Depressed Astronauts Might Get Computerized Solace 138
alphadogg writes "Clinical tests on a four-year, $1.74 million project for NASA, called the Virtual Space Station, are expected to begin in the Boston area by next month. The effort is designed to address the onset of depression in astronauts while they are in outer space. In the project, sponsored by the National Space Biomedical Research Institute, a recorded video therapist guides astronauts through a widely used depression therapy called 'problem-solving treatment.'" Here's a related story from a few weeks ago. Those astronauts got it rough.
Depressed astronauts? (Score:1, Funny)
This morning I read about a dog that was put on antidepressants. I thought to myself about how hard it must be to be a dog. Wake up whenever you want. Get fed at regular intervals. The only job requirement is that you show a modicum of glee when your owner is around. What does a dog get depressed about?
People who have the best job in the world (and out of this world) really don't get much sympathy from me when they complain about the job.
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Best job in the world? I disagree. I'd rather win the lottery and do nothing for the rest of my years then be an astronaut. That is if I could choose
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Re:Depressed astronauts? (Score:5, Interesting)
An alternative interpretation would be, a job acts like a cage (retricting what you can think and do) and a caged animal feels depression, at lack of freedom. So its not that people are or are not evolved to be happy, its that people are not evolved to be caged in a job.
Sounds like its time you found a new cage!
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An alternative interpretation would be, a job acts like a cage (retricting what you can think and do) and a caged animal feels depression, at lack of freedom. So its not that people are or are not evolved to be happy, its that people are not evolved to be caged in a job.
My take is that would be a wrong interpretation. The job isn't a cage in this example, it is merely perceived as one.
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http://www.amazon.com/Corporate-Cults-Insidious-All-Consuming-Organization/dp/0814404936 [amazon.com]
I think all societies requires
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I see what you are saying, but I would say that although we can leave one cage, we still must find another cage, as we don't have the money to live without a zoo cage. (Plus most cages have similar 9-5 etc.. rules). So in this sense, the cage is real, due to the need for money to survive. Which giving people with money (we need) the power to dictate rules to us.
When we are in a zoo cage, while we can choose how to solve (some/most) problems, the
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I see what you are saying, but I would say that although we can leave one cage, we still must find another cage, as we don't have the money to live without a zoo cage.
That is incorrect. Living is not that expensive even in the developed world. A little financial discipline and those chains of work cannot bind.
When we are in a zoo cage, while we can choose how to solve (some/most) problems, the problems we are asked to solve and assigned are often defined by the ones with power over us/ We simply fix problems to be paid. True freedom would be that we choose the problems we wish to solve. Often in some jobs, we are not even free to solve some problems in certain ways. So while we can gain some fun from jobs, its not the same as true freedom to solve problems. That we can do, in our spare time (if we have any).
OTOH, the problems we are asked to solve in a real job are problems that someone somewhere needs to have solved. We are needed. Things we do for fun are usually not needed.
I wonder what the world would be like if everyone didn't need to work (ie. didn't need money and food/housing etc.. resources were provided to everyone). So everyone was free to be as creative as they wished (within the limits of the outer social cage). I suspect there would be a lot more open collaboration, as nothing would be hidden in the name of profit. Unfortunately I suspect the people who like power over other people, would not want such a world, as they would simply be one of the group and no longer of any extra importance than anyone else. I suspect they would always work to prevent such an open world ever completely existing, even if we could ever have such a world. They would sell the control to us, on the basis of fear (fear of people free to think and do creative things), but that fear would ultimately be driven by their need to maintain control.
In other words, you just made my point again for me.
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The key phrase is ... "but that works only if we let it" ... We don't have a choice.
Clearly wrong. I don't even understand why you attempt this claim. Being able to move from one job to another is an effective way to chose. If you don't like the rules at one workplace, then move to a workplace that doesn't have the rules you don't like. And we don't need to work for someone. You can always work for yourself or not at all.
Most people do not earn much at all past their basic cost of living. Compare wages earned per year minus cost of basic survival per year. A rare few (mostly bosses) will be able to save many dozens of times as much as most people earn per year. (e.g. Person A = 22k, Person B=100k, cost of living=20k), therefore person A saves 2k per year and person B saves 80k per year.
