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Space NASA Science

STEREO Spacecraft To Explore Earth's L4 and L5 66

Hugh Pickens writes "Launched on October 25, 2006, NASA's twin Solar Terrestrial Relations Observatory (STEREO) spacecraft are about to enter the L4 and L5 Lagrangian points, special points in our orbit around which spacecraft and other objects can loiter because the gravitational pull of earth and the sun balances the forces from the object's orbital motion. (The spacecraft won't linger at the Lagrangian points; they are just passing through.) 'These places may hold small asteroids, which could be leftovers from a Mars-sized planet that formed billions of years ago,' said NASA Project Scientist Michael Kaiser. STEREO will look for asteroids with a wide-field-of-view telescope. 'If we discover the asteroids have the same composition as the Earth and moon, it will support Belbruno and Gott's version of the giant impact theory. The asteroids themselves could well be left-over from the formation of the solar system.' L4 and L5 are also good places to observe space weather. 'With both the sun and Earth in view, we could track solar storms and watch them evolve as they move toward Earth. Also, since we could see sides of the sun not visible from Earth, we would have a few days warning before stormy regions on the solar surface rotate to become directed at Earth,' says Kaiser."
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STEREO Spacecraft To Explore Earth's L4 and L5

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  • Re:May hold? (Score:3, Informative)

    by aicrules ( 819392 ) on Friday April 10, 2009 @08:35AM (#27530005)
    Possibly, but the solar storm monitoring wouldn't be as effective.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 10, 2009 @09:14AM (#27530243)

    L4 and L5 are stable, means that a force pushes objects back in the direction of those points regardless of the direction, because they are a local potential minimum.

    L1, L2, L3 are indeed unstable, but there exists an orbit around those points, which is stable.

  • Re:I wonder, how. (Score:5, Informative)

    by hcpxvi ( 773888 ) on Friday April 10, 2009 @09:15AM (#27530249)
    That (the lagrange points being unstable equilibria) is true of L1, L2 and L3 (all on the Earth-Sun line, L1 between Earth and Sun, L2 outside the Earth's orbit and L3 round the other side of the Sun). L4 and L5, OTOH, are stable equilibria and junk can collect there. The equivalent points for Jupiter have observable collections of asteroids in them.
  • Re:I wonder, how. (Score:2, Informative)

    by fredrik70 ( 161208 ) on Friday April 10, 2009 @09:16AM (#27530261) Homepage

    actually 4 and 5 are stable, from wikipedia:
    In contrast to the collinear Lagrangian points, the triangular points (L4 and L5) are stable equilibria (cf. attractor), provided that the ratio of M1/M2 is greater than 24.96.[5][6] This is the case for the Sunâ"Earth and, by a smaller margin, the Earthâ"Moon systems. When a body at these points is perturbed, it moves away from the point, but the Coriolis effect bends the object's path into a stable, kidney beanâshaped orbit around the point (as seen in the rotating frame of reference). However, in the Earthâ"Moon case, the problem of stability is greatly complicated by the appreciable solar gravitational influence.[7]

    source [wikipedia.org]

  • Re:May hold? (Score:5, Informative)

    by Bakkster ( 1529253 ) <Bakkster@man.gmail@com> on Friday April 10, 2009 @09:30AM (#27530415)

    Since the L4 and L5 points don't move relative to our perspective, any objects we would see there would move very little compared to the background of stars. Movement across a series of telescope images is the usual method for detecting small objects in our solar system, and it can't be used for these locations.

    To detect objects here, you would need to look at images taken over a series of months and centered on the points to find objects that didn't move with the rest of our perspective. This would probably need to be done by a space telescope, since by the time a ground based telescope could see the points, the sun is already rising or still setting. Even then, the objects are only half lit by the sun, due to our angle of viewing, so they would be especially dim. In addition, sending a spacecraft to the area would allow the sattelites to determine the composition of the asteroids to see if they came from an Earth collision or are leftover from the solar system's birth.

  • Re:May hold? (Score:4, Informative)

    by Hynee ( 774168 ) on Friday April 10, 2009 @09:41AM (#27530589) Homepage

    Since the L4 and L5 points don't move relative to our perspective, any objects we would see there would move very little compared to the background of stars.

    They'd move as fast as the sun does through the background stars, for obvious reasons! That's ~1 deg/day.

  • Re:May hold? (Score:3, Informative)

    by Bakkster ( 1529253 ) <Bakkster@man.gmail@com> on Friday April 10, 2009 @10:13AM (#27531029)
    That's a lunar L4 and L5. These satellites are headed to the solar L4 and L5.
  • Re:May hold? (Score:3, Informative)

    by AaxelB ( 1034884 ) on Friday April 10, 2009 @10:15AM (#27531059)
    If I may add, the two points are also really far away. I thought they were somewere within the orbit of the moon, but they're actually just as far away as the sun. (This picture [wikipedia.org] cleared things up nicely.) We could probably tell whether asteroids are there, but for the reasons you mentioned we couldn't find out anything more useful.
  • by ghostlibrary ( 450718 ) on Friday April 10, 2009 @10:42AM (#27531517) Homepage Journal

    As a researching using STEREO data, I wrote a piece on some of the logistics of this, and what we may find.
    http://scientificblogging.com/daytime_astronomer/secrets_l4l5_gravity_wells [scientificblogging.com]

    The summary is: we've already seen a bit in an earlier roll so we know there's stuff there, we lose use of the in-situ to explore L4/L5 so we have to balance that with our core science, there's a higher risk to the detectors due to dust, but what the heck, we have to pass through it anyway. We may find any of: dust, the moon's progenitor, and earth-killer, more dust.

  • by AikonMGB ( 1013995 ) on Friday April 10, 2009 @10:52AM (#27531681) Homepage

    First: The Earth's relationship with the Moon is such that their barycentre is inside the Earth, about 1700 km below the surface.

    Second: L4 and L5 are potential minima, meaning the gravitational potential field increases as you move away from these points. Although the term "well" is misleading, it is certainly more applicable than "hill". It is this increasing potential that leads to the Lyapunov stability of L4 and L5 in the restricted three-body problem. The definition of this kind of stability is that if you are perturbed from equilibrium some small delta less than epsilon, then you will stay within that epsilon band.

    Third: The Earth-Sun Lagrange points currently occupied by satellites are L1 and L2, for perpetual sunlight and perpetual shadow respectively. L1, L2, and L3 are all unstable, hence the necessity for station-keeping of these satellites. As far as I am aware, there are no satellites currently occupying L4 or L5.

    Fourth: Large Impact Theory is just that, a theory. One of the objectives of this mission is to determine if there are small asteroids at L4 and/or L5, which could either lend support to or detract support from this theory. Regardless of whether this event happened or not, the L4 and L5 points still exist for any restricted three-body problem. Case in point: Jupiter-Sun L4 and L5 are filled with the Trojan asteroids [wikipedia.org].

    -Aikon

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