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Math

Open Source Math 352

An anonymous reader writes "The American Mathematical society has an opinion piece about open source software vs propietary software used in mathematics. From the article : "Increasingly, proprietary software and the algorithms used are an essential part of mathematical proofs. To quote J. Neubüser, 'with this situation two of the most basic rules of conduct in mathematics are violated: In mathematics information is passed on free of charge and everything is laid open for checking.'""
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Open Source Math

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  • by aproposofwhat ( 1019098 ) on Sunday November 18, 2007 @12:22PM (#21398087)
    The article is a very well argued opinion piece, and is correct in that only open-source software should ever be used in a proof.

    It is fundamental to mathematics that other mathematicians in the same field can check a proof, and the use of closed source software makes that logically impossible, for without access to the source of the application, it is not possible to guarantee that any particular operation has been implemented correctly.

    He's also plugging his own open source project, SAGE [sagemath.org] - I might have to download it and see if the rusty old brain cells can figure out how to play with it ;)

  • by MacTO ( 1161105 ) on Sunday November 18, 2007 @12:38PM (#21398209)
    This problem goes beyond mathematics, and reaches into many of the sciences. Mathematicians and scientists often place undue trust in complex software systems, simply as a matter of getting the work done faster rather than producing higher quality research. Sometimes it is a case of handling large volumes of data, in which case human intelligence and discretion is a bottleneck. Sometimes it is a matter of finding numerical solutions where analytic ones are difficult (if not impossible) to find at present. And, in the case of mathematics, I'm guessing that they are using it as a shortcut for those difficult analytic solutions.

    Then again, I must really ask if the mathematician in question understands what they are doing if they are using software as a shortcut for difficult analytic solutions. After all, if they don't understand the algorithms well enough to do the work themselves, who is going to say that they understand the limitations of the rules that they are asking the computer to apply.
  • by David Deharbe ( 1150399 ) on Sunday November 18, 2007 @12:50PM (#21398301) Homepage
    IMHO, it would be an important contribution to establish an open proof exchange format that make it possible to... exchange proofs between different tools: theorem prover, proof checker, etc. Possibly this format would have a translator to a human-readable format (e.g. based on TeX) that would also make it possible for humans to review the proof process.
  • by snarkh ( 118018 ) on Sunday November 18, 2007 @12:51PM (#21398313)
    I have seen from personal experience, how a compiler error (some sort of incorrect optimization) led to a subtle difference in the results of a simple classification task.

    The insidious thing about that particular result was that it looked very similar to the correct. In fact the difference would not have been found if two people did not run different versions of code independently (and more or less coincidentally) arriving to slightly different error rates.
  • openmodelica.... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by __aasmho4525 ( 13306 ) on Sunday November 18, 2007 @01:02PM (#21398409)
    not entirely on-topic, but i figured the slashdot community might be interested in this tool.

    OpenModelica [ida.liu.se]

    a very nice modelling package that can help you with practical mathematics issues like mathematica might.

    cheers.

    Peter
  • by Gadzinka ( 256729 ) <rrw@hell.pl> on Sunday November 18, 2007 @01:17PM (#21398547) Journal

    Python seems to deftly marry precision with looseness. When code is laid out in Python I find it is easier to see what it's trying to do than other languages. It's aesthetic qualities aside, it supports a number of features out of the box which I imagine would be ideal of mathematicians. To list a few, it's treating of lists and tuples as first class objects, support for large integers, complex numbers, it's ability to integrate with C for high-performance work.

    I often think of Python as "basic done right" and it's ideal for mathematicians (or anybody) who don't want to think about programming but the problem at hand.
    I could also recommend Ruby for the job. It has all the features you recommend, and more. If you could forget for a moment about the monstrosity that is Rails (I don't know, lobotomy might do the trick), the language in itself is quite beautiful.

    There is one special feature of Ruby, that I miss in every single programming language I used since: iterator methods. Any time I want to iterate over elements of an array or hash I just do:

    myhash.each_pair do |key,val|
      puts "#{key}: #{val}"
    end
    That's it, instant "anonymous function" given as a parameter in estetically pleasing syntax. In fact, "for" loop in Ruby is just obfuscated way of calling method #each on an object. But the madness doesn't stop here:

    File::open("somefile.txt") do |fh|
      fh.each do |line|
          puts line
      end
    end
    It's a pity that so many people disregard Ruby as a "platform for Rails". It is a feature complete countepart to Python, and as my company high volume systems can attest, can handle anything other languages can handle.

