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Science

Turkey Day Chemistry in the Kitchen 131

Posted by samzenpus from the obligatory-story dept.
instupor writes "Just in time for the holiday, PopSci runs through the food science behind moist turkey, perfect potatoes and flaky pie crust. Besides the actual "why," the article explains how to apply the scientific principals in your own kitchen."
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Turkey Day Chemistry in the Kitchen More

Turkey Day Chemistry in the Kitchen

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  • oh noes (Score:5, Funny)

    by telchine ( 719345 ) on Thursday November 22, 2007 @08:49AM (#21445415)
    My mother's banned me from doing science experiments ever since the last "incident". :(

    • Turkey Twizzlers [wikipedia.org] are spirals of mechanically reclaimed turkey meat, water, pork fat and rusk, together with many more minor ingredients, designed to be reheated before serving. The product became an emblem of the mass-produced processed food that [a UK tv chef] wanted to remove from schools. In the wake of the programme, several major catering organisations announced that they would no longer serve Turkey Twizzlers in schools. However, sales of Turkey Twizzlers rose 32%

  • "apply principals"? (Score:5, Funny)

    by phaunt ( 1079975 ) on Thursday November 22, 2007 @08:53AM (#21445425)
    Do the recipes actually include smearing headmasters over the turkey, or was 'principles' meant?

  • Why turkey? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Turn-X Alphonse ( 789240 ) on Thursday November 22, 2007 @08:56AM (#21445435) Journal
    I have never understood why we have turkey at Christmas (I'm a UKian not an American so I don't do thanks giving but it applies), it's a very poor meat and far too large for the average family, so how come we do it?

    I'm also allergic to dairy productions you insensitive clod!
    • It's an American fad that spread to Europe because of the novelty factor. A nice juicy ham is the traditional Christmas dish for most of Nothern Europe.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Goose was the traditional food in the UK. It's made a small resurgence, but it's still pretty much turkey everywhere. Goose fat was in high demand in the UK last year too, as a food-fad when it was endorsed by a TV chef as making rather good roast potatoes. I don't know if that will continue...

        • Dunno about goose fat (Score:3, Insightful)

          by Nursie ( 632944 )
          But duck fat potatos are a thing of beauty. And probably heart attacks.

          Give it a try (duck or goose), your vegetable oil roast potatos will seem rather second rate afterwards.
          • A mix of 75% duck fat, 25% Welsh (salty - at least 2.5% salt) butter is my preference, and remember to beat up the potatoes before roasting to get that extra crunch.

            The butter helps to brown the potatoes, and soaks into the crunchy bits to make them extra tasty.

        • A goose is just a lot more expensive than a turkey, and harder to fit in many peoples ovens too.

          fantastically good to eat though, and the other posters are right about goose fat based roast potatoes, even if you can feel your heart fall through your belly, still I'd love to try the duck fat roasted ones suggested too...

          mmmm, roast spud season is almost upon us. woohoo

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by cens0r ( 655208 )
            How is a goose harder to fit in an oven? A goose is generally 10-13lbs. A turkey can easily top 20lbs.

            • Re: (Score:1, Funny)

              by Anonymous Coward
              Wait: are you supposed to kill the goose before you put it in the oven?
            • too used to seeing smallfry here in comparison
      • Turkey isn't exactly a fad in America.
        • GP meant turkey is a fad in Europe. In Amercia it's standard.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by armb ( 5151 )
            Dickens' "A Christmas Carol" was published in 1843 and Scrooge buys a prize turkey for the Cratchit's Christmas. Over 150 years is quite a long "fad".
      • But we're talking Thanksgiving for turkeys, not Christmas. Here in the US, there are several different traditions for Christmas dinner, probably having to do with our respective nations of origin. There's turkey, ham, goose, and in my family, prime rib (standing rib roast). For really large gatherings, you'll often encounter more than one of these.

    • Re:Why turkey? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by CmdrGravy ( 645153 ) on Thursday November 22, 2007 @09:12AM (#21445517) Homepage
      I think it's basically because before frozen turkeys were widespread they were probably quite expensive and hard to come by. Before that I think we ate geese, swans, pheasants, ducks and things like that.

