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Math Science

Has the Higgs Boson Particle Field Been Hiding in Plain Sight? 163

sciencehabit writes with a link to the ScienceNow site, noting an article saying the Higgs boson may already have been found in previous observations of the known universe. A theorist at Michigan state is arguing that scientists may have already found evidence for the elusive particle. The key appears to be that the particles that make up the Higgs field are of various 'strengths', and some of those particles may tug on others very weakly. "The lightest Higgs can be very light indeed, but it would not have been seen at [CERN's Large Electron-Positron (LEP)], because LEP experimenters were looking for an energetic collision that made a Z that then spit out a Higgs. That wouldn't happen very often if the lightest Higgs and the Z hardly interact. 'Just within the simplest supersymmetric model, there's still room for Higgs that is missed,' Yuan says. However, this lightweight Higgs is not exactly the Higgs everyone is looking for, says Marcela Carena, a theorist at Fermilab. 'The Higgs they are talking about is not the one responsible for giving mass to the W and Z,' she says. It can't be because it hardly interacts with those particles, Carena says. Indeed, in Yuan's model, the role of mass-giver falls to one of the heavier Higgses, which is still heavier than the LEP limit, she notes."
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Has the Higgs Boson Particle Field Been Hiding in Plain Sight?

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  • by moogied ( 1175879 ) on Thursday January 24, 2008 @12:31PM (#22168534)
  • Re:The Higgs Boson (Score:3, Informative)

    by clonan ( 64380 ) on Thursday January 24, 2008 @12:39PM (#22168704)
    A lot of times they use charge. You can determine the charge of a particle and then place it in a known EM field and observe how quickly it reacts which gives you mass.
  • by tylersoze ( 789256 ) on Thursday January 24, 2008 @12:40PM (#22168724)
    Yep that is correct. The photon is the carrier of the electromagnetic force, and light is an electromagnetic wave. The force felt between charged particles is caused by the exchange of virtual photons. All fields can be thought of as made of quantized particles. In the case of the fundamental forces: Electromagnetism - photons, Gravity - graviton (theorized), Weak Force - W and Z bosons, Strong Force - 8 colored gluons.
  • Re:The Higgs Boson (Score:5, Informative)

    by dmitrybrant ( 1219820 ) on Thursday January 24, 2008 @12:43PM (#22168756) Homepage
    The mass of elementary particles is measured in units of energy (thank Albert Einstein for that connection), namely the electron-volt. Essentially, physicists look for the amount of energy it takes for a certain particle to come into existence. The photon does not have mass by definition, since it travels at the speed of light. The Higgs Boson, on the other hand, is expected to be quite massive.
  • by tylersoze ( 789256 ) on Thursday January 24, 2008 @12:52PM (#22168902)
    Another interesting thing is that the range of the force is determined by the mass of its carrier particles. Gravity and Electromagnetism have infinite range, whereas the Weak Force has a very small range due to the mass of the W and Z (which is suppose to come the Higgs). Now gluons are actually supposed to be massless, but the Strong Force is range is still limited due to the fact the gluons have color and change interact with themselves (it's the only force that gets *stronger* with distance) unlike the other carrier particles that don't carry the "charge" of their field.
  • by lazyforker ( 957705 ) on Thursday January 24, 2008 @12:55PM (#22168958)

    Electric fields consist of photons? If that's not a typo of some kind, would someone care to explain?
    I think the author forgot to specify that the electric field is time-varying (to have an associated magnetic field). The combination of the two varying fields propagates as an electromagnetic wave ie light (photons). Take a look at Maxwell's Equations: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell's_equations [wikipedia.org]
  • by Bill, Shooter of Bul ( 629286 ) on Thursday January 24, 2008 @12:58PM (#22168998) Journal
    This is real news for real nerds. This story requires reading of Leon Lederman's the God Particle [amazon.com] to get to the point where any amount of explanation in the summary would help. Maybe I'm exaggerating a bit, but I'd be really, really impressed if anyone could write a summary for that.
  • by mdmkolbe ( 944892 ) on Thursday January 24, 2008 @01:06PM (#22169166)
    Even static electric and/or magnetic fields are transmitted via photons. They behave slightly differently than "regular" photons and so are called "virtual" photons, but they are no less real than the photons you are familiar with. (Explaining it further would require going into quantum theory.)
  • No, you're dead on (Score:4, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 24, 2008 @01:18PM (#22169350)

    Electric fields consist of photons?


    Since nobody's made this point yet, I'll put it out there.

    The statement is literally correct. Say you have a field in 3-space. That field itself is a 3-vector at every point in that space. When you make a fourier transform of the field, you get the field as a function of a momentum-like 3 vector. That vector is quantized, and the excitations of it are what we refer to as "photons". Add in special relativity, and you have the basics of quantum field theory.

