Anti-Bacterial Soap No Better Than Plain Soap

eldavojohn writes to advise us to stop buying antibacterial soap, as it's no more effective than the regular stuff. And, using it introduces a risk of mutation of bacteria. From the article: "The team looked at 27 studies conducted between 1980 and 2006, and found that soaps containing triclosan within the range of concentrations commonly used in the community setting (0.1 to 0.45 percent wt./vol.) were no more effective than plain soaps. Triclosan is used in higher concentrations in hospitals and other clinical settings, and may be more effective at reducing illness and bacteria. Triclosan works by targeting a biochemical pathway in the bacteria that allows the bacteria to keep its cell wall intact. Because of the way triclosan kills the bacteria, mutations can happen at the targeted site... a mutation could mean that the triclosan can no longer get to the target site to kill the bacteria because the bacteria and the pathway have changed form."

new subject line..

[middlemen]

Anti-Bacterial Soap Sells Better than Plain Soap

Hurray for marketing!!!

The other bad thing about antibacterial soaps..

[the_rajah]

is that they tend to dry and irritate the skin more than plain old soap. This makes the skin actually more vulnerable to pathogens. I, too, have been advising folks to just use plain old soap and water and avoid antibacterial soaps. My grandmother used to make her own lye and lard soap. Maybe not such a bad idea. Being a germophobe isn't necessarily a good idea.

Re:The war on bacteria

[blazer1024]

Allow your immune system to fight off bacteria like it's supposed to, instead of giving it a nearly sterile environment to grow weak in.

It's like a great boxer who decides to retire because he feels it's too dangerous. He then spends the next 10 years watching television. Then he realizes he needs some money, so he decides to have a comeback fight. Well, he hasn't been training in 10 years. Now he's fat and slow and has no stamina. So he gets in the ring and loses.

Re:Why use soap?

[Billosaur]

It's always been my contention that attempting to sterilize the environment is what's going to get us killed off eventually. Call it "War of the Worlds" Syndrome -- eventually we wipe out most bacterial life, with the possible exception of those most beneficial to us, which have been genetically altered. We move out into the universe to claim our rightful place and are felled by some bacteria from another planet that we cannot acquire an immunity to since our immune systems are so weak from not having to fight off bacteria/viruses.

The fact is our immune systems have to be exposed to these things in order to give them a chance to build up resistance/immunity. I've actually never thought of a cold as a bad thing, if it increase the armament that my immune system has available to fight disease. I used to be pretty immune to colds, though over the years stress and lack of rest have compromised my ability to fight things off like I used to.

The other scary part of the equation is, if this is killing off 99.9% of bacteria, what about that last .1%? Aren't we really creating super bacteria this way?

Re:Think of the germphobes!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, it's a lot easier to deal with the handicapped and the crazies by simply stoning them to death or chucking them into the jungle or something, rather than help them grow into contributing members of society. I wonder why more countries don't adopt this format of advanced mental health program.

Re:Physics versus Chemistry versus Biology

[kripkenstein]

Good summary. Note, however, that soap doesn't even need to kill germs - soap along with the mechanical action of hand washing is meant to carry germs away with the soap down the drain. This is something that would be extremely difficult to evolve a protection against, and therefore is a very useful strategy.

triclosan

[circletimessquare]

i think i remember reading somewhere that chemical derivatives of triclosan are endocrine mimics. which means they mess with things like amphibian reproduction (amphibians are on the decline around the world). triclosan is found in 60 percent of American stream and rivers now

and you can even find triclosan in breast milk now too: it gets in our food via fertilizer. hey, when you flush it down the drain, it has to go somewhere. sometimes it comes back to you

now normally, a slight level of this chemical or that chemical is no big deal. for example, chloroform and dioxin are chemical byproducts of triclosan reacting with chlorinated water. but that doesn't matter, as the levels of those scary sounding chemicals are the same as normal background readings, meaning hysterically mentioning them has no real scientific basis for alarm (but is effective propaganda for the scientifically uninitiated)

but endocrine mimics are different, as the slightest of levels really can have an effect on biological processes. but i guess that's ok, because between all of the birth control, propecia, viagra, and xanax we're also pissing and flushing into our waterways, yes, our animals and children will all be hermaphrodites, but they will have a full head of hair, a hard on, and be strangely blissful about it all

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa029&arti cleID=024FEAE8-E7F2-99DF-323D8E02C4E48BF6&pageNumb er=1&catID=9 [sciam.com]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triclosan [wikipedia.org]

Hype to counter other hype

[Kohath]

This is some nice anti-anti-bacterial soap hype.

No, it's not necessary or very useful to use anti-bacterial soap. No, it won't create super-bacteria that come and kill us all.

I don't use it because I'm allergic to the anti-bacterial ingredient. I'm not sure why we need misleading hype for every opinion on either side of everything though.

