## Open Source 'Sage' Takes Aim at High End Math Software 360

Posted
by
CmdrTaco

from the that'll-take-awhile dept.

from the that'll-take-awhile dept.

coondoggie writes

*"A new open source mathematics program is looking to push aside commercial software commonly used in mathematics education, in large government laboratories and in math-intensive research. The program's backers say the software, called Sage, can do anything from mapping a 12-dimensional object to calculating rainfall patterns under global warming."*
## Go straight to the source (Score:4, Informative)

http://sagemath.org/ [sagemath.org]

## Re:Go straight to the source (Score:3, Informative)

## Mirror links (Score:5, Informative)

http://www.sagemath.org [sagemath.org]

http://sage.math.washington.edu/sage [washington.edu]

http://modular.fas.harvard.edu/sage [harvard.edu]

http://www.opensourcemath.org/sage/ [opensourcemath.org]

http://www.cecm.sfu.ca/sage [cecm.sfu.ca]

http://sage.apcocoa.org [apcocoa.org]

http://echidna.maths.usyd.edu.au/sage [usyd.edu.au]

http://sage.scipy.org/sage [scipy.org]

## Not new (Score:2, Informative)

## Pretty enough? (Score:5, Informative)

## Re:What about other math software? (Score:4, Informative)

Sage, on the other hand, focuses on gluing together other packages and uses Python. That means that Sage gets a lot of functionality out of the box that you don't easily get in those other packages. For example, Sage uses Twisted for its web service, Pyrex for native code compilation, Numpy for numerical computations, Vtk for 3D visualization, etc.

Also, Sage can invoke packages like Maxima, Axiom, and Yacas and glue them together with each other and other packages.

## It includes them (Score:3, Informative)

## Re:Added benefit (Score:5, Informative)

(I'm not the same AC who posted the original.)

## Re:What about other math software? (Score:5, Informative)

## Re:another one bites the dust (Score:3, Informative)

## Re:another one bites the dust (Score:4, Informative)

## Re:Very Nice (Score:5, Informative)

## Re:Not new (Score:3, Informative)

## Re:FLOSS misses the point again (Score:5, Informative)

These were all reasons that led William Stein to start up Sage.

--Mike ( a Sage developer )

## SAS (Score:4, Informative)

## Re:Maxima vs Mathematica (Score:3, Informative)

## Re:another one bites the dust (Score:4, Informative)

## Re:Pretty enough? (Score:2, Informative)

## Re:another one bites the dust (Score:2, Informative)

GIMP I can use like the back of my hand, replicating most work done in Photoshop..but every time I've tried to recommend it to a friend or co-worker: it ends in "this is too hard, I can't find anything". Alot of this could be blamed on new GIMP-users being so accustomed to Photoshop, but there is still a fair portion of blame on bad UI-design. I think I heard some time ago about a fork of GIMP specifically to create a more Photoshop-ish UI, but the name/link of it escapes me...anyone?

Inkscape is great, I have only 1 complaint, and that is it's inability to open native Adobe Illustrator file formats. Other than that, Inkscape is a truly top-notch vector graphics package.

## Re:Added benefit (Score:4, Informative)

It being a different type of app is no help: remember Pheonix/Firebird?

## Re:FLOSS misses the point again (Score:3, Informative)

## Re:What about other math software? (Score:5, Informative)

sage: f = x^2 + x

sage: df = diff(f, x); df

2*x + 1

sage: a = maple(df).integrate(x); a

x^2+x

sage: a+2

x^2+x+2

--Mike

## Re:Very Nice (Score:2, Informative)

sage: a = r([1,2,3,4])

sage: a = r([1,2,3,4]); a

1 2 3 4

sage: a.length()

4

sage: a.dim = (2,2)

sage: a

[,1] [,2]

[1,] 1 3

[2,] 2 4

sage: r.t_test(range(100))

One Sample t-test

data: sage106

t = 17.0622, df = 99, p-value alternative hypothesis: true mean is not equal to 0

95 percent confidence interval:

43.74349 55.25651

sample estimates:

mean of x

49.5

--Mike

## Re:another one bites the dust (Score:3, Informative)

With all due respect, I've done CMYK separation in GIMP. No, it doesn't come with the default install, but it is too obvious an extension not to float around out there as a free download.

As far as I recall, all I did was google "gimp cmyk" or some such. Downloaded some gizmo that had to be placed into some directory. Had to download some profiles from Adobe or something. And then the rest "just worked". Total investment maybe 30 minutes of time.

Now when was the last time you tried to do something that wasn't built-in with a commercial piece of software and the fix was as easy as that?

As far as I can tell, that's where the value of F/OSS really lies. It's not the "price" (GIMP is only 'free' if your time is worthless) but the enormous flexibility that arises from letting anybody who

caresmodify (i.e. improve upon) the tool you're using.## Re:Added benefit (Score:3, Informative)

## Re:Added benefit (Score:4, Informative)

That said, I think they should be left alone regarding the name. One is unlikely to accidentally purchase several hundred pounds worth of accounting software when you actually meant to download a free mathematical application. Or vice versa. Hence, the trademarks shouldn't be infringed. That said, no doubt it will take many lawyers and many $$ to establish it.

## Re:Very Nice (Score:2, Informative)

> wouldn't it make more sense to put sage inside of R?

