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Biotech Science

Studies Confirm That Bad Boys Get More Girls 960

Posted by kdawson
from the or-maybe-they-just-lie-better dept.
seattlle foodie sends along a New Scientist article outlining two recent studies that confirm what many have long suspected: bad boys get the most girls. "The finding may help explain why a nasty suite of antisocial personality traits known as the 'dark triad' persists in the human population, despite their potentially grave cultural costs. The traits are: the self-obsession of narcissism; the impulsive, thrill-seeking, and callous behavior of psychopaths; and the deceitful and exploitative nature of Machiavellianism. At their extreme, these traits would be highly detrimental for life in traditional human societies. People with these personalities risk being shunned by others and shut out of relationships, leaving them without a mate, hungry and vulnerable to predators."
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Studies Confirm That Bad Boys Get More Girls

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  • That's nice (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 21, 2008 @12:34PM (#23886549)

    But it is not an excuse. Women who repeatedly get used in these types of relationships and then go cry to their geek friends deserve no sympathy. They should be smart enough to figure it out.

  • Re:That's nice (Score:5, Insightful)

    by packeteer (566398) <{packeteer} {at} {subdimension.com}> on Saturday June 21, 2008 @12:36PM (#23886577)

    Then you shoudl be smart enough to not fall for a cute chick who is gorgeuos and seems cool but really just used you for your money right? Look it happens to the best of us because it is ingrained in us. Women who are abused are not the ones to blame. They are the ones who have the power to stop it but they are not really to blame.

  • translation (Score:4, Insightful)

    by jaemmer (933127) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @12:39PM (#23886597)
    let me translate this... so their self-confident, exciting, and maybe appear to be rich
  • Re:This is why... (Score:1, Insightful)

    by alex4u2nv (869827) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @12:39PM (#23886599) Homepage

    sex.

  • Re:but.. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by alex4u2nv (869827) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @12:44PM (#23886641) Homepage

    Its not really the "bad boy" like the article claims.

    Girls are attracted to that guy who steps on everybody's toes for his own personal gains. A go getter, powerful person who aims high. These are people with leadership qualities, and in the "badboy" circle, they're "ring leaders."

    Girls run after these guys because with such a mate, her offsprings would have a better chance of survival.

  • by jez9999 (618189) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @12:46PM (#23886661) Homepage Journal

    bad boys get the most girls.
    "The finding may help explain why a nasty suite of antisocial personality traits known as the 'dark triad' persists in the human population, despite their potentially grave cultural costs. [...]
    People with these personalities risk being shunned by others and shut out of relationships, leaving them without a mate, hungry and vulnerable to predators."

    Does it help you get laid, or what??

  • by LordZardoz (155141) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @12:46PM (#23886663)

    If you have a large enough population of players where nearly everyone plays co-operate, the 2 or 3 assholes who play to betray do quite well. They only pay the price if they play the same opponent a few times. Without paying the price, they will do quite well.

    END COMMUNICATION

  • by the_humeister (922869) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @12:48PM (#23886685)
    What may seem "obvious" does not necessarily make it so upon further testing. These studies are performed to confirm or deny such notions. If the study had found the opposite, you would not be having such a reaction. People used to think it was "obvious" that heavier objects fell faster than lighter objects. Turns out that they were wrong.
  • by green1 (322787) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @12:50PM (#23886705)

    Although this is common knowledge to most males, women constantly state that this is in fact false, and not only do they say it, they seem to truly believe it. Of course this "belief" seems to have no basis in reality as they talk to their "nice" guy friends about how they wish they could just find a "nice" guy, all the while ignoring him to chase the guys they constantly complain about...

    yes... I've had that speech from women far too often "you're so nice, why can't the guys I date be more like you?" (ummm... maybe you would consider dating the person you want your guys to be like???)

  • Quantity ... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 21, 2008 @12:51PM (#23886709)

    I'd say go for the Quality instead - all you need is just one, for the long term.

  • by REJOSU (759953) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @12:52PM (#23886721)
    Precisely, I first figured this out to some extent in High School where my strategy at time time evolved to make fun of the girl I liked at the time the most to no end.

    It turns out, women are so self-conscious in High School that, even seeming that you are at some point where you are able to display that you better than them, they immediately want to latch on.

    I have since grown from this pattern, which works, for a select purpose.

    Some women will never grow up, and if you want to have one like that, what worked in High School, will probably work now.

    For the most part, however, women do mature to a point where a good provider is the best choice for her.
  • Re:but.. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by smitty_one_each (243267) * on Saturday June 21, 2008 @12:54PM (#23886735) Homepage Journal

    These are people with leadership qualities
    Indeed. One seemingly stupid definition of a leader I once heard is: "Someone with followers".
    Look at all of the nitwits in the culture, of all genders and races, who have attention lavished upon them because of bad behavior.
    The word 'leader' is used so often in a positive context that no one thinks on nitwits as leaders, albeit of a negative sort.
    In a capitalistic society, where money is the only meaningful metric, there is no incentive for these leaders to improve behavior.
    Kevin Federline and Eminem (because accusations of racism are a total bore when trying to discuss responsibility) are going to continue to behave as nitwits as long as they're getting paid to do so.
    So let's give all these useless fellows a healthy dose of "ignore" and instead celebrate responsibility in manhhod.
    [10 seconds later, the destructive trends reassert themselves...]
  • by NewbieProgrammerMan (558327) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @01:03PM (#23886793)

    That's too bad--it sounds like all the data about sex life is self-reported, so if they did comment on whether the sex was consensual, I'm sure it would totally be a valid conclusion. After all, bad boys would never be inclined to lie about their sexual conquests and prowess on a study questionnaire.

  • by cayenne8 (626475) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @01:11PM (#23886859) Homepage Journal
    "Some women will never grow up, and if you want to have one like that, what worked in High School, will probably work now.

    For the most part, however, women do mature to a point where a good provider is the best choice for her."

    I think if it was a 'maturity' thing...it would be MUCH less prevalent in woman as they get older. I do not, for the most part, find this to be true. Look how many women are attracted to just the image of a 'bad boy' on the tv, movie or sports arena. These aren't just teeny-boppers...these are full grown mature women. And lets not forget...women mature faster than us guys both phyically AND mentally...I personally don't think we catch up them ever in most ways, but, that's what more tells me that this attraction to the bad guy is a maturity thing. Is it somewhat genetic? I dunno...but, it is something that from what I see, never is grown out of. I still have one girlfriend (we're both of mature age by now), and she still goes after that 'bad boy' type...but, by now, is reaching for younger guys to fullfill that bad boy image, yet is somehow still puzzled when they hang with her for awhile...and then drop her for someone else...

  • Re:OK fine (Score:4, Insightful)

    by pembo13 (770295) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @01:11PM (#23886861) Homepage
    Money (not all the times, but most)
  • Re:That's nice (Score:5, Insightful)

    by vertinox (846076) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @01:13PM (#23886885)

    They should be smart enough to figure it out.

    I'm not sure if this was something from a Buddhist monk, but I always took it to heart:

    "The first step to having free will is to admit you have none"

    The point is that if you ignore your instincts(or 300 years of evolutionary programming) you will never over come it. You first must become aware of your limitations and natural impulses so that you can deal with them.

    If you become aware of such things then you are able to take a 3rd person view of yourself when such natural instincts arise and then are better able to deal with the situation with a clear head.