      I expect its probably because they were at one point expensive and available relatively exclusively to the rich that everyone switched over when they could get them more easily to enjoy a bit of 'class'.

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Interestingly enough, I've heard just the opposite. Where I'm from (Minnesota) wild turkeys are actually rather plentiful, even today. The story I heard was that Lincoln had made Thanksgiving an official holiday, and people sent turkeys to the soldiers because they were cheaper than other fowl and being quite large, could feed more people. This is just a rumor I've heard though.

        Geese are pretty big too, but you'd need several pheasants or ducks to feed a large family (or a crowd of soldiers).
        • Obviously in the US turkeys are plentiful since they are native to the US. The parent was talking about the UK where turkeys are not native animals and have to be imported or specially farmed, this is why they were at one point expensive and hard to come by over here.
    • Can't answer your question exactly, but I do remember an American neighbour explaining to me once that the reason they had their Turkey at thanksgiving was because they didn't have the patience to put up with the obnoxious birds until Christmas.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Chirs ( 87576 )
      I suspect that Christmas gatherings are smaller than they used to be.

      My family still gets together with all the uncles and cousins for Chrismas dinner. Not unusual to have 30 or more people....one turkey just isn't enough.

      What do you mean by a "poor meat"? Done properly, turkey is very tasty.

      • What do you mean by a "poor meat"? Done properly, turkey is very tasty.
        Turkey is just a big, bland, dry chicken.
        • You know, I'm a vegetarian, but I still take offense at that.
        • Then no one that has cooked it for you knows how to do it right.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by dickens ( 31040 )
          I brined my turkey 3 or 4 years ago and I'll never cook a turkey otherwise again. It makes a huge difference.

          Put enough salt in water to make an egg float, and add your favorite flavorings. Immerse bird for one hour per pound, approximately. Then roast as usual (un-stuffed, of course). Oddly the bird doesn't get salty, but the drippings are salty, so the gravy might be a little salty for your taste. You won't need to add any salt anyway.

          • If you can do that with a turkey, you may as well do it with a chicken. If turkey was that good, people would eat it more than once a year.

    • it's a very poor meat and far too large for the average family, so how come we do it?

      You know they sell different sized turkeys?

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by PhysicsPhil ( 880677 )

      I have never understood why we have turkey at Christmas (I'm a UKian not an American so I don't do thanks giving but it applies), it's a very poor meat and far too large for the average family, so how come we do it?

      This very topic merited an article over at http://www.slate.com/id/2178388/nav/fix/ [slate.com]. Poultry was popular in general because the cows had economic value (milk and labour) beyond that of birds. Pork or ham was common, but not considered fit for special events. Chicken hens were valuable for the

    • I have never understood why we have turkey at Christmas

      As another posters have pointed out, it's a fad, just like the Christmas tree. The Christmas tree in the UK came over from Germany with Prince Albert. He and Queen Victoria had one, and so all of the upper classes wanted one because it was the fashion. A bit later, they became a bit cheaper and the middle classes got them too, so they could pretend to be aristocrats for a bit. Later, they became cheap enough for everyone to afford one.

      This is also the reason we call sheep-meat mutton, instead of sh

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by onkelonkel ( 560274 )
        Good point. This applies to almost all our food animals. The animal has the old anglo-saxon name but the cooked meet has the norman french name. Cow / Beef (boeuf) , chicken / Poultry (poulet), sheep / mutton (mouton), pig / pork (porc).
    • For Christmas, I think it may have something to do with Dickens. Everyone trying to have the storybook Victorian Christmas or something. If it's good enough for Tiny Tim, it's gotta be good? maybe?

      Of course, this is especially odd considering how depressing so much of Dickens' work is...
    • By average family, do you mean four people? If so, I completely agree that a turkey is too large. Of course, we're looking at 15 people for Thanksgiving in this house, and Christmas is going to be even more people. We also have a wide variety of turkey-based leftover recipes.