1. Sage (which is nearly 5 million lines of code) is already much bigger than R.

2. One of the main goals of Sage is to be a cross-platform distribution of math software, and including R in Sage fits well with this goal. (Morever the core functionality of R compiles from source in 5 minutes.)

3. Sage uses the Python language, which has advantages over special-purpose math languages.

4. We would love for there to be an interface from R to Sage also.

By the way, R frickin' rocks, and was one of the main inspirations for Sage!

-- William (a Sage Developer)

## Re:Added benefit (Score:5, Informative)

Accounting software [sagesoftware.com]

Browser plugin [mozdev.org]

If any of these present a real problem, we've discussed the name Sage Math -- but there's no reason to change yet.

## Re:Added benefit (Score:3, Informative)

## Re:Added benefit (Score:4, Informative)

Microsoft Excel [wikipedia.org] comes to mind.

MS settled the trademark infringement lawsuit by agreeing to always refer to it as "Microsoft Excel".

Eventually, MS just bought the original trademark owner, thus ending the issue completely.

## Torrents (Score:2, Informative)

http://www.mwhansen.org/sage-2.8.13-use_this_on_sage_dot_math-x86_64-Linux.tar.gz.torrent [mwhansen.org]

http://www.mwhansen.org/sage-2.8.13-x86_64-Linux-debian.tar.gz.torrent [mwhansen.org]

http://www.mwhansen.org/sage-2.8.15-debian32-i686-Linux.tar.gz.torrent [mwhansen.org]

http://www.mwhansen.org/sage-2.8.15-debian64-x86_64-Linux.tar.gz.torrent [mwhansen.org]

http://www.mwhansen.org/sage-2.8.15-osx10.4-intel-i386-Darwin.tar.gz.torrent [mwhansen.org]

http://www.mwhansen.org/sage-2.8.15-osx10.4-ppc-PowerMacintosh-Darwin.tar.gz.torrent [mwhansen.org]

http://www.mwhansen.org/sage-2.8.15-osx10.5-intel-i386-Darwin.tar.gz.torrent [mwhansen.org]

http://www.mwhansen.org/sage-2.8.15-rhel-32bit-i686-Linux.tar.gz.torrent [mwhansen.org]

http://www.mwhansen.org/sage-2.8.15.tar.torrent [mwhansen.org]

http://www.mwhansen.org/sage-2.8.15-ubuntu32bit-i686-Linux.tar.gz.torrent [mwhansen.org]

--Mike

## Re:FLOSS misses the point again (Score:2, Informative)

## Re:Can I focus on my work? (Score:4, Informative)

sage: A = random_matrix(ZZ, 3)sage: A

[ 1 3 -1]

[-2 2 4]

[ 2 -1 -1]

sage: b = vector([3,2,1])

sage: b

(3, 2, 1)

sage: x = A \ b

sage: x

(14/11, 9/11, 8/11)

sage: A*x

(3, 2, 1)

--Mike

## Re:Added benefit (Score:5, Informative)

The current packaging of Sage was the most technically efficient way to

accomplish the goals of the Sage project quickly: (1) create a distribution

of math software that builds from scratch on all modern OS X and Linux

installs, (2) create a new library of functionality that ties it all

together and more, and (3) create interfaces to most existing mathematical

software. Creating

to do: see http://wiki.sagemath.org/DebianSAGE [sagemath.org]

> At first glance it looks like SAGE is millions of lines of source code.

> On closer inspection I find that SAGE is really just several dozen open

> source mathematics packages bundled together in a tarball with the SAGE

> name slapped on it.

Sage is not "just that". It is nearly 70 packages, which took many people

a huge amount of time to get to all build together correctly -- and in many

cases (e.g., linbox, genus2reduction, mpfi, pyrex/cython, Singular, etc.)

Sage developers fixed significant bugs in those packages or made major

contributions; in some cases taking them from being nearly-orphaned research

only systems to serious projects. And Sage is also a huge amount

of new code.

> On even closer inspection I find that there is actually

> SAGE code that appears very worthwhile, additional functionality is provided,

> a consistent interface, etc. However, I'm not going to use it seriously

> because I can't 'apt-get install sage-math'.

That will come later when people who want to apt-get Sage actually put in

the work to make it happen. This is of course happening now and I strongly

support it. I just don't have the time to do it myself.

> SAGE wants me to download

> and install more than 200MB of stuff that isn't going to be handled by

> my OS package management, and it duplicates many of the components I

> already have installed that are handled by my OS package management.

In fact, because SAGE builds completely self contained it will not

conflict with or cause any headaches with anything you have installed.

> Don't make me use your own forked and patched versions of Pari or GAP.

I am certainly not making you use anything.

> I can 'apt-get install pari-gp gap' today(and I already have). I'm

> not going to install your alternative versions and deal with any

> inconsistancies between them. I'm not throwing out the ease of use that

> OS level package management provides to get SAGE. I know many other

> people who aren't going to do it either.

Look, there is nothing whatever about the Sage project or me that is

against mainstream packaging. It's just that Sage is a volunteer project

for which most developers are naturally mathematicians. We simply don't

have the time to maintain Debianizing dozens of packages. Arrogance has

nothing to do with it. I very much hope http://wiki.sagemath.org/DebianSAGE [sagemath.org]

takes off.

-- William (a Sage developer)