    Robert
  • by Anonymous Brave Guy ( 457657 ) on Sunday November 18, 2007 @01:28PM (#21398605)

    I fear you and/or the AMS are giving too much credit to the big names in mathematical software. Sure, they have some bright people and they do some useful research in their own right, but they're still only human. They make mistakes, their software has bugs, and they don't know lots of deep secrets that the rest of academia don't. In fact, the development practices at certain high profile mathematical software companies leave a lot to be desired; they tend to hire PhD types, who know a lot about mathematics but may or may not know jack about how to write good software. I rather doubt they're about to kidnap all the leading edge research and make it disappear from everyone not working for them.

    Disclosure: I work for a mathematical software firm well known in its industry, and I've encountered some of the others in a professional context. I am speaking personally and not on behalf of anyone else here.

  • by legrimpeur ( 594896 ) <legrimpeur@gmailCHEETAH.com minus cat> on Sunday November 18, 2007 @01:38PM (#21398705)
    ... try to read a paper from their journal (JAMS http://www.ams.org/jams/2003-16-03/S0894-0347-03-00422-3/S0894-0347-03-00422-3.pdf [ams.org]) and you will be asked for... money. Well that's their interpretation of "... In mathematics information is passed on free of charge..." cheers
  • by mathcam ( 937122 ) on Sunday November 18, 2007 @01:56PM (#21398835)

    And, in the case of mathematics, I'm guessing that they are using it as a shortcut for those difficult analytic solutions.
    This is certainly one application, but the use of computers in the more "pure" aspects of mathematics is nothing to sneeze at either. Programs like GAP for group theory, PARI for number theory, and Macaulay for commutative algebra and algebraic geometry play a significant role in the development of their respective subjects. For example, there's very little you can say about the Monster group [wikipedia.org] without the aid of computer calculations -- it's not that researchers don't understand the algorithms involved, it's that it's physically impossible (given reasonable time constraints) to say anything non-trivial without computer aid. To address the other concerns, unlike the numerical solutions, there are frequently completely independent algorithms for checking the results of your first algorithm, so that trusting the original algorithm is less of an issue.
  • by poopdeville ( 841677 ) on Sunday November 18, 2007 @02:03PM (#21398881)
    I fear you and/or the AMS are giving too much credit to the big names in mathematical software.

    I can see why you might think that, but my point had little to do with commercial software houses. My main point was that computer-assisted "proofs" are not proofs in the mathematical sense. They're "results" that rest "scientifically" on the software and hardware and real world. It really doesn't matter whether I use my implementation of Newton's Method or Mathematica's. Neither should be trusted in a proof.

    I forget who it was (Wiles maybe?), but a famous mathematician once described doing mathematical research as groping around a dark cave, trying to find an exit. A computer program is like a flashlight. Not an exit, but a helpful tool for finding it.
  • by Garridan ( 597129 ) on Sunday November 18, 2007 @02:43PM (#21399157)
    Wow. I've never seen the phrase, "I don't know anything about this topic" drawn out into such a long statement!

    Disclaimer: IANAM (I am not a mathematician), but I'm applying to grad schools in math, and I work with mathematicians who use computer-aided proofs on a daily basis. Most mathematicians are not concerned with such loose and squirrely concepts such as colliding universes. We care about actual mathematical objects.

    For instance, the proof of the four-coloring theorem -- first it was proved by purely mathematical means that every planar graph is essentially the same as one of a few thousand small "representative" graphs. By "essentially the same", I mean that if the representative graph is four-colorable, than the original graph is, too. Then, use a computer program to color each graph with four colors. Finally, give the results to a couple of independent teams and have them verify that your coloring contains no errors.

    This isn't the mess of tweaks & hacks that you describe. Now. With closed-source math software, one can never be sure that provable methods are used. With open source, one can.

