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Cloned Sniffer Dogs Begin Training 44

Posted by timothy from the at-least-they're-not-cloning-a-smart-breed dept.
H0D_G writes "The Australian Broadcasting Corporation reports that the world's first cloned sniffer dogs have begun their training in South Korea. The dogs, cloned from a successful golden retriever sniffer dog, were the result of a $320,000 AUD project."
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Cloned Sniffer Dogs Begin Training More

Cloned Sniffer Dogs Begin Training

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  • In Soviet South Korea, you sniff dogs!

  • And they know this how? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by techpawn ( 969834 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2008 @10:06AM (#23157678) Journal

    Project manager Lim Jae-Yong said that training the clones of a skilled sniffer dog is easier than training ordinary canines
    "The project was successful. This is the first time that cloned dogs have been used as sniffer dogs," he said.
    Shouldn't that read that they BELIEVE training a cloned dog to be a sniffer will be easier. These are their first ones, how do they know if it's easier or if each dog is different just with the same genes (like twins)
    • I think it justs says that training cloned sniffer dogs (that were derived fom a skilled specimen) is easier than training dogs which lack their genes (thus "ordinary").

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by techpawn ( 969834 )
        But, how do they KNOW this? It says it's their first batch of puppies to try this on...

        That's like saying you can clone Wayne Gretzky and know you'll get a great hockey player. You don't, you just know you have someone with the same DNA. If that's the case, then it's a case of nature vs. nurture and even then you're not assured that all your clone will be the exact same as "the Great One"

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by kaens ( 639772 )
          Maybe they tried it already, and someone's just got a case of loose lips.

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by techpawn ( 969834 )
            I'll chalk it up to one of three things:
            1. 1) They don't know and they misspoke
            2. 2) It's mistranslated into English
            3. 3) They've tried training dogs of other types (i.e. Attack Dogs NOT Sniffers)
            Personally, I'm leaning to 1 or 2... Still erks me...

    • The Toppies have passed the first round of tests for behavioural patterns and genetic qualities, it said.

      "They will report for duty in June after completing a second round of training," Customs spokesman Lee Ho told AFP.

      Emphasis added. So, basically, these clones have undergone at least one round of training, with results good enough that they are confident the animals will pass the second set and be deployed, and causing the project manager to say that they were easier to train than "ordinary" dogs.

      Sure, you can say the jury is out until they have fully trained the dogs, deployed them, and examined their service records after several years. Or gone through the process with many batches of cloned sniffers. Nevertheless

      • I did and it read that the first test where that they had the proper personality and genetics. As in dog breeding you want a dog to have the correct dog genes and actions for the breed. I didn't take it that the cloned dogs where past a round of tests for ability to train other than to make sure they are not retarded Golden Retrievers.
        • As in dog breeding you want a dog to have the correct dog genes and actions for the breed.

          But this isn't just dog breeding, this is training for a specific field. They're not just checking that the dog has the proper coloration and temperament for their breed. Much like with seeing-eye dogs or police dogs, the most basic check involves a degree of training to ensure that they are capable of learning what is necessary. "Behavioral patterns" is more complex when you're talking about a potential professiona
  • training a sniffer dog means serving lightly sauted with a side order of rice and vegetables.

  • The only problem (Score:4, Insightful)

    by CastrTroy ( 595695 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2008 @10:09AM (#23157716)
    The only problem I see with using cloned animals for a task like this, is that they will only ever be so good. Assuming the genetic make-up and training is the same for all these dogs, and that they have a proficiency of X, then you will never get a dog that is better than X (by some margin). If you use selective breeding to try and produce better and better dogs with each generation, you could end up with a better product in the end.

    • If you use selective breeding to try and produce better and better dogs with each generation, you could end up with a better product in the end.

      Yes, but what do you do with all of the puppies that don't quite meet your expectations? This has been a problem with dog breeders for a while. The Corgi [akc.org] has a mutation for a long haired version that some breeders would put down soon after the puppy was born. Or so I was told by someone once in the dog show world.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by porcupine8 ( 816071 )
        You're still going to have that problem with clones. Small differences in prenatal conditions, one puppy getting more milk than another, random mutations - there will be some cloned dogs who aren't as good at it as the original, possibly quite bad at it. What will they do with those dogs?

        Fun fact: Identical twins raised apart tend to be extremely, even eerily similar - as adults they often have the same careers, the same hobbies, dress similarly, etc. You'd think this was an argument for everything being

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by Narpak ( 961733 )
          I reckon the scientists could vary the amount and type of food and training the dogs get; thus over time get empiric data from potentially hundreds, if not thousands, of genetically identical specimens. In due course I am confident cloning could answer many questions about Genetics Vs Environment.
        • Then why clone unless it's to "progress science". We have an overpopulation of domesticated pets as it is. If it was to "progress science" why not create one in your controlled environment to prove/disprove your hypnosis that training them will be easier then bred dogs?