      As far as poor meat goes, I can only imagine that either turkeys over there are different from turkeys here, or that whoever prepares your turkey doesn't know what they're doing.
    • Poor meat says you. You just have to know how to properly cook it [foodnetwork.com]
      • Well, I figure it's about time to let this secret out.

        The best way to cook a turkey is breast side down. This keeps the breast from cooking too fast, lets the dark meat get done first and the bones in the bird exude juice which then runs down to the breast.

        About 30 min before it's done, you turn the turkey upright and finish the cooking by browning the breast. A fork inserted into the breast, in a non conspicuous place, should have only a partial resistance to removal. The meat should be just done - wors

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by GWBasic ( 900357 )

      I have never understood why we have turkey at Christmas (I'm a UKian not an American so I don't do thanks giving but it applies), it's a very poor meat and far too large for the average family, so how come we do it?

      The turkey is native to the Northeastern United States, which were the first states to be settled. A few years ago, a family of turkeys spent an afternoon in my parents' back yard, eating worms!

      Turkeys tend to be good for feeding an extended family, as opposed to the nuclear family.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dickens ( 31040 )
        Different bird. The turkeys we buy to eat are of Mexican descent, I think, and are white-feathered. I know people who eat wild turkey other wild fowl of the northeast, and it's not the same experience at all, they say.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by GWBasic ( 900357 )

          Actually, domesticated turkeys come from North America. Take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Turkey [wikipedia.org] and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesticated_turkey [wikipedia.org]. Domesticated turkey descends from Meleagris gallopavo, which is the North American breed.

          From what I hear, it is true that wild turkey tastes different then domesticated; this is to be expected because of selective breeding and a different lifestyle.

          Ever read Darwin's descriptions of the different varieties of pigeons? He found that when h

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by dickens ( 31040 )
      With four people sitting down, we only ate one breast of our 15lb turkey (a freebee from my employer). But a half hour after eating when I found a little energy, five minutes of diligent work turned turned the remainder into three gallon-size zipper bags of white and dark meat and roasted bones. Took about five minutes, and now I have enough meat for another dozen servings of hot and cold turkey sandwiches, turkey salad and enough bones to make a gallon of good stock. So if you're handy with a knife and

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mqduck ( 232646 )

      far too large for the average family
      Here, Thanksgiving is the number one holiday for family reunions, probably even more than Christmas. So that explains that.

  • What's the number? (Score:5, Funny)

    by FredDC ( 1048502 ) on Thursday November 22, 2007 @08:59AM (#21445449)

    ... how to apply the scientific principals in your own kitchen ...


    What's the number of the poison control center again?

  • Principals? (Score:1, Redundant)

    by Sockatume ( 732728 )
    I tried to get one of our scientific principals to apply himself in the kitchen. He told me to make a new pot of coffee and get back to the lab.
  • stuff that matters...if you have problems trying to cook a good turkey and you're willing to accept the "how to cook" as news.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Lars T. ( 470328 )

      stuff that matters...if you have problems trying to cook a good turkey and you're willing to accept the "how to cook" as news.
      Gee, I'm sure you cut off the ends of your roast.

  • Cooking is science (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Slashidiot ( 1179447 ) on Thursday November 22, 2007 @09:12AM (#21445513) Journal
    Doesn't matter if people want to call it art, it is applied chemistry and physics. The only thing is that there are many variables and humans have really good sensors to appraise the results. So that instead of calculating the Na+ ions, you can just taste it and get a better reading. Instead of using high precission lab instruments, we use the built in tools we have.

    In the end, art is just applied science, but with wildly varying parameters, so it takes a very complex measuring instrument to appreciate the results.

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by should_be_linear ( 779431 )
      In the end, art is just applied science, but with wildly varying parameters, so it takes a very complex measuring instrument to appreciate the results.

      Is it another way of saying "Art is cool but I just don't have fucking idea why!".
    • Doesn't matter if people want to call it art, it is applied chemistry and physics.

      So is all art.

      In fact what determines how artistic a work is is how well the artist can conceal the physics and chemistry.

