Science_afficionado writes "A new study has found that cockroaches are morons in the morning and geniuses in the evening in terms of their learning capacity. Previous studies suggest that the learning capacity of both people and rats are also affected by their internal biological clocks. But the effect is far more dramatic in cockroaches and it is the first time it has been found in insects. And, no, the researchers didn't try giving their cockroaches a sip of coffee to see if it revived them!"
Would they learn better if installed in groups? In cubicles?
Are there pointy-haired cockroaches?
Did the researchers give them 20% of their time to work on personal projects?
come one, where's the research!
My previous boss was also a moron during the day and only when it was time to leave, came he up with a genius idea and called a meeting. Does that make him a cockroach?
Before you mod a post as flamebait for having an obscene sounding word like Muttersprachler, take three seconds and use Google translate [google.com]. He just used German to indicate that the person with the grammatical error seemed to be a native German speaker. Whomever modded that post as flamebait was a Wienersnitzel.
Sorry to disappoint you, but that sentence is neither aggressive nor dirty (except grammatically). Muttersprachler just means native speaker, and there are absolutely no negative connotations involved.
As for being the best language for cursing: keep thinking that way if it helps you picking up a second language. Honestly. I thought the same way about Japanese and it motivated me to learn it, only to understand that cursing makes you sound like an imbecile, like in any other language. It just doesn't matter
The study was supported by a grant from the National Institute of Mental Health.
Presumably they're interested in the effect of the circadian system on memory aquisition and retrival, which is certainly worth studying and probably simailar in all animals, and its far easier to do initial work on insects and then scale it up to mammals.
There might also be direct benefits to understanding cockroach behaviour, since they are a major public health risk in some parts of the world.
They also seem to assume there are no other factors involved. Maybe it's not 'ability' to learn but 'desire' instead. Maybe their digestive system doesn't normally work at that time of day, and there's not enough incentive to learn. There's probably a billion other reasons they haven't thought of, right down to which researchers worked with which groups, and what other smells were nearby at each time, etc. I'm sure they tried to rule out all outside influence, but it's impossible to do so completely.
I'd also like to remind everyone that a finding doesn't have any weight until it's been independently verified by a couple other labs.
I don't think a cockroach has enough theory of mind to 'desire' to learn. And in any case there's no practical difference between desire to learn and ability to learn if predicting cockroach behaviour is the outcome. Either it will learn or it wont.
With respect to other influences, I'm sure a journal like PNAS wouldn't take the research if it had fatal flaws. They're quite fussy.
Also, I don't see why a study needs to be replicated before it has any weight. Unless you think there are significant flaws
I haven't heard of insects committing suicide before, but there has been a couple that have walked under my feet as I am walking. I guess Darwin would have something to say about that....
You think that's a stupid bug, I've actually seen an insect try to commit suicide and fail.
Last week, I saw a huge butterfly try to kill itself by attempting to become entangled in the web of a much smaller spider. It was like watching someone trying to commit suicide by driving a Mack truck through a mobile home. Luckily, the spider managed to escape the flailing butterfly, but the web did not have a good day.
Anyone who has had to deal with cockroach buildups in an apartment or house would know that in order to prevent them from coming to your kitchen is to wipe it down really well, because once they start coming, it's damn near impossible to stop them. Once they find a hint of food in a certain location, they will continue to look for it in the same location...
I'm pretty sure a sip of coffee would kill the cockroach.
"Caffeine is found in varying quantities in the beans, leaves, and fruit of over 60 plants, where it acts as a natural pesticide that paralyzes and kills certain insects feeding on the plants. It is most commonly consumed by humans in infusions extracted from the beans of the coffee plant and the leaves of the tea bush, as well as from various foods and drinks containing products derived from the kola nut or from cacao. Other sources include yerba mate, guarana berries, and the Yaupon Holly." -- wikipedia
An alternative method involves covering the outside of the jar with scotch tape or packing tape in order to give sufficient traction for cockroaches to climb into the jar without the requirement of placement next to a wall.
Funny, I lived in a place once where I had to set my drink in the center of a square made from tape turned sticky-side-up just to go to the bathroom.
The little bastards learned that a stovetop burner would kill them so they started climbing up the wall & onto the ceiling above th
The little bastards learned that a stovetop burner would kill them so they started climbing up the wall & onto the ceiling above the pot & dropping in.
That is the most horrifying thing I've ever read in my life... I am now going to stock up on RAID and maybe even a shotgun in the event they try and take over.
If there's a nuclear winter, and cockroaches (which are generally said to survive despite radiation) are left in the dark (somewhere), will the darkness help them evolve to the point of being sentient?
Maybe some experiments aka "learning during darkness" should be conducted on ISS. hmm..*wondering about that ep of Justice League when Vandal Savage was the only human left on Earth. Cockroaches evolved and became big. With the red sun (less sunlight), they appeared to be more organised and smarter. Maybe the
If there's a nuclear winter, and cockroaches (which are generally said to survive despite radiation) are left in the dark (somewhere), will the darkness help them evolve to the point of being sentient?
