuttle Atlantis found themselves with a free day due to thunderstorms which delayed their return. They attempted to pass the time by watching movies, only to find that their laptops did not have the proper software, and Houston was unable to help. No word, alas, on what software was involved, though we can assume that software/codec updates are a tad difficult when you're orbiting the planet at 17,200MPH."
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VLC (Score:5, Informative)
Too bad vlc [videolan.org] wasn't part of their default software.
Re:VLC (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re:VLC (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:VLC (Score:4, Insightful)
And that's why Russian spacecraft will always outlast US spacecraft. They may be prone to a wee bit more error, but in general you get the feeling the underlying idea is "screw protocol, what matters is it works!"
But then again... After all, the Soviet Union also failed because sticking to doctrine and doing it "the marxist way" was more important than logic, reason and real life requirements (amongst other shortcomings). It could now be the downfall of "our western" system as well. It doesn't matter anymore what is logic, reasonable or actually required. It seems more and more "looking good" and "doing the 'right' thing" is more important than accomplishing anything.
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Re:VLC (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, I think lack of respect for patents and copyright laws is probably one of the big drivers in the Chinese economic boom. Because there's no artificial limitations on what you can build and sell, all manner of artefacts are effectively 'open source'.
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Re:VLC (Score:5, Informative)
It's a sensible way to develop an economy. Which is why the US didn't recognise foreign copyrights or patents until 1891.
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Re:VLC (Score:5, Insightful)
That's a good point. Most developed countries didn't get seriously concerned with IP law until they started exporting IP themselves. Japanese companies made a lot of knock-offs in the 1950s and 60s; Korea, Hong Kong and Taiwan followed in the 70s and 80s. Is it surprising then that China, India, Vietnam etc. do the same? The difference is perhaps that it is easier to spot in todays better informed market.
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Re:VLC (Score:5, Insightful)
It's also cheaper to manufacture something if you don't have to pay your own design, research, development and marketing costs, and just clone someone else's work and sell into the market that they created.
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Re:VLC (Score:5, Insightful)
But if the Chinese factory leaks your specs and a knock-off is released into your market, reducing your profits, that impacts your savings.
Leaks your specs? Nah, they just do another complete production run using the same factory line that they used to build your order.
When it becomes interesting is when they actually tweak your design a little, add a few more features that you missed. It seems to me that a totally free market like this actually drives innovation far harder than a traditional, copyright-and-patent-protected market because if the only market exclusivity your product has is the three months it takes your competitors to clone it, you'd damn well better come up with something new and _good_ in those three months to stay ahead of the curve. I would say that in 10 to 20 years' time, Chinese products will be more advanced than 'western' ones, purely due to this incredible market force.
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Re:VLC (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:VLC (Score:5, Interesting)
> Borders extend vertically only in US law, not in the rest of the world...
They extend diagonally in the rest of the world? Your nation claims no airspace?
> ...another law that does not apply outside the USA
What law might that be?
While Congress has never enacted legislation formally defining the upper limit of US air space the most common administrative limit is 50 miles (80km). The USA certainly does not claim that its borders extend vertically to infinity. Space is clearly recognized by the US government as international territory.
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Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC (Score:5, Informative)
VLC isn't supported very well and should be your last-resort if all else fails.
Media Player Classic Home Cinema is a much superior player that also has built-in playback codecs.
What does "isn't supported very well" mean? VLC's got a lot more active a community behind it - just compare the size of the forums for each.
The big thing that VLC has over MPC and most other DVD players on windows is that it is completely independent of Microsoft's DirectShow filter system which is pretty much the equivalent of DLL hell, but for codecs.
VLC may not have the slickest user interface and it may not be the most efficient media player since it has virtually no support for hardware acceleration, but it in its current form it is pretty much bullet proof - no matter what kind of system configuration problems you've got, it usually "just works." It isn't my player of choice, but it is my last ditch player because it pretty much plays anything.
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Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, I agree with most of your points. VLC is very well supported, on a lot of operating systems - but certain parts of it just aren't good.