    Sage [sagemath.org] has bugs. You can fix them [sage-trac.org]. Try that with Mathematica.
  • Re:PDF rant. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by izomiac ( 815208 ) on Sunday November 18, 2007 @03:00PM (#21399305) Homepage
    The main reason they should need a warning is because they aren't webpages. Either they get loaded through a browser plugin or they must be downloaded. In the former case, most browser plugins are slow to load, and nearly impossible to stop from loading, so a warning is nice. In the latter case they take a bit of effort to open and often people are too lazy (a warning isn't critical though). In both cases they are more inconvenient to use than HTML or text, so that's why I personally don't care for them. (IMHO, for online documents: html >= txt > rtf > pdf > jpg >> doc)
  • by mathgenius ( 526070 ) <simon@NoSPaM.arrowtheory.com> on Sunday November 18, 2007 @03:16PM (#21399463) Homepage
    These guys are advocating setting up a peer-review process for open source software in machine learning. The idea is that this would encourage researchers to spend more time on the software component of the publication, and perhaps produce something that others can use aswell.
    The article is in the Journal of Machine Learning Research. [mit.edu]
  • spss (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 18, 2007 @04:12PM (#21399927)
    SPSS is the big stats package that all the social sciences and Psychology departments use. It is proprietary. Universities everywhere have bought into this package and the proofs for everything every student produces is on the Blind Faith of SPSS. And you bet you have to pay for it. There is FOSS alternative to SPSS, it is called 'R'. It is not well known. It is hypocritical of academic institutions anywhere to insist that their students prove their work on SPSS, since the code upon which the proof rests cannot be seen.
  • by grcumb ( 781340 ) on Sunday November 18, 2007 @04:51PM (#21400255) Homepage Journal

    If they really want mathematics to be "free", then they can post the LaTeX's & the PDF's of these books on the internet for anyone to download, and they can pay for the server disk space & bandwidth THEMSELVES.

    In the meantime, they can take their marxist hypocrisy and shove it right up their good-for-nothing, lazy, worthless asses.

    Would these be the same kind of good-for-nothing, lazy, worthless asses who brought us Special Relativity while working in a lowly position in the Patent Office in Bern? You know, the kind who got together with friends to peruse and discuss the latest freely available scientific texts, the same texts that led him to revolutionise science more than anyone since Newton?

    The books in the Princeton Library are free, thanks to the generousity of far-seeing individuals who realised that their money was better spent on a library than a new yacht. They, at least, saw the benefit of sharing knowledge with everyone, regardless of their means. I can only hope that, somewhere in that misanthropic little husk you call a heart, you will some day find room for a similar spirit of openness and sharing.

  • by eh2o ( 471262 ) on Sunday November 18, 2007 @06:44PM (#21401201)
    One thing that I find interesting about mathematical proofs is that they keep getting smaller and easier to explain. If you consult text books of just a few decades ago, they are significantly more verbose than today's equivalent. For example, "Linear Algebra" by Friedberg, Insel and Spense (a standard text), 1979 (fist edition), is almost twice the number of pages as "Linear Algebra Done Right" (Axler, 1996), a book that covers the same material.

    Furthermore the advent of computers has made the illustration of concepts much easier through high quality and even interactive graphics.

    In other words, we not only stand on the shoulders of giants, but we take their work and compress it into more easily understood pieces. Often upon reaching the next higher level of understanding, the shortcuts that we could have taken to get there become more apparent. Today, the number of pages of derivation between basic axiomatic logic and the proof of Fermat's last theorem is perhaps a few thousand. But maybe, in another hundred years, we will actually find that "simple" proof that Fermat hinted at (or not, who knows).

    For what its worth, some people lament the "loss" of the old texts, but I think this is misguided. That material has no place in modern education.

    As for devious paradoxes, these seem to be more a problem in physics, where models are incomplete, but taken to be complete, than in mathematics where incompleteness is intentionally controlled to avoid paradox. We also have, for example, the completeness theorem showing that all well-formed expressions can be evaluated. And, for the most part the possible locations of devious paradoxes seem to be known (e.g. continuum hypothesis etc).

    Automated theorem provers are first proven to be correct given the allowed operations and assumptions before they can be allowed to prove anything. There is no magic here; they could just as easily be replaced by a warehouse full of German mathematicians (German mathematicians were famous for solving intensely mechanical problems before the advent of computers (e.g. taylor expansions to hundreds of terms and huge integrals, etc).

  • by martin-boundary ( 547041 ) on Monday November 19, 2007 @02:09AM (#21404123)
    It seems to me that you're confusing lack of verbosity with changes of mathematical points of view. It's true that definitions get refined over time, but a changed point of view does not always equate with improvement. Every generation works on slightly different mathematical questions, and changes of viewpoint often merely reflect the problems and interests of the previous generation. There are plenty of "dead" fields that nobody works in anymore.

    Try reading books from the early 20th century [uni-bielefeld.de], and ask yourself how much overlap there is with a recent textbook. You won't find that much.

    In other words, we're not so much compressing the past as merely picking the bits we're interested in and ignoring the others.

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