  • by ciaohound (118419) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @01:13PM (#23886889)

    Your elision makes it appear contradictory. Your post really should have included the critical "At their extreme, these traits would be highly detrimental for life in traditional human societies" bit. But hey, eliding is fun! Here, watch me do it:

    "People with these personalities risk being shunned by [...] predators."

    Presto! Not at all what the article is saying!

  • by Original Replica (908688) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @01:15PM (#23886913) Journal
    as they talk to their "nice" guy friends about how they wish they could just find a "nice" guy, all the while ignoring him to chase the guys they constantly complain about...

    Speaking as someone who was a "nice guy" all through highschool, it's the fault of the nice guy as well. Why buy the cow if the milk is free? If a "nice guy" is going to be a "good friend" and supply emotional support/fulfillment then the cute girl doesn't have to have that need met by her conceited prick boyfriend. Girls who date pricks will always want to have a nice guy friend, because girls need emotional fulfillment in the same way that guys need sexual fulfillment. So all you nice guys out there stop giving it away for free, get your needs met as well or get out of that relationship. When they say "you're so nice, why can't the guys I date be more like you?" point out that emotionally they are dating you, they just happen to be fucking someone else.
  • Well, I RTFA (Score:5, Insightful)

    by BlueParrot (965239) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @01:19PM (#23886947)

    Bullshit conclusion. I have not had many partners during the last couple of years, but it wasn't because nobody was attracted to me, rather it was because I was in a relationship that lasted more than 3 years. The findings in the study could just as well be explained by suggesting women don't stay in a relationship with an asshole, or that the assholes don't bother with long term relationships, resulting in "bad guys" having multiple short relationships while the "nice" guys have fewer longer ones. You really can't conclude much about women's preferences from this.

  • Re:but.. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by synaptic (4599) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @01:19PM (#23886951) Homepage

    Most women do not consciously realize they select a mate on these criteria, but they do. So do men. There is a lot more compulsive, animal behavior in humans than we care to admit.

    Women do sit around and discuss it, just not necessarily in terms of genetics. But when women think or say "he's so strong", "he has a big dick", "i can control him so he'll stick around and help with the baby", etc.. Think about what these ultimately mean to a female and why she may be attracted to them.

    Whether you are aware of it or not, these cues tell you that your children with that mate "will have all the advantages they need to edge out those mutants from down the block"!

  • by gatkinso (15975) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @01:20PM (#23886955)

    The people in question ARE the predators.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 21, 2008 @01:27PM (#23887011)

    Is this new really to anyone?

    Women always say they want a man that is nice, helpful, respectful and will treat them right. But, you see it time after time...they go for the guys that are assholes, abusive (sometimes even physically).

    I personally like to be a 'nice guy'. But, in my early years...I would often find myself ending up as the "friend" of the girl, and ended up listening to them go on and on about how much of a jerk this guy or that guy was, yet they still went with and slept with these guys. And, once you are in the friend zone before sleeping with them, you generally never get out of that zone.

    I tried after all that, to emulate somewhat the actions and attitudes I saw the successful 'assholes' did towards women, and guess what? Yep...I started getting more 'lucky'.

    If you are a bit aloof, and difficult...they for the most part won't leave you alone.

    Women generally don't seem to really want what they say they want in a man.

    Oh..they may eventually grab the steady, meeker nice guy, and have kids with them because they are stable, but then they will often go out and cheat....with the bad boy they meet and find they are sexually attracted and excited by.

    Women LIKE being raped and abused, you say? Tell me what CAVE did you just crawl out of?

    You ought to do some research on sociopaths, psychopaths, narcissists and verbal, emotional, sexual, and physical abuse before you post ignorant statements like the one you just posted.

    I'd suggest you read some books and drop your misogynistic "no means yes" and "women like being smacked around" mantras. You are obviously very ignorant about women. Not that that is any surprise.

    Knuckle-dragging MORON.

    BOOKS:

    "Why does he do that? Inside the minds of angry and controlling men" - by Lundy Bancroft

    "Verbal Abuse: How to Recognize it and How to Respond" - by Patricia Evans.

    The Sociopath Next Door - by Martha Stout

    Without Conscience - by Robert Hare

    WHY do women stay? It's NOT because they LIKE it. They've been TARGETED by these predator/men. Once they're drawn in - it can be VERY DIFFICULT emotionally and FINANCIALLY to get out.

    Abusers don't start out being abusive. They start out being Prince Charming. The abuse begins gradually, and increases gradually. Targets get accustomed to it meanwhile - until it gets SO BAD they realize they have to get out. By that time - and this can be months and usually YEARS - they are emotionally and financially entangled with this guy.

    And there may be CHILDREN involved.

    You see, Mr. Ignoramous, it's NOT THAT SIMPLE.

    And NO - women are NOT "masochistic" and NO they don't LIKE being abused and the did NOT "volunteer" or sign up for it.

    They were TARGETED for it.

    Like the frog in a pot of water. It's comfortable. The water gradually gets a little warmer. Frog adjusts - until it's REALLY HOT and he frog needs to find a way out of the pot. By that time, it isn't so easy to get out.

    And these women are NOT VICTIMS. The proper term is TARGET.

    And I assert that the people here (or anywhere) trying to justify men who target women for such abuse, and who are trying to assert "well she ASKED for it", or "well she LET me do it!" (ie: blaming the woman/women the JERK/ABUSER'S behavior and for the abuser/jerk's CHOICE to target another individual for abuse) are likely some of the guiltiest individuals themselves.

    THE RESPONSIBILITY for abusive (sociopathic/psychotic, narcissistic) behavior belongs squarely on the shoulders of those men DOING the using abusing and NOWHERE else.

    ANOTHER PERSON is not responsible for an abusive jerk's behavior. The attitude that ANYONE ELSE is or should be responsible for it is part of the PROBLEM.

    I don't subscribe to that attitude and it's about time society stopped doing it too.

    As for you, methinks thou doth protesteth too much. Can you get your foot into your face even FURTHER now?

    Deny. Blame. Pr

  • by cayenne8 (626475) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @01:27PM (#23887017) Homepage Journal
    "So all you nice guys out there stop giving it away for free, get your needs met as well or get out of that relationship. When they say "you're so nice, why can't the guys I date be more like you?" point out that emotionally they are dating you, they just happen to be fucking someone else."

    I could not put it better. Please...someone with mod point hit the parent up here.

    The sad thing is....SO many guys don't learn this till much later in life. You blow it in your teen years when you can do your most and best serious fucking....

    I wish to hell I'd learned this lesson early in life when I was 16+....I did pretty good, but, nowhere NEARLY as well as some of my friends, and I just never knew why back then. Thankfully I figured it out in my 20's.....