  • I can has Molecular Gastronomical Cheezburgr? [scotsman.com]

  • No Turkey For Brits (Score:4, Interesting)

    by ilovegeorgebush ( 923173 ) on Thursday November 22, 2007 @09:35AM (#21445595) Homepage
    Won't be much Turkey consumption in Britain on Christmas day. The H2N1 Bird-flu virus has caused mass culling of many types of birds. See here [bbc.co.uk] for more info.

    I hate Turkey anyway, always too dry.

    • Re: (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Turkey too dry? Hmmm. Try it this way: [fabulousfoods.com]

      Deep frying a turkey may sound like a strange concept, but trust me, it doesn't come out like you'd think. Deep fried turkey is moist and delicious and not at all greasy.

      Of course, an idea like fried turkey originated in the south, the frying capital of the United States, but it is gaining popularity nationwide. In fact, a recent block party I attended in South Central Los Angeles had three fried tukeys going . . . [continued]

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by barzok ( 26681 )
      Too dry? You're cooking it wrong. Then again, most people do.

      The bird we had tonight was soaked in a honey brine solution for 26 hours, then put on a grill w/ indirect heat and hardwood chips for smoke flavor.

      Hands-down the best, most flavorful, juiciest turkey I've ever had.

  • Math (Score:2, Funny)

    by Thanshin ( 1188877 )
    Let's assume T is a perfectly spherical turkey...

  • It's probably not "science"... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Fross ( 83754 ) on Thursday November 22, 2007 @09:41AM (#21445617)
    but if you're after perfect potatoes, I've got a couple of hints that *always* work.

    Roast potatoes:
    Pre-heat the oven (200C?) and put oil in a big oven-proof pan in the oven to heat. Meat-based fat is better than vegetable, but a mixture is good too.
    Boil the potatoes until you can scrape them a bit with a fork (20-25 minutes). Drain the water (keep for gravy if you like), put a lid on the pan, and shake it *hard* several times. Some potatoes will disintegrate but mostly they will just get really rough surfaces - this makes them crunchy.
    Remove pan from oven, pour the fat into a receptacle, leaving a tiny bit behind. Put the potatoes into this pan. Pour a spoonful of the fat on top of each potato. Put back in the oven, cook for 45-50 minutes. They will be soft in the middle, crunchy on the outside.

    Mashed potatoes:
    Don't boil the potatoes, steam them. 20-25 minutes until cooked through.
    Remove water from steamer, put potatoes in (because it's warm). Add salt, creme fraiche (or butter if you have to), about 2 heaped heaspoons for 800g potatoes.
    Use an electric whisk, whisk the hell out of them. Keep speeding up as you go, and keep going for a minute after it looks fine.
    The steaming means they won't be watery, and the whisking means no lumpy bits. Fluffy, rich and smooth mashed potatoes!

    Happy thanksgiving to all our North American cousins :)

    • Re: (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Happy thanksgiving to all our North American cousins :)


      Huh? Last time I checked, Canada was a pretty big part of North America and it is not thanksgiving in Canada... that was LAST month

    • Mashed pototoes: ... Use an electric whisk, whisk the hell out of them. Keep speeding up as you go, and keep going for a minute after it looks fine.

      The Way It's Done in Better Restaurants:

      Take the hot potatoes (Yukon Gold in the US are rather yummy for this) and, using a large thick-bottomed pot on a medium-high flame, add butter while slowly and gradually adding milk/cream (room temperature or better) and whisk (yeah, a whisk, and by hand), everything together. The process should take 15-30 minutes, depen

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by ttys00 ( 235472 )
      When I lived in London, my English housemate made potatoes this way. I'd never seen it done before, but they were the best potatoes I've ever eaten. We ate a meal of four potatoes once.
  • http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/dictionaries/english/data/d0082635.html [tiscali.co.uk] grump, grump it's one of the pleasures of being old, no if only I could remember where I left my computer...

