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Space Power

Public Discussion Opened on Space Solar Power 195

eldavojohn writes "The National Security Space Office (NSSO), an office of the DoD, has taken a novel approach to a study they are doing on space based solar power. They've opened a public forum for it and are interested in anyone and everyone's expertise, experience and ideas on the best means to harvest energy in space. I suppose this is similar to the DoD's $1 million for an energy pack just without the award. Still, if you want to have an influence on the US's plans in space, this would be an easy armchair place to start. Space.com also has more on the details."
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Public Discussion Opened on Space Solar Power

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  • by Baldrson ( 78598 ) * on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @03:40PM (#19987373) Homepage Journal
    Interestingly it was Gerard O'Neill who argued in the 1970's for solar power satellites constructed from lunar material and, as part of that argument predicted the industrialization of China would lead to increased CO2 emissions from coal burning that would mandate radical restructuring of global energy technology. It may be too late now to pursue nonterrestrial material SPS since the baby boomer generation, raised and educated to pioneer space from childhood, was denied that opportunity by --- well that is the question of the millennium if not the epoch isn't it? There are almost as many answers to that question as there are religions.

    The proximate cause was that despite there being an obvious direction in place subsequent to the space race (remember the Apollo program?) that could have been followed through to space industrialization -- the launch service industry did not enjoy the same protection from government competition that the satellite industry enjoyed [presageinc.com]:

    * (c) Private enterprise; access; competition

    In order to facilitate this development and to provide for the widest possible participation by private enterprise, United States participation in the global system shall be in the form of a private corporation, subject to appropriate governmental regulation. It is the intent of Congress that all authorized users shall have nondiscriminatory access to the system; that maximum competition be maintained in the provision of equipment and services utilized by the system; that the corporation created under this chapter be so organized and operated as to maintain and strengthen competition in the provision of communications services to the public; and that the activities of the corporation created under this chapter and of the persons or companies participating in the ownership of the corporation shall be consistent with the Federal antitrust laws.

    It wasn't until 1990, when a coalition of grassroots groups across the country lobbied hard for 3 years [geocities.com], that similar legislation got passed for launch services.

    The fact that Malthusian paradigm didn't precisely follow the Club of Rome's "Limits to Growth" model [majorityrights.com] doesn't change the reality of the Malthusian paradigm given a fundamentally limited biosphere undergoing its largest extinction event in 60 million years. The Club of Rome merely added academic fashion to the urgency of the Malthusian situation still facing the biosphere. The 1970s was the right time to start the drive for space industrialization based on a private launch service industry. It didn't happen, the pioneering culture that founded the US is being replaced by government policy with less pioneering cultures and now we're all facing some increasingly obvious difficulties -- not just pioneer American stock -- and not just humans.

    The cost of getting silicon into space from the lunar surface would be orders of magnitude less than launching from earth due not only to the much shallower gravity well but also due to the absence of atmosphere.

    No beanstalk needed.

    At worst a Dyneema Rotovator [slashdot.org] might be needed but probably not even that.

    First, the bulk of the materials are manufactured in space from lunar raw material transported to orbital facilities so you don't need to land those facilities on the lunar surface, and you don't have to worry about g-loading the raw materials you are sending to the orbital facilities.

    Second, you don't manufacture everything in space -- only bulky materials like solar cells, reflectors, structural members and perhaps klystrons. Only residual materials (raw and manufactured) are of terrestria

  • Re:Wrong priorities? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Brandon30X ( 34344 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @03:46PM (#19987449)
    How about this?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkVlkSnoGNM [youtube.com]

    -Brandon
  • by ItsLenny ( 1132387 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @03:54PM (#19987561) Homepage
    agreed... I have to say the only reason the US is over seas is because of energy...

    if the rest of the world wants to shut us up and keep them out of their hair they should just give us plans for an easy never ending supply of renewable energy.
  • Fascinating subject (Score:5, Interesting)

    by RyanFenton ( 230700 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @03:55PM (#19987595)
    I've been on-and-off interested in this subject for years now - the prospect of being able to gather solar energy more directly, even with horribly inneficient technique, would be a complete transformation in terms of our ability to gather energy for human use.

    Three basic problematic areas:

    1. Return Delivery for energy. A beam would be the most obvious approach, as no conventional matter would be easilly sustained without something like a space elevator bringing enriched material up and down constantly. An exception would be antimatter, though that would be horribly dangerous on a scale that would make any concentrated beam mishap look like nothing.

    2. Energy effects on the earth. Increased energy use, in any form, is going to have various effects on our ecosystem. We'll have to devote a percentage of our global energy use to offset this in some way, hopefully without a tragedy of the commons effect leftover.

    3. Upkeep: Materials break down when they transfer the kinds of energy under consideration here. This won't just be a simple solar-panel install job in space. The materials involved will have to be self-repairing in some way if they're going to get closer and closer to the sun. Perhaps they'll function by 'flowing' with the solar winds, then reforming at the front. This promises to be a fascinating task for engineers and scientists looking to harvest such enormous resources safely and (relatively) efficiently.