  • Re:but.. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by SanityInAnarchy (655584) <ninja@slaphack.com> on Saturday June 21, 2008 @01:28PM (#23887025) Journal

    These are people with leadership qualities
    Indeed. One seemingly stupid definition of a leader I once heard is: "Someone with followers".
    Hmm. I can see the correlation, somewhat -- but not all leaders are assholes.
  • Re:That's nice (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 21, 2008 @01:30PM (#23887035)
    I'll revise the grandparent post for your benefit: Geeks who repeatedly get used in these types of relationships and then go cry to their geek friends deserve no sympathy. ;) It's too harsh, but, seriously. Re-evaluate your relationships.
  • by SanityInAnarchy (655584) <ninja@slaphack.com> on Saturday June 21, 2008 @01:36PM (#23887083) Journal

    yes... I've had that speech from women far too often "you're so nice, why can't the guys I date be more like you?"
    Here's my favorite illustration of this: [bash.org]

    DragonflyBlade21: A woman has a close male friend. This means that he is probably interested in her, which is why he hangs around so much. She sees him strictly as a friend. This always starts out with, you're a great guy, but I don't like you in that way. This is roughly the equivalent for the guy of going to a job interview and the company saying, You have a great resume, you have all the qualifications we are looking for, but we're not going to hire you. We will, however, use your resume as the basis for comparison for all other applicants. But, we're going to hire somebody who is far less qualified and is probably an alcoholic. And if he doesn't work out, we'll hire somebody else, but still not you. In fact, we will never hire you. But we will call you from time to time to complain about the person that we hired.
    So, to all the nice guys out there -- read this, and remember it. At a certain point, you have to call them on it -- say "I'm sorry you got hurt, but it's your own fucking fault." Or, when you get the "nice guy" speech, say "I'm right here."

    Not only will this make you less of an emotional bitch for her, but it will also show at least some of the qualities that she seems to like -- assertiveness, bluntness...

  • Re:That's nice (Score:5, Insightful)

    by vux984 (928602) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @01:43PM (#23887151)

    Or maybe, the women that do end up with nice guys actually stay with them.

    This would trivially explain why bad boys get more women. Nice guys get fewer, but keep them longer.

    I was rarely single in the 10 years I was dating before marriage. But I can count the women without using up all my fingers. It didn't hurt that I actively avoided brainless sluts, with only one very breif exception.

  • by michaelmalak (91262) <michael@michaelmalak.com> on Saturday June 21, 2008 @01:46PM (#23887185) Homepage
    Sounds like Wall Street, too. Think Bill Gates.

    As a wise old man once told me, "To get ahead in life, you have to skirt the rules just enough to not get caught."

    P.S. While recognizing the truth of the statement, I don't live by it.

  • by pnagel (107544) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @01:48PM (#23887203)

    Everybody's going on about how this article confirms that "girls want bad boys", when in actual fact it merely underscores that "bad boys get more girls".

    It seems to me that the bad boys "get" the girls through deceit.

    Maybe girls really do want the nice, stable guys - and the bad boys are expert at acting the part, but more suavely than the real nice guys could, since they're not limited by actually meaning anything they say.

  • Re:but.. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by kaizokuace (1082079) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @01:57PM (#23887289)

    "i can control him so he'll stick around and help with the baby"
    hmmm. The back of my hand can answer that one.
    Also more generally instead of going into genetics and stuff women like guys who are confident and can take charge of situations. It's an attractive quality. This quality isn't found very often in "nice guys". Most nice guys are too afraid to cross any lines with others. From my experience girls really want nice guys but confidence takes priority and confidence is found easily in jerkfaces.
  • Re:That's nice (Score:2, Insightful)

    by aliquis (678370) <dospam@gmail.com> on Saturday June 21, 2008 @01:58PM (#23887303) Homepage

    Some of us probably don't bother that much about the red underline, but more important the ones of us who don't write correct english are probably not native english speakers and therefor use a different vocabulary for our spellchecker.

    Who good is a spellchecker on slashdot if my OS/dictionary spellchecks in swedish?

  • by Hannah E. Davis (870669) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @02:06PM (#23887395) Journal
    I would like to point out that a woman's idea of how she wants to be treated might be different from yours.

    Too many self-described "nice guys" seem to believe that a woman should be put on a pedestal and treated like a delicate flower. The man in her life should hold doors for her, give her gifts, and obey her every whim. He should listen to her, support her no matter what, and never let slip the slightest criticism or contrary opinion.

    The problem is... a lot of us don't actually want to be treated like that -- to be quite frank, it's annoying as hell. Yes, we want a man who's nice, helpful, respectful, etc., but we'd rather have someone who pays attention to what we really want than some guy who thinks that acting like a puppy dog will get him laid.

    I like guys who aren't always there for me because it means they have lives of their own. I like guys who are not afraid to express their opinions -- criticism can be useful, and I love a good argument. And I like guys who don't pretend that I'm a flawless godly being, but instead acknowledge that I'm a regular human with as many faults as anyone else.

    Does this mean I like assholes? Perhaps, if you define an asshole as someone who treats me the way I want to be treated rather than the way guys like you think I should be treated, but I certainly have no desire to date a "nice guy."
  • Re:but.. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Snocone (158524) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @02:08PM (#23887423) Homepage

    Naaah, you're wrong.

    Well, you're kinda close. What you mean is girls like guys who are nice to them. Telling off everybody else as the mood takes you is just fine. If there's any woman who isn't attracted to you for her being the only one you bother being polite to, I haven't met her yet.

    Of course, if you *really* want to attract them, the correct approach is to treat most everybody with barely restrained contempt, her with casual indifference, and another prettier girl with impeccably debonair politeness. Once you get those competitive instincts going, whatever qualities you may or may not possess become all but utterly irrelevant. Funny how that works...

  • Re:Well, I RTFA (Score:3, Insightful)

    by div_2n (525075) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @02:10PM (#23887437)

    The "bad boy" approach will _definitely_ get you from zero to laid in a much shorter amount of time than the nice guy approach will.

    The reason, I believe, is quite simple. If a girl perceives you to be one of these kind of guys, then even if they are educated, know what you are up to and what not, they will make a decision rather quickly whether or not they are up to some potentially dead-end (i.e. meaningless) sex or a short term fling.

    Whether or not some evolutionary underpinnings are behind their mental processes or not is a whole separate discussion.

    The nice guy approach is a much longer and drawn out way of getting to sex. Again the reason is simple--if you are nice and a girl realizes sex is not the first thing you are after then she will take lots of time to size you up before giving it up.

  • Re:That's nice (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Gewalt (1200451) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @02:11PM (#23887449)

    and hearing her say, "I wish I could find someone like you..."

    Ya, see, thats the point where you're supposed to put your tongue in her mouth. Failing to do so results in you not getting laid, and her continuing her search elsewhere.

  • Re:That's nice (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Jimmy King (828214) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @02:18PM (#23887517) Homepage Journal

    I'd agree with you, except I'm American and so have primarily American friends, acquaintances, and co-workers, along with some British friends and co-workers. Far more high school and college age (and even graduated) people spell at about what I would consider a 5th-7th grade level than you could possibly imagine. It doesn't necessarily mean they are stupid, but when using text based communication, it's the first, most common, and sometimes only hint you've got as to how intelligent someone is and whether you should trust anything they say in terms of intellectual conversations.

  • by DriedClexler (814907) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @02:22PM (#23887561)

    Sorry, directly asking for sex doesn't work, unless you're well into the relationship. Try giving advice that won't turn guys into the pariah who "omg did WHAT?"

    Btw, the theory I have formed is that women give romantic advice in order to cull the dating field of the guys so genetically unfit that they would do what a woman tells them.

    Crazy theory, but I won't reject it until I find a theory that better fits the data. I'm a stickler like that.

  • by Esteanil (710082) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @02:26PM (#23887597) Homepage Journal

    For the most part, however, women do mature to a point where a good provider is the best choice for her.


    For feeding the kids, yeah. For making them she'll still turn to the 'bad boy' alpha male. In her fertile period, her taste in men changes at the most basic levels - big muscles, hairy chests and the like.