  • Bastards... (Score:4, Funny)

    by bigstrat2003 ( 1058574 ) on Thursday November 22, 2007 @10:11AM (#21445753)
    I'm at work this morning, and now I'm hungry, you insensitive clods! :(

  • Smoked turkey (Score:3, Informative)

    by YrWrstNtmr ( 564987 ) on Thursday November 22, 2007 @10:42AM (#21445901)
    Prepare him how you want. Butter smeared over the skin, or a combo of spices, or whatever.

    Then pop him in a nice large grill for a few hours. Indirect heat of course. None of your punkass propane grills...has to be a regular charcoal grill. Pan of water in the bottom for a little steam. Baste/inject regularly. mmmmmm

    Mine is in now.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by brjndr ( 313083 )
      The grill is good, the fryer is better. Deep fried Turkey is moist and delicious.

      You use peanut oil because of it's higher smoke point, and as long as the oil is hot enough (325-350 degrees) it sears outside of the bird, so the turkey doesn't absorb any oil. The searing also keeps all the moisture in the bird's meat. Once you go fried, you never go back.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by barzok ( 26681 )
      Propane + hardwood chips works just fine.
  • First you BRINE the bird. kosher salt works well, but DO NOT use typical iodized table salt!!

    In a pot big enough to submerge the bird, pour 1 to 1-1/2 cups of the salt in. Then sink the bird. Let this soak for at least overnight. Don't worry, it won't be salty when it comes out, the salt only helps the meat hold moisture.

    When cooking, DO NOT cook to time. That whole X hours for Y lbs of turkey is bullshite. Use a thermometer. Cook it until it hits 160F-165F then pull it out.

    Also.... as a twist, bef

    • DO NOT use typical iodized table salt!!
      I've never brined a turkey, but plain old table salt works OK for chickens. Am I missing something?

      • I'm sure it works just fine, but do a comparison between table salt and fleur de sel (or any kind of natural, non-iodized variety) and the flavor is like night and day.

        I'm not the type to go all gourmet, I'll even eat bulk hot-dog weiners, but if you have the choice, go for the good stuff. Trust me, it's a huge differance.

        I had my turkey day last month, like all Canadians, and the bird turned out great with these methods, as it always does.

        Enjoy!

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by geekoid ( 135745 )
      Thanks for the skin tip, I'll try it on the next turkey I do.
      I prefer canola oil for birds.

      I would also suggest being sure at let the bird set for about 1/2 an hour before carving. Wrap in foil to keep warm.
  • That's one tiny turkey. The last time I did a turkey for Christmas the smallest whole one I could find was about 10lbs so I got a turkey crown and there was still about six months supply left on Boxing Day.
  • Alton Brown wants his kitchen chemistry gimmick back.
  • behind food, the best mentor would have to be Alton Brown [altonbrown.com].

  • Shouldn't the Slashdot subtitle today be ... (Score:5, Funny)

    by pauljlucas ( 529435 ) on Thursday November 22, 2007 @12:41PM (#21446709) Homepage Journal
    Turkey for nerds. Stuffing that matters. :)
  • I would have preferred an article about Kitchen Chemistry done on Turkey Day.
  • So, really, why does nobody mention morality here? Somehow, anything involving stem cells (or even something like the cervical cancer vaccine), immediately has to be about morality. I'm actually not even a vegetarian. I'm just curious.
  • Kitchen Chemistry? I think that was a Loompanics book. Imagine sitting at your Thanksgiving meal and haviing the DEA in Kevlar outfits raid your turkey lab.
  • tasy delicious duck, stuffed with chopped citrus and pear and butter, basted with concentrated orange juice, vinegar and honey glaze. s Now that's a tasty thanksgiving day bird!
  • When the breast meat is around 40 and the leg meat is close to 60, he puts the bird into the oven.


    Food safety experts are having fits right about now - allowing raw poultry to warm to 60 on the countertop is a huge [foodsafety.gov] no-no [usda.gov].

    • You'd be correct - that's why he recommends not doing it any longer than 3 hours beforehand. In any event, you're told that the turkey is done when the breast meat, the thickest part of the turkey, is 165F in the center - safe by then!

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