Spaceplane Concept Receives Euro Funding 193
draevil writes "BBC News reports that the novel "Skylon" spaceplane design of British firm Reaction Engines has received funding to proceed with its proof-of-concept design for an air-breathing rocket engine.
If successful, the Sabre rocket engine will be able to take the Skylon with 12 tonnes of cargo from a runway, to orbit and then back to that runway without the need for disposable components or a piggy-back ride on a larger aircraft.
Should the design prove viable, it could see first use within ten years."
They are going to a lot of trouble.... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:But ... Its british. (Score:3, Informative)
I think the only ones who do this stuff successfully are the Americans.
An Australian team has flown a scramjet.
Not much money for a space plane. But good luck Al (Score:5, Informative)
Space Craft [blogknox.com] Blog feeds
Re:They are going to a lot of trouble.... (Score:5, Informative)
It does work on the ground. It is not a scramjet. It is a hybrid between a jet engine and a rocket engine. It uses a jet style rotary compressor. The big innovation appears to be very fine control of the liquid hydrogen injectors into the combustion chamber allowing pressurised but gaseous air to be used instead of the liquefied air/oxygen that all previous rocket designs have needed.
Whole ./ lead-in is a crock... (Score:2, Informative)
The Sabre isn't taking anything into orbit, then, is it...
FTFA..."As the air density falls with altitude the engine eventually switches to a pure rocket propelling Skylon to orbital velocity..."
Re:Whole ./ lead-in is a crock... (Score:3, Informative)
the engine eventually switches to a pure rocket
The best possible case is that it might be able to use air at mach 7. That is one third of orbital velocity. I don't think the word "eventually" is appropriate in this context. In practice I doubt this engine can be an air breather anywhere near that speed.
Re:About Time! (Score:4, Informative)
We have a space plane [wikipedia.org].
No, we have a "Space Shuttle" that is launched vertically from a standard-type large rocket launch facility with a monstrously-huge and expensive to build and operate hybrid solid and liquid rocket launch vehicle.
A hybrid spaceplane using both air-breathing and pure rocket propulsion able to take off and land on a runway like an airplane with no Shuttle-type booster rocket system required is a whole other animal.
Strat
Re:They are going to a lot of trouble.... (Score:5, Informative)
The oxidiser weighs a lot. Take the shuttle for instance, at take-off the shuttle proper weighs 109,000 kg, the external LOX tank? 629,340 kg (just the LOX, not the LH2).
On the ground they won't be moving fast enough to scoop oxygen out of the air
"The Sabre engine is essentially a closed cycle rocket engine with an additional precooled turbo-compressor to provide a high pressure air supply to the combustion chamber. This allows operation from zero forward speed on the runway and up to Mach 5.5 in air breathing mode during ascent."
Re:This is REALLY, REALLY stupid. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:They are going to a lot of trouble.... (Score:3, Informative)
They intend for it to take-off and land like a normal aircraft.
That means that at the start of the trip this vehicle will be in a horizontal position accelerating parallel to the ground.
You're better off thinking of it as an aircraft that can fly really high and turn into a space plane, which as a completely different paradigm from the "rocket pointing skywards and going up as fast as possible".
Re:Maybe it's an air-breathing rocket engine? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Whole ./ lead-in is a crock... (Score:5, Informative)
The engine is air breathing up to mach 5.5, it can do this because of a) it's novel pre-cooler design, and b) because unlike other air breathing designs, it doesn't liquefy the oxygen before using it as fuel, it 'merely' takes it to it's vapour point.
After mach 5.5 it operates as a relatively standard rocket engine up to orbital velocity (~mach 25) but by that point it's high enough that it doesn't have to fight through the thick air near the earth's surface so saves a lot of fuel. This increases the percentage of launch weight that can be used for payload.
Re:Issues in a spaceplane (Score:3, Informative)
Re:About Time! (Score:4, Informative)
Re:About Time! (Score:3, Informative)
The assertion that Europe has the welfare state only because America is covering their defense..
I never stated that it was the only reason, but it does contribute hugely along with confiscatory levels of taxes and other forms of wealth transference from the people to the government.
Finland, for example, has never elected to join in a defense pact with the US. Nonetheless, it has built on its own one of the strongest armies in Europe (defense analysts suggest it could hold off another offense by the Russian army) and a fine welfare state matching in most respects its Nordic neighbors.
Finland bloodied Soviet Russia's nose in failed invasion attempts previously in 1939 and 1941, and enjoys a natural geographic/terrain advantage over an invasion from the direction of Russia. These previous failed invasions by Russia were extremely costly in every way to Finland and have caused Finland to develop a strong cadre-type military with mandatory full-concription and an extremely-strong sense of independence.
The Fins can fight, and will do so under extreme conditions against massive forces that far outnumber and outgun them, and win! I greatly admire the Finnish people. They are a hardy and pragmatic sort that while having suffered great hardships and losses as a nation, plus living where climate conditions can be harsh & unforgiving, are nonetheless open, generous, and friendly. They're also great people to have at your back as allies if trouble starts.
Finland prides itself on its' citizens' ability and readiness if threatened. Finland being so small in population and area relatively speaking, coupled with full-conscription allows it to use military spending very efficiently compared to other countries. This allows them to have the necessary wealth to spare on social programs that is out of proportion with other countries' size & wealth.
Cheers!
Strat
Re:Guaranteed 100% Vapourware (Score:5, Informative)
You're wrong about the engines, the engines are actively cooled at the inlet- they see ground level conditions throughout the flight.
You're also wrong about nitrogen, nitrogen is perfectly good reaction mass up to about Mach 5. Beyond that it tends to come apart. Guess what speed Skylon calls it quits and turns on the rockets?
The other point you're missing is that at low speeds rockets are horribly inefficient; the exhaust velocity is much too high. By using the nitrogen as reaction mass; powered by the hydrogen fuel reacting with atmospheric oxygen Skylon can reduce the exhaust velocity and get massively better efficiency. That means it needs a lot less propellant, and then when it does turn on the rockets, it has performance in hand. The design has twice the payload fraction of a rocket design because of that.