    But look at the genetic statistics tests have shown sometime (google it, I'm too lazy to find it at the moment) sometime. There are amazing numbers of children whose fathers are not whom they think.

    Although, in many ways this does not really matter. But if widespread testing of fatherhood becomes the norm, our society will pretty much collapse.
  • Re:but.. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by structural_biologist (1122693) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @02:26PM (#23887603)
    My problem with the article is that it doesn't directly examine females' attraction. The study merely looks at how many sexual partners "bad boys" v. "good boys" have. Not surprisingly, the "bad boys," who desire more relationships of shorter duration, have more relationships than the "good boys," who do not desire such promiscuity. So yes, people who seek more sexual relationships have more sexual relationships. That's the duh factor of the article. It's up to future studies to determine whether these bad boys are actually more attractive or desirable to girls.
  • by eh2o (471262) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @02:26PM (#23887605)

    Whatever... IMHO younger partners are quite frankly not as good in bed. Yeah there are some limits to be sure, but in general it just gets better. There is nothing special about being young.

  • by bfwebster (90513) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @02:31PM (#23887647) Homepage

    Uh, there are serious problems with this study, most notable that it relies upon self-reporting of sexual activity by at most a few dozen or so college-aged males (the total sample size is 200 men and women) who rank high in narcissistic, psychopathic, and manipulative behavior. Anyone else think there may be a problem with that?

    Ironically, the lead author of this study [nmsu.edu] has another one coming out entitled, "The power of prestige: Why young men report having more sex partners than young women."

    I rant about all this a bit more here [and-still-i-persist.com]. ..bruce..

  • Re:That's nice (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mgblst (80109) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @02:42PM (#23887755) Homepage

    It is simple. The reason that bad guys do better, is that bad guys don't waste their time with people who aren't interested in them, whereas people like you do. How are you supposed to get anyone else, if you are wasting all your time chasing someone who doesn't want you.

  • by Snocone (158524) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @02:47PM (#23887811) Homepage

    Sorry, directly asking for sex doesn't work

    Sure it does. If they've already decided they're going to. Which they do in, at most, the first three seconds after you make eye contact.

    The only three reasons directly asking doesn't work are

    1) She's not into you. Which you should be able to pick up on after two exchanged sentences at most. Generally you shouldn't even need to speak though, holding eye contact is almost always a sufficient sign, and the "almost" is pretty much just hedging, I can't recall a single occasion when it wasn't, personally.

    2) You fuck up asking. Confident yet detached is correct; nervous or intense will strike you out every time. "So, are we going home now?" is the particular phrasing that works best for me.

    3) There's somebody aware of the conversation whom she doesn't want to form the impression she's easy/unfaithful/whatever. Of course, that "somebody" could actually be you, in which case we call it "playing hard to get."

  • Re:That's nice (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 21, 2008 @02:48PM (#23887819)

    I think that's the main reason bad boys get more girls - their relationships simply fall apart faster.

  • by cayenne8 (626475) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @02:55PM (#23887883) Homepage Journal
    "The first was that I filled the quota of 'male friends who are not trying to get into my pants'. This is key. This means that you now have a stable, non-insane (read non-female) influence in your life. These are the people I go to when I need actual advice, not just a sounding board to bitch at. If they were trying to get me into bed, I couldn't trust their opinion."

    But by and large...I'd say don't kid yourself. Given the chance any of these guys would bed you in a heartbeat if you gave them any chance whatsoever. That is just a fact.

  • Re:but.. (Score:0, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 21, 2008 @03:05PM (#23887971)

    "Not the sweet girls you'd want to be with, nope."

    Who the fuck wants to be with a 'sweet girl'.

    I would imagine a 'sensitive guy' would, but not all of us are that way...some of us want to be as in touch with our physical nature as we are our emotional ones. Generally girls that are considered sweet don't pay much attention to the physical side of things. They believe it is bad or wrong...they don't want to get fucked in the elevator and they think holding hands is 'orgasmic'.

    I've gone out with a few of these over the years. Utterly boring.

    I think the thing people need to realize is that there is moderation to everything. You don't have to be an uncaring bastard to get women, but you do have to care about yourself and not get walked on. Sweet Girls are the ideal for guys on this site because they are so afraid of a woman with any depth to their personality that they need someone that isn't going to harm them in any way. Unfortunately, most people have emotional depth that goes beyond the pure 'nice guy' approach...

    I can understand why women don't go for nice guys...just the same as most of us out there that actually talk to real living people don't want one dimensional women. Get away from your computers. Get a life. Meet people. Make emotional bonds.

    I made a shift away from computers years ago after being a developer since I was 12 years old (I actually sold my first company at 16...about to sell my current company so that I can finish up my PhD in psychology without having to deal with this crap...even if the GM manages 90% of what goes on). I've had times where I lived my introverted life behind the screen, but I've always gotten out and done things with real people. And over the last 4 years where computers have been sidelined -- it has been amazing how much more emotionally developed I've been because I don't have the crutch of being online as much as I have (I just checked and realized it has been 7 months since my last post on this site...I have a pretty low ID).

    Online just gives one a distorted sense of reality...yes it is *A* reality, but it isn't the one you meet and date in.

    Beyond this, take risks. A good friend always reminded me what is the worst that is going to happen if you approach a woman and are turned down? Well, you've been turned down. Thats it. You might have a bruised ego, but thats it...and even then, you quickly learn not to worry about it. We *ALL* have criteria...some more than others. Women have more criteria than men on average. Take the risk anyways and realize dating isn't an all or nothing approach. Can't get one...move on to the next.

    BTW...I am totally in love with one girl who was in a class with me last semester. She was a no, but another in the class wasn't...I dated the other for a while knowing she was probably just temporary...turned out she was actually pretty cool. Still didn't work out, but we are going camping next week with friends anyways..and the one I was entirely into...ended up calling last week anyways to catch up...if I would have been an all or nothing guy, pretty much she would have written me off. It is entirely about moderation and nothing more...not being a nice guy (meaning no balls) or a bad boy (jail, douchebaggery and otherwise), it is about moderation. Then again, I wish someone had taught this to me when I was in my late teens instead of learning it in my late 20s!

  • by Blackhalo (572408) <jmattj&ix,netcom,com> on Saturday June 21, 2008 @03:31PM (#23888219)
    Here is my favorite illustration http://www.laddertheory.com/ [laddertheory.com]
  • Re:That's nice (Score:4, Insightful)

    by tloh (451585) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @03:33PM (#23888245)

    ....or 300 years of evolutionary programming....

    So... umm... how was replication implemented before that was coded?

    *duck* *runs away*

  • Oblig. Family Guy (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Dachannien (617929) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @03:51PM (#23888447)

    Brian: You wanna know how to get women? There's only one place to observe. (They go outside and look over at Quagmire's house.) Just watch.
    Woman: (runs out the front door) I am not doing that, Glenn!
    Quagmire: Come on, beautiful! Keep an open mind!
    Woman: You're a sick man!
    Quagmire: (yells) Hey, keep it down! I don't want my neighbors seeing a fat, old, dirty whore screaming at me on my front lawn.
    Woman: Whore?! (pauses, then more calmly) Well, maybe I should come inside.
    Quagmire: Well, maybe you should.
    Stewie: What the deuce? Why the hell would she respond so positively to such a negative comment? Unless... Brian, do women like it when you treat them like crap?
    Brian: Well I don't know if you wanna be so black and white about it -
    Stewie: Wait, that's it! Women respond when you treat them like crap!