Cost of living would not be the same for Person A and B. Even so, Person A can save 10% of his salary a year. 10 years of that, invested in the stock market, and Person A
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I find it interesting you don't understand my point. While specific rules are different in different jobs, most jobs, in most industries, are usually very similar variations of each other. I've lost count of the number of times, different employers have said to me, that a certain aspect of how the company works, is the standard way, for that industry. (Its an excuse of course, but that is all part of the negotiating game). For example, all
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I find it interesting you don't understand my point. While specific rules are different in different jobs, most jobs, in most industries, are usually very similar variations of each other. I've lost count of the number of times, different employers have said to me, that a certain aspect of how the company works, is the standard way, for that industry. (Its an excuse of course, but that is all part of the negotiating game). For example, all games industry programmers, in whatever job they go to, do not get payed overtime. Also overtime is a very expected part of the rush to meet deadlines. Excuses are given like, programmer are payed more, as compensation for the overtime. But its a total industry wide lie. Programmers in the games industry, when there wages are divided by total hours worked, often end up on a similar hourly wages, as very unskilled jobs, even sometimes as bad as jobs like shelf stacker's in supermarkets. Of course, the bosses are simply saying no payed overtime, as they don't want to pay overtime. To the bosses its simply a negotiating strategy, to say no payed overtime in the industry. Plus the bosses then also say that anyone who leaves the games industry, is suffering burnout. Its not burnout at all, its simply they are wising up the nature of how they are getting exploited. But then for all the employees years of experience, they still struggle to earn a good living in a new industry. Even leaving one industry, to go into another industry doesn't totally remove the similarities between working conditions for employees, as all employers in every industry are playing similar games, to negotiate wages down for their benefit. This is why many industries (and not just programmers) suffer from working cultures that get called a corporate cult.
You continue to ignore my fundamental point. You can walk away from the cult. You don't have to be a game programmer. For it to be a cage, you have to be unable to do that.
"Cost of living would not be the same for Person A and B." Sorry that is fundamentally flawed thinking. Person A would like the same cost of living as person B. People have to survive. That costs money. Anything beyond basic survival is an extra. Everyone has the same basic survival needs. Any money beyond this is extra. Everyone would like more money, beyond basic cost of survival, but most do not earn much beyond basic cost of survival.
Everyone could live on self-sufficient small farms. Then the only expenses would be taxes and modest amounts for replacing equipment (you wouldn't need industrial farm scale equipment). Cost of living in the US, for example, probably could be dropped to 2-5k per year per person.
The 100k per year person likely lives in a more expensive reg
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Sounds like its time you found a new cage! :) ... while its still a cage, the new surroundings may make it feel like a better cage.... that is, until you can find a way to live without the need of a cage... I'm still looking for the answer to that one, like most people. :)
A bigger cage... I can't even see the bars! [reliccommunity.com]
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After a while you would become depressed because your money is the wrong color. man have simply not evolved to be happy. depression is clearly not a new fad. People hated their jobs in the 12th century and still do.
That's absolutely true - but I think an extra problem for these guys is being stuck somewhere without the usual things we can try to make depressed people feel better (like go on holiday, buy a dog, get some exercise, change your life, etc), and the danger of somebody mission critical being out of action for a prolonged period.
So while it's an old problem - I think it has new complications. I wonder if there's any historical documentation of depression on long sea voyages and what was done about it.
Re:Depressed astronauts? (Score:5, Funny)
"Hell, how are you supposed to do something as simple as crank out out when you have to worry about catching it all or it may jam an instrument panel?"
Stealth fapping tech is inevitable. A cross between a Fleshlight and a milking machine should do the job.
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Just make it a requirement that only married people can become astronauts.
That way the lack of sex will be normal and expected.
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"Just make it a requirement that only married people can become astronauts.
That way the lack of sex will be normal and expected."
Two words:
Lisa Nowak
Re:Depressed astronauts? (Score:5, Informative)
Depression is not always about something. That's the thing. Sometimes people just feel like total shit without there being a clear reason for it.
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http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/320/7245/1340/a
Disturbing, that is, not only because it probably won't work, its a huge waste of money, and there's
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Probably has something to do with being stuck on a small metal coffin for several months.
How much do you think a video recording of someone speaking costs ?
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Depression is always about something. Even if the person suffering from it has no idea why, doesn't mean there isn't a reason.
Re:Depressed astronauts? (Score:5, Funny)
People who have the best job in the world (and out of this world) really don't get much sympathy from me when they complain about the job.