For example, the lack of acceleration makes compatibility great across the board, but it makes it dog slow on every OS. Until recently it was also single threaded - actually, it might still be. 1080p isn't even possible on most CPUs, while with MPC-HC, DirectShow + GPU acceleration, you'd be looking at 15-20% CPU usage max. (and you get to enable quality enhancing shaders)
I'm not saying it's bad; it just has a different featureset, with compatibility prioritized over...
-An intuitive UI
-A good hotkey scheme
-Hardware acceleration
-GPU shader/codec support
-Ability to use (impressive) directshow codecs
Unfortunately for me, compatibility hasn't been so great on my computers. I've always had less trouble with MPC-HC. VLC doesn't play audio on one of my computers, and it gets aspect ratios screwed up on another. (How? No clue. It doesn't have any acceleration, so I'm totally baffled.)
I've also repeatedly come across videos that it has no support for. In the end, if MPC-HC + KliteMega can't open it, I just go for MPlayer. (which almost never fails, but has an even worse UI. Or rather, it has no UI; it's just a box with the video playing in it. :x
To each his own. My Uncle has a Mac, and he says VLC beats the pants off Quicktime. Heh - I agree with him! :P
I just wouldn't take VLC if I had the chance to get a nice DirectShow media player(like MPC-HC) and ffdshow.
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Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC (Score:4, Informative)
Then, load both :)
When I pre-install computers for my customers, they get both pre-loaded (use CCCP for MPC, it loads the codecs needed, and configures it for it automagically).
I agree though, MPC is much nicer interface than VLC, but when you are troubleshooting VLC is the best thing on the planet, it "just works".
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Likely cause... (Score:5, Informative)
Because DVD Playback requires a basic $5~ codec (for all the patent holders etc) some versions of Windows do not ship with it and thus without third party applications like PowerDVD or WinDVD that supply a codec, DVD Playback is "impossible."
I'm not sure I know a workaround without sending data to the station, either a codec or third party software that has a built-in decoder.
Another day, another victory for DRM!
Re:Likely cause... (Score:5, Funny)
Because DVD Playback requires a basic $5~ codec (for all the patent holders etc) some versions of Windows do not ship with it and thus without third party applications like PowerDVD or WinDVD that supply a codec, DVD Playback is "impossible."
Pirates! Theives! No one sold them a license to play the DVD in space! Unless it's region 0 it must be illegal. Either that or your software would have to play one DVD per region in the Shuttle's orbit (and of synchronise switching between players while switching other players off to avoid licensing violations). No the lag they'd experience with playback is not an excuse!
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Re:Likely cause... (Score:5, Funny)
Did I hear that right? They are the first Space Pirates ever? AWSOME!
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Re:Likely cause... (Score:4, Informative)
Unless it's region 0 it must be illegal.
Not at all. That's specifically what region 8 [wikipedia.org] is for.
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Re:Likely cause... (Score:5, Funny)
Hubble is not in the normal space shuttle/ISS orbit, which made getting an Internet connection more difficult than usual. In their normal orbit, they just time their Internet downloads for when they are passing over Cringely's Pringles can WiFi antenna...