  • Re:That's nice (Score:4, Insightful)

    by h4rm0ny (722443) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @04:01PM (#23888569) Journal

    And I've done empirical testing - parent is right and if not, it's hardly the worst thing in the world to have kissed someone :)

    I think this is another story of dubious merit. There are two ways you can deal with the risk of approaching someone else. One is to not really care about the other person and the other is to have some courage. Lacking people with the latter around, a girl may settle for the former (because everyone needs someone). But of the two options, you're way better off bringing yourself to take the chance through courage, rather than through trying to be callous.
  • by h4rm0ny (722443) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @04:07PM (#23888635) Journal

    This is just more of the same old Slashdot pseudo-science that is posted as a real story.

    You got that right. And your entire post is interesting when compared to the actual article which I don't think many people have read (surprise, surprise). The study concluded that people with certain negative traits had more partners in a given time. Conclusion: They can't or wont keep a relationship going. We can presume that people without these traits are more capable or simply happier being with one person. All your suggestions are about how to find such a person. The "bad boys" in this study are seemingly after casual sex.

    The headline is a little less inflammatory when you translate it as "self-centred people are more likely to bounce from partner to partner than to have one particular partner."
  • Re:That's nice (Score:5, Insightful)

    by QuoteMstr (55051) <dan.colascione@gmail.com> on Saturday June 21, 2008 @04:08PM (#23888639)

    See, that's where I think you're wrong. Here's my reasoning: as geeks, we pay more attention to the specifications and documentation than normal.

    But as the guide for writing unmaintainable code says, bad documentation is worse than no documentation

    We geeks read about how we're supposed to act around women. All that material is a product of a feel-good, postmodernist feminism that utterly fails to reflect what women actually want. It's the sociological equivalent of a single female saying she wants the nice guy and screwing the jock.

    Speaking of these stereotypical jocks: they don't read. They don't think. They just act on their biological impulses. And thousands of years of evolution have honed these biological impulses to match what females want.

    So, in short, society is telling anyone who will listen feel-good, egalitarian, and utterly wrong information about how to act around women. The successful ones, for once, don't read the documentation.

  • by mikael_j (106439) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @04:20PM (#23888745)

    I think one problem is that women are a lot worse at sending hints to men than they think they are, and another is that a lot of women, for all the talk of empowerment and taking charge actually enjoy sitting back and having guys do all the work since it gives them an advantage in that they're the ones who are making the decisions, it also makes rejection easier to handle...

    If you go up to someone and talk to that person and get rejected then the defeat is obvious, but if you just sit back, blink a little, smile and maybe twirl your hair between your fingers then you can always tell yourself that "Maybe he just didn't notice...".

    And then there's this weird perception some women have that just because a man isn't screaming like Tarzan and starting fights with people for stepping on his shadow then this must translate into him being bad in bed, sexual prowess doesn't decrease just because a man has a brain and manners enough not to act like a loud idiot.

    Final point, a lot of the guys women see as "leaders" and "alpha males" aren't. A hint to the female slashdot readers, next time some guy looks like a "leader" to you by "taking control" and all that bullshit, don't stare at him and drool, observe his friends, do they actually follow his lead? or do they shake their heads and look like they're considering ditching him and going somewhere else?

  • Re:That's nice (Score:2, Insightful)

    by cptnapalm (120276) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @04:21PM (#23888761)

    Funny.

    "But I don't think of you in that way"

    "I don't want to ruin our friendship"

    etc.

  • Re:That's nice (Score:3, Insightful)

    by aliquis (678370) <dospam@gmail.com> on Saturday June 21, 2008 @04:41PM (#23888955) Homepage

    He'll never know unless he tries. She might glare back into his eyes and let him kiss her, or she may not.

    I doubt she'll give away more clues than that without knowing if he have any intrest in her whatsoever or not.

    It may even end at a kiss, but then atleast he got one =P

  • by thegnu (557446) <thegnu.gmail@com> on Saturday June 21, 2008 @04:57PM (#23889095) Journal

    i think a big part of it is nice guys try to be nice, whereas "bad boys" are just themselves without reservation, for good or bad. so the bad boys seem more honest.

    being honest will get you laid. it will also get you scoffed at, laughed at, rejected, etc. but it will find you what you're looking for. it's hard to be honest and considerate. just get lots of practice flirting.

  • Re:but.. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Das Modell (969371) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @05:26PM (#23889331)

    Who the fuck wants to be with a 'sweet girl'.

    I would imagine a 'sensitive guy' would, but not all of us are that way...some of us want to be as in touch with our physical nature as we are our emotional ones. Generally girls that are considered sweet don't pay much attention to the physical side of things. They believe it is bad or wrong...they don't want to get fucked in the elevator and they think holding hands is 'orgasmic'.

    I've gone out with a few of these over the years. Utterly boring.


    Yes, because fucking in the elevator is exactly what mentally stable people do all the time.

    Sweet Girls are the ideal for guys on this site because they are so afraid of a woman with any depth to their personality that they need someone that isn't going to harm them in any way. Unfortunately, most people have emotional depth that goes beyond the pure 'nice guy' approach...

    So you're a self-destructive masochist? I don't see why any normal person would deliberately seek out a relationship that will harm him. Are you perhaps into "strong women" who manifest their alleged "strength" by being bi-polar or sociopathic?

    I can understand why women don't go for nice guys...just the same as most of us out there that actually talk to real living people don't want one dimensional women. Get away from your computers. Get a life. Meet people. Make emotional bonds.

    And here comes the obligatory "get a life just like mine" speech, because obviously you're the one who defines what constitutes a life, and obviously anyone who wants a nice girl is some nerd who does nothing but play WoW.

    Beyond this, take risks. A good friend always reminded me what is the worst that is going to happen if you approach a woman and are turned down? Well, you've been turned down. Thats it. You might have a bruised ego, but thats it...and even then, you quickly learn not to worry about it. We *ALL* have criteria...some more than others. Women have more criteria than men on average. Take the risk anyways and realize dating isn't an all or nothing approach. Can't get one...move on to the next.

    Please punch your friend in the face, because that's stupid advice. It's not going to help someone who effectively has a phobia towards approaching women. Everyone rationally knows that approaching a women and getting turned down doesn't really matter, but phobias are by definition irrational. Your friend's advice is about as useful as telling a depressed person to cheer up.
  • by J_Omega (709711) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @05:29PM (#23889353)
    "Only a real, responsible relationship with a woman who wants to be true partners will give you what you need as a human."

    And what, pray tell, is THAT? What do I NEED that I can't supply myself? Roof/Food are covered by my decent employment - better off than many 2-income couples. I know how to cook, clean, and most everything else.

    I'm GUESSING that you mean true companionship - and if so, no thanks, I don't need it. Too often I get the "Why aren't you married yet?" or "Why no kids?" spiels from the divorced and/or burdened folk.

    Ok, some of my dear friends WANT exactly that - one can't wait to start a family up. Not me.

    And it isn't like homo-sapiens is a genetically monogamous critter. Alpha-males SHOULD get more women - and simultaneously.

    Please - tell me what it is that a woman can give me as a human that I need?

    PS -- if any women are reading this: I think you're a piece of shit. Don't i look handsome tonight. Let's go skydiving! oh, there's an opening in my harem - the "application" doesn't take long to fill out.