Never underestimate several people in a small capsule farting over many days. Sometimes depression will make your eyes burn.
Submariners might be better (Score:5, Insightful)
That's the thing, perhaps NASA is selecting from the wrong pool of people to put into small capsules for long periods of time.
Instead of picking from the usual air force sort of people maybe they should be picking candidates from nuclear submarines.
Might be easier to find a submariner that can be trained to fly than to find an air force sort of person willing to put up with being stuck in a claustrophobic tube for months with no way out except "Mission over" or death.
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Forget the submariners, get a battleship crew [wikipedia.org] up there. They'll know what to do.
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Depends on the dog. Some are real working breeds, as most herder dogs, like the Border Collies, some are bred as guard dogs. If they don't do those jobs they can get pretty neurotic, rounding up little kids in the neighborhood or not letting anyone near the property they're on.
Some dogs just become anxiety ridden when left alone and tear into the furniture, bedding. whatever to relieve themselves.
You might even find the term "Prozac Puppies" on the Wiki.
As regards the astronauts, think again about what ki
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Dear me, what a quaint and outdated view of what depression is and how it works. Are you one of those people who assume that addiction is merely a matter of will power? Or are you and Tom Cruise shacking up together to discuss the fallacies of modern psychology.
Thank you for reminding us how people treated the ill back in the 1800's.
Addiction is a matter of willpower (Score:3, Insightful)
Addiction is a matter of willpower. Find me an addict who has kicked and stayed clean for a length of time who doesn't directly reference their own willingness to quit as a determinant.
That doesn't mean it's only about willpower, but your claim simply has no merit.
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Did you have troble with the meaning of the word 'merely' in my post or were you in such a hurry tripping over yourself to get in a word that you missed it?
And find me someone who's kicked their heroin addiction purely on the basis of will power. Someone who won't feel the craving the rest of their life, not just someone who's learned to fight it.
You made my point and ruined your own (Score:1)
"Someone who won't feel the craving for the rest of their life, not just someone who's learned to fight it"
So you're saying I won't be able to find anyone who was able to kick their addiction without requiring the willpower to fight it daily?
I know that, thanks for making my point.
As to the "merely", its presence doesn't make your point less wrong, nor mine less correct.
Why are you getiing pissy just because I proved you wrong? It's very childish.
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I take that to mean that you had trouble with the meaning of merely since if you understood it you would have realized that your argument has zip to do with what I said.
Here's a hint. When someone is saying sarcastically: "Are you one of those people who assume that addiction is merely a matter of will power?" in the tone that indicates someone saying yes is to be derided. That is a good clue that the person speaking believes that overcoming addiction requires more than simple willpower. Not that the person
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Problem is, depression can effect willpower.
Re:Depressed astronauts? (Score:5, Informative)
The standard treatment for depression is medicine AND therapy. There might be room on board for a bottle of Lexapro but not for Counselor Troi. So that's the aspect they're working on. I don't see anything outdated about what they're doing.
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I can say long-term college enrollment includes basically all the known triggers to depression - stress, isolation, sleep deprivation, lack of sunlight. And there's problem-solving steps you can do to mitigate each of these.
Namely, switching out of an engineering major.
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Nor do I, which is why my post was a response to someone poo pahing the idea [slashdot.org] and not to the idea itself.
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Re:Depressed astronauts? (Score:5, Insightful)
Wake up whenever you want. Get fed at regular intervals. The only job requirement is that you show a modicum of glee when your owner is around. What does a dog get depressed about?
Dogs are not people (or specifically, not you) and they don't share what you out of life. The breeds we have were bred for certain jobs like herding, hunting, or killing vermin. In general they weren't bred to be companion dogs. They desperately want to do this job and without that fulfillment, they have problems. I don't know if that specifically can cause depression, but I could see it.
I guess my point is, without actually having BEEN a dog or an Astronaut on a space station, it's difficult to know exactly what they go through. So I wouldn't be so quick to judge.
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I don't know if depression is the right word, but I guess it's possible--when a working dog is kept from doing its "job" or getting exercise it could develop any of a whole range of problems.
Putting a dog on antidepressants sounds like fixing a symptom rather than what's really wrong with the animal.
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And it's use in humans is not? Sometimes fixing the problem isn't practical or something that we know how to do, sometimes the best you can do is work to make the situation manageable and bearable.