    Every aspect of this subject bristles with the various concerns of humanity - it'll be interesting to say the least what this group can go over.

    Ryan Fenton
  • Impossible? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by MobyDisk ( 75490 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @03:59PM (#19987643) Homepage
    I'm reading the public forum, and someone ran the math and said that it would take 10,000 years to build a solar array [wordpress.com] large enough to replace our current energy use. The limiting factor is how hard it is to move something that large and heaving into orbit.

    If these figures are accurate, then this is a pointless endeavor.
  • by ArsonSmith ( 13997 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @04:29PM (#19987979) Journal
    I think one way to do this would be to use a beam but instead of one giant solar collecting satellite dumping a huge laser beam to a spceific spot and hope it doesn't miss, why not have several smaller satellites each generating only enough power to maybe give you or something a bad sunburn. Then focus all of them to a single boiler or collector of some kind.

    This would help to solve the scare of a huge beam missing and the worry of maintaining equipment that focuses excessive amounts of power through one part in space.
  • Microwave Transfer? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by dredson ( 620914 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @04:48PM (#19988227)
    The article links to an article on wikipedia that suggests using microwaves to transfer the energy from space to earth. Also using a space elevator to get the solar panels into space.

    However, once there is a space elevator, there is no need for using dangerous microwaves, when you already have a direct wire going from earth to space. Just send the electricity down the wire like any terrestrial power line.

  • Re:Wrong priorities? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Penguinisto ( 415985 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @06:25PM (#19989307) Journal

    - the radiation spreading over an area instead of hitting just the receiver

    Place the receivers in, oh... North Dakota; RF spread control can already be feasibly done enough to keep spill-over to a dead-minimum (and the receivers should be large enough to catch that anyway). That, and IMHO, anybody who does air travel is likely already getting hammered with almost as much RF/cm2 thundering out of the ground and local ATC dishes than they'd likely get by standing betwixt power satellite and receiver panel... (that is, the panel is likely going to be rather big). Frequency diffs may affect this assertion, but not by much.

    - atmosphere adding to the above effect

    About 10-15 miles of it, yes. After that, it's gravy (vacuum itself doesn't diffuse for practical purposes, and you'd perhaps get residual interference from from Van Allen Belt and other solar/Earth magnetic concerns, save for the occasional (and rare!) solar CME's directed straight at Earth).

    - interference with lower orbit objects. not a major problem for the system but may be for the object.

    True. OTOH, we already set aside aerospace 'corridors' for atmospheric travel... why not set up similar "no entry" and "terminal control" areas for powersats?

    btw, recent record of 42.8% efficiency of solar cells combined with this would be about 35%.

    Which ain't bad at all, even when compared to the energy conversion efficiency in oil- or coal-generated steam turbines (and w/ few to no moving parts on the reception side of the house, maintenance would be pretty easy and cheap).

    /P

  • by r_jensen11 ( 598210 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @06:33PM (#19989365)
    You make it sound like the space programs from the 60's was for pioneering cultures are all different from today. They're not. The space program was a political maneuver in direct response to the Soviet "threat." Its goal wasn't for the sake of science, it was for the sake of pride and a sense of protection from enemy threats. The closest things we have now are North Korea secretly building nukes, Iran doing the same, China destroying all of our satellites, and right-wing religious fundamentalists going from blowing up abortion clinics to blowing up the rest of the United States if/when the GOP loses the next presidential election.
  • by Original Replica ( 908688 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @07:48PM (#19990013) Journal
    increased CO2 emissions from coal burning that would mandate radical restructuring of global energy technology

    As we are all aware, the whole global warming problem presented by rising levels of CO2 is that more energy is trapped here on Earth. So how is trapping more energy from the sun and sending more energy to Earth going to help the problem? Maybe the solar collector will be directly between the Sun and Earth, thus removing as much incoming solar energy as it is beaming down to our power station. But which countries are going to volunteer to give up much of their sunlight? Perhaps thousands of little collectors evenly distributed in the Earth bound Sunshine would solve the politics by giving an even reduction of sunlight globally, but if we can do that, why are we so worried about CO2 levels, just reflect the nessecary amount of incoming solar energy to counteract our increased atmospheric insulation. Don't even bother with the energy collection, we have an excess of Earth bound energy as it is.
  • Re:silly idea (Score:3, Interesting)

    by delt0r ( 999393 ) on Thursday July 26, 2007 @06:25AM (#19994355)
    Well both clean and safe is somewhat debatable. If we don't reprocess the fuel we get lots of waste and theres a fuel shortage (long term). If we do reprocess the fuel we get less waste and *heaps* more fuel but the waste is much harder to deal with and there are proliferation problems.

    Critical reactors just don't do it for me. They are hard to turn off. But sub critical reactors sound like the ticket. Need to do some R&D to get the accelerators up to spec. But then they can even burn nuclear waste. You can use Th instead of U as a fuel, and cut the power and the thing turns off like a light bulb. Off really is off. There waste is safe after a century or so rather than 1,000's of years.

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