  • by thegnu (557446) <thegnu.gmail@com> on Saturday June 21, 2008 @06:05PM (#23889585) Journal

    So you're basically saying that the nice guys aren't really nice, they are just pretending to be nice because they think it will win them girls. I call bullshit on that.
    Call bullshit on that all you want, I didn't say it. I'm saying that it's generally people with good intentions who experience social angst at trying to reconcile their desires with their moral standards. This results in a person being more anxious around someone he is trying to have sex with, unless that person has reconciled the desire to bang something with the relative morality of doing what it takes to get it done.

    Someone who doesn't give a shit, ergo, will exhibit a much calmer and freer demeanor, which is attractive.

  • by lena_10326 (1100441) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @06:34PM (#23889783) Homepage

    If not immaturity, what is it? Answers not insults please.

    You asked nice and seemed to earnestly want to know, so I will elaborate. First off, there are two issues here, so I will treat them separately; however, know that they're inter-related.

    The first question was why are HS girls self-conscious? I'll follow that with another question. Do you remember puberty? Yes? Great. Were you self-conscious about the changes? You probably were for a short while, at least until you saw other guys developing in the same way. At some point, you probably competed with other guys trying to grow a bigger, more bushier mustache. You probably enjoyed seeing your muscles grow, your voice deepen, and gaining the respect of older men. Puberty was FUN for you.

    OK. Now, imagine you're a girl and rather than developing all that cool guy stuff, you find yourself with BOOBS on your chest. Obvious ones, that you can't hide. Men are starting to notice you. I don't just mean teenagers. I mean 30 and 40 year old guys--creepy ones--are now oggling you, as well as guys in your class, guys under your class, teenage guys, college guys. ALL GUYS.

    When you walk past them, what do they say? Sometimes they whisper, sometimes they grin, sometimes they stand there staring at you like they're going to devour you. They are lions and you're a helpless lamb. Sometimes you overhear them saying "Hey.. look at that RACK!!". Sometimes they talk about what they're going to do to you sexually. Sometimes it's horribly mean comments. "That chick is ugly." "She's such a fat pig."

    At every second of the day, you are judged for how you look and for your body features--or lack of. Features that are new and foreign to you, which you cannot hide. You already feel self-conscious about it, but now you've got guys picking it apart as if you're on stage--in a beauty contest that you never wanted to enter.

    OK. What about other girls? They're looking at you also. They're judging you. They're looking at how nice your clothes are, the brand of shoes you're wearing, the guy you're with, the weight you put on, the size of your breasts, how much skin you're revealing, how little skin you're revealing, how prude you are, how old-fashioned your clothes are. It's endless. If any single thing is out of order, not up to snuff, you are deemed unworthy, or worse a whore, a skank, or a bitch. You are branded and thus locked out of the social cliques.

    Now comes the second part, guys and which guys you're going to find interesting. So much of your identity in HS is based on the guy you're with. He has to meet the expected standards of your peers.

    Guys have reputations. We all know this, but which reputation is going to be desirable to a girl? The one who runs around at lunch time begging all the girls to give him attention? Or, the guy who is hot, confident, and a leader among his friends. It's going to be the latter, every time. That guy is going to have the choice of any girl he wants and he's not going to settle for a sub-standard girl. He's not going to beg, plead, or do stupid things to get your attention. No. It's the other way around. The girl has to get his attention.

    She feels like she has to prove herself worthy to him. She wants him to select her, because if he does she wins. He's Midas with the golden touch. If he touches you, you are GOLD. All the other girls will be jealous of you. Your standing will be at the top, in the stratosphere. They will all envy you because you got the guy they want. The very reason his value is perceived to be higher is because he's hard to get. He's selective, which means when he selects you, he's making a powerful statement regarding his perception of you.

    That is the reason why high school girls are self-conscious and go after the aloof type of guy. An aloof type of guy knows he's got the choice of who he dates, and he knows this because he knows his value. He knows he's got stuff to offer to a girl. Of

  • Re:That's nice (Score:5, Insightful)

    by thegnu (557446) <thegnu.gmail@com> on Saturday June 21, 2008 @06:35PM (#23889787) Journal

    I've never heard of women claiming sex with men would have anything to do with violence

    I think it comes from 2nd wave feminist era propaganda. But I'm not sure.

    circumcision is NOT a genital mutilation.

    Your example is excellent. I never meant there weren't extenuating circumstances necessitating the procedure. However, doctors botch it at a fairly high rate--the quoted 1 in 10,000 only counts problems that arise in the week or two following the procedure. They don't take into account mutilated glans, excess skin removal, or anything that would arise at puberty.

    Equaling

    Who said that calling male circumcision genital mutilation (which it is, by definition) means that it is equal to female genital mutilation?

    removal of a completely unnecessary piece of skin

    yeah, well the main symptom of the removal of an eyeball is decreased sensitivity. Same with the foreskin. go figure.

    which - by coincidence - is also found shit ugly by most women I know

    Coincidence? You mean that these women who live in a culture where roughly a high percentage of the male population has a specific genital mutilation find that specific genital mutilation to be attractive?

    They found in a survey of the southern USA that 80% of women preferred circumcised men. They also found that 75% of those women had never seen an uncircumcised penis.

    And for what it's worth, I think that you shouldn't mutilate your child to increase his sexual attractiveness. And women who mutilate their little babies because they think an unmutilated body is ugly are bad people.

    regardless of the reason this removal was done

    I don't. I just wasn't clear enough.

    to the *real* genital mutilations performed on young girls in Africa, practically crippling them for the rest of their lives, is actually an unbelievably ignorant thing to do!

    You misuse the word real. You might mean 'more egregious.' However, the women in that culture were quite happy with the procedure. Also, some of the cultures just trim the labia minora, which is quite similar to male circumcision.

    Crippling only occurs in some cases. Same as with the males.

    It seems like you think that if I stand up for a man who is beaten by his wife, I'm detracting from the efforts of those who stand up for female victims of *real* spousal abuse. Who's ignorant now?

    Especially nowadays, that the pretty direct connection between the foreskin and the cervical cancer has been pretty much (statistically) proven.

    I think that the fact that the foreskin makes the penis a more hospitable environment for HPV, which HAS been directly linked (statistically) to cervical cancer might be what you're talking about.

    Also, they've found that removing the labia minora decreases the likelihood that a woman will contract HIV, which has given anthropologists pause in reforming cultures where HIV is rampant. However, it seems like you could inform people of the increased risk, rather than strapping babies down and cutting a part of their body off for no reason whatsoever.

    Not to mention that there isn't a single medical association in a modern developed nation that recommends circumcision. Look it up.

    I guess you also don't "mutilate" your fingers by the barbaric act of nail clipping, do you?

    What the fuck are you talking about? It's not a living part of your body. I can't believe I just got suckered into explaining that to a grown man.

    Oh, one more thing. Go find a good physician. The rabi should keep his fingers away, that's for sure.

    Physicians are in general as incompetent as the next guy. The procedure is treated as a trivial one, and not with the care it should be.

    This "operation" is such a routine around here in Europe, that I've NEVER heard of the complications you mention in your post.

    The ci

  • by ScrewMaster (602015) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @06:42PM (#23889851)
    Couldn't have said it better myself. Many women in the U.S. claim to want "equality" when what they really want is to offload any responsibility for their own existence onto their partners of the moment. Oh sure, that's a generalization of Biblical proportions, I know. But there is more than a little truth to it, I think.