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Re:Likely cause... (Score:5, Informative)
To clarify:
#include<stdlib.h>
typedef unsigned int uint;
char ctb[512]="33733b2663236b763e7e362b6e2e667bd393db0643034b96de9ed60b4e0e4\
69b57175f82c787cf125a1a528fca8ac21fd999d10049094190d898d001480840913d7d35246\
d2d65743c7c34256c2c6475dd9dd5044d0d4594dc9cd4054c0c449559195180c989c11058185\
081c888c011d797df0247074f92da9ad20f4a0a429f53135b86c383cb165e1e568bce8ec61bb\
3f3bba6e3a3ebf6befeb6abeeaee6fb37773f2267276f723a7a322f6a2a627fb9f9b1a0e9a9e\
1f0b8f8b0a1e8a8e0f15d1d5584cd8dc5145c1c5485cc8cc415bdfdb5a4edade5f4bcfcb4a5e\
cace4f539793120692961703878302168286071b7f7bfa2e7a7eff2bafab2afeaaae2ff";
typedef unsigned char uchar;uint tb0[11]={5,0,1,2,3,4,0,1,2,3,4};uchar* F=NULL;
uint lf0,lf1,out;void ReadKey(uchar* key){int i;char hst[3]; hst[2]=0;if(F==\
NULL){F=malloc(256);for(i=0;i<256;i++){hst[0]=ctb[2*i];hst[1]=ctb[2*i+1];F[i]=\
strtol(hst,NULL,16);}}out=0;lf0=(key[1]<<9)|key[0]|0x100;lf1=(key[4]<<16)|(key\
[3]<<8)|key[2];lf1=((lf1&0xfffff8)<<1)|(lf1&0x7)|0x8;}uchar Cipher(int sw1,\
int sw2){int i,a,b,x=0,y=0;for(i=0;i<8;i++){a=((lf0>>2)^(lf0>>16))&1;b=((lf1\
>>12)^(lf1>>20)^(lf1>>21)^(lf1>>24))&1;lf0=(lf0<<1)|a;lf1=(lf1<<1)|b;x=(x>>1)\
|(a<<7);y=(y>>1)|(b<<7);}x^=sw1;y^=sw2;return out=(out>>8)+x+y;} void \
CSSdescramble(uchar *sec,uchar *key){uint i;uchar *end=sec+0x800;uchar KEY[5];
for(i=0;i<5;i++)KEY[i]=key[i]^sec[0x54+i];ReadKey(KEY);sec+=0x80;while(sec!=\
end)*sec++=F[*sec]^Cipher(255,0);}void CSStitlekey1(uchar *key,uchar *im)
{uchar k[5];int i; ReadKey(im);for(i=0;i<5;i++)k[i]=Cipher(0,0);for(i=9;i>=0;\
i--)key[tb0[i+1]]=k[tb0[i+1]]^F[key[tb0[i+1]]]^key[tb0[i]];}void CSStitlekey2\
(uchar *key,uchar *im){uchar k[5];int i;ReadKey(im);for(i=0;i<5;i++)k[i]=\
Cipher(0,255);for(i=9;i>=0;i--)key[tb0[i+1]]=k[tb0[i+1]]^F[key[tb0[i+1]]]^key\
[tb0[i]];}void CSSdecrypttitlekey(uchar *tkey,uchar *dkey){int i;uchar im1[6];
uchar im2[6]={0x51,0x67,0x67,0xc5,0xe0,0x00};for(i=0;i<6;i++)im1[i]=dkey[i];
CSStitlekey1(im1,im2);CSStitlekey2(tkey,im1);}
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Re:Likely cause... (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Likely cause... (Score:5, Funny)
Yes, but I wish I had said it like you did.
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Waste of fuel (Score:5, Funny)
Completely waste of fuel...
I'm not surprised. (Score:5, Funny)
Any idea how hard it is to get DVDs in the "Outer Space" region encoding?
license issues? (Score:4, Funny)
Wow. They're in space and want to watch movies?! (Score:4, Insightful)
I guess even the view from space becomes boring after a while.
Maybe they could kick off the first ever game of Zero Gee Football [wikipedia.org]. Surely they'd have a Red Dwarf fan amongst the crew who could suggest it.
A minor nit... (Score:4, Insightful)
When you're in space ... (Score:5, Funny)
no one can hear you scream "AAARRRGGGHHHHHHHHHH" !
Oh come on! (Score:4, Insightful)
There are already people posting "well, they should have checked to make sure their computer could play DVDs." Why? This is a reasonable expectation of what a computer should be able to do out of the box! My Mac certainly came with the ability to play DVDs, and nowadays most Linux installs do too - so we're almost certainly talking about a Windows box. Sure, you can download and install VLC - as a matter of fact, that's what I had to resort to with my wife's old Windows laptop before she (thankfully) switched to a Mac. But why the heck are all you Windows users so tolerant of the stupidity that leaves a stock operating system unable to do exactly the sort of thing the average user will expect to be able to do?
I was a DOS user and then a Windows user from way back. But silly little things like this always bugged me, and eventually I wised up.
