Some People Just Never Learn

Iddo Genuth writes "German scientists recently showed what many of us suspected but could not prove — some people just don't learn. The German researchers have found a genetic factor that affects our ability to learn from our errors. The scientists demonstrated that men carrying the A1 mutation are less successful at learning to avoid mistakes than men who do not carry this genetic mutation. This finding has the potential to improve our understanding of the causes of addictive and compulsive behaviors."

What does this have to do with OCD?

[blackpaw]

"This finding has the potential to improve our understanding of the causes of addictive and compulsive behaviors."

"stubbornness" or inability to learn from mistakes has zero to nothing to do with compulsive disorders. I notice the source paper makes no mention of cumpulsive behaviours. Probably just another crap journo writeup of something he/she didn't understand and they pulled some bogus connection out of their ass.

Of all races..

[wimmi]

It had to be Germans to establish scientific proof of eugenetics.. :-(

Re:If A1 is still found today...

[kungfoofairy]

If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Are people with this mutation better able to persist at a certain task until they find a way to complete it or discover an answer, failed previous attempts be damned?

Re:What does this have to do with OCD?

[Anonymous Coward]

you are confusing compulsive disorders with compulsive behaviors. there is a distinct difference. everybody exhibits compulsive behaviors from time to time (do you check slashdot 10 times a day? do you feel the need to go to the gym daily? when you see the red button do you press it?), its when these behaviors become obsessive (as in OCD) that they are classified as a disorder.

Re:Of all races..

[pilgrim23]

Can I be the first to call "Godwin's Law?"

Re:Of all races..

[erroneus]

Well, while the notion that Germany (thanks to its association with Adolf Hitler) is somehow prone to being considered 'racist' is really wasted brain bandwidth. For thousands of years people have hated the Jews for various reasons, both correct and incorrect, founded and unfounded, stupid and otherwise. The reality of "antisemitism" (consider the fact that the word even EXISTS... is there a similar word for hating other ethnic or social groups?! There might be, but I can't think of any) is that it's a sentiment that goes beyond any borders, nationality or social background. The Jews were driven from the middle east because people didn't like them. (Don't need to go into why) They were spread across Europe and continued into their essentially forced move and migrations across the planet largely because anywhere they went, people didn't like them. Again, the reasons why are irrelevant in reporting the reality of the reasons why Jews were no longer in Israel and Israel ceased to exist for a very long time.

I guess I'm drifting away from my point here so to bring it back, I'm just saying that Germans hold no monopoly over hating Jews. There are LOTS of people who had done horrible things to them in the past.

plus some definition problems

[Quadraginta]

It's also unclear whether the behaviour is properly labeled. "Learn from your mistakes" is a phrase that assumes your choice and its consequences are clear: do this or do that, and if "this" leads to bad consequences, why, you need to "learn from your mistake" and do "that" instead.

But real life is not nearly so simple. First, there are many cases where people don't see all the choices, or even any choice. You can't be guilty of failing to learn from your mistakes if you're not even aware of the alternate choices you could be making.

Second, it's only in fairly restricted cases that a perfectly clear connection can be drawn from choice to consequences. If you try to beat the train at the RR crossing and get creamed, well, that one's easy. But what if you take a job at X corporation and are then unhappy five years later? Is it really the job, or is it the crappy marriage that you contracted, too? More importantly, how do you really know that if you'd not taken a job at X corporation, you'd be happier? Maybe things would be even worse! Real-life choices are usually befogged by the difficulty of being sure of the connection between choice and consequences, and by the difficulty of accurately guessing what the consequences of alternate choices might have been.

Finally, there is sufficient statistical noise in many choices that sometimes the best decision is not to "learn from your mistakes." We call that "persistence" and give great credit to people who display it, when their continued "failure" to learn from their mistakes eventually pays off. The guy who starts business after business, each failing, until he finally hits on the one that pays off. The athlete who comes in 2nd and 3rd, time after time, until eventually he wins. We can go back and, with 20/20 hindsight, argue that he did "learn from his mistakes" in that he didn't do the same thing in exactly the same way again. But it's still the case that on the topmost issue, the main choice, he "failed to learn from his mistakes" by deliberately choosing to do again and again something at which he failed again and again. Until one day, he didn't.

For all these reasons, I think the definition of what it means to "learn from your mistakes" in real life (as opposed to the narrow world of the academic psych lab) is pretty problematic.

Re:I call them me

[DaedalusHKX]

That's what I find peculiar. As soon as they "discover" that the old adage "not everyone is wired the same way", they immediately declare these people "damaged" or "worthless". Such is the fate of those who entrust their families to the cookie cutter society... they get a cookie cutter family, and if it doesn't fit the mold, its declared "defective."

Case in point, you have certain so called "flaws", but also talents in other areas. Every last one of us does, but most keep trying to fit the idiotic mold of society, that they miss out on where their talents would be best placed. Whether you blame genes, parental upbringing, childhood experiences or chemicals in your diet, the pedigree means far less than what is done with it.