    For my part, I finally found someone that truly understands what "for better or worse" means and is in it for the long haul. More to the point, she is totally focused on making life better for both of us, not just herself. In turn, that frees me to give without reservation. I've been trying for a couple of decades to find someone like her, and it's a remarkable experience and I don't want it to ever end. Honestly, it took some time for me to realize just how different she is from all her predecessors, but once I did I realized I had to do whatever it took to keep her. That meant making some big changes, but they were all worth it.

    Unlike yours truly, she wasn't born here, but you know what? I couldn't be happier ... and I'm not looking back.
  • by kklein (900361) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @06:43PM (#23889861)

    Okay, there is a little stuff in there I'm uncomfortable about, but let me talk about what I agree with:

    If you're looking for a wife, get out of the US. Our angry, second-wave-feminist, crybaby boomer mothers raised our generation for men to hate themselves and women to hate men. For no good reason. Find me a man who says "women should stay home, barefoot and pregnant!" or "women make great secretaries, but that's about it." No. One. Thinks. That. But we all have to grovel and supplicate to prove we're not one of those sexist straw men our mothers made up.

    As a result, American, and most Western, women have become, in my opinion, untenable as life partners. I want equality in my marriage. By that I mean social equality. I don't want to be the bad guy. I just want to be someone's husband. Partner.

    Why do American guys flip over Asian women? Just as the parent says, it's because it's the first time most guys have ever had a woman treat him kindly. On the other hand, why do Asian women often flip for Western guys? Because for them, it's often the first time a guy has treated them kindly. This is why you see so many successful married couples with Western guy and Asian woman. The cultures' gender roles, in the current generation, are complementary.

    BUT...

    And this is where the parent has kind of fallen down...

    Don't expect it to stay like that forever. It won't. It can't. It shouldn't.

    East Asian households are basically run by the women. They expect to control the finances. However, in my experience (my wonderful wife is Japanese), and that of my friends, they're pretty damned good at it. It bothered me at first, but then I had to admit we were living very comfortably, I had plenty of money for toys, and we were saving over a third of our income! So I let that go. YMMV.

    In the West, we've been programmed to think that a housewife or stay-at-home-mom is a slave. She's not. My wife doesn't work, and even though we could get more money otherwise, and it would of course be fine if she wanted to, it's awesome. I now see why that's been the dominant model in every society since the beginning of time. I work outside of the house, she makes sure the house is operating correctly. We get to spend a lot more leisure time together that way. We don't have to spend our weekends cleaning the house and doing laundry. We eat healthy, home-cooked food that bonds us socially. She's not a slave, she's my best friend and partner. I gladly work my ass off to make sure she's comfortable, and she gladly works her ass off to make sure I am. That, my friends, is a partnership. Just because I'm the one making the money doesn't mean I'm in a higher position. I'm in an equal position. We're taking the entire job of life and splitting it up and assigning roles.

    For the record, if she could make more than me, I'd be delighted to stay at home and do the housework.

    I guess what I'm saying is this:

    1. If you are looking for a nice woman who wants a partnership, that's still in vogue in Asia.
    2. As the parent said, don't be a dick. Learn the language and culture. This will ensure that you're not getting into something you don't understand.
    3. Your preconceived notions are probably not complete. Asian women are strong and strong-willed. They expect to be given control of certain domains in your life, and you may need to go along with that, or work out a different deal, for your relationship to proceed harmoniously. Just because they don't treat men like crap doesn't mean they are Madame Butterfly. If that's what you want, um, well, you deserve to be unhappy and alone.
    4. Realize that in a culture where women are nice to men, that niceness may or may not actually be indicative of anything special. I got really burned with my first girlfriend (only have had 2) in Japan. I fell head-over-heels for her, wanted to marry her, but found out
  • by Snocone (158524) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @06:46PM (#23889881) Homepage

    No, they do.

    If you think otherwise, then you're failing at either #1 or #2.

    The only women -- and it's a vanishingly small number -- who put you off with some excuse like that when there's no outside influences are those who treat sex as a bargaining chip in return for money being spent on them. You're better off without those, son.

  • Re:That's nice (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Blublu (647618) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @06:52PM (#23889921) Journal
    There's nothing wrong with circumcision when it is actually necessary. There is something seriously wrong, however, with doing it for no medical reason at all. Nails grow back and don't have any nerves in them, just like hair. You wouldn't rip off the nails of your newborn baby or tear off their hair by the root, would you? It's a fucking retarded comparison and just shows how much you really know.
  • Re:That's nice (Score:3, Insightful)

    by uniquegeek (981813) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @07:18PM (#23890075)

    As a woman, and having had experience this, I would like to add other possibilities:

    a) she thinks he's too much of a pussy
    b) she's tired of getting mixed signals (often goes along with item a )

    Decent women don't want to be "sorta liked, kinda". Shit or get off the pot. Don't play games. We get way too much attention to entertain any one person's twaddle for an extended period of time.

    Someone earlier suggested heartlessbitches.com I'm going to suggest it again.

  • by NMerriam (15122) <NMerriam@artboy.org> on Saturday June 21, 2008 @07:35PM (#23890165) Homepage

    So you're basically saying that the nice guys aren't really nice, they are just pretending to be nice because they think it will win them girls. I call bullshit on that.

    For the majority of males under, say, 25 years old, yeah, "nice guys" are just as full of shit as "bad boys". Nice Guys generally think they're earning some sort of karma points that entitle them to get affection from women. That's just as manipulative and deceitful as anything those guys bitch about others (both men and women) doing.

    Of course, both men and women generally mature, and eventually come to realize that there's a difference between being a genuinely good man and just being a Nice Guy. Nearly every sane woman over 25 wants a good man, not a bad boy or a nice guy. But of course from 18-25, it certainly makes sense to be the bad boy since that's where all the action is.

  • by plasmacutter (901737) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @08:29PM (#23890517)

    this is not congruous with what I quoted you saying.

    i think a big part of it is nice guys try to be nice, whereas "bad boys" are just themselves without reservation, for good or bad. so the bad boys seem more honest.
    you are essentially saying here that you don't believe nice people are being honest because others are dishonest.

    this is your problem, not theirs.

  • Re:That's nice (Score:4, Insightful)

    by corbettw (214229) <`moc.oohay' `ta' `wttebroc'> on Saturday June 21, 2008 @08:42PM (#23890593) Journal

    "I don't want to ruin our friendship"
    The best response to this line is: "I don't have time for these games, call me when you grow up." Then get up and leave.

    The hard part? Not calling her again, ever, for any reason. She might call, she might not, but either way your sense of self-respect will shoot through the roof.

  • Re:but.. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by IntlHarvester (11985) * on Saturday June 21, 2008 @08:56PM (#23890657) Journal

    Please punch your friend in the face, because that's stupid advice. It's not going to help someone who effectively has a phobia towards approaching women. Everyone rationally knows that approaching a women and getting turned down doesn't really matter, but phobias are by definition irrational.
    Please. The typical dorky nervous-around-girls type does not have any sort of "phobia" or other certifiable condition. And if anyone here does, you need to head to a psychologist, not read dumb posts on the internet.


    Also irrational phobias are not at all like the chemical inblances that cause depression, and "Exposure Therapy" is actually how they treat them. So you're wrong.

