Does Computer Use Actually Cause Carpal Tunnel? 339
BoldAC writes "A geek physician has reviewed the medical literature that explores if a relationship exists between computer use and carpal tunnel syndrome. 'Typing at the keyboard or using the mouse for hours and hours upon end just seems like it has to be horrible for your joints, right?' His conclusions certainly seem to contradict the thinking of many: 'The current research shows that computer use has very little role in causing carpal tunnel syndrome.' It even seems that both Harvard and the Journal of the American Medical Association agree with his conclusions."
Re:I have CTS (Score:4, Interesting)
So, he's right, and you're kind of right. The CTS was not caused by your computer use, but your computer use certainly did aggrevate it.
PS. I was about to applaud you for being the first "non-porn" post until your last line. *sigh*
Driving (Score:5, Interesting)
I think it's a serious confounding variable, that most office workers have those two things in common: significant time spent driving a car, and typing on computer keyboards.
Re:PORN (Score:2, Interesting)
However, since I don't have any of those things, that begs the question, from whence commeth my fricking carpal? I have some ulnar [orthoinfo.org] issues which probably stem from shoulder tension, but for the actual carpal, I get it when I have an unusually high typing month, and it goes away when I take it easy for a few weeks. Worst I ever got it, I was in college, weighing 165, living in student digs with a really crappy desk. I've got more medical problems now, I weigh more, why less carpal? Not like I type less.
To say that it's completely unrelated is disingenous...There is obviously a strong correlation, and while that does not prove a causal relation, it's certainly noteworthy.
My Personal Story (Score:5, Interesting)
What I believe is going on is that CTS/RSI pain is not caused by doing one thing too often or putting your body in one position too often. Instead, it's caused by not doing other things often enough or putting your body in other positions often enough. I don't have any proof of that except for my own personal experience and the experiences of others that I've told, but those seem to indicate that bad posture/ergonomics can be counteracted by regular exercise of the affected area.
Re:I agree (Score:3, Interesting)
This statement isn't supported by current scientific knowledge. Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myopia [wikipedia.org]
"Near work has been implicated as a contributing factor to myopia in some studies, but refuted in others."
Personally, I read voraciously, and have stared at a monitor 8+ hours per day for about 20 years. I have no nearsightedness whatsoever.
Re:PORN (Score:4, Interesting)
I cured what I thought was "RSI" using this "mindbody" approach:
http://www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu/handout.doc [harvard.edu]
(Coincidental that Harvard is hosting this document, maybe the researchers should look at it themselves)
Here is the Google cache [216.239.51.104] for those who don't want to open a
I suffered for 1.5 years (where I didn't work because I didn't think I could) before I found that my cure was a completely psychological approach. From my research of CTS (as well as what my doctor told me), it is completely unrelated to typing. And from my experience with "RSI" and understanding what it actually was, I no longer believe you can actually hurt yourself from typing too much.
I now type sometimes all day long without taking many breaks. I play guitar, bass, and drums. I don't worry about posture at all. Ergonomics are only a way for me to get comfortable, not to avoid injury. I have no pain at all, and don't worry about ever having "RSI" again. It's been 5 years since I cured myself.
Please read up on the approach I'm talking about here before you flame me. It actually makes sense once you put all the pieces together. You can also search for "sarno tms" to find more info.
Read the book "The Mindbody Prescription" by John E. Sarno if you can, its really the best source for an explanation of this.
Re:Bull-fucking-shit (Score:3, Interesting)
The reason that computer-related RSI is not an issue anymore is because we got smart about how to work at computers. Put differently, I'm sure that the first years after tribes figured out how to chop wood involved lots of hacked-off fingers, leg wounds, splinters in the eyes and other accidents. A couple of thousand years later, it's still a dangerous activity, but no one thinks that "axe in hand" is a medical condition - it's a sign that someone didn't pay attention in wood-chopping class. Same thing with computer-induced RSI: it's a sign that someone didn't pay attention in computer-ergonomics class.
With that in mind, I'm sick and tired of hearing how RSI is a racket because it's not diagnosed as often as it used to be. It's an issue, it's just that we figured out how to deal with it. Not only that, but it's something that everyone needs to know about if they work with computers.
Pregnancy is a disease? (Score:3, Interesting)
Yeah, there are a couple of points in those fifteen year-old articles which are sort of interesting. --That if you have arthritis, then you may be at higher risk. (Duh. --Though such points are important to medical insurance companies; if you have a prior condition, then you aren't going to be covered for your injuries.)
In any case, I don't really see why articles published fifteen years ago when RMI's were still a relatively new and misunderstood concept are suddenly worth getting upset over. It might be that the editor isn't too swift. . .
"Classically the associated diseases are the following: rheumatoid arthritis, menopause, hypothyroidism, acromegaly, end-stage renal disease, pregnancy, and obesity. Even then the data is not clear that the repetitive use contributes any."
Menopause is a disease? Pregnancy is a disease? No. But ending a sentence with the word 'any' is evidence of poor journalistic skill.
Seriously, the original claim looks like science making the classic mistake; if the lab can't explain a phenomenon, then obviously the observers out there in the public are at fault. It's swamp gas or hysteria, (menopause?). Or indeed, maybe the money funding the studies came from corporations worried about having to pay out on medical claims. Who knows? What I do know is that if you use your hands in certain sitting-at-desk work for long enough without breaks, your wrists and joints start to hurt and your back and neck can get messed up, and the skin can even wear right off the parts of your hands rubbing against the desk / paper, etc. --I knew an animator who ruined her hands trying to meet a crazy deadline with a crazy amount of work and ended up smearing blood across her easel. She was unable to work for several months afterwards. But then I suppose we can just blame her chronic condition (being female) rather than repetitive motion stress for the injury.