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One thing that I know causes depression, or attributes to depression anyway, is just plain old exercise.
If you are a very active person, out in the sun running or doing whatever else, and then you have inactivity forced upon you, injury, too much work, being stuck in a tiny shuttle hundreds of thousands of miles from earth, or even locked in a cage while your master goes to work, the lack of endorphins can trigger depression. I know depression in general is more complex than that, but once I noticed this pa
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Simple solution to exercise and the ability to "run around the neighborhood" is to have a running ring that has artificial gravity created by centripetal force. That way, instead of limited exercise, you have an actual "gravity" room to run and exercise in. Not sure if the physics work, but it seemed like a simple solution.
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Honestly, Depression (which it seems everyone failed to grasp) is more about chemical imbalances, and genetics in some cases then their lifestyle.
That's what anti-depressants are for, to counteract the imbalance.
Companionship (Score:3, Insightful)
How about just flying up the occasional prostitute for "group therapy"? They could do what they do with astronauts and rotate which country she is from, etc.
Re:Companionship (Score:4, Interesting)
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I think online gaming would be excellent for someone feeling lonely and depressed. I have played my share of online games, have community friends. For the duration that I'm playing, it feels as if I am not in my mom's basement and out there, with friends.
After all, my mom's policy on sex in the house is similar to that of NASA, albeit in space.
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I think online gaming would be excellent for someone feeling lonely and depressed.
The ping times in space are absolutely terrible, due to the finite speed of light and the large distances involved. (For example, the light-delay to Mars varies - due to the differing orbits - between 3.1 and 22.5 minutes! Or so Google claims.)
They'd be better off having a LAN party.
Interplanetary lag (Score:3, Insightful)
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When mars is between 36 and 250 million miles from Earth at any given time, and light speed is 11,176,943 miles per minute [google.com], that gives you an average lag of 3 to 22 minutes or so? That's nothing! Any REAL gamer can deal with that.
Re:Companionship (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, that's just what we need.
One fuck up in contraception and all the sudden you've got the first interstellar birth with a kid that's doomed to spend the rest of their life on another planet, the mom and/or it doesn't die. You want to think about how hard it is to get baby vomit out of instrumentation?
Or are we going to try the Chinese route and sterlize everyone going up? I'm sure that'll help the ranks of volunteers swell.
Or hey! Here's an idea, shove the possibility of romance related tensions into missions where people are already going to be living almost right on top of each other. I'm sure between the stress of the mission, the complete lack of privacy, and love triangles there couldn't possibly be anything that could go wrong there.
After Lisa Hardwick flipped out over her relationship issues on the ground, you really think NASA has enough of a pulse on their people that they can pick the right group that won't snap up there?
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Also I'll take a note from the late Arthur C Clarke, all astronauts were required to be sterilized before any space missions. So there wouldn't be any problems with babies and high radiation in space. If any astronauts wanted to have kids after the mission they would need to have some eggs and sperm frozen beforehand.
Not the chinese, but the island method (Score:2)
The islands of lesbos and sapphos prerrably
an all woman crew nips the pregancny thing in the bud- and purportedly women are better suited for space travel than men anyway.
and if it happens, well, think of the ancillary rights!
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"Or are we going to try the Chinese route and sterlize everyone going up? I'm sure that'll help the ranks of volunteers swell."
Obviously I can't speak for anyone else, but I think that's a great idea and wouldn't affect my willingness to volunteer at all. Choice A) Go into space vs. Choice B) stay here and be a slave to a family for the rest of my life ... hmmmm ... tough one!
There's lots of people who give up family voluntarily for careers and I also think that for a lot of people the dream of space explor
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Great! Hopefully he will get rescued and raised by Martians and return to Earth to start a sex cult.
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The simple thing to do is just keep them occupied with more duties so you can control their...
*****SPACE*****
***MADNESS***
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One fuck up in contraception and all the sudden you've got the first interstellar birth with a kid that's doomed to spend the rest of their life on another planet.
Well, if we're going to colonize the galaxy, we've got to start *somewhere*.
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The only thing I've ever known NASA to declare is that
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It is, after all, one of the greatest joys in life.
Yeah, and it also sparks jealousy and fights.
So, clearly only swingers need apply for the Mars mission. And the guys... snip snip.
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Simpler solution, on board Real Dolls.