  • by jcgf (688310) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @09:47PM (#23890955)
    I appreciate your answer and do agree with you, but not with this part:

    Puberty was FUN for you.

    No, it wasn't. The problems are not the same as the ones you had, but that doesn't mean that they were fun or less troublesome. I'm sure that you have read "Lord of the Flies"? If not, I recommend it because it is a perfect description of what high school is like for the guys. That is of course somewhat of a hyperbole as there are adults around that can prevent something as extreme as Piggy's murder but there are always going to be times when they turn their backs.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 21, 2008 @10:35PM (#23891235)
    "Most people aren't willing to do that." I disagree. All of those people who spend a fortune (time and money) on clothes, cars and gym memberships aren't exactly being driven by their great intellectual curiosity.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 21, 2008 @11:29PM (#23891549)

    "Because for them, it's often the first time a guy has treated them kindly."

    But women like bad guys, right? So how is it that they like a guy who treats them nicely now?

    Typical american fool. trying to convince himself that the asian girl who behaves as if she likes him actually loves him because he is nice (compared to those third world males). Trying hard to ignore the truth, that all they are after is the citizenship/greencard/dollar.

    typical american fool, again.

  • by NaishWS (1263540) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @11:40PM (#23891593)
    Most nice guys are used as intellectual whores. Basically this means that whenever a girl gets in an argument with their boyfriend, they will go complain to their intellectual whore, who thinks by listening to her whine will get him in bed with her, when he is sadly mistaken. "An Intellectual Whore is a man who a woman keeps around for intellectual purposes. She is uninterested in him sexually and considers him a friend. He probably wants to sleep with her, so he pretends to be her friend in the hope of one day getting sex." Link Here [intellectualwhores.com], it appears to be down at the moment.
  • by kklein (900361) on Sunday June 22, 2008 @12:17AM (#23891767)

    But generalizations are generally true.

    That's why they call them generalizations.

    They don't disallow variation within them; in fact, they expect it. Of course people are different. My wife happens to be good with finances. One of my friends' Japanese wives is abysmal. So he takes care of it. But generally speaking, when you're raised in a culture that says "women will be in charge of the finances," women learn how to handle finances.

    I made generalizations about people in certain cultures. If you don't think people can be grouped, generally speaking by culture, then... Well, maybe you need to get out and see the world a bit.

    What I was specifically talking about was gender roles within cultures. I was specifically addressing the "ladies first" culture of the West and the "men first" culture of much of East Asia. I was pointing out that this is why you see so many successful pairings of these people. The gender roles go together nicely and lead to two people being nicer to each other than they expect.

    Of course individual people are different.

    But that doesn't mean they aren't also kinda the same.

    Finally, after 7 years with my wife, I think I have a pretty good idea what she's like. I also think I have a pretty good idea what my sister-in-law is like. And my father-in-law. And even though I never got to meet her, I even have a pretty good idea what my late mother-in-law was like. I know what my friends are like. I know what my coworkers are like. I know what my students are like. I am fluent in Japanese and have lived here for the better part of the last decade. I have a degree in Asian Studies. I teach international communication and comparative religions at a university. Believe me, I know what Japanese culture is like, and I know what individuals are like.

    In fact, I'm pretty offended that you would imply that I see my family as generalizations. As stereotypes. They're my family. Just because they fall under rather broad cultural trends does not mean they aren't individuals.

    Get that through your head, and you'll find it a lot easier to understand other cultures.

  • Re:but.. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 22, 2008 @12:20AM (#23891781)

    OP here:

    "Yes, because fucking in the elevator is exactly what mentally stable people do all the time."

    Has nothing to do with mental stability. In fact, a healthy sex life is well...ummm...healthy. Uptight and repressed people look at sex as wrong and only to be done in the bedroom with the lights off. I wouldn't say that I need to do it in the elevator, I'm saying that the thought of this going though a 'nice girls' mind is next to nothing. Do it in the woods...or the kitchen table. Whatever. Sex is healthy. To hell with what the church or society wants you to believe. Hell, pick up men in the restroom if you want. Honestly, it is (can be?) healthier than telling people that it is mentally unstable to have sex somewhere you don't feel it is appropriate.

    "I don't see why any normal person would deliberately seek out a relationship that will harm him. Are you perhaps into "strong women" who manifest their alleged "strength" by being bi-polar or sociopathic?"

    You learn emotional maturity by experiencing emotion. Not by running from it. We are ALL harmed in relationships at some point. And most of us grow from it. Some of the most bi-polar women I've ever had to counsel have been 'nice girls' that were entirely repressed. Generally those willing to accept that they are multidimensional and not hide it are the healthiest people around. I know I'm flawed in some ways. That doesn't make me ill...it means I have room to grow.

    "It's not going to help someone who effectively has a phobia towards approaching women. Everyone rationally knows that approaching a women and getting turned down doesn't really matter, but phobias are by definition irrational. Your friend's advice is about as useful as telling a depressed person to cheer up."

    You know the best way to get someone to stop being depressed -- force them to go out. Seriously. Nothing to do with drugs. Don't believe the pharm industry. The best way is cognitive behavioral therapy -- which means just fucking do it. I was this way for a good portion of my life, and it took a while but I pretty much got over that after a while.

    Again, nothing to do with being a bad boy or a good guy. Has everything to do with just doing it. Either you do something or you don't do something. Simple as that. It is logic. 'Bad boys' get girls because they choose to get off their asses and make the effort.

  • Re:That's nice (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Psychopath (18031) on Sunday June 22, 2008 @12:37AM (#23891875) Homepage

    Please mod parent up. Performing unnecessary cosmetic surgery on tiny infants is barbaric by any rational standard.

    A man can always choose to get a circumcision as an adult. The fact that, given a choice, nearly all men choose not to do so can be taken as evidence that, once informed consent is available, the procedure is undesirable.

    Yes, I realize that women find a circumcised penis more attractive. Take a step back and try to be objective; that's a horribly weak rationalization for surgery.

  • by WannaBeGeekGirl (461758) * on Sunday June 22, 2008 @02:16AM (#23892217) Journal
    echtertyp posted nothing relevant to the OP: Guys, you owe it to yourself to check out http://www.dont-marry.com/ [dont-marry.com] Whatever happens, don't get married. Ever. It's just fsckin misery after a couple years, at best.

    I honestly can't tell if you are a troll, a mysogynist or need some in-your-face advice about how to stop whining and dealing with real life. If you speak from experience and are expecting to finding it on some website like the one you posted, try taking the outlook that occasionally human beings (regardless of gender) make mistakes. No one is perfect, not me, not you and not the best woman on earth. If you think marriage is easy, always there for your pleasure and won't have its ups and downs--you need to come back down to earth.

    Worst case, I have wasted a minimal amount of time; and damn, it sucks to be you with that kind of outlook or need for attention by trolling in such a pathetic manner.
  • by UnixUnix (1149659) on Sunday June 22, 2008 @06:45AM (#23893225) Homepage
    "The best lack all conviction/ while the worst are full of passionate intensity" [William Butler YEATS]
  • by elucido (870205) on Sunday June 22, 2008 @08:06AM (#23893605)


    What makes you think she's worth being kissed?

    Shouldn't she have picked you in the first place?

"You don't go out and kick a mad dog. If you have a mad dog with rabies, you take a gun and shoot him." -- Pat Robertson, TV Evangelist, about Muammar Kadhafy

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