Blue Lights To Reset Internal Clocks 332
holy_calamity writes "Researchers at RPI are testing the effects of putting blue LEDs inside cars to keep drivers alert. People driving through the night are much more likely to cause accidents because our circadian rhythms just want to sleep — blue light at around 450nm wavelength can fool them into thinking it's morning and keep them awake."
Re:Is this really the answer? (Score:3, Interesting)
When you get into a car you take your life in your hands. Everyone should know this.
We accept the dangerous because the convenience is worth it.
Volkswagen gauges are this exact color (Score:5, Interesting)
A third of accidents (Score:2, Interesting)
Doping (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Volkswagen gauges are this exact color (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Volkswagen gauges are this exact color (Score:2, Interesting)
I also don't have a good concept of how bright these LEDs need to be to be effective. TFA says he's testing 2.5, 5, and 7.5 lux lights. Wiki has 1 lux as "moonlight at high altitude at tropical latitudes" and 10 lux as "Candle at the distance of [1 ft]," but I don't know if the scale is linear or otherwise (and I'm sure wavelength affects perceived brightness as well).
I do believe that whatever the intentions were (and I suspect style) they'll certainly crow about the benefits if this bears out.
Blue LED's Ruin Your Night Vision! (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Volkswagen gauges are this exact color (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Is this really the answer? (Score:5, Interesting)
Reminds me of that story a while back where they found out that keyboard indicators for caps/num/scroll lock were bright enough to semaphore a message out of a server room and down the hall.
Very useful for college students. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Volkswagen gauges are this exact color (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:optional only please (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes we are. Some of us don't think clearly until after the sun has been down a few hours. Some of us have been that way since we were six despite the fact that we were raised by dads who kept us on a military time clock--and it didn't make one damn bit of difference, because we could invert the clock in one day by staying up until morning.
I have a theory: morning people have a 22 hour internal clock. I have a 28 hour internal clock. When I was a kid, I used to think it was "insomnia", but its not, because insomnia means that you can't sleep. I can sleep just dandy--about 20 hours after I get up. If I get six full hours, I'm wired like a jack russell terrier for a long long time. So I have to live about 6 days out of the week dead tired (4-5 hours of sleep) so that I have any hope of getting those 4 or 5 hours. One day of 6-7 and I need to be up 20 hours to compensate. My clock gets advanced two or three hours sleeping (god forbid) 8, and I spend the week working it back. Friends, this is not fun. Its also not choice, because if I could trade my 28 hour clock for a 22 hour clock (like my wife has) I would in a heartbeat. I'd use those other 2 hours for sleep. 10 hours of sleep per day--that would rule.
If you study sleep--dig yourself into that theory above. You have some big papers coming your way, I guarantee you.
Only when I got to be an adult did I realize that morning people aren't "faking it". Get this: they are really rather happy its morning! All that "good morning" stuff--its sincere to them. And you have to lie and say "good morning" right back to them or they won't understand you.
Also, when I used to drive 17 hours straight (which I've done more than a few times) I couldn't wait for it to turn night so it wouldn't be so hard to stay up. Dylight is hell when a true night person wants to stay awake. If a blue light simulates that and intrudes on my precious darkness, I don't want any part of it.
Re:Great, but what about chips in the windscreen (Score:5, Interesting)
Visitors often ask me why my near new A/V equipment is in much worse condition than the older stuff. They think the black insulation tape I've got plastered all over the front is holding it together. It's really just there to block the annoying blue lights from burning holes in my retina while I'm trying to watch TV.
Re:Blue wavelengths = No night vision as well (Score:3, Interesting)
I agree totally here! Furthermore, there's a worrying increase (on UK roads at least) headlamps with a *nasty* blue tint to them. I've no idea what they're called but they *really* screw with my eyes, mostly on BMWs and boy racers. Night vision gets all messed up and there's noticeable scarring (after image) - anyone know what the bulbs are?
I've recently noticed a second set of headlight bulbs, loved by boy racers also - they're also really screwy with your eyes. They're yellow-ish, and if you've got one of these guys tailgating you, it almost looks like they're on fire - whats worse is they look as if they're flickering between high and low beam too.
Both are annoying really annoying, but as someone who has corrected vision, I'd like to know what type of bulbs these are so I can have a chat to my optometrist....
Re:Is this really the answer? (Score:5, Interesting)
We accept the dangerous because the convenience is worth it.
I remember back when I played Quake II a lot, I would see a lot of things on the road that would cause a neural reflect to tap the "7" key IIRC which selected the rocket launcher. We "accept" the dangers created by the stupidity of those around us because government heavily repress our primal responses. Man, if I ever became the overlord at the DMV, things would be different.