What a silly article.
-FL
Poor form... (Score:2, Interesting)
Similarly, are your wrists flat or does your hand form an angle with your forearm? An angle (particularly with resting your wrists on the tabletop) means that the sliding around bits has to go around corners. Normally, this probably isn't so bad (as long as your wrists aren't on the tabletop) for 'normal' use because your hand/forearms may change angles and such a lot but if you do it while typing, you may spend hours with your wrists bend and binding your sliding bits against the tabletop.
I've been typing (both programming and writing) for nearly 30 years now and have never had an RSI that I know of.
Re:Depends on your position (Score:3, Interesting)
Is this carpel tunnel or RSI? Or something else?
As an aside, I didn't believe that these problems existed until my late 20's, when I started experiencing them after a lifetime of the same pattern of computer use.
Re:PORN (Score:4, Interesting)
The problem is that if data entry, or general computer use can be attributed to carpel tunnel, then there is a lot of liability large companies would be responsible for. It wouldn't surprise me if this isn't one of those "paid for results" studies. I have no proof in saying it is, I'm not saying that it is, just that I wouldn't be surprised to find out it was. There is big money in work related injuries and disproving them. A company that could get lower rates and not have to payout for something directly related to the job would save a bundle if they didn't have to worry about it.
As for my friend, her job and working 12-15 hours a day 4 days straight with 2 days off in between was the only repetitive work she did that was associated with carpel tunnel. When going to her family doctor, he was convinced it was the computer work. He eventually put her on working restrictions of 8 hour days, the pain and problems were relieved to some degree and she was eventually fired and had to find a new job. This actually worked out in her benifit because the job she found after that paid almost twice as much, had reasonable hours and the company paid "employee insurance program" took care of the carpel tunnel 8 months later. As far as I know, she hasn't had issues with it ever since and does more in her off time then even when she had the old job.
I think there is a reason they call carpel tunnel a repetitive stress injury. Maybe the article is correct in that if certain limits are in place, there is no correlation. But I doubt that outside those settings it could be true. People like you and my friend sort of show it to be otherwise. I think going from 12-15 hour days to 8 hour days with regular breaks helped her a lot. But she still needed to have something sniped to end everything.
Re:Emacs Pinky (Score:3, Interesting)
I had this achy pinky because of emacs... All those Ctrl key sequences had a really negative impact on my left pinky. And, when I switched to vi, it disapeared. It's probably because most sequences use both hands on vi.
When I had to use Eclipse for some java project, I started to alternate between the both control keys and to push the left one, not with the tip of the finger but with the joint. I had no problem so far for years.
Re:Not actually computer use that causes it... (Score:4, Interesting)
FWIW, I found that switching the mouse to the left hand for a month and then alternating every couple of weeks made all my arm pain go away. It takes a day or two to get used to using the mouse in the off-hand, but was well worth it for me.
Re:Emacs Pinky (Score:5, Interesting)
"I ain't got no money" is actually entirely grammatical (from a linguistics point of view), however it fails to meet the standards of formal language that Grammar Nazis prefer.
Interestingly, it could be related to Plato's Allegory of the cave. Grammar Nazis actually understand grammar little better than the average native speaker, simply they are dogmatically bound to believe that the shadows are reality, and that the arbitrary rules they have established to explain grammar are what grammar is really about.
Those who have gotten out of the cave, and see the reality of grammar, and the entire flexibility thereof, understand better than any Grammar Nazi why the above phrase was actually grammatical. And when they would attempt to explain why it is actually grammatical (it's SVO order, it's negated, and has appropriate concordation with the negation.) the Grammar Nazi looks at his cave wall and says that those reasons don't exist, because "ain't" isn't a word, and a "double negative" would logically make a positive.
Grammar Nazis are to grammar as Chiropraters are to medicine, because neither actually really practice the science described. Rather they study fringe elements related to that science, and believe their positions to be equally valid as the actual science itself.
Re:Emacs Pinky (Score:3, Interesting)
I had the same problem, but it affected the entire left side of my left hand.
However, it occurred after I switched from an NCD X-term to a PC running Windows and Reflection X. The typical position for the control key on a PC keyboard requires me to twist my entire hand to press it.
I just remapped the typical PC keyboard so that the caps-lock and control keys are switched. It causes me a bit of trouble when I use other people's keyboards (or they try to use mine), but the pain never returned.
Re:Driving (Score:3, Interesting)
I really think stress is the real culprit. Unfortunately, it's very hard to stop...
Anonymous Article = Insurance Company FUD (Score:3, Interesting)
Funny how we can't check out the author to see if he (or she) is really a shill for the workers' comp insurance companies, not unlike the shills for Exxon who deny that the planet is getting warmer.
Ever been to a trial of a personal injury case? There are plenty of orthopedic physicians who will, for a buck, testify that Joe Plaintiff wasn't really crippled, or even hurt, in the accident that totalled his car.
The shill orthopedists live in great, big houses up on the hill.
Re: keyboard ergonomics (Score:3, Interesting)
I've suggested this to a number of coworkers, and it has reduced their wrist pain in most cases. Obviously your experience is different... people's bodies can vary considerably.
My other favorite workstation ergonomic discovery is a using a trackball instead of a mouse. This lets me make all those tiny little precision movements with my fingers, which are good at that sort of thing, instead of with my forearm, which seems to be better at larger, less precise motions. This keeps my forearm from cramping up during long computing sessions.