          Oh, yeah, large government contract that says you cannot fail to give us X sniffer dogs.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Mr2001 ( 90979 )

        Yes, but what do you do with all of the puppies that don't quite meet your expectations?
        Well, they send horses to the dog food factory. I modestly propose sending those extra puppies to the horse food factory.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by The-Bus ( 138060 )
      Well, let's say the clone's proficiency (x) is 0.8. I assume if they picked this one dog, he was the Michael Jordan of drug-sniffing dogs: a statistical outlier. Maybe most dogs have an x value of 0.5 or 0.4. Even with breeding, they can only hope to raise this average to 0.55 or 0.6. So this dog is a much quicker solution to their problem.

      Maybe it will have the same problem Michael Keaton's character had in the movie Multiplicity. Copies of copies get dull and suddenly you've got a dog that's as good at tr

      • Which I guess explains why the Storm Troopers were such poor shots.
        I've always wondered that, and now thanks to you I know :)

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Hojima ( 1228978 )
        For one, I hope you know that clones can't degrade. Second, for the funds they put into it, a selective breeding program would be more successful. Remember, proficiency in sniffing can be more comparable to hight, rather than skill in basketball. With that respect, the dog would be comparable to nearly all basketball players (that are above 6'4" lets say). With that in mind, you can see how it's easier to find tall people than it is to clone them (especially if you could selectively breed them).

  • Why? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Conspicuous Coward ( 938979 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2008 @10:25AM (#23158014)

    Why would you do this? I don't understand.

    Maybe my information is out of date, but last I checked cloning of mammals is still a massively expensive process with a stupidly high failure rate (95%+ of embryos fail to develop into live young). Even when the cloned embryos develop to adulthood there are usually significant defects. What effect these defects might have on the animal in later life, or what problems might arise if these clones breed with normal dogs are both still largely unknown.

    So why do this? It seems a ridiculously expensive, unreliable and dangerous way to try and go about breeding better dogs for a pretty trivial purpose. This technology is being mass marketed before it's even close to being ready for prime time.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by AmonEzhno ( 1276076 )
      The issue, as I understand it from a friend who trains dogs for the TSA, the issue with training current sniffer dogs is that only about 1 in a few hundred of the potential dogs fits the profile they need. They look for dogs with obsessive personalities and dogs that have a very strong attachment to a specific item(toy). They use this toy they are fascinated with and use certain methods of conditioning to tie the scents of whatever the dog is trained to sniff out to the toy. So the hope with the cloned dog
    • So why do this? It seems a ridiculously expensive, unreliable and dangerous way to try and go about breeding better dogs for a pretty trivial purpose. This technology is being mass marketed before it's even close to being ready for prime time.

      Well I don't have any figures with which to do a cost/benefit analysis, but I do know that finding a good sniffer dog is not necessarily trivial. While your average dog has a sense of smell vastly superior to our own, and could probably serve well enough on Podunk U.S

    • Maybe my information is out of date, but last I checked cloning of mammals is still a massively expensive process with a stupidly high failure rate (95%+ of embryos fail to develop into live young). Even when the cloned embryos develop to adulthood there are usually significant defects.

      The program cost a mere $320 000 AUD and they have dogs which are presumably not slavering mutants or they wouldn't bother trying to train them, so it doesn't seem particularly expensive or error-prone so far. They're not

  • Sit, Ubu, sit... (Score:3, Funny)

    by djones101 ( 1021277 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2008 @10:39AM (#23158228)
    Good dog!

  • Hoax? (Score:2)

    by WK2 ( 1072560 )
    This sounds like a hoax. The idea is impractical, not particularly beneficial, and expensive. Clon-aid, anyone?

  • Breed name correction (Score:3, Informative)

    by andphi ( 899406 ) <phillipsam.gmail@com> on Tuesday April 22, 2008 @10:44AM (#23158300) Journal
    The BBC reported them as cloned Labrador Retrievers, rather than cloned Golden Retrievers.
  • Consider it practice; and as they say practice makes perfect. As they continue to clone and train the dogs they are sure to learn a great deal about the process. Greater understanding combined with advances in other areas (like genetic manipulation) could potentially lead to the development of a (pardon the phrase); super sniffer. Not to mention that any lesson learned would probably be transferable to the development of any other specialized dog (or other animal).

    Now I will not judge if this is good or

    • the age of Designed Animals is probably inevitable and not too far away.
      I fear you are right and it horrifies me. It is bad enough we have millions of unwanted pets being killed every year because of people won't spay/neuter, backyard breeders, puppy mills and other irresponsible breeders - now we've got to add cloned pets to the mix!!

      Just what we needed! /sarcasm
  • Tastes like chicken!
  • The original dog started acting strangely and had to be put down after sniffing his own ass on the cloned dog.
  • . . . does it bark when it smells suspicious traffic on the wire?

  • This is my brother Toppy. This is my other brother Toppy. This...

    (Of course naming a puppy "Toppy" for "tomorrow's puppy" doesn't make sense at all. As anyone who has ever gotten a puppy knows, today's puppy is tomorrow's DOG.)

  • The dogs, cloned from a successful golden retriever sniffer dog, were the result of a $320,000 AUD project."

    It would be cheaper to go to a shelter and pay $50-70 per dog and train them. Even if only 1 out of 10 get through the training, it's under a grand for the dogs, and however much for human pay to train them. Or, if they are so inclined breed a good bitch and male and train the puppies.

    If I cloned my last dog (rott/lab mix) who sadly passed away 2-22-08 at age 12, there's no guarantee that I would ge

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