That includes those people who think that driving at 50kph over the speed limit entitles them to private use of the inside lane. Look at me, I'm doing 160 in a 110 zone, everybody F'ing pull into the right lane like this is my private German autobahn or I'm going to hang inches behind your bumper pulsing my halogen highbeams like a prolapsed hemorrhoid. I don't feel myself radiating "acceptance", toward your average MF POS.
If you are decoding my driving behaviour as "acceptance" your powers of perception are extremely dim. The things some people do on the highway done in a wolf pack would see your liver served up as communal pate. Now and then a few aggressive bumper humpers hung from the signage scaffolds would soon set things right. To properly designate the offense, the bumper humpers could be hung with their pants around their ankles. Is Spitzer's wife known to be in the vicinity? No? That must have been another bumper humper. I'm digging, digging, digging and not finding this "acceptance" whereof you speak within myself.
Back to the subject at hand, I actually *have* non-24 hour sleep-wake disorder, and I can tell you that blue light does not function as described in any research I've seen.
Both melatonin and blue light have phase response curves with a fixed phase relationship to your daily body temp. min., that varies somewhat from one person to the next. For most people daily min. occurs somewhere around 05:00. A sleep study which captures this marker involves finding subjects willing (and able) to sleep wired up with rectal thermometers. For improved subject comfort, most sleep studies use DLMO (dim light melatonin offset) as a proxy marker instead. This occurs in the mid evening, and is marked by the first detectable increase of melatonin concentration in saliva (which doesn't occur if the eyes are exposed to bright light).
Blue light exposure in the early morning in the hour *before* your natural rising time will advance your cycle (earlier rising time). Blue light in the evening will delay your cycle (later rising time). To maintain a 24-hour sleep cycle, I require melatonin in the late afternoon and blue light on waking.
As a side note, the neurons in the retina that detect this blue light and signal phase change to the SCN are independent of the optical neurons. Some blind people retain this sensitivity, some don't (e.g. complete retinal loss). The blind people without this retinal sensitivity often suffer from non-24-hour sleep-wake disorder.
Both the existence of this retinal cell population and the phase response curves are fairly recent discoveries. I've only been able to successfully treat my condition for a year now (no help from my doctors, I ended up finding the research myself). Prior to that, was two decades where my body clock delayed an average of 1h15 per day. Internally, I was living on Mars time.
Subjectively, trying to live in day mode while my body wasn't was *exactly* the same as discovering each day that you are now experiencing an extra hour of jet lag as compared to the day before.
Imagine the suckiest jet lag you've ever experienced knowing the next day it will only get one hour worse, and this will continue for weeks. I would eventually reach the point of total circadian insanity, have a waking period 26 to 28 hours long, sleep for 12 to 16 hours, and wake up feeling great again. The funny thing about those long waking periods: I could code 26 hours straight and not suffer any diminishment in my vigilance contrary to most research (I have
Re:optional only please (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Is this really the answer? (Score:2, Interesting)
While I've never driven an 18-wheeler, a friend of mine works for a carrier company hauling chemicals, usually hazmat stuff, across the border (we're Canadian, but he goes state-side quite a bit). While it may not be indicative of all companies, his at least is quite clear that they are to go by the book on everything, especially with their logbooks. They've been cracking down on drivers and their employers when it comes to anything that could affect the safety of the driver and other people on the road.
I don't know how long ago your experience was, and I can't really speak for American companies, or even other Canadian ones, but for the company my friend works for, cheating with the logbook to get more miles in per day is a big no no.
Some of the stories I've heard from my friend, though... man, I'm glad I'm not a truck driver. The "lot lizard" stories are enough as it is...
Re:Is this really the answer? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Is this really the answer? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Is this really the answer? (Score:5, Interesting)
- I don't have to live within walking distance of my job (inside Baltimore City) with 1000 people all trying to squeeze into the same building (due to lack of living space/overpopulation).
- Instead we can spread out to the countryside and find plenty of room to breathe & live like human beings instead of ants (crawling on top of one another).
- Instead of having to walk to the local market every day, I can buy a whole month's worth of food in a single trip, thanks to my car. That saves time and lets me pursue other hobbies.
- On weekends I can go visit my parents or friends... something which would be impossible w/o a car. (There's train service, but it takes half a day to travel just 60 miles. The train is inconvenient.)
I would not want to give up my car
(a 70mpg Honda Insight by the way).
Re:Is this really the answer? (Score:5, Interesting)
you are giving the general populace WAYYYY too much credit. Back when I was a Emergency responder the #1 cause in a crash was people not paying attention. Many times was some moron trying to grab a CD case or other item from the passenger side floor while driving. Others were women putting on makeup, men shaving, etc... From my experience in college with dealing with crashes first hand, Most people do not know that when they take their attention from the road it's dangerous as hell. One did not think turning the wheel, if she was not looking out the window, would turn the car!