You seem to be implying that they aren't already sentient. Anyone who has dealt with cockroaches before knows damn well they are!
Thanks, it's not very easy to read but I found some interesting bits around page 10. They also seem to have done their testing with people whose sleep schedules were disrupted - either deprived of sleep or just had different sleep patterns for testing.
Back in my college days, there was a nasty area right across the boulevard from Monterrey Tech (in Mexico) unaffectionately known as The Bronx. During weekends, it wasn't uncommon to see a molotov cocktail hurled here and there, from four or five story apartment buildings, just for the hell of it. There would be a towable hot dog stand parked on the curb, suddenly you'd hear a perpetrator from above yell "MOLOTOV!", the hot dog vendor would yell back "FUCK YOU!", then a molotov cocktail would fly in a parabola right above customers' heads and burst into flames in an empty lot across the street. Some of the customers would smile or laugh, some would groan in exasperation - but nobody was shocked.
Sanitation in the area was a disaster, there were so many cockroaches in the buildings that many students simply gave up trying to exterminate them and simply accepted them as "pets", going as far as wagering on cockroach races. I don't know if it still exists, but back in those days there was a cheap repellent stick known as Chinese Chalk that was smeared on surfaces, and while it was fresh, supposedly no cockroach would cross the boundary. Racecourses were designed with Chinese Chalk, beers were popped open, wages were placed on the floor, and the festivities began.
Years later, simply mentioning The Bronx can still make ex-alumni shudder.
Aw, what the hell, here's another good cockroach story:
One day, a friend of mine saw to his horror, three cockroaches huddling in his kitchen wall. So the guy approached nervously with a can of Raid and, involuntarily shutting his eyes, blasted 'em for about ten seconds before jumping several feet back. With morbid fascination and never taking his eyes off them, the guy slowly approached the dying, quivering roaches, still attached to the wall. He was just a couple of feet away when two of the roaches, in a final, heroic act of revenge, lunged at him. Screaming bloody murder in a high pitched tone that must've cracked a neighborhood window or two, the guy jerked violently, tripped and fell in a weird position, dislocating his shoulder. On a happy note, my friend himself tells that story, and has a good laugh while doing so.
What the hell is this awful flash website?? The complete text of the story is flash, and before i can read the article, i have to watch an animation that prepares me for the structure of it??
Flash wasn't even installed on the computer I'm using right now, so I spent about thirty seconds looking for a "Go Straight to Article" link before realizing there wasn't one.
If you do get to the final article, though, there's a "Tell us what you think of our new look!" link. Amusingly, there's a html/txt version, but t
Learning is a vacuous concept that you can talk to your grandmother about but science has moved away from it because it doesn't address precisely what is learned or precisely when the learning takes place.
So let me see if I understand you: Science has abandoned the concept of learning because it doesn't adequately explain learning?
Actually, you've got it backwards. Operant and respondant conditioning are vacuous concepts that are at least 60 or 70 years old. They're lacking in explanatory power and have been shown false by almost every study of the processes of language learning ever. In fact, the method of teaching a foreign language based on good ol' BF Skinner's ideas about "learning" was the most spectacular failure that teaching has ever seen.
Another checklist... (Score:5, Funny)
Tell me about it (Score:5, Funny)
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Responding on
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free advice for moderators (Score:2)
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As for being the best language for cursing: keep thinking that way if it helps you picking up a second language. Honestly. I thought the same way about Japanese and it motivated me to learn it, only to understand that cursing makes you sound like an imbecile, like in any other language. It just doesn't matter
what does this mean? (Score:5, Funny)
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Who the f**k sponsors those studies (Score:1)
How do you learn if I wake you up at 3 am in the morning?
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From TFA
The study was supported by a grant from the National Institute of Mental Health.
Presumably they're interested in the effect of the circadian system on memory aquisition and retrival, which is certainly worth studying and probably simailar in all animals, and its far easier to do initial work on insects and then scale it up to mammals.
There might also be direct benefits to understanding cockroach behaviour, since they are a major public health risk in some parts of the world.
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Wait...wait.. I'm confused. Are we talking about politicians here?
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No idea (Score:5, Funny)
"An interesting question is why the animal would not want to learn at that particular time of day. We have no idea."
The interview was conducted during the day. I leave you with your own conclusions on the similarity between cockroaches and some people.
"Genius"?! (Score:2, Insightful)
These are cockroaches we're talking about here, folks. Calling them "genius" at any time of the day is stretching it just a little, yes?
Of course, the same could most likely be said of the person who came to mind when you read the summary, too....
Re:"Genius"?! (Score:4, Insightful)
I'd also like to remind everyone that a finding doesn't have any weight until it's been independently verified by a couple other labs.