Re:Physics versus Chemistry versus Biology

[Anonymous Coward]

You know, that was a pretty good post until you ended it with 'STFU'. Just because someone isn't 100% accurate doesn't mean they aren't making a worthy contribution to a story. The post you were complaining about was still informative and illustrated the primary types of attacks against bacteria. Unless you're Ken Jennings it isn't realistic to expect everyone who makes an informative post that's more than a few sentences to be 100% factually accurate.

Re:From a handwashing pro...

[Bombula]

Get some help for your OCD. Seriously. Living germ-free is dangerous - it compromises your immune system, often with nasty long-run consequences. If you've got kids, for goodness' sake don't impose your OCD on them. Ultra-sterile environments in developmental years are what cause asthma and other immunological disorders. We are expressly designed to function in conjunction with microbial ecosystems - both inside our bodies and outside.

Marketing strikes again

[sjames]

Once more,marketing gives us a product that cost's more, does no good, and may ultimately harm millions all for the sake of the almighty buck.

Once again, they face no sanctions for blatantly lying to the public for years.

Re:Why use soap?

[Anonymous Coward]

Killing all bacteria is utterly impossible. It's a bacteria world and we and all other multicelled organisms are just scum floating on a thin layer of the planet to them. There are more bacteria cells in "your" body than there are your cells. Up to ten percent of your body weight is bacteria. Bacteria live from the tops of the highest mountains and float in the upper atmosphere to miles and miles underground -- we have no idea how deep. They live under miles of glacier in Antarctica and in boiling hot water. Humans and every other multicelled life form will be long dead and bacteria will go on and on and on. You may have a fantasy that humans will "move out into the universe to claim our rightful place" instead of going extinct like every other species does, but when the sun finally goes red giant, bacteria deep inside rocks will probably be tossed out and begin a journey across the galaxy. Don't kid yourself that humans are the pinnacle of evolution, bacteria always were and always will be.

Re:But

[BigDogCH]

Yes, but by the same theory of evolution shouldn't the bacteria that are more resistant to dessication be passing on more genes?

Whenever I hear about human products and chemicals killing 99.99% of something, I wonder if we are truely doing ourselves a favor?

I think I've Heard This Before...

[smitth1276]

...something like 27 different times.

Re:But

[2.7182]

Washing with soap basically washes off the dirt and oils, which hold the germs, down the drain. Are you afraid you'll develop germs that stick to you hands and soap won't get them off ?

Re:new subject line..

[h4ter]

Last time I went to buy hand soap for home, of the two dozen different brands and sub-brand products on the shelf, only TWO were not antibacterial.

Even if I want to be a good buy and not use antibacterial soap, I can't.

I'm sorry, please enlighten me. If there were two non-antibacterial soaps available, how come you can't use them?

THIS is WRONG - it is WORSE

[WillAffleckUW]

Sorry, but if you had actually read the scientific papers, you would have noticed that it says that anti-bacterial soaps are not just not better, but in fact are worse for you than a good basic soap.

Why? Because, as we in the medical research community like to point out, and our friends in the biochemistry community as well, anti-bacterial soaps breed antibiotic-resistant strains of many diseases.

STOP. Do not use or buy anti-bacterial soaps. Do not use or buy anti-bacterial sprays - use a standard detergent or a common vinegar solution.

By using these soaps you breed strains of diseases that are difficult to fight.

How do you think we got drug-resistant staph infections in the first place? People overusing drugs when they shouldn't have.

Re:Why use soap?

[choongiri]

I used to be pretty immune to colds

No, you didn't.

The common cold is a virus, and every one is different. It's exceedingly rare to develop immunity to a virus by any method other than infection with that exact virus, or immunization. It's possible that your immune system used to do a better job of fighting the virus off before you developed noticeable symptoms, but you certainly weren't immune.

Re:How to breed tough germs

[the_humeister]

Another huge issue? Farmers feeding their livestock anti-bacterial drugs to make them grow bigger. WTF??? And this is fully endorsed by veterinarians. So our meat supply is also breeding anti-biotic resistant bacteria. Our society is so stupid with regards to this dilemma...

Re:THIS is WRONG - it is WORSE

[Xtravar]

If the lye in soap kills organisms anyway, how much damage is the anti-bacterial element really doing? Isn't it just redundant, since if you use soap the bacteria will die anyway?

Re:Unfortunately

[morari]

I make mine from the liposuction leftovers...

Re:THIS is WRONG - it is WORSE

[Xtravar]

Sorry, if you knew anything about biochemistry or medicine, I might waste time arguing with you, but the science is clear.

You just wasted your time being prick on the internet for absolutely no benefit to anyone, so why not spend a few more moments to enlighten the ignorant masses?