I congratulate you on benefitting from your strongpoints, and not letting your weaker points take you down. There truly is little reason to let the crooks and liars shape your life. Ten years from now they will once again discover that the research in a certain direction was paid by certain people. Live your life, enjoy it, and let the crooks sell to other suckers. :)

Re:Of all races..

[quax]

Of all places I guess it had to be /. to find somebody confusing race with nationality.

Re: No

[Anonymous Coward]

Just because some trait exists or still exists doesnt mean that it has evolutionary advantages. It could mean that the mutation hasnt been around long enough for evolutionary preasures to take place. It could mean that the trait doesnt have any advantages but also doesnt have any disadvantages. It could mean that the disadvantages arent significant enough to prevent the organism from producing offspring.

Re:Yes

[utopianfiat]

ex-girlfriends and myself. :(

Re:Learn1 Learn2 != Learn = 0

[jmorris42]

> Seriously, we know there are some pretty smart people in the US.
> What we cannot figure out is why they are not leaving.

Several reasons.

1. There is still hope of turning the tide and sweeping the socialists from the field of battle. All we really need is one more Reagan type who understands that when strongly confronted, evil tends to yield.

2. Even with the government about to fall to the socialists, America is still a good place to be.

3. Related to #2, name somewhere better? Lots of socialist pestholes, dictatorships and failed states, but no places with greater individual liberty, rule of law,, respect for property and general opportunity to get ahead.

Seriously, go look at the rankings. Ranked on economic liberty the US is #4. Hong Kong might be #1 but I certainly wouldn't want to make any sort of longterm commitment in a place that is under a deathwatch, just waiting for the Chicoms to complete the takeover. Singapore is #2, but not very big on liberty outside of the economic sphere. Austrailia is a fraction above the US right now but recent events there indicate they are likely to fall faster than the US. And they already have more gun control tnan this NRA member would be able to put up with.

Nope, America is the last best hope for liberty. We make our stand here and either restore the old republic or die trying.

Re:If A1 is still found today...

[Fifth Earth]

On a more serious note, There's the story of how Edison tested hundreds (thousands, even) of different materials in his quest for the best light bulb filament. I'd say that's support for persistence in the face of negative feedback. From a scientific perspective, doing the wrong thing thousands of times in a row can pay off if you eventually succeed.

Uh...

[Nysem]

Is anyone else getting the impression that people are going to use this as an excuse to justify not learning from mistakes?

I'm all for discovering causes and all but I saw nothing about patients with the A1 Mutation being incapable. There was one such local news story about how a virus was discovered that causes obesity. But the way to ditch obesity remains unchanged--diet and exercise. I only hope people don't use this "mutation" as an excuse to do whatever they want. Don't be getting any ideas now kids...

Re:Yes

[Anonymous Coward]

That's only a problem if you're in technical support. It can be great if you're in sales and your product is crap.

Re:I call them me

[selfdiscipline]

I have been diagnosed with ADD as well. Somehow I've been able to push myself through school long enough to get a bachelor's degree. However, I've always had the feeling that school is not for me; that I learn better on my own. The only problem is motivation.

Giving up on learning because you're ADD is probably a bad idea, but giving up on school could possibly be beneficial. If one can find a better way of doing things on one's own, then that route should be taken.

Re:I call them me

[HazMathew]

Or these scientists have made a great discovery on how the brain works. This research can lead to treatments for people who SUFFER from ADHD, OCD, addiction possibly anxiety and depression. Ignoring mental illness is not the answer. We have to label conditions to understand them, unfortunately society associates a stigma with these disorders. Diabetes is a disorder. If a diabetic doesn't get insulin they will die. People with OCD may be suffering because of a lack of dopamine receptors. Should we stop research and deny people treatments that can improve their quality of life because we have to name the condition to diagnose and understand it? Why fight an uphill battle if you don't have to? Why continue to bang your head on the wall when it's not necessary?

Re:The Perl 6 Gene?

[doom]

After 7 years, I suspect this covers the entire Perl6 development team too.

I can't tell if your comment here is supposed to be approving perserverence or chiding stubborness, but in any case, the perl 6 development effort has achieved some notable successes over the years (and few, if any, members of the team have been working soley on perl 6...).

Off the top of my head:

• Many Perl 6 concepts were implemented as perl 5 modules, and some have become core features in perl 5.10
• Pugs: reference implementation of perl 6 implemented in haskell
• Perl 6 on Parrot (now called Rakudo [rakudo.org] continues to progress...
• Simon Cozens is impressed [simon-cozens.org] with the state of the Parrot Compiler Toolkit: "Parrot lets you implement your own languages using Perl 6 rules for the grammar and Perl 6 for the compiler."

Re:Yes

[mindwhip]

No, its not a problem if you are technical support... its called job security.