New Type of Particle May Have Been Found 281
An anonymous reader writes "The LHC is out of commission, but the Tevatron collider at Fermilab is still chugging along, and may have just discovered a new type of particle that would signal new physics. New Scientist reports that the Tevatron's CDF detector has found muons that seem to have been created outside of the beam pipe that confines the protons and anti-protons being smashed together. The standard model can't explain the muons, and some speculate that 'an unknown particle with a lifetime of about 20 picoseconds was produced in the collision, traveled about 1 centimeter, through the side of the beam pipe, and then decayed into muons.' The hypothetical particle even seems to have the right mass to account for one theory of dark matter."
coincidence? (Score:0, Interesting)
I just find it odd that with the introduction of a new collider this one has finally found something.
One theory of dark matter eh? (Score:5, Interesting)
The hypothetical particle even seems to have the right mass to account for one theory of dark matter."
Not to ask the blatantly obvious, but if it's the right mass for one theory of dark matter, I can't help but wonder where they are all being produced. Given a life of 20 picoseconds, I can't imagine that there would be monstrous factories of these things all over the universe to account for the stupidly large amount of mass they are supposed to account for. How come we haven't found them before?
Re:coincidence? (Score:5, Interesting)
Warning: the following is from memory, so details may be off. The gist of it is correct.
There's a section in "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman" where he goes to see the collider at the new school he's just arrived at. The collider at the school he came from is state of the art, so he's expecting something even better at the new school, because they have been producing many remarkable, cutting edge, results.
The collider he finds is small, and far from state of the art, and almost held together by duct tape and chewing gum. He realizes that this is why it has produced such remarkable results--the scientists that work with it are very hands on, getting down and dirty with the experiments, coaxing every last bit out of them. The scientists using the shiny new state of the art collider are sitting back in their offices, just getting disembodied data that they haven't really connected with, and don't understand on a gut level like their colleagues using the "inferior" equipment do.
Feynman knew then he was going to happy at the new school.
Re:coincidence? (Score:5, Interesting)
I work in electrical engineering, and unfortunately very few people play with scopes and irons anymore. "Hardware" engineering is mostly abstract concept juggling on computers these days.
I'm the guy with the 45 year old tube scope with Nixie tube digital readout and the two soldering irons...
New Physics (Score:4, Interesting)
I conjecture that it's the same old physics, and that we only understand it a bit better.
Re:coincidence? (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm an engineer. I can use most of the equipment in the office except the soldering iron. I tried a few times and messed up a few things. Wasted some pads. Learned my lesson. Let the experts do their thing. I have mine...
Re:One theory of dark matter eh? (Score:4, Interesting)
kipman, I did not ask for an explanation of global warming. I am curious as to what effects space radiation has on our solar system, and in turn, our planet. Feel free to assume that every conversation about the planet earth is or should be able man's contribution to the global warming effect. You may also feel free to consider that there is more to science than answering politically charge questions. More often than not scientists simply want to answer a question to know the answer... whatever their personal beliefs. I'm not confused at all. I'm not looking for a cause of global warming. I'm asking what effects various types of radiation have on our Sun and solar system... and in turn, on our planet.
Until not long ago it was not thought that anything escaped a black hole, now we know different. Fortunately we've not been in the middle of the full force of some of that radiation in the past few hundred million years (that we know of). There are some fantastically energetic radiation sources in the Universe, and understanding how they might affect us is an important thing. Perhaps as important or more so than tracking any objects that might collide with the Earth.
Now, we find new particles and the question is how do they interact with other matter in the Universe/Solar System. What effect will they have on our understanding of physics etc. Your dismissal of the thought is rather boorish. This might bring you close to being up to speed: http://www.jrmooneyham.com/ctctgam.html [jrmooneyham.com] or at least give you a clue.
Re:coincidence? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Very exciting, but... (Score:3, Interesting)
In order to be applicable to Dark Matter theories, the particle would need to be traveling at near light-speed for the lifetime to be long enough to matter. But if it's traveling that fast, the mass would have changed and no longer fit the theory. However, if the relative velocity is low enough for the mass to be right, it simply isn't going to last long enough to have any impact.
Besides which, I suspect further discoveries in cosmology will reduce - and eventually eliminate - any need for dark matter. Galaxy formation already got something of a re-write not too long ago, and it was galaxy formation that was one of the areas that "needed" dark matter to explain. Grabity - err, gravity - didn't seem to be sufficient in the earlier models. Other models, such as the forming of particles and any biases that might apply, have also been modified. We also know more about the distribution of new stars in a galaxy than we did back then. One can assume the dark matter theorists have redone the calculations to see how all of these different effects alter the models, but when was the last time you saw an article on such a recalculation?
Needless to say, I do not believe in dark matter. I'm willing to be convinced, if it can be shown that all these adjustments are asymptotic to values that still cannot describe what we observe to be true, or if this "dark matter" can be observed in the laboratory. But until then, it seems prudent to be skeptical once you know that the calculations used to predict dark matter were incorrect and there is no clear-cut evidence of recalculations being done with better data.
1 cm in 20 pico secs..? not so fast..?! (Score:5, Interesting)
an unknown particle with a lifetime of about 20 picoseconds was produced in the collision, traveled about 1 centimeter
That is 16000 times faster than light..!
Re:coincidence? (Score:4, Interesting)
Digikey sells them. They're pretty cheap:
http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T083/P2246.pdf [digikey.com]
The X(3872) Particle (Score:5, Interesting)
There are several mysterious particles that aren't easily identified by the Standard Model. One in particular is the X(3872) particle, which was discovered by Japanese scientists and confirmed by other laboratories. It might be a tetraquark particle or even a meson molecule, but scientists are just guessing for now.
http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/breaking/2008/04/13/the-charming-case-of-x3872/ [symmetrymagazine.org]
Re:coincidence? (Score:4, Interesting)
I just find it odd that with the introduction of a new collider this one has finally found something.
Right, because the Tevatron hasn't found anything at all in the past 25 years. Ever hear of the top quark? Remember that article a year ago about the "Cascade B" particle? You may have seen it, it was on Slashdot.
Re:coincidence? (Score:3, Interesting)
I can (or at least used to be able to) do weapons spec aka NASA spec soldering. That said, as an electronics tech back then, when a "real" (not prototype) board needed rework, I brought it over to one of the "rework" ladies (Betty or Tasha), along with the replacement part, and a "rework order", and let the pros do the work. Trust me, I was good with a soldering iron (Hence being able to pass the WS soldering course), but the pros "On the line" made me look like a chump. Heck, those 2 ladies made the rest of the people on the fabrication line look like chumps, which is why they were the people you tool re-work too
Now my eyesight is gone, my hands shake - what used to be easy now take one of those lighted magnifing rings and a way to brace my hands, and when it comes to SMT stuff, I really want one of the nice 10x binocular stands with all the trimmings like we had, and I didn't need back when I was 25 years younger (Getting old sucks)
Re:1 Centimeter in 20 Picoseconds... (Score:4, Interesting)
1) 20 picoseconds is a half life (so it has a 50% chance of decaying every 20 picoseconds).
2) Time slows down for a fast moving particle. This was one of the first pieces of evidence for special relativity:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Relativ/muon.html [gsu.edu]