You don't want some angry pimpnaut flying up to kick your ass do you?
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Rotate the country? (Score:2)
They could do what they do with astronauts and rotate which country she is from, etc.
Pfft - it's about time Sweeden started contributing to this so-called "International" space station.
Joy Joy Feelings (Score:1, Funny)
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EMACS- what problem can't it solve? (Score:4, Funny)
M-x doctor [emacswiki.org] always did it for me.
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Eliza is a tease
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internet access in space? (Score:2)
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This was previously discussed: http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/09/06/2255254&from=rss [slashdot.org]
Presumably, they have filtering for "appropriate content"
Quick, cheap, and easy alternative (Score:4, Funny)
CHEER UP, EMO ASTRONAUTS!
You have the coolest freaking job in the whole damn stupid world.
Untold thousands of nerds would do anything to get where you are, but the closest they'll ever get are sewing together their own Star Trek uniforms.
Get over your damn selves, and get back to being awesome.
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I don't think people shouting "buhbuhbuh SPACE!" realise the implications of spending years physically isloated from the rest of civilisation and trapped in the single most claustrophobic environment in the galaxy...
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I don't think people shouting "buhbuhbuh SPACE!" realise the implications of spending years physically isloated from the rest of civilisation and trapped in the single most claustrophobic environment in the galaxy...
You must have missed the part where the poster mentioned they were Trekkies.
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It's trekkers [wikipedia.org], damnit! Stop oppressing us!
PS- I'm not actually a fan. I only like William Shatner's more recent work ;)
I swear I read this as "Depressurized Astronauts" (Score:3, Funny)
and I thought, "Geez, that's nice of em, but..."
Computerized Solace? (Score:4, Funny)
This really just sounds like a fancy name for porn.
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You can get computerized Solace, but I'm pretty sure it's only for Mac. [mofunzone.com]
Right.... (Score:3, Insightful)
" the project, sponsored by the National Space Biomedical Research Institute, a recorded video therapist guides astronauts through a widely used depression therapy called 'problem-solving treatment.'""
On Earth, we just call it porn.
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Yeah, but in space you'd have to design an entire device for collection so you don't have spooge floating around the space station. That'd likely foul up some equipment somewhere.
I'm pretty sure the logistics of a micro-gravity wank in an enclosed space with sensitive equipment is far more challenging than simply giving the astronauts porn. :-P
Cheers
I just call it supid. (Score:2, Insightful)
Let's see... they're depressed, at least partly because they feel trapped and isolated, so you use a COMPUTER to remind them that not only are they isolated, but you don't care enough to have a live human talk to them?
What moron came up with this?
One Word (Score:1, Funny)
Teledildonics
Naw, drugs (Score:3, Interesting)
Worked in Outland. Just remember to put on your helmet.
Or wall-projected golf and a nightclub.
Despite the "world's coolest job" posts, I'm more on the Philip K. Dick side that thinks months in a can will truly suck and they'll have ad agencies lying through their teeth to get people up to the mining colonies.
Wait until it starts singing (Score:2)
When it starts singing "Daisy" then it is time to abandon ship.
Reminds me of a story about Apollo astronauts (Score:4, Insightful)
I remember hearing a story about several of the Apollo astronauts experiencing problems with depression. I guess after walking on the freaking moon, making gravy train money on the lecture circuit doesn't give you the same sense of accomplishment.
I guess in this case Willy Wonka was full of shit. Getting everything you want in life doesn't always lead to "happily ever after"
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That would depress me to some extent.
Robot psychiatrist ... (Score:2)
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Sun shine. (Score:1)
response (Score:2, Funny)
Well, that's unique.. (Score:2)
NASA cant afford to put people into space, but (Score:1)
easy....let them play WoW when the need to unstres (Score:1)
WoW is the greatest game ever, let them play this game, and I guarantee you they will never be depressed.
Re:easy....let them play WoW when the need to unst (Score:2)
Sure, but they'll also suffer about a 40% drop in efficiency ratings.
Dr. Sbaitso? (Score:1)
Dr. Sbaitso, space edition. Perfect!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Sbaitso.gif [wikipedia.org]
Cure for Space Madness... ? (Score:2)
They could play some computer games to get their minds off of the relentless isolation of empty space in an eerie, cramped space station.
System Shock, perhaps.
still alive? (Score:2)
how about your buddy, the cube?
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