Re:Oh come on! (Score:5, Interesting)
It's okay - the MPAA are shooting themselves in the foot. Every time a Windows user can't figure out how to play a DVD, a new pirate is born. :D
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Re:Oh come on! (Score:5, Informative)
Same reason that linux doesn't playback MP3, DVDs and h.264 by default. US-only software patents covering the codecs. Without paying the fee, and getting the licences to use the patents, it's illegal to ship it in your US product.
XP added limited MP3 playback, Windows Vista added built in MPEG2 playback, and 7 adds h.264 playback. Yes, XP should have had MPEG2 playback built in, it came out three years after DVD became widely available.
Linux at least has the excuse that free distros can't pay the patent fees and thus can't ship them in the default package to US users (so usually have a 'download it now' option when you first need it, where you promise you don't live in the US, and download from a mirror elsewhere in the world). This is annoying when you do live outside the US, and have to put up with software patent bullshit in everything, even non-US software projects, because they don't want to get sued.
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What about the mission? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, easy to hate on Win, love OS X and yadda yadda yadda.
The laptops must have been there for a reason. Perhaps someone in configuration management said, "Gee, it's going into space, it might be mission-critical at some point, so let's not load it up with entertainment stuff and bloatware."
I don't know - I'm in a more than usual snarky mood.
Watching movies? Really? (Score:4, Insightful)
But perhaps more importantly: what were they going to watch?
Actually, I just got an idea for a poll.
Re:Watching movies? Really? (Score:5, Funny)
Probably not Apollo 13...
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when you're orbiting the planet at 17,200MPH (Score:5, Funny)
No wonder they didn't make it through the "Thy shall not copy this DVD" part.
Region 8 (sideways) (Score:5, Funny)
Don't they know, outer space is region 8 (*laid down sideways). MPAA is still working on the technology to allow playback there.
In the ask slashdot submission queue: (Score:5, Funny)
"I'm currently orbiting the Earth for an extra 24 hours because of weather delays and trying to watch a DVD..."
A DVD player in earth orbit (Score:4, Funny)
Hey astronauts, maybe you should not have set a new country code every 15 minutes while passing over the next continent....
I guess you can't Stream it (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Lifting dvds into space, why? (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Lifting dvds into space, why? (Score:5, Insightful)
Someone like "Amazon" or "Apple" should provide Movies for the space missions. It is great PR. Each astronaut picks 5 movies or so, which get loaded onto the laptop. It saves NASA and the taxpayers money, because you don't have to pay for the fuel to lift the DVDs. Someone has made sure the software to view the movies is on the Laptop in whatever OS they are using. And who ever pulls off this PR stunt pays 1 or 2 bucks in royalties to the studios.
It sounds like a win-win to everyone involved.
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Re:Bored in orbit ??? (Score:4, Funny)
You find plenty to do on Earth. Now lock yourself in a small room with a few other people for a few weeks, and see if you never get bored.
Oh, wait, Slashdot... being locked in a small room with a few people is probably more stimulating than normal.
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Re:Bored in orbit ??? (Score:4, Insightful)
Perhaps *you* might not be bored in space, but these are astronauts whose *job* it is to be in space. One can only be awed by the beauty of the sight of earth from space for so long, then it becomes old news. Ditto for the space shuttle itself - it might be awesome, interesting, and new to someone who *isn't* already an astronaut and had the inner workings of every piece of tech on it drilled into their head so many times they could do it all in their sleep, but I'm sure its all terribly 'the same old stuff' to those who are.
Also, there is an awful lot more room on the earth, things you haven't already seen, than there is on the shuttle for the astronauts. They are certainly intimately familiar with every square inch of space that they might go to 'find plenty to do' - pretty much all the gear and equipment they have is all there with the purpose of their mission - there isn't much in terms of 'things to do'. (Well, I heard somewhere they did bring some movies on DVD, presumably ones they haven't already seen)
And "grab a camera" ? - I'm sure so many pictures have been taken from orbit, and of the inside of the shuttle, that any more would just be a waste of storage/film. I'm sure that there were even cameras rolling (and/or snapping) for their entire set of spacewalks working on Hubble, as well. What on earth could now they take pictures of that would be new?