Parent
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Cue in the "LEAVE COCKROACHES ALONE! They're just insects! You gotta be happy they learn at night you bastards!" jokes.
eh? (Score:2, Insightful)
I don't think a cockroach has enough theory of mind to 'desire' to learn. And in any case there's no practical difference between desire to learn and ability to learn if predicting cockroach behaviour is the outcome. Either it will learn or it wont.
With respect to other influences, I'm sure a journal like PNAS wouldn't take the research if it had fatal flaws. They're quite fussy.
Also, I don't see why a study needs to be replicated before it has any weight. Unless you think there are significant flaws
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Duh (Score:1, Redundant)
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Others are just plain morons (Score:4, Funny)
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Last week, I saw a huge butterfly try to kill itself by attempting to become entangled in the web of a much smaller spider. It was like watching someone trying to commit suicide by driving a Mack truck through a mobile home. Luckily, the spider managed to escape the flailing butterfly, but the web did not have a good day.
Hangover? (Score:3, Funny)
Change of name? (Score:3, Funny)
Almost Obvious (Score:3)
Anyone who has had to deal with cockroach buildups in an apartment or house would know that in order to prevent them from coming to your kitchen is to wipe it down really well, because once they start coming, it's damn near impossible to stop them. Once they find a hint of food in a certain location, they will continue to look for it in the same location...
Just sayin'.
Curious... (Score:5, Funny)
Sounds like some managers I know (Score:2)
The researchers also found (Score:3, Funny)
Caffeine Kills Bugs - That's Why Plants Make It (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Caffeine Kills Bugs - That's Why Plants Make It (Score:4, Interesting)
Inquiring minds want to know!
Parent
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Funny, I lived in a place once where I had to set my drink in the center of a square made from tape turned sticky-side-up just to go to the bathroom.
The little bastards learned that a stovetop burner would kill them so they started climbing up the wall & onto the ceiling above th
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That is the most horrifying thing I've ever read in my life... I am now going to stock up on RAID and maybe even a shotgun in the event they try and take over.
can they turn sentient? (Score:2, Insightful)
If there's a nuclear winter, and cockroaches (which are generally said to survive despite radiation) are left in the dark (somewhere), will the darkness help them evolve to the point of being sentient?
Maybe some experiments aka "learning during darkness" should be conducted on ISS. hmm..*wondering about that ep of Justice League when Vandal Savage was the only human left on Earth. Cockroaches evolved and became big. With the red sun (less sunlight), they appeared to be more organised and smarter. Maybe the
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Previous studies? (Score:4, Interesting)
Anybody got pointers on this previous research for humans? That could change my daily schedule...
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Cockroach racing, anyone? (Score:5, Funny)
Sanitation in the area was a disaster, there were so many cockroaches in the buildings that many students simply gave up trying to exterminate them and simply accepted them as "pets", going as far as wagering on cockroach races. I don't know if it still exists, but back in those days there was a cheap repellent stick known as Chinese Chalk that was smeared on surfaces, and while it was fresh, supposedly no cockroach would cross the boundary. Racecourses were designed with Chinese Chalk, beers were popped open, wages were placed on the floor, and the festivities began.
Years later, simply mentioning The Bronx can still make ex-alumni shudder.
Aw, what the hell, here's another good cockroach story:
One day, a friend of mine saw to his horror, three cockroaches huddling in his kitchen wall. So the guy approached nervously with a can of Raid and, involuntarily shutting his eyes, blasted 'em for about ten seconds before jumping several feet back. With morbid fascination and never taking his eyes off them, the guy slowly approached the dying, quivering roaches, still attached to the wall. He was just a couple of feet away when two of the roaches, in a final, heroic act of revenge, lunged at him. Screaming bloody murder in a high pitched tone that must've cracked a neighborhood window or two, the guy jerked violently, tripped and fell in a weird position, dislocating his shoulder.
On a happy note, my friend himself tells that story, and has a good laugh while doing so.
Explains a lot (Score:2)
Pug
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Flash wasn't even installed on the computer I'm using right now, so I spent about thirty seconds looking for a "Go Straight to Article" link before realizing there wasn't one.
If you do get to the final article, though, there's a "Tell us what you think of our new look!" link. Amusingly, there's a html/txt version, but t
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So let me see if I understand you: Science has abandoned the concept of learning because it doesn't adequately explain learning?
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Truth is, buggers don't like cold. So for the myth about them shrugging off a nuclear war... Nuclear Winter, baby.
(Obviously, only Scandinavians could survive a nuclear war!)
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Being born in Wales and having grown up in Ontario Canada I'd never seen a cockroach until at 22 I moved to Los Angeles in 1979.
I saw lots there. Boric acid in every crack and crevice seems to kill them BTW and is about as safe as you can get.
I've seen one or two of them in Toronto in old houses and restaurants, but other than that I've seen none. They're not real