    Try the first chapter of Lahiri and Pal's "A First Book of Quantum Field Theory". If you've had undergrad calculus, it shouldn't be that bad.
  • Re:The Higgs Boson (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 24, 2008 @01:21PM (#22169394)

    I always wondered what they use to measure the mass of elementary particles (not atoms). Can anyone explain?
    Mass, energy, and momentum are related by a simple equation. If you know the momentum and the energy of a particle, then you can determine its mass.

    The momentum of a charged particle can be measured from the curvature of the particle's trajectory in a magnetic field.

    Energy can be determined through various means, which usually have to do with measuring the energy given off when the particle slows down when going through matter. For example, you could have a leaded glass block. As a fast-moving electron goes through the glass, it gives up its kinetic energy as it interacts with the atoms in the block. Eventually the kinetic energy is turned into a proportionate amount of light.

    A more unusual technique is to measure the velocity of a charged particle by using the Cerenkov effect.

    Also, maybe photons and higgs boson do have mass, but our instruments just aren't sensitive enough (kinda what the summary is saying)?
    Photons may have mass, but experiments show that it would be very small. (Less than 6 x 10^-17 electron-volts) But the higgs, if it exists, surely has mass, because it is self-interacting, and it is interactions with the higgs field give mass to particles.
  • Re:The Higgs Boson (Score:5, Informative)

    by mdmkolbe ( 944892 ) on Thursday January 24, 2008 @01:26PM (#22169448)

    Mostly it comes down to conservation of mass/energy. If we know we put 3 electrons and 20GeV of energy into the reaction chamber and got out 2 electrons, 10GeV and one unknown particle then that unknown particle must have a combined mass/energy to balance things out. (Remember that E=mc^2 so mass could have been converted to energy and vice vesa.)

    So how did they measure the mass of the first particle? As one of the sibling posts said, put an electrically charged particle into a static electric field and watch how fast the field moves the particle (this can be observed at the macroscopic scale using gas bubble chambers).

    Of course the above requires you to know the charge of the particle, so how do we measure the charge of an elementary particle? Simple! Fill the air with neutrally charged oil droplets and "spray" them with the particle. Some droplets will pick up 1 particle and some will pickup 2 or 3 or 4. Put them in a static electric field and measure how strong the field has to be to suspend the droplets against the force of gravity. You don't have to know which ones picked up how many particle, you just have to measure the difference in the required field strength. (See the Oil-drop experiment; note measuring the mass of oil droplets is hard be macroscopically possible.)

    So in summary: we measure particle mass in terms of the masses of other particles. The first particle's mass was measured in terms of it's electric charge. The first particle's electric charge was measured in terms of how much force it imparted on an oil droplet. The oil droplet's mass was measured relative to a lump of platinum-iridium sitting in Paris. That lump was just pointed to and called 1 kilogram.

    Any questions?

  • by niklask ( 1073774 ) on Thursday January 24, 2008 @01:58PM (#22169992)

    I've never been 100% clear on this. Is the weak force really infinite but just drops off to effectively-zero faster than electricity and gravity to?
    Not really. Both electromagnetic and gravitational potentials have a simple 1/r dependence (because of massless mediating particles). If the mediating particle is massive then the potential is not as simple. Take the Yukawa potential which nicely describes pion exchange in the nucleus. It goes as exp(-mr)/r. Now, the Yukawa potential works for massive scalar fields. If the field is not scalar, like the W and Z bosons which are axial-vector bosons the potential is somewhat different, but the point is the same.

    I've never seen an equation for weak or strong interactions corresponding to the Maxwell or Newton/Einstein equations for electricity and gravity. Is that because we just don't model weak force as a field because the particles don't move fast enough?
    Electromagnetic and weak interactions has been unified for a long time now and are nicely described by a Lagrangian. The strong interaction is much more complicated because of the self-coupling of the mediating particles. But that's not to say there is no Lagrangian.
  • by tylersoze ( 789256 ) on Thursday January 24, 2008 @02:13PM (#22170244)
    Nope that's not a typo either. :) The potential goes at 1/r, the force (which is the derivative) goes as 1/r^2.
  • by niklask ( 1073774 ) on Thursday January 24, 2008 @02:14PM (#22170270)
    No typo. You have to differentiate between potential and force. Lets take the simple case of a scalar potential V(r) which is given by the integral over the vector field F(r) along some path C. Hence, V(r) is proportional to 1/r for both gravity and electromagnetism.
  • Re:The Higgs Boson (Score:3, Informative)

    by marcosdumay ( 620877 ) <marcosdumay&gmail,com> on Thursday January 24, 2008 @02:29PM (#22170524) Homepage Journal

    If you put a particle with known velocity and electrical charge in a known magnetical field, it will run on a circle. You can calculate its mass by the circle's radius.

    At particle accelerators the magnetical field there is a given, since you need it to keep the particles inside the building while they are gaining speed.

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