The number of incredibly stupid people out there is increasing at an alarming rate. This past winter I watched a guy lose it on the highway 1/2 a mile up. the snow plume from him hitting the bridge embankment was huge. so I got over and started to slow down. the guy next to me who was looking out the same clear highway and who saw the same thing did not slow down like I did. He ended up as a secondary collision. When I asked him, "Didnt you see it happen?" he said yes, but was in a hurry and though he could make it around him.
That's plain old, full on stupid right there.
Maybe it's about temperament or self-discipline (Score:3, Interesting)
This changes w/age. People in their fifties have usually an internal clock of some 24 hrs. Some can have even 30 hours or more at their twenties. Old people can have internal clocks of 19-20 hrs, which is why they tend to get tired early in the evening and then start waking up in the very early morning hours.
In my case I don't think it's really about my internal clock, as you could really time your clock by me when I was a baby, regarding both sleeping and eating. My folks made me get up at 07:00 every morning in the week for the 17 years I lived w/them. Now I'm soon 34, and I have a day off from work, and I woke up at 13:48. Any why ?
Because it was supposedly so important to watch a few more videos from Beyond Belief 2.0 [thesciencenetwork.org]. I went to bed at 05:30 (am), just because I was so darn stubborn to keep on watching the videos about a subject that I found highly interesting. I actually played solitaire for the last few hours just to keep myself active so that I don't get too sleepy.
My theory is that at least some of the so-called night people are just like me: They're too intensive, too driven and too interested in things to let go of the day - it's like every day you go to bed it's a little death. And don't get me wrong, it's wonderful to get there when you're really tired, but the thing is that I still don't want to go to bed at night. I can say that to me going to bed feels like a punishment every and each day, and I drag it off for as long as I just can. If I didn't do this, I'd probably be more effective many days, because I would've slept as much as I really needed, had I gone to bed in good time.
I have a friend who has an intensively driven personality just like me, and he tends to do just the same things - stay awake just for the sake of it, like I guess we did when we were children. It was just so much fun to be able to stay up after your bedtime. Maybe this is in part is an effect of how we're brought up. Some Freudian would surely conclude that I want to stay up every night just to defy my parents who always put me to bed when I was a child.
This is going from bad to worse ! (Score:3, Interesting)
Guys, if you want to _really_ make better cars give us more muscle, smoother gearboxes, better crash safety and mileage. Also, do not cover up lack of innovation with eye-candy. Please leave the driving to the customer.
Re:Is this really the answer? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Does this mean that ... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Is this really the answer? (Score:5, Interesting)
Where I'm at in the upper midwest, the phrase "passing lane" isn't quite as common as you suggest. Frequently people just do whatever the hell they want, regardless of lane or their relative speed. I can't say I've ever heard (personally) of anyone being either warned or ticketed for traveling in the left-most ("passing") lane for an extended period. The closest we get to enforcement of this principle is the occasional sign which reads "Slower Traffic Keep Right".
I once spoke to a moron who said, "I drive at exactly the speed limit, so I am the faster traffic. Those people piling up behind me in the left lane should just suck it up." Speaking to a few friends who are in law enforcement, they said while he may not be directly breaking any traffic laws, they would probably cite him for disrupting traffic flow (or something along those lines).
There's no monopoly on stupid, that's for sure.
Re:Is this really the answer? (Score:3, Interesting)
And if I'm already going 10mph over the speed limit, I'm not going any faster just so you can get by. The cop around the bend doesn't care why I'm going 25 over, he's just happy to write the ticket.
Lower resolution in the eyes. (Score:3, Interesting)
That's mainly because the layout of the eye's cones (the color receptors) is a sparse hexagonal array of blue sensors filled in with a randomly-blotchy sea of red and green sensors. The blue image is lower resolution than the red, green, or black-and-white. (I'm not sure if there's also an issue with chromatic aberration causing the focus to be less accurate in blue. But that would be appropriate given the sensor layout.)
Some older taillight designs take advantage of this to produce a distance cue at ranges far beyond binocular vision usability: They have a blue jewel in the midst of the red lens. When the car is close you see red with a blue dot. When it's farther away the blue "leaks" out due to the lower resolution and the whole taillight appears purple. Still farther and the blue leaks beyond the red, producing a purple taillight with a blue aura. Result: You can keep track of the car at all distances but see red only when the car is close enough to be an immediate hazard.
Unfortunately government regulations now penalize showing colors other than red to the rear.