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Re:I hate DVDs (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, please. You're as bad as the people who go on endlessly about "technically, a Mac is a PC". Drop the etymological reductionism and acknowledge that the meaning of a phrase is defined by its usage, not by the sum of the meanings of its components.
In the real world so unfamiliar to the endless horde of quibblers and nitpickers, there is no distinction between "laser disc" and "LaserDisc". The generic term used for media such as LDs and DVDs is "optical disc", not "laser disc".
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Re:LOL (Score:5, Insightful)
It's simple: There is no rule, just one (1) statement.
(Excuse my profanity)
You're in Fucking Space! SPACE! At best this is going to happen only a handful of times in the average astronauts lifetime, more likely only once, what the hell are they doing with a DVD player!?!
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Re:LOL (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah! Have sex! even gay sex! anything is better than the latest crap you would have gotten at the nearest blockbuster back home.
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Re:LOL (Score:5, Funny)
what the hell are they doing with a DVD player!?!
Watch latest sequels of "Earthlight -- Breathtaking pictures of Earth from Space" in HD?
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Re:LOL (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, going into space would be cool, a once in a lifetime event and almost every breathing human being would be utterly flabbergasted by the view and the opportunity. I think that there is an aspect that you are overlooking;
The activities that NASA assigns the shuttle crew, mission specialists and spacewalkers is very intensive and intellectually exhausting. Being in space for a week to two weeks and having nearly every minute of your time mapped out and assigned creates an incredible amount of stress.
Working on earth, in a conventional job. Let's say as a programmer, working 16 hour days with a team of bosses standing right behind you and monitoring your every keystroke, you would find yourself exhausted and looking for a mental margarita after a very short time.
NASA cannot make it to the Mos Eisley Cantina on the planet Tatooine where the crew can have a few beers and tease the imperial storm troopers (Star Wars reference). Being able to take 2-3 hours out of a mission to watch a movie is most certainly a welcome diversion.
For a historical reference look up what happened on Skylab 3 when NASA ground controllers assigned too many tasks to the station crew. After a few days the Skylab 3 crew "went out on strike" for a day and refused to answer any ground communications unless it was an emergency. They needed the downtime to rest and relax. After that incident NASA became a bit more relaxed in how many micromanaged tasks they would burden astronauts with and began to put relaxation time into their mission planning.
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Re:LOL (Score:5, Funny)
You obviously haven't been on a vacation with my wife, her goal is exactly that (much to my frustration).
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Dude, they're ASTRONAUTS. (Score:5, Insightful)
There are people in the world who are just boring and unimaginitive. People who aren't stupid, but just don't think of interesting things to do, and aren't interested in doing them anyway, even if someone else thinks of them and invites them along.
Apparently, the space program has become so routine that such people have found their way there. I've no idea how that's even possible (if you're that dull, what would possess you to apply for astronaut training?)
Uh-huh. Yeah, it's that these astronauts are just boring, mundane, unimaginative people.
Either that, or it's that these astronauts have spent weeks up to their necks in a combination of Awesome, Challenge, and Danger as they float around in fucking OUTER SPACE, fixing an incredible yet delicate scientific instrument that both expands our scientific horizons and blows our minds with crazy images, with their clunky suits and a tether to their space ship being the only thing keeping them alive as they work, and their office view consisting of the little blue globe they call home and the vastness of space.
These peoples' bowel movements are more amazing than anything you do here on earth, and your example of something "interesting" is an attraction at Chuck-E-Cheese?
I mean would you seriously tell an experimental jet test pilot (which many astronauts were before they decided to do something even cooler) who after flying around at supersonic speeds all day pushing both their body and mind to the limit constantly decides that when they land back at base to spend the rest of the day chilling in the rec room watching American Idol, that they're dull?
Maybe, just maybe, after two weeks of being responsible for one of the most complicated machines ever made (which in case I haven't mentioned is a fucking space ship) where every action has the potential to be a matter of life and death on the boundaries of human adaptability, "dull" has a certain appeal, you know, as a change of pace.
Here's my example of unimaginative: Someone who thinks an astronaut has to play "space-tag" to make their life exciting and interesting.
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