Birds Give a Lesson to Plane Designers

Roland Piquepaille points out a news release from the University of Michigan where researchers are looking to birds and bats for insights into aerospace engineering. Wei Shyy and his colleagues are learning from solutions developed by nature and applying them to the technology of flight. A presentation on this topic was also given at the 2005 TED conference. From the news release: "The roll rate of the aerobatic A-4 Skyhawk plane is about 720 degrees per second. The roll rate of a barn swallow exceeds 5,000 degrees per second. Select military aircraft can withstand gravitational forces of 8-10 G. Many birds routinely experience positive G-forces greater than 10 G and up to 14 G. Flapping flight is inherently unsteady, but that's why it works so well. Birds, bats and insects fly in a messy environment full of gusts traveling at speeds similar to their own. Yet they can react almost instantaneously and adapt with their flexible wings."

laden or unladen?

[ruggerboy]

a barn swallow, yes, but an African swallow...

In other news...

[djupedal]

Submarine designers look to fish for ideas on how to move in water.

Arrakis

[milsoRgen]

So does this mean we will soon of ornithopters to defend our spice from the evil Harkonnen?

Re:It's the people, not the planes.

[palegray.net]

Tell me about it. My brother suffered an awful tilt-a-whirl experience at an amusement park, and they had to clean him up what was left with tortilla chips. Not a pretty sight.

Cool idea!

[Penguinisto]

...but wouldn't it be hard to keep your drink on the tray with the pane bouncing up and down constantly?

(...and what if you're allergic to feathers? )

/P

Re:laden or unladen?

[palegray.net]

For those in need, here's the official reference [style.org] on "Estimating the Airspeed Velocity of an Unladen Swallow". Enjoy.

Re:laden or unladen?

[palegray.net]

The little search engine that could told me. That and a few ex-girlfriends who had some experience with swallows, but that's all over now that I'm married.

Swallows

[tsotha]

The roll rate of a barn swallow exceeds 5,000 degrees per second.

Is that, uh, African or European?

Coconut Migration

[flydude18]

They do make a point about the roll rate, but a Skyhawk is much more useful for migrating coconuts. An African swallow could carry one coconut at most, but they are non-migratory, so it is uncertain what sort of range they would have. European swallows are generally thought to be unable to carry even one coconut, unless two of them carried it together, but that increases the risk of mid-air collisions.

A Skyhawk, on the other hand, could carry a large number of coconuts. However, unlike with the swallows (where the main issue is not the grip but the weight ratios), the Skyhawk would be limited by the number of coconuts that could be attached. The Skyhawk is an attack aircraft with a payload of close to 10,000 lbs, which would make for a lot of coconuts. But, the only reasonable place to attach large numbers of them without causing aerodynamic interference would be the wing pylons, where the bombs usually go. If they were to fit, these coconut packages could not be much bigger than the bombs. As there are only five hardpoints, I can't imagine there being room for more than about 50 coconuts.

Still, this is a significant improvement over the swallows, and if you had to choose between the two, the Skyhawk would be a much better choice for migrating coconuts into temperate climes. Of course, something like a C-17 would be even better, but those have an even lower roll rate.

Re:Cool idea!

[clarkkent09]

with the pane bouncing up and down constantly

well don't fly on a window then

Researchers give a lesson to Birds...

[v(*_*)vvvv]

on how to recycle old news.

Re:In other news...

[Anonymous Coward]

Since when did you need a reference to make baseless statements, opinions and general rantings on Slashdot?
Where's your references?
You must be new here

Re:Missing tag.

[Scumbumbo]

It's not so much impractical as pointless. Plus the swallow would not enjoy the experience.

Re:Missing tag.

[flyingsquid]

African or European A4 Skyhawk?

Re:laden or unladen?

[laejoh]

Can you believe I have no idea what you're talking about?

Re:It's the people, not the planes.

[lostguru]

nah if you could automate the process, say with a 3d printer and some fancy robotics you could probably get that down to only 10 or 20 thousand years

Re:Missing tag.

[MadKeithV]

An African or a European swallow?

Re:It's the people, not the planes.

[fastest fascist]

More like 6000, you insensitive clod.

Re:Missing tag.

[Loibisch]

Huh? I... I don't know that.
[gets thrown off into the depths of the Bridge of Death]

mother nature, patents

[bitflusher]

if mother nature was a patent house she would sue most of today's technology company's. we scientists have made so much "inventions" based on things found in nature (helicopters, synthetic oil, camera's, walking robots, and so on). I guess if she filed all patents when the patent system started she would be filthy rich, then again ...greed and the use of money are our inventions ;)

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Strange title

[BorgCopyeditor]

Birds Give a Lesson to Plane Designers

By crapping on their freshly washed cars?

Re:Multiple coconuts

[Migraineman]

The coconut? The A4 Skyhawk is a very capable aircraft, and has multiple ordnance configurations. [skyhawk.org] There are two wing mounted pylons, and a center mounted pylon. Each pylon is capable of being fitted with an MCBR - the Multiple Coconut Bomb Rack (later re-named by some pencil-pusher to the Multiple Carriage Bomb Rack.) Captain (now Lt. General, ret) William H. Fitch [skyhawk.org] was instrumental in the development of the MCBR.

19 NOV 1959 - Fitch flew the first flight of an A-4 Skyhawk carrying a load of 16 Mark 81 inert bombs on what became known as a Multiple Carriage Bomb Rack.

Guess what those "inert bombs" were ... yep, and the A4 can carry 48 of 'em!

[oh, and to answer your question: empty weight is about 11000 lbs; max takeoff